8. You Gotta YOLO Every Now and Then

Olivia and Victor are getting ready to get married. Zach grapples with a dream about his drinking habits, but will…...

Olivia and Victor are getting ready to get married. Zach grapples with a dream about his drinking habits, but will probably still get pretty lit at the wedding. Victor assures him that this may or may not be a good idea, but relaxing is A-OK. 

0:00 Call to Action

54:00 Intro

18:20 Zach's dream

About Dream Bible:

Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams.  Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.


Dream Bible entries used in this episode:

Rats: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=rats

Marijuana: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Marijuana

Drugs: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=drugs

Crack: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=crack

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejungandtherestlesspod/

Check out our website for episode transcripts: https://thejungandtherestlesspodcast.com/

Episode Transcript

8. You Gotta YOLO Every Now and Then

[00:00:00] Zach: Hey, sweet dreamers. It's your boy Zach from The Jung and the Restless. I just wanted to let you know that as a new podcast, we're still in that phase where Apple Podcast reviews have a, a weirdly disproportionately high impact on our success. So it would really mean the world to us. If you would, you know, give us five stars over there and if you leave a dream in the review, we'll give you a shout out and take a stab at interpreting it on the show.

I mean, even if you hate us, we'll read your hate mail on air if you leave it in the body of a five star review, and we'll still love you, man. Anyway, on with the show, it is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream.

[00:00:54] Olivia: Welcome to The Jung and the Restless. I'm Olivia. 

[00:00:57] Victor: I'm Victor.

[00:00:59] Zach: And I'm Zach. And this is the podcast where I'm not drunk. You're drunk.

[00:01:23] Olivia: What I was just laughing at before we started recording was that I was scrolling through my dream journal and I found a short entry that I have zero recollection of, like I do not remember the dream. I do not remember writing. . Um, and it just says, we got married. It was a whirlwind. I don't remember the ceremony, only being at a hotel, watching guests leave the hotel and fashion people show up to have their turn.

Victor had a mom who was Indian and disappointed. . 

[00:01:52] Victor: Hmm. 

[00:01:52] Zach: Interesting. That, and that's how, that's, that's very coherent usually. Especially for something you don't remember. Yeah. I 

[00:02:00] Olivia: literally have no memory of that, so. Hmm. 

[00:02:03] Zach: Yeah. And usually your, your, your dream memos are like, they're 

[00:02:09] Olivia: too bad to read often. Yeah.

Yeah. I, I have decided to start, um, editing them a little bit so that I can read them more directly for this podcast. I think that'll be nice for you, the listeners. 

[00:02:23] Zach: Have you been having a lot of wedding dreams in this, you know Mm. You're, it's like a week out, week and a half. Week and a 

[00:02:32] Olivia: half. Mm-hmm.

something like that. I'm gonna say probably. Uh, but, um, if I've learned anything from this podcast, it's, um, that a wedding dream is not necessarily about a wedding or it, it, a wedding, a dream that's about a wedding does not necessarily feature a 

[00:02:49] Zach: wedding and vice versa, right? Yes. Yeah. 

[00:02:53] Victor: Yeah. 

[00:02:53] Olivia: Like nothing means anything.

[00:02:55] Zach: That's because that one Don, you just read where Victor's mom was Indian, uh, took what took place at a wedding. But that doesn't mean it was about that you could, you could have just been picturing a wedding because you've been thinking about it nonstop. Yeah, 

[00:03:07] Olivia: that's true. Um, no, lately I've been having dog dreams.

Um, But not the regular. My dogs are in trouble. Dreams. I've been having dreams about other dogs 

[00:03:21] Zach: lately. Dogs, you know, or just rando, doggos, rando 

[00:03:24] Olivia: doggos. Yeah. I did have a dream about the other night. I had a dream about, um, rats eating the tip of my dog's ear off. And then I, I had a dream immediately after that of me looking up rats in the dream Bible.

[00:03:42] Zach: Oh, do you remember what it meant? In the Dream Bible? So, 

[00:03:46] Olivia: in the Dream Bible, in my dream, the dream, dream Bible? Yeah. In the Dream, dream Bible. It had like a, see, um, it said something else. It, it like sent me to a different entry. I, I can't remember exactly what it was. It was like rasmus or something. I don't, I don't know it.

But it was like, um, instead of rats, it was like sea rasmus and it was like, this is like the god of death and decay. 

[00:04:13] Zach: I wonder what rats mean in the real world Dream Bible. The real dream Bible, not the fantasy one. Rats 

[00:04:20] Victor: to dream of a rat represents underhanded behavior. People or situations. Rats reflect, lying, cheating, stealing, or backstabbing other people.

You may be hiding something from others or having a problem trusting someone. Hmm. Was it dead or did it have a color? It was a 

[00:04:39] Olivia: hoard of rats. It was like, it was like 50 rats, like taking Casper down and then they bit his ear off. I was very upset, especially because it's his cute ear. It's the one that Flippy floppies.

[00:04:51] Zach: But I was just gonna ask Victor if you, have you been having any like stress dreams leading up to the wedding or is that a thing for you? Um, 

[00:05:00] Victor: no dreams, stress dreams? No. No. I'm not recalling any dreams, but, uh, in, in without a dream, I can offer you. Uh, I'm on the Dream Bible website and it's giving me an ad for a Donald Trump quarter.

Oh. So I don't know. That's it. How many cents 

[00:05:20] Zach: is that worth? Uh, , 

[00:05:21] Victor: they're selling it. $24 . Yeah. They're selling it for $24 and 73 cents. . That's, that's a 

[00:05:28] Zach: lot of, but I don't, it's a lot of quarters. Uh, notice 

[00:05:30] Olivia: that this company is called Money Metals, not metal monies. Mm. Mm-hmm. because you can't actually buy anything with the Donald Trump 

[00:05:37] Victor: quarter.

Yeah. I don't know if these are real coins or 

[00:05:39] Olivia: just, I think they're just novelty coins, right. That are very expensive. Yeah. 

[00:05:46] Victor: There's a gold one for $600. Damn. It's probably not real gold though. 

[00:05:50] Zach: Can you imagine spending $600 on a quarter and then like accidentally putting it in a washing machine? 

[00:05:55] Victor: Yeah. That 

[00:05:56] Olivia: one's like cost more than.

Either of our wedding rings. 

[00:06:00] Victor: Right. Can you imagine just needing your laundry done that bad, that you use your $600 

[00:06:05] Zach: quarter ? Yeah. Yeah. I would go to 7-Eleven and get cash back, but I spent all my money on this quarter . But yeah. Do you, do you get stress streams? Is that, uh, I, well you guys, you made it sound like these, uh, this isn't a particularly like stressful time.

I always, whenever somebody has an imminent wedding, I assume that it's like chaos. But it's 

[00:06:29] Victor: been, it's been stressful. Olivia's been doing most of it, um, because I. Am garbage. No, uh, , I've, I've been doing, I've been doing things here and there, but Olivia's taken on most of the organizing. And So you've had more wedding stress than I have.


[00:06:47] Olivia: Uh, it it's been pretty manageable. Today was kind of a 

[00:06:50] Zach: fiasco, but Yeah, you almost couldn't record, you don't have to talk about that, but it was so, it wasn't 

[00:06:57] Olivia: anything serious. It was just like, ugh. 

[00:07:02] Zach: It was such a hairpin turn where like the texts were like a minute apart. You're like, crisis, can't record, scratch that.

We're good. 

[00:07:11] Victor: It's, it's not worth. It was a hairpin turn. It's not worth getting into details, but today was a bullshit day from start to finish. Every e every event, every unique event was bullshit for from when we woke up to when we sat before. You now . Uh, 

[00:07:30] Zach: well, I'll try not to. 

[00:07:31] Victor: Um, so what do you got first?

Yeah. Do you have any bad news? What's going on with you, Zach? You're like, you know who guys? I don't think I'm feeling this podcast anymore. Yeah. I just, I don't think we should keep doing 

[00:07:41] Zach: this. Uh, no. I'm excited. I'm excited to, I've been thinking about Seattle a lot. Uh, I'm kind of missing it, so I'm excited to be up there in, in, uh, in a little bit.


[00:07:52] Olivia: I'm excited to see you. It's gonna be really fun to have all of our friends together. And I'm like, I was just telling my friend earlier, I'm like, just as excited for like, the pre-wedding events as I am for the wedding. It's gonna be a lot of 

[00:08:06] Zach: fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love a wedding. I don't, I don't know.

Have you ever met, met somebody who'd like, I don't know. I feel like if you don't like a wedding, you're like a Ebenezer Scrooge. It's, Hmm. It's like, it's just a good time. Yeah. 

[00:08:19] Olivia: No, that is true. I do, I do feel like I've met some people who are like, oh, I hate weddings. I'm like, really? Yeah. Even people, it's a, it's like a free good time with free drinks and free food and like 

[00:08:32] Zach: dancing.

It's fine. Love is in the, yeah. I don't, I don't even dance, but I, I like standing there with a paper plate, eating cake. Yeah. Washing people have fun. Absolutely. Yeah. Chit the chat, you know, chit the chat. Shoot the chit. Yeah. . Uh, yeah. Even like, I've met some like hardcore, like libertarian kind of people that don't believe in like the institution of marriage.

Right. And I'm like, we can't deny that a wedding's fun. 

[00:08:57] Olivia: Weddings are fun. You don't have to support the institution of marriage. I thought 

[00:09:01] Victor: libertarians were all about contracts. Isn't a wedding just a, just a contract. It really is 

[00:09:06] Zach: not, not with the government. Uh, but you'd think that the, they would, they would enjoy the tax break.

There you go. . But yeah, I think I just, uh, I don't know what is, I, I, I, I love the constant sunshine, but lately I've just been like, I kind of miss, see, I can't miss Seattle. And I'm also just, I think I'm, I've only been here like nine months and I'm already, I'm such an introvert. I'm already exhausted with the, the hustle culture, like the constant networking and.

Yeah. And socializing. And I'm just ready to like, have accomplished my dreams so that I can enter my JD Solinger phase and move back to Washington into a like a Are you gonna come back here? I mean, I'm talking like in a couple decades when I'm No like a, an old curmudgeon and ready to move into a cabin 

[00:09:53] Victor: in the woods.

Yeah. He's not gonna hang out with us. He's just gonna be in his cabin chopping wood. No, 

[00:09:57] Zach: I'll hang out with you guys. You 

[00:09:59] Olivia: can just rent out our, our apartment here. Be our be our backyard buddy. . What part of the city are you in? We're not in Seattle property. 

[00:10:07] Zach: Give her a address on the podcast. . What? What? So like sub neighborhood.

[00:10:13] Olivia: We are in Briar. I live 10 minutes away from 

[00:10:17] Victor: Oh. Just small enough town that we basically gave you our address. 

[00:10:21] Zach: We can bleep, we can bleep all that. Including . That's, we've been so careful about avoiding Fuck 

[00:10:27] Olivia: yeah. Sorry, . I just, I honestly don't really care, but uh, But yeah, no. Or like just north, about 20 minutes north of 

[00:10:37] Zach: Seattle.

Gotcha. Yeah, I don't know if I would want to live like in Seattle. I, I, I don't know. I just, I, I like, I miss the terrain and not so much the weather, but the green and the, the culture, the people now they're all introverts too. And, 

[00:10:55] Olivia: um, you, you moved to Seattle at the worst time, like you did the fall before.

Covid is like, you probably met a, a couple of people and then like nobody was meeting anybody, 

[00:11:07] Zach: right? Yeah. Yeah. And, and I was, you know, just starting a, a career. Mm-hmm. . So it's hard to, that's what I'm talking about my, you know, or fantasizing about retiring there cuz it's like, I feel like it's a great place to be once you're good with your life, once you like have things put together, it's a hard place to put stuff together if you don't already have your shit together.

Yeah. Yeah. It can 

[00:11:30] Olivia: be, I feel like. Yeah. It just depends on what you're doing. You know, so much work is remote these days. It's 

[00:11:36] Zach: like, man, yeah. Speaking of work, what are you, what, what have you been up to? And I don't know if this is part of the podcast right now, but I, I have been honestly meaning to ask you that question cuz we haven't, like I am so unemployed right now,

Oh, okay. Is that why you're handling most of the wedding shit, ? Yeah, 

[00:11:54] Victor: absolutely. That's the, 

[00:11:56] Zach: that's the other part. Victor's busy work and earning bread. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:12:01] Olivia: I had that one, like, that one job that I interviewed for and they. They were like checking my references and stuff and they were like, okay, we're gonna hire you in approximately two months,

And I'm like, was that two months ago? Okay. Oh, it was just about two months ago. Yeah. So like, whatever, you know, um, we, we'll see. But also now it's like two weeks, less than two weeks till the wedding. I'm not gonna like, I'm not gonna be like responding to job stuff on our honeymoon or anything, so it's like I might as well wait until 

[00:12:33] Zach: after you're talking about the one that I also applied to.

Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , 

[00:12:38] Victor: I think we're pretty much still like you made a conscious decision to. Hold off on trying to find a new job until we were past the wedding, cuz it really didn't make sense to like be picking up a job a few weeks out from when we were getting married and having to take our honeymoon and everything.

So, yeah. And you had that job that was gonna call you back right about it. The perfect time for you to get a new job. Yeah. And so I you've been more stressed about it lately cuz you're starting to feel Yeah. That you haven't worked for a while, but we're like right on track for the plan that we made. And you're right.

When we get back, if you still haven't heard from 'em, that's the time to give him a call, just like we talked about, right? Yeah, you are right. Yeah. 

[00:13:15] Olivia: Yeah. I've, I've been, it's been like coming at me in kind of an antsy way lately, but, um, yeah, you're right. We're gonna just to like, that's exactly what we said.

[00:13:25] Zach: Exactly. Yeah. What's, what's coming for you? Just the stagnation of not working. . 

[00:13:30] Olivia: Yeah. And like, uh, just the uncertainty of what is, because like the wedding and everything up to that is like, um, I don't know, that's like kind of a, feels like a marker, you know? Like where it's like, okay, after the wedding is a different period of time, and so like not Yeah.

Not knowing what that's gonna look like. Exactly. 

[00:13:52] Zach: Yeah. I mean, I've been job hunting nonstop and, uh, I sort of pumped the brakes recently and I'm just traveling for the wedding. I'm not, I'm not even getting married , but, you know, like a month ago when I first got the plane tickets, I was like, all right, if I get an interview I'll just tell 'em these dates, but like a week out, I'm like, I'll just pick this up when I get back.

Right. Yeah, yeah, 

[00:14:15] Olivia: yeah. Cuz you, I guess it's like, you don't wanna be like worrying about getting, responding to an email or like ca making sure that you're on top of that when you're. In the middle of 

[00:14:26] Zach: Yeah. A big thing. I also don't wanna land an interview like the day before I fly and Right. Be like, yeah, I can start later.

Yeah. Right. , I'm so excited. See you in a week. Yeah. . . Well I guess, I guess you usually give a place like two weeks if you 


[00:14:43] Olivia: I also do feel like a wedding is like a really reasonable thing. Like I'm flying out for a wedding is not like any job that's like, what the fuck? You wouldn't put that down and start tomorrow is like you don't wanna work there.

probably not 

[00:14:56] Zach: a good job. , you have friends doing something that they only do once in a lifetime. Yeah. Unacceptable. I mean, ideally once in a lifetime, 

[00:15:05] Olivia: you have non-refundable plane tickets. Fuck you 

[00:15:10] Victor: doing something your friends only do on average two to three times in a lifetime. 

[00:15:17] Zach: Um, should be 

[00:15:18] Victor: I what? I can't reem, uh, nevermind.

I, I had like a flash of like some statistic that I heard and then I realized I can't remember it. It was something about like, yeah, it's not worth getting it too. Cut this out about divorce . It was something ab I, I, I thought there was some relationship with like living together first being connected to how, like the, to get a divorce.

Oh. But then I couldn't remember which way it, it flipped whether it was beneficial or if it hurt you. 

[00:15:48] Olivia: I think it. I think I remember that. 

[00:15:50] Zach: Think it was beneficial. Beneficial. 

[00:15:53] Victor: I think I, I was gonna say that. And then I, I reremember, I guess what I remembered is I think it hurts you. Oh, I think it hurts the odds, but I think what that is is that like sometimes people will move in together and then they may not be happy, but they're like, well, we live together, like we may as well like try and make this work.

And then they get married and then it falls apart down the 

[00:16:14] Zach: road. Which sounds silly, but I, I, I could see that, I could see how that happens. 

[00:16:20] Victor: A lot of bad relationships are people just constantly doubling down, constant, some cost fallacy of like, well, I put so much time mm-hmm. and energy into this, that I just have to keep grinding away at this bad relationship.


[00:16:34] Zach: yeah, I feel like I could have come close to that with the last person I lived with, the M word was thrown around, but. 

[00:16:42] Victor: Yeah. And then usually that works out great for people. They get married and all their problems just vanish, , so, 

[00:16:49] Zach: and if it doesn't, you just have a kid. Right? Yes. And 

[00:16:52] Victor: that guaranteed solves every problem.

Yeah, usually. Most cases. Most cases. 

[00:16:59] Olivia: Yeah. I'd be willing to bet. Like 60% . Yeah. Little asterisks. 

[00:17:03] Zach: Because if you're having problems with each other, the only way to fix it is. Get a new person involved that you care infinitely more about mm-hmm. . 

[00:17:11] Victor: And we can all agree that if that doesn't solve it, it's the kid's fault.

Right? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:17:17] Zach: That's what my parents 

[00:17:17] Olivia: told me as a, as a child of divorce, , I can tell you it was absolutely my fault, . It's true. 

[00:17:23] Victor: That's true. I've heard the story and it was definitely her . Where

[00:17:46] Olivia: Zach, do you have a dream that you wanted to do today? 

[00:17:49] Zach: Yeah. Well I feel like I should cuz we prod. I talked, I, I teased it last time. Mm-hmm. on the last episode. I brought it up. It was like hesitant to talk about it. Mm-hmm. , but I had some time to think about it, uh, and then forget what I was gonna say about it.

So let's see what happens. , , let's get into it. Yeah. Yeah. The important part is that I remember the dream. Always a good place to start . 

[00:18:12] Olivia: Um, always a good place to stop 

[00:18:15] Zach: inside. Joke . Um, okay. So yeah, I had a dream that I was back in college, living in the dorms, uh, which is pretty common, uh, a pretty common dream for me.

Um, but it's always, it's always that thing of where it's like, it doesn't look like the dorm that I lived in, but it's the same dorm every time I have this dream. It's like a very Mm, mm-hmm. , like some small room I must have seen at some point in my life. But anyway, I was there and I was, uh, rolling a joint and I don't smoke weed anymore, and I haven't in many years.

I did in college. I, I, I decided to sprinkle in some P C P. End of the joint. I had all this, it was like shake weed, you know, like the shit at the bottom of the bag. And then for some reason I also had pcp and I was like, it seems like a good time to give this a try . I felt like it was like the end of the semester or something.

[00:19:05] Victor: God, I hope PCP is in the dream Bible. 

[00:19:07] Zach: Damn. I don't even know if you, I don't even know how one does pcp. I guess I subconsciously thought you smoked it, but 

[00:19:14] Olivia: I think that I've heard that I've heard of weed laced with PCP before. Okay. And so I think, I think you can 

[00:19:20] Zach: smoke it. Maybe I have too. And that's where my, where I got this idea, but, uh, it's a bad idea.

[00:19:25] Olivia: But, you know, . 

[00:19:27] Zach: Yeah. Um, 

[00:19:28] Victor: what if that was real and all this is a dream. . 

[00:19:33] Zach: Oh shit. I'm still in college. . Um, and then I can't remember if I did any in the dorm or not, but I, I think maybe I took like one hit or something and I was like, this is kind of fun. I'm being responsible. And then I put it into my. I like opened my vape that I'm holding here in my hand.

Mm-hmm. You know, it's just one of these like, disposable ones that you get at, you know, whatever vape shop. But in the dream it opened up and I put the joint inside of it. It's like a little, like a dub tube. Yeah. Like a dub tube . And I put it in my pocket and I forgot about it. And then the dreams sort of transitioned into this other one, uh, where I was, it was like years later after college, and I was in a successful band, uh, playing guitar and, uh, or this, this se the sequence in the dream was like a music video.

We were just going to practice, but it was presented like a music video where like all the dudes in this band looked super cool. They all had like long cool band dude hair and like sunglasses and like slick coats. And they're all walking into the, the practice studio. And they, they all have like matching canvas bags with their gear in it that has the name of the band on it.

The name was The Bougie Boys, which is a terrible , a terrible band name, but it like, it stuck with me. Um, how cool. It looked like emblazoned on the side of these cannabis bags. 

[00:20:57] Olivia: like a, like a high school like volleyball team, like 

[00:21:02] Zach: Yeah. , yeah. Lacrosse team. Yeah. , the Biji Boys. But, um, Yeah, I, I mean, it sort, I sort of got the impression it was like, it felt like it was like arcade fire, like that genre of music.

Mm-hmm. . Okay. But, you know, that we were like successful. So I wasn't, I was like, yeah, that's not my genre or whatever, but like, I've been recruited by this successful band. I'm gonna be a professional musician. I was super stoked. Uh, and before we actually got started practicing, I went down the hall, uh, to use the bathroom of the studio.

Um, and , I, I, I, I use the bathroom and I'm washing my hands and like right after I wash my hands, I pull out my vape and take a hit. And then immediately remember that there's a shit ton of PCP in there, . And, uh, I immediately become like super fucked up and I'm still looking in the mirror. So I remember like, my reflection went like upside down and like, I got the spins really bad.

I could barely stand. 

[00:21:58] Olivia: Were you the ginger kid that you 

[00:22:00] Zach: No. Oh, okay. , if I was, I would, might have started lucid dreaming. 

[00:22:03] Olivia: Oh, okay. Yeah. That only happens when you lucid dream. Okay. 

[00:22:06] Zach: That's how I know that I'm lucid dreaming. Oh, okay. Or that's how I know that I'm dreaming when I see a ginger in the mirror. , . Um, but no, it, it was me, but I, I, I mean, I could barely see my face.

I was so fucked up on pcp and I mean, I don't know what that's like, but in, in the dream it was like really, like I could barely stand up. It was just like really intense spins and I could, I couldn't walk, uh, without falling down. And I was like, shit, I'm not gonna be able to go to band practice. I mean, and if I do, you know, I'm, I mean, they're not gonna show up or I'm gonna show up fucked up on PCP and they're gonna kick me out.

And I'm that. And there goes my opportunity to be an, a successful touring band. Um, and that's, that's all I can remember. I don't think, I don't remember making it back to the, the actual band room or not. Okay. 

[00:22:54] Olivia: Uh, can I ask you why you were hesitant to talk about this dream? 

[00:22:59] Zach: Because I think I know what it's about.


[00:23:01] Victor: Okay. Is it about being awesome?

[00:23:06] Zach: No. Uh, yeah, it is about something. Well, I, I mean, do you want me to say what I think it's about or do you want to take a stab at it first? Uh, 

[00:23:16] Victor: yeah. What do you think? Should we, should we do our film 

[00:23:19] Olivia: first? Or, um, okay. So we could do like some Dream Bible symbols. We could do some first impressions, or you could tell us what you think it's about.

What, what would you like to hear? 

[00:23:28] Zach: Uh, let's do that. Yeah. And if, if, if the first impressions and dream Bible stuff go nowhere, then I'll just tell you what, what I think. Cause I would love to find out Cool. Is about something else. Yeah. 

[00:23:38] Olivia: Yeah. All right. I mean, my, my first Wow. While Victor's looking some stuff up, I guess my, like, my gut is like, okay, that's, Like your dream maybe that, that being in this band is like representative of like your dream of success, of doing a thing you love.

Um, and like, I guess you smoking the P c P joint is like kind of a dumb like accidental self-sabotage of that. Like yeah, you just fucked up and like fucked it all up. 

[00:24:11] Victor: That's what my get was, was that it's like some anxiety of sh like shooting yourself in the foot or like blowing an opportunity somehow.

[00:24:18] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely what I think. It's just a little more specific. Okay. Um, what 

[00:24:26] Victor: was the name of the band? The Bougie Boys. The Bougie Boys. Bougie Boy, okay. I don't think I'm gonna get anywhere with the Dream 

[00:24:33] Zach: such a stupid name, but uh, I feel like my subconscious named it that cuz it was like thinking of this, you know, it's like a band's not even my, in my wheelhouse, but it's, it's a band that would be successful, like Arcade Fire or Imagine Dragons.

And so to me it was like, I think this, this idea of kind of selling out, but like in a way that I would be happy with cuz I could be a part of, you know, like the helper middle class. So you said 

[00:24:57] Victor: you, you did, you took the drugs when you were in the bathroom? 

[00:25:01] Zach: Right? On accident. I was trying to hit my vape and I, and I forgot that I had filled the vape with drugs.

[00:25:06] Olivia: Um, maybe. No, I don't know if smoking is actually really that relevant because you do vape, like that's just a thing that you're Yeah. 

[00:25:15] Zach: Habitually doing. Yeah. That's why I think it should, I mean, you know how dreams kind of unfold where events just take place and, and sometimes you can feel yourself like making it up as you go.


[00:25:26] Olivia: No, this have a, a couple of nights ago I was, we went out and I like met up with some people from college and a couple of things that came up were like, like classes in film school. And, um, that one time I wore a Cruel Deville costume. And then the next night I had a dream that I was in film school in a cruel Deville costume.

Yeah. Costume. And then, but there were like other details in the dream that I'm, like, the dream was probably more about the other stuff. And those were some things that were kind of like superposed onto it because it. It's something I talked about earlier today. 

[00:26:00] Zach: Hmm. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm sure that I hit my vape and my dreams all the time just cuz I'm addicted to nicotine and so it's a very familiar motion.

But in this dream I had, as I did it, I recalled an earlier dream where the vape was full of, full of drugs and, and so then my brain started creating a scenario where it's like, oh no, now you're too fucked up. 

[00:26:21] Olivia: Oh. So it was a separate dream? Like did, was there time between those dreams that you reco that you can 

[00:26:28] Zach: recall?

Yeah, the bougie boys part. Oh, not, I mean it's hard to tell how far, how far apart they were space, but it was in one, one 

[00:26:37] Olivia: like sequence when dream sequence . 

[00:26:40] Zach: There was no waking time in between. I don't know. Okay, gotcha. It could have been hours or minutes apart. I have no idea. But those are 

[00:26:45] Olivia: the, those are parts of your dream that stuck with you or that you remember and they were connected.

So yeah, there 

[00:26:51] Zach: was a through line, 

[00:26:53] Victor: so it pulled up quite a few Dream Bible entries here. I kind of organized them from. Like when they came up towards the end of the, from the start to finish. Um, so I'm just gonna start going through 'em. Um, dormitory, dream of a dorm represents common problems with others.

Your problems, anxieties, or ideas are out in the open. It may also reflect a lack of privacy while experiencing problems or anxiety issues, problems that are out in the open or obvious to others. Sharing the same problem as. Alternatively, a dorm may reflect intellectual pursuits that involve others, such as group brainstorming.

[00:27:31] Zach: Mm. That's not what I expected. 

[00:27:34] Olivia: Your problems, anxieties, or ideas are out in the open. 

[00:27:38] Victor: Okay. From back in, in the, so something that stuck out to me, you were in the bathroom when you did the drugs and we did a whole poop episode, right? Mm-hmm. . And there was a theme of, of um, you know, privacy. Lack of privacy.

And so it, this sticks out to me that dormitories also represent maybe a lack of privacy when dealing with anxiety or experiencing an issue. Um, 

[00:27:59] Zach: yeah. Yeah. Which is interesting because I was alone in the bathroom and I was alone in the dorm. Hmm. I got the impression that I had a roommate, but he was like long gone cuz the semester the semester was over, it was like Christmas break or so.

You're Harry 

[00:28:13] Victor: Potter, you're alone in the dorms on, well, let's go 

[00:28:16] Olivia: look, look at that entry again and see if there's a part in there that's not, that is not about, 

[00:28:21] Zach: I like the idea of someone doing PCP thinking. It's like a Harry Potter spell. , Angelist. Dustiest. . 

[00:28:28] Olivia: Sharing the same problem as others.

Alternatively, dorm may reflect intellectual pursuits that involve others, such as group brainstorming or a band. 

[00:28:41] Victor: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Okay. So we got couple themes possibly. 

[00:28:46] Olivia: Or if you're currently Oh, no, no. Nevermind. That's not, not relevant. 

[00:28:52] Victor: Yeah. If you were currently living in a dorm, then this symbol may, may be a reflection of your current surroundings or hold.

Similar symbolic meaning to a house. Oh, interest. Yeah. Which makes sense. It's like, well, this is where you live. It's, it's where you live. Yeah. So it symbolizes home to you in some 

[00:29:08] Olivia: way. So it could be like, so if it's not about a lack of privacy, sharing the same problem as others, or an intellectual pursuit that involves others in a group setting.

[00:29:21] Zach: I mean, it could per it, it could be, uh, this tiny apartment that I live in with two other men and Uh hmm. I do have, they're super cool guys and we get along, but, uh, it's always hard 

[00:29:32] Victor: living with people. Like, especially, there's always stuff 

[00:29:34] Zach: that comes up, especially in a tiny space with one bathroom, you know?

Yeah. There's, it's, uh, almost every night my roommate loves to watch, start watching TV at like one in the morning. And, uh, there's no other, it's hard to explain the living room setup, but the o there's o only one option for a place to put the tv. And it's the wall that, it's this wall right here. Oh, I see.

Of my bedroom. So it's like, oh, . He'll have the volume down solo, and I can still hear every word. Yeah. 

[00:30:00] Olivia: Um, so that is a lack of privacy for 

[00:30:02] Zach: sure. Yeah. Yeah. And also why, part of the reason why I've been like, fantasizing about living out in the woods in Washington. Again, maybe it's an extreme reaction to like always having people of my business.


[00:30:16] Victor: yeah. Or like, Seattle's too lonely. Nobody talks to me here. I'm gonna go to la Oh, there's way too many people here go and they all 

[00:30:24] Olivia: wanna talk to me. Yeah. Yeah. About their startup. . Right. . 

[00:30:31] Victor: Um, all right, so moving on to drugs to dream of illegal drugs represents unhealthy emotional needs that you, that you feel you have to be fulfilled.

Huh? All right. Yeah. Well, Dream Bible. Maybe do like an editing pass. Every Now I think you actually read that wrong. Did I Really? Unhealthy emotional needs that you feel have to be fulfilled. Oh yeah, I did read it wrong. . Uh, excessive amounts of pleasure or enjoyment. Behaving a certain way. You may be emotionally addicted to certain feelings or bad habits.

Masturbation, pornography, power over others. Gambling, making money and preoccupation with being physically attractive are all possible. Issues symbolized by drugs. Enjoy. Enjoying abusing power, enjoying hypocritical advantages. Feeling good before all else. A dangerous need to feel good to dream of. Being high on drugs represents dangerous, excessive behavior.

You may be aware of yourself going way overboard and enjoying it. Short-term feelings of ecstasy. It may also reflect an addiction to pleasure or power. Alternatively, being high on drugs may reflect how you are embracing bad habits, thinking that there will never be consequences for it. Embracing yourself, going overboard, getting angry to dream of overdosing.

Well, you didn't do that. 

[00:31:52] Zach: I mean, our dream, I don't know if there's an appropriate dose of pcp. Yeah. , 

[00:31:58] Victor: uh, to dream. Well, did it feel like an overdose? Because if it felt like an overdose, then I'll 

[00:32:03] Zach: read the No, the feeling wasn't Yeah. Of like physical, uh, detriment. It was, uh, of like career detriment. Like I, I like fucked up on opportunity.

Gotcha. But I, so this, I didn't think I was 

[00:32:15] Victor: sub die or anything. Um, so the subsections here are overdosing other people being high and prescription drugs, but it does say, uh, the type of drug is important. So marijuana, crack, cocaine, heroin, or ecstasy all have different meanings. So PCP is not in here. But conceptually, which of those would you say is closest to how you feel about P C P Sam again?

Marijuana, crack cocaine, heroin, or ecstasy. I guess. Crack. Yeah, I think crack. That was my same thinking. Yeah. So I pulled up marijuana and crack cocaine. There you go. So marijuana to dream of marijuana represents taking a break from what you were thinking. This means you stopped working on a project or working towards a goal and decided to relax or take part in more carefree activities.

If you have a negative personal view of marijuana, it may symbolize an aspect of something in your life that is compromising you, making you lose control. Oh, shit. Or encouraging a loss of identity. Did that, did that hit home? 

[00:33:19] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. Everything that, uh, all of this is sort of playing into my initial interpretation.

Uh, I was hoping it was steer me away, but it's all kind of coming together. Okay. 

[00:33:31] Victor: So it sounded like the part that resonated was, um, ne negative personal view of marijuana. It mason blaze an aspect of something in your life that is compromising you, making you lose control or encouraging a loss of identity.

And then crack cocaine is, oh no, it's not that long of an injury to dream of. Crack Cocaine represents your dependency on something that feels good and is horrible, having to give up a bad decision that, you know is, But do anyway, knowing you may lose all you've worked for. And that was exactly what happened in the dream, was it not?

Is that you had this huge opportunity and you, it, you blew it up on accident, losing all your power just to feel good, lust, attraction or bad habits that you destroy yourself to keep feeling feelings of safety, pleasure or comfort that you prefer before all rational thinking, a symbol that may appear when you were having a really hard time getting over someone you like that is dangerous for you.

[00:34:26] Zach: Uh, yeah, no, not so much that. Uh, I mean, do you guys have any thoughts before I tell you what I think it means? ? 

[00:34:31] Victor: Are we there already? Because I, I got more entries, or did Oh, did 

[00:34:34] Zach: we, did we hit it? I mean, it's all supporting what I'm thinking. Gotcha. But 

[00:34:41] Victor: we can, well, let's, let's hear what you're thinking. Yeah.

And then maybe we can keep exploring and we can talk 

[00:34:46] Zach: about it. Yeah. Yeah. I think that is probably the best way to play it. Uh, yeah. Cause I don't think you're gonna be able to guess without, you know, uh, Actually being in my shoes. Right. For sure. Um, so I think it's about my relationship with alcohol. Hmm.

Which is why I was reticent to talk about it last time. Cause that's a tricky, weird thing to talk about. Um, but I mean, it, it's a thing so like it's gonna come up in other dreams. Might as well, uh, just talk about it cuz it's not, I'm not like, I used to drink a lot, um, and I don't so much anymore, but like, it's still kind of habitual and, and it's not like gross or dark amounts anymore.

But I, I think I'm just getting to this place in my life where I'm wondering how much it's holding me back. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . Um, cuz I, I think there's almost more danger to being not, not like literal danger, but like somebody who drinks excessively to the point of actually hitting rock bottom where they like, they have to quit.

Is almost in a better position than somebody who can get by just, you know what I mean? Like they never have so they can keep operating at a lower frequency until their whole life is wasted. That's almost worse. Almost definitely worse. Or may, that's at least that what I'm af afraid of, I guess. Um, 

[00:36:11] Olivia: that I was gonna say just like, yeah, cuz I, I do feel like there's, there's a lot of different, that relationship can look really different between different people.

Um, like I feel like, like, I don't know, Victor and I are both people who are, are pretty moderate, you know, like mm-hmm. . Um, and I don't know, like, I, I don't know. I guess it's like if you feel like, if you wonder if it's having an impact on your life and you wonder it probably is how it might be holding you back then it probably is at a level that it, it may be on some level, right.

Yeah. Um, and that, that, that level can look different for different people probably, because there's, as we know, there's so much su, such a like, chemical, um, difference between people and their relationship with alcohol. Like, uh, that, that can be like hereditary, you know? 

[00:37:06] Zach: Um mm-hmm. , and there's a lot of it in my family.


[00:37:10] Victor: Yeah. I think what you're describing is like your, your comparison there. Um, so you were describing, um, like two different ways that alcoholism can look. Right, and in both cases, like unhealthy relationship with alcohol and it's detrimental to, to, to life in both situations. One person just kind of chugs along indefinitely, always, you know, being held back, the other person hits a point where they quit.

Maybe they had to hit rock bo, rock bottom, but mm-hmm. , they quit and then they got to live a life without that, uh, weight around their neck or whatever you wanna think about it. So, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But it's also, if you're thinking in those terms, that sounds like a part of you that is telling you you should maybe change your habits before you hit rock bottom.

Right. Or, uh, without ev you may not think that you ever will hit rock bottom. So you may never quit if you see that as the only time or reason to. 

[00:38:16] Zach: Yeah. And you may, may have even be classified as an alcoholic, just a person, right, just a person with shitty habits. Cuz you could be sober and just have shitty habits.

Like un Yes. Yeah. Unambitious sort of. You know, like if, if, if you're an ambitious person, and that's what a big part of this dream is clearly about is like wanting to succeed, um, at, at stuff. My brain shows music, but, uh, you know, I'm ac actively working towards stuff in, in the, in the podcast world, in the, the audio world.

And, um, that's what a lot of my dreams have been about lately. Um, so I think that's why like habits in general are on my mind. But like in general, I, I have I think pretty good habits, but that, that one kind of tends to throw a wrench in things when it does, uh, rear its head. 

[00:39:09] Olivia: And can I ask like in what ways you've seen that directly, like mess with your 

[00:39:17] Zach: life?

Um, yeah. Uh, one I wanna say this is why I was hesitant to talk about it last time is cuz I don't want like a potential employer to hear this and be like, right, super sure fucking drunk. Uh, because it's really, um, in the past it has been pretty crazy, but also, you know, in the past I was in my early twenties and invincible and surrounded by people who are also doing that.

So I thought it was normal. Um, and it's, it's dropped off every year since it's been less and less and less, but I've also gotten older and like now it does, it does not take that much alcohol for me to like, be totally unmotivated the next day. Mm-hmm. , like, I don't really drink to the point of getting hangovers in the, like, I don't, I don't get sick or anything like that, but I, I, I, I feel the, like, residual just the fuck.

Its the next day I won't, I'll just eat and watch TV and feel like an asshole for, uh, for not doing more with the day. And, and it's like, even if you only do that once a week, that's a seventh of your life just shot. You know? I think 

[00:40:25] Olivia: you're describing some like, Another thing that is really common and that I feel like everybody, particularly in, in our generation, um, experiences and it's just like, like that productivity hangup, right?

Where it's like if you're not working and being productive and doing something that is like moving you forward, you feel like a guilty piece of shit. Shitty shit. Bag . Yeah. 

[00:40:52] Zach: Well put. 

[00:40:54] Victor: Which is, that's kind of your work thing, right? Yeah. Is like you had a plan that you were gonna not job hunt for a little while.

Yeah. And it's still like eating you up cuz you're not checking your productivity boxes every day. And I'm obsessed with productivity. Yeah. We're all, we're all that way. And a lot of your dreams that we've talked about in this podcast mm-hmm. tie back to you are so driven. Yes. You are so motivated. You have a path and you, you.

Wanna plug along on that path. Mm-hmm. . And then also you're constantly aware of, oh, this thing's getting in my way, or maybe I could do this differently. Or maybe if only this was different, then I'd be able to get there faster. And I, I'm hesitant to, to, I, I'm hesitant to say this in a way that's gonna sound like, yeah, man, keep drinking.

You know, , keep on, you know, what is a problem really. Yeah. You know, I mean, you're here with us. You couldn't have that bad No. Just gold medal at the 

[00:41:50] Zach: slippery Slope Olympics. , 

[00:41:51] Olivia: I'm, I am, I'm, I'm right with you 

[00:41:53] Victor: though. But I think it's, it's important to separate those ideas, right? Because, um, You are, you are Take, take alcohol out of it entirely.

Right. Just like, let's, let's drop the alcohol conversation for a second. Thank you. Do, are you, I think you should be able to sit comfortably with relaxing every now and then. Mm-hmm. , like once a week seems appropriate to me. Yes. To be able to chill out and let go a little bit and tell yourself, I don't have to be productive today.

It's the day of rest. It's the Lord's day. And if anything, I would, it sounds like maybe on some level, like having a hangover the next day is you, like, one of the few things that you'll give yourself permission to chill out for a little bit. , and if anything that's the unhealthy relationship, is that like you're, you're needing a reason to relax.

[00:42:57] Zach: Yeah. Literally like having to like sedate. Agree. I mean, it, it does, it's sort of a snake eating its tail because of that productivity hangup, which by the way, Olivia used that exact phrase to describe me in like the first month that we worked together. She was like, , I think you have a productivity hangup,

Um, and I was like, nice to meet you. And 

[00:43:16] Victor: you said, I'm working . 

[00:43:20] Zach: No, I mean, at that job I was always just talking at her, distracting her from work. That's 

[00:43:24] Victor: true. . Um, 

[00:43:27] Zach: but. Oh. But, but that productivity hangup, I think does, it has fueled those nights in the past. Mm-hmm. , I've noticed a pattern where, um, leading up to like an important event, I just get more and more stressed until about 48 hours before I get super drunk

And, and then, and then the next day is like scrambling to put the ruins of everything together, all to all for it to like, come together at the last minute. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, that's, uh, cyclical. I think 

[00:44:01] Olivia: I will also say something that stood out to me, um, that you s that you mentioned a few minutes ago is that, you know, you drank a lot in your early twenties and that every year since then, it's become less and less.

That is not true for everybody. Like, like the fact that it isn't the same as it was in your early twenties, that that does say something and like, I think I be dead. Um, right. Well like that. I think that that's, IM important to note is that like, it's not that you're drinking like a college student still, you know?

Um, and there are a lot of people who do that their whole entire lives. 

[00:44:43] Zach: Um, yeah. And I'm terrified of that existence. Well, 

[00:44:48] Olivia: good. You probably won't do it then. . 

[00:44:50] Victor: Yeah, probably. I think, I think it is great to like have goals and dreams and be driven and work hard and like try to accomplish the things that you want to accomplish.

But I think there is something about hustle culture and like how people talk about productivity. I don't know if it's always been like this or if this is new. But, um, it's very moralistic. Almost good people will succeed if you do not succeed. You are a bad person. You are a lazy person. You are getting what you deserve because you have failed to succeed.

And so you, like if in some, on some level you buy into that, you're constantly like, well, maybe it's like when I take one day off a week to chill a little bit. Oh, that's the reason why I'm not a good enough person to have succeeded yet. Oh, well maybe if I n uh, lived like a perfect life, I ha if I lived like a saint and I, uh, was doing all, like everything I can think of that could possibly be productive, then I would ascend.

And I'd like have the dream job and have the dream scenario and everything would be perfect cuz I've finally been a good enough boy to be rewarded by society. And that's not really how it works. It's an important component of succeeding, but there's a lot of other factors at play, you know? And uh, I also think you only live once and 

[00:46:23] Zach: Yolo.


[00:46:24] Victor: You got a Yolo every now and then. You gotta like sit on the couch, you gotta 

[00:46:31] Olivia: yolo every now and then. 

[00:46:35] Victor: the episode. Sometimes you gotta, sometimes you gotta go out and party and sometimes you gotta sit down and do nothing and sometimes you gotta read like a stupid book and sometimes you gotta like scroll on Reddit for an hour and it doesn't, you know?

Yeah. Just live your 

[00:46:51] Zach: life. That puritanical work ethic that is pretty uniquely American, I think. . But I mean, and that's, that's how the dream manifested itself. But, you know, I think for me, a alcohol extends to like everything else in my life that isn't, isn't just ambition, but like health, like, like mental health.

Physical health. Yeah. I also, you know, I feel like it, um, it, it can throw me off my workout routine off, off my diet. It definitely, I mean, it's a depressant. Those, those, uh, hangover days that I'm describing aren't just, it's not just the lack of productivity that causes depression, it's the depression that causes the lack of productivity.

Mm-hmm. , um, 

[00:47:30] Olivia: I think like alcohol is unique in the sense that it's the only drug that you show up to a party and you say, I don't drink, and people are like, okay, like, what's wrong with you? Like, it's so normalized and Yeah, it is, it is so bad for you. Like it is really objectively quite bad for you. I, I was just seeing a study that was like even moderate.

Drinking, like not having a problem with alcohol, but just consuming it every now and then does do damage to your brain over time. And like I think that if you are feeling like it has negative effects on your health, on your mental health, on your ability to stay in your routines, um, then like pay attention to that and mm-hmm.

maybe that is something you wanna try changing in your life. But I think the other key important thing is like, you shouldn't have to drink to have a day of rest the next day. So like, right. There's two components here where it's like you have to find other ways to allow yourself to do that. Cuz I think it seems like your, your body wants that too.

[00:48:41] Victor: Oh yeah. Yeah. Because if you look at the other, like, I went on my productivity rant, right? But drop productivity, let's just talk about alcohol. Not like what you'd do with that time if you weren't drinking, you feel like you have an unhealthy relationship with it. That's something to pay attention to. And um, it's good to be tuned into like if there's something that is having a negative effect on your life or it's just not worth it.

Right. Um, and that's, that's worth exploring. Right. It sounds like that's been on your mind, but, um, but bringing that productivity back into it still Okay. 

[00:49:16] Zach: To relax. Yeah. That's what I think. I have this dream cuz I was, or I've, I've been thinking about it a lot and I spent two months tee totaling just, uh, stone cold sober for, for two months.

And that's like the best my mental health has been in years. Um, yeah. 

[00:49:32] Victor: Well that's great. 

[00:49:34] Zach: I mean, yeah. And it's, so I, and then. For the past month, I haven't been drinking much, but I'm, uh, I'm quote unquote allowed to again. Um, but yeah, every time I do, it's just, it's not, I, I don't know. I don't know how to describe it.

Uh, I'm just at, just at a weird, a weird place with it. 

[00:49:56] Victor: Yeah. 

[00:49:56] Olivia: You're, you're, it reminds me of something that, um, I experienced with, uh, marijuana, which was that I used to, I used to smoke a lot of weed when I was a, um, a 19, 20 year old degenerate. Um, and I. Like it for a very long time. I was quote unquote high functional or whatever, like, I mean, I could sit there and smoke a lot of weed and I could go to class high and like maybe that was my perception of it.

That was . Like that was, oh you're, you are fine and doing great. But like, either way there something shifted in me at a certain point, and I don't know if it was like literally body chemistry at a certain age, but something changed and it affected me very differently. Was it your 

[00:50:47] Zach: early twenties? 

[00:50:49] Olivia: It was like my mid twenties, like.

20 actually. Yeah, like 20, 

[00:50:54] Zach: 24. Yeah. It was around 23 when weed started. 23. 24 when weed started giving me panic attacks instead of being bang. Yeah, 

[00:51:00] Olivia: yeah. It started giving me anxiety and it was like, I 


[00:51:02] Zach: there's some brain development and there was ament that like 

[00:51:04] Olivia: mm-hmm. changes. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting.

Uh, and cuz it, like, it really quickly turned into a thing cuz there was a period of time there where like I was, I had a negative relationship with it, but I was still doing it. Mm-hmm. , I was continuing to do it routinely because it was a routine and, um, that I think can be really like unhealthy. Um, but, uh, I, I, I do think that like when you start, when you get to that point, it's just like, listen to your body a little bit.


[00:51:38] Zach: You know? Yeah. I did the two months of sobriety because I was right before that, I was starting to have nights where I didn't want to drink, but I also didn't want to be sober and I got this really. Anxious, like between a rock and a hard place feeling. Mm-hmm. . And that's why I was like, fuck it. Take just, I know which one's healthier, so just take it off the table for a little while.

Yeah. Get used, get used to sober being like your default, the mm-hmm. , like normal state of being. Um, and then, and that, and that worked that I, I do since then, uh, if I don't feel like drinking, I don't, that, 

[00:52:13] Olivia: that's exactly what what I experienced was that I stopped smoking weed at that point, and I was sober for probably two, three months.

Um, and then at like around the time I actually met Victor, um, like started lightly smoking weed occasionally, every now and then. And it has never since then been like an everyday habit and it's never been a problem. And I know exactly what I want out of it and how much and when and, and honestly like it's still like can pretty quickly affect me negatively if I do it in the wrong way.

And I'm very cautious about that. But like resetting to a place where sober is the default and you don't feel the need to do another thing can totally shift you into a more healthy mindset about it, 

[00:53:04] Zach: I think. Yeah. It's just that second part. The where you like sometimes have a little bit, that's part I don't know if I can have Mm.

Okay. Because since those, uh, two sober months, the couple of times that I have drank it was really hard to, once that dopamine starts flowing. Some, some people they get sleepy when they drink. I'm the opposite. I get really wired and I want to do, so I never just sit and drink unless I'm talking to people.

Mm-hmm. Or at a party or whatever. Mm-hmm. And those nights, by the way, I don't regret. , like, I will probably have some drinks at your wedding because I know the next day I'm not gonna beat myself up. If I'm hungover, I'm be like, well, I was at a fun wedding drinking with people. Yeah. It's the nights that makes sense.

The nights that I have like a bottle of wine while I'm writing a script, and at the time I'm like, I'm fucking Hemingway. Mm-hmm. or, right. Yeah. Na name an alcoholic writer. like, but then the next day I'm like, this is a dog shit. I have to rewrite half of this and I mm-hmm. , I don't want to, because all I deserve is this bag of Cheetos.

Do , 

[00:54:07] Olivia: Zach, do you feel like you get some, so that, you said something that's interesting is that when you, when you drink, you get, um, like kind of some kind of wired or like you get more energy. Do you feel like. That is like connected to your productivity hangup in the sense that like you drinking a bottle of wine so that you can write this script.

Like is it because you wouldn't write the script without it? 

[00:54:34] Zach: No. No. Okay. No. Cause I, I work on creative stuff sober all the time, and I get way more done. Okay. It's just the, when, when I'm drinking I get really excited to be creative. Yeah. And I do, I understand it does come quicker and easier, but it hits a point of diminishing returns real soon.

Yeah. Um, and then the shame that I feel the next day from having drank makes it so that I don't want to open that script or that song for like Gotcha. There have been nights where this hasn't happened in a long time. I haven't like, lost memory from drinking in a long time, but there have been nights in the past where I recorded entire songs and not remembered it.

The next. and was too scared to listen to it. Cause I'm like, it's gonna sound like a fucking in toddler, you know, banging on a xylophone. It's gonna sound terrible. And then I'll eventually, like a month later, I'll be like, all right, let's face the music, literally. And then I'll listen to him. I'm like, oh, it actually wasn't bad.

Like a little rough around the edges cuz it was a drunk guy. But I'm, 

[00:55:32] Olivia: I'm familiar with this, what you're describing just without alcohol, it's that like, I will, particularly with music, like I'll, I will write something and record something and like, I'll be really jazzed on it at the moment. And then like later I'll be like, I can't look at that.

And sometimes I never will. And then sometimes it'll be like months later and I'm just like looking back through stuff and, and it will be not. Terrible the way I, I, I, but it's like very much like a shame thing where it's like, but it's interesting. Like I, I feel like you're describing something I have felt, but it's not tied to alcohol for me.

It's literally just creating something that makes me feel ashamed of it. ? Yeah. 

[00:56:17] Zach: The, sorry, that's the side trackers, but the sun is nowhere but Victor's eyes right now. Yeah. Yeah. . 

[00:56:23] Victor: I'm in the sun right now, . 

[00:56:26] Zach: And it's not, it's not shining on anything else except your eyes.

You need to, you need to fix this. You need to take a break. , is there like a 

[00:56:38] Victor: shade? No. I don't know. There's just somewhere it can go. Yeah. Lemme try 

[00:56:40] Olivia: it. No. Have you seen the window that's there? It's literally like, have you been to a McDonald's play place when you were a kid? ? Yeah. You know the like bubble windows?

Oh yeah. It's literally that in the side of the wall 

[00:56:52] Zach: here. You're telling me he had a ball pit.

[00:56:58] Victor: I'm just gonna be off camera. Okay. You know, I, I had a similar, very similar experience with weed that it sounds like both of you had. Um, where it stopped being a positive thing for me and, but I kept doing it. Mm-hmm. and, uh, it was in college, right? I was probably around 23 and uh, yeah, I would, I would be at school sober like, man, I can't wait to get home, smoke a bowl, chill.

And then I'd get home, I'd smoke a bowl. I'd have a terrible time. I'd do that over and over and over and over again. Mm-hmm. for like a long time. And then like, I don't know what clicked or changed, but it was like, I don't think I'm enjoying this. I think I need to stop doing this. And 

[00:57:42] Olivia: I think this has been not fun for like a 

[00:57:44] Victor: while.

I think the change was, it was like, well, I don't like to get too high, and so I would taper back. Mm-hmm. . And then when I tapered back it was like, oh, that's still too far. And I'd taper back more. I just kept tapering back until it was nothing. Mm-hmm. for a while, or very little. And that's kind of still where I am is like I, I can enjoy a little bit of.

We're in Washington. It's legal here. We spent the weakest shit that, yeah, smoked the weakest. It's like most 

[00:58:13] Olivia: on earth. It's like nine to one c b d 

[00:58:16] Victor: week, . Yeah. Yeah. And I'll take one little hit like your grandpa. Uh, I'll take one little hit and I'm good. I'm done. Feel like I got the 

[00:58:24] Olivia: munchies. 

[00:58:25] Victor: Yeah. I'm like, that's all I need is like after work, I'll take one tiny little hit and sit on the couch and I'll eat like some popcorn, 

[00:58:33] Olivia: a bowl of the smart food, cheesy popcorn.

[00:58:35] Victor: fucking love the smart food. Cheesy popcorn . I've always loved it. I will always love 

[00:58:40] Zach: it. Yeah. I have a, uh, there's a podcast that I. Um, engineers sometimes, uh, it's all about weed and they have all these weed sponsorships. Um, peaked with Frank Castillo. Shout it out. Frank's a cool dude. It's a good podcast.

But anyway, they always give me, they always forget that I don't smoke and they give me swag every time I engineer their podcast . I have a 

[00:59:02] Olivia: bunch of weed 

[00:59:03] Zach: merch. Yeah. Luckily both my roommates, uh, partake. I just give it to them. But I do have one bottle of, um, log Anita's. Uh, it's a, we drink, but it's 18 to one cbd.

B D th HC has less than two milligrams of thc. Oh. And it's, that sounds great. That sounds great. Yeah. It's still sitting in my fridge though, because even that, I'm afraid I'm like to take one milligram. I think that would be, 

[00:59:30] Olivia: I think you'll have a great time with that. I think you'll just feel like, 

[00:59:34] Zach: yeah.

Waiting to 

[00:59:35] Olivia: be around you don't, I don't, I think you'll feel like you don't need to be productive and that's okay. And you don't need to feel bad about it. , 

[00:59:42] Zach: I just need some people around in case I freak out. The worst is being violently too high and alone. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, to bring it back to the dream and land the plane.

Um, the thing that, like when you're going through the dream Bible stuff that, like, I kept, I kept hoping maybe this dream's about something else. Um, the thing that like solidified as like, yeah. I think that's what this is about is, um, do you still have weed pulled up? Yeah. Let me, let me pull it up because like, because of what we're just, we are just talking about with weed, uh, like I feel I have a negative outlook on it.

Not in a moralistic, like I don't look down on people who smoke weed, but I don't, I'm like legitimately scared of th. Um, 

[01:00:21] Olivia: he won't eat muffins 

[01:00:23] Zach: for that reason. Yeah. Homemade. Homemade. I don't eat homemade confections. Bless you. Whenever somebody gives me brownies or something, I'm like, oh, I'm dang. I'm full, but thanks, I'll take 'em home.

[01:00:35] Victor: Did you get like surprised One time and so that stuck with you? Like, did you accidentally eat another bowl? 

[01:00:42] Zach: No, not an accident, but , the first time I had an edible, ate an entire brownie from, from a dispensary. Okay. I think we might have, Hey, you just need a nibble of those. I might have told this story on the podcast already, but I had a nine hour panic attack.

[01:00:58] Victor: Gotcha. So now, so it's not even about like a, like a fear of weed so much as like you've got like a Pavlovian Yeah. Like dog response to baked goods. Now you're like, no, I had a be terrible time the last time I ate a brownie. 

[01:01:13] Olivia: No. Like, I think I brought something to work one day. He said, no thanks. I'm terrified of baked goods.


[01:01:20] Zach: Yeah. It's like when you eat something and then you get the flu and then you, you don't want to eat it for years. Yeah. 

[01:01:27] Olivia: Um, but so the marijuana entry, if you have a negative personal view of marijuana, it may symbolize an aspect of something in your life that is compromising you, making you lose control or encouraging a loss of identity.

[01:01:41] Zach: Yeah. I, I think opens, I think that pretty Go ahead. Go. You go ahead. I can't, I can't see that you're out of the frame now, so I can't I think that pretty succinctly sums up my, like, fears with alcohol. Cuz again, in, in case any potential employers or my mother are listening, it's not like I don't drink an CE amount anymore.

I don't get drunk all the time. It's not like scary in any way. But I am wondering, like, like I said, is it, is it holding me back? Is it like too much of, of who I am and how people think of me? Is it too just too habitual, you know? Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:19] Victor: and uh, yeah, if any potential in players are listening, I didn't mean anything I said about hustle culture,

I actually think you should spend every waking moment serving capitalism. That's my deepest belief is that productivity is God. Um, so yeah, uh, if you're hiring. 

[01:02:37] Olivia: And if you're hiring, I am unemployed. So , 

[01:02:43] Zach: this will be the one that our sizzle reel that we send to potential employers. . . Yeah. But I was talking to my mom the other day and she was like, let me know when your podcast comes out.

Uh, in my head I was like, well, all can be about me jerking off and drinking too much. But

[01:03:00] Olivia: yeah. My dad wanted mom to listen to it. And the only , the only thing I had to show him was the poop episode in which I describe an a dream I had where my dad, uh, was, had entered me into a pooping contest. And I just didn't feel like sending that to him as the first introduction. But maybe it's perfect.

Maybe then he'll never listen again. 

[01:03:23] Victor: I don't know that if anything's gonna catch his attention, I feel like that might, might be like, I gotta keep tuning into this. I gotta see if I show up at any more of these dreams. , he 

[01:03:34] Olivia: and he does . 

[01:03:36] Zach: Spoiler alert. . Yeah. I mean, I guess that's just the nature of, well, when we set out to do a Dream podcast, we didn't highly confessional wasn't part of the.


[01:03:46] Olivia: I didn't think we were doing group therapy over here. 

[01:03:50] Zach: Yeah. But then once we dug into, it's like, how could it not be that? 

[01:03:54] Olivia: Yeah. No, we were talking about this earlier. It's like the idea of a dream interpretation podcast was like, that's a great, like, conversation starter, jumping off point for a podcast where people banter and shoot the shit.

But, um, no, it's like real . It's like about real shit in your life, . Uh, so I guess that's what we're doing now. Hello World. Let me bear my soul. . 

[01:04:22] Victor: This podcast must never be released. The people can never hear what we discuss on. Podcast

[01:04:35] Olivia: like you're just out of frame. . 

[01:04:37] Zach: Yeah. I I can literally, now the sun is creating a silhouette, so you look like you're on, on the news talking like about a gang that you're still in . 

[01:04:46] Victor: I'm like leaning against the wall, trying to escape the sun. That's like chasing me. 

[01:04:52] Zach: We should put one of those like robot monster voices.

No, but we're not doing video yet, so a joke will be lost. Hmm. Just do a podcast where we explain visual humor. I would listen to 


[01:05:03] Olivia: Um, 

[01:05:04] Zach: I feel compelled to keep like, talking about drinking now that I've opened the can of worms. Cuz it is such a shame-based thing, like I said. Mm-hmm. . Uh, so that like, talking about it all immediately makes me want to like, it's not really defending it, but it's like, I don't know, I just wanna like illustrate a clear picture for people so that they don't worry about me.


[01:05:24] Victor:

[01:05:25] Olivia: I do feel like you. I don't know. Uh, I, I'm not coming away from this with like a perception of you as somebody who has a problem. Like I, I'm not either. Um, it sounds like, uh, I, I don't know. I, I don't know if this is other people's experience, but I've found myself, um, and like my body in particular becoming.

More and more sensitive as I've gotten older. Like my stomach is more sensitive. Like I can't do the same things , I'm, I'm like acting like I'm 80 years old over here, but I feel like it sometimes, um, 

[01:06:00] Zach: yeah, I've hit, um, I've officially hit burger or fries Age. Mm. Yeah. It's no longer burger and fries. That's, yeah.

[01:06:07] Olivia: Yeah, exactly. But so like, I, I feel like what you're describing is like you're, I don't know. It, it does, it doesn't sound like you have like a drinking problem, but that you're feeling it. No, I didn't. And how it's impacting your life in ways that you are thinking about. 

[01:06:23] Zach: Yeah, I do think I enjoy it more than a lot of people, um, and have made more of a habit than the average.

But, uh, where was I going with that? . Wanna be funny if I was drunk right now? . 

[01:06:37] Victor: I have been drinking a beer this whole time that fuzz he has. Speaking of explaining visual humor, keep that in mind. 

[01:06:45] Zach: all my like, deep, deeply seated personal concerns. I've been punctuated by Victor taking a sip of beer. . 

[01:06:51] Victor: It's true.

Off camera. . Now it's off camera. 

[01:06:55] Zach: I'm drinking coffee from a mug that says first coffee, then adulting. 

[01:07:02] Victor: buddy. No, you should keep drinking. Where did 

[01:07:05] Olivia: you get that hobby? 

[01:07:07] Zach: I mean, there's bourbon in it. There's bourbon in it.

[01:07:12] Victor: I, okay. I feel like I have no grounds to talk about. I feel like what I have to say on this could be problematic or whatever, but, um, it's fine. You're off. Camera it, I'm off camera. , since I'm off camera. , this is Richter. No one can hear you. Uh, Um, all right. So , well, I think, I think some people would be able to drink with that, uh, with that frequency of like, like once a week-ish and, um, ha have not feel negatively affected by it, have it not impacted their day-to-day life for ultimate, you know, uh, success and their endeavors and, and be able to have a comfortable relationship with alcohol while drinking at that, at that frequency.

Uh, drinking could. Be as healthy as drinking can be, and look on the outside a lot like how you are drinking and how you are inter interacting with alcohol. Maybe that's not true. Maybe I have a horrible misunderstanding of what drinking is and what alcoholism is, and I have a problem or whatever. Um, but that's my perception of it.

Uh, but I think it is important. The important thing is not what it looks like to other people. Yeah. The important thing is if you feel a a, a dependence mm-hmm. , if you feel you have to do this, if it's having a draining effect on your life, that's what makes it a problem. I 

[01:08:48] Olivia: think that's kind of like the, one of the first things I was saying is just that like, it's so case by case.

Like there's so many factors that influence how it, how it affects you and whether or not it is, um, adding to or detracting from your life. And I think that that's something only you can really be the judge of. And it sounds to me like based on this dream, there is evidence that you feel like it is taking away from your life.


[01:09:21] Zach: Or what worried that it will or has worried. 

[01:09:24] Olivia: Okay. 

[01:09:25] Victor: Well, and, but you've also said that you felt the best, you felt in a long time and your mental health was as good as it's been in a long time. During that window you gave yourself to not drink. And I think that's important to, to pay attention to, you know?

Mm-hmm. , because that's ultimately what you care about, right. Is, yeah. Having that mental health where you want it to be and having your life where you want it to be. And if you got that by not drinking, maybe that's something you need to think about. Um, making a change. 

[01:09:57] Olivia: I also really think that like, for particularly, there's some people that it has to be an all or nothing thing for Hmm.

And, um, it doesn't need to be that way for everybody. So like, like you said, it's like, um, there, there are people who will drink at like special occasions and like couple times a month they'll drink or like they will drink first certain particular things and that feels good and appropriate. And I think that, that seems be, seems to be a place where you land comfortably.

[01:10:28] Zach: Yeah. Cuz I think I'm just getting too old to be drinking casually for no reason at all. And, and also combined with the fact that I have a hard time slowing down once I start. Um, and again, that never, that number never goes into like double digits of drink, you know? Like it's not Yeah. Crazy, but it's enough to not feel good the next day.

And so, mm-hmm. , I feel like I need to have, that needs to be an exception, you know what I mean? It needs to be a treat. Mm-hmm. , it can't, it can't be 

[01:10:56] Olivia: like that. I think that it can be really difficult to tell yourself never again when it's like, yeah. Yeah. That, I don't think it has to be that 

[01:11:02] Zach: way. Yeah. And I, I have, I've proven to myself that I have no problem saying no to that first drink.

It's just each subsequent one gets harder. , I guess I, I probably will at the wedding. 

[01:11:13] Olivia: And you're like, the whole week, you're, you're, you're on vacation essentially, right? Like, uh, I don't know. I, I, I just think like, if you can gauge when it's going to add to your experience and not be a problem for you, like that's like, kind of That's perfect.

And the problem is that the problem for a lot of people is that they have no sense of that. Right. And it, it, and that it, it always feels like a good idea, um, when it maybe isn't right. 

[01:11:43] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. And the, uh, the flight out there, this at nine in the morning. Um, but that hasn't stopped me in the past. I have terrible flight anxiety and I usually, usually have a couple drinks before I get on the plane, but I'm determined to do this one sober, so I forgot 

[01:12:00] Olivia: that.

You're afraid of planes. Yeah. Can't get a Xanax prescription. I feel like if 

[01:12:07] Zach: you tell your doctor, I've had one of the, I'm afraid of flying. No. Yeah, I've done that in the past. It doesn't work. Oh, 

[01:12:12] Olivia: interest. It's just not, 

[01:12:14] Zach: not, maybe I didn't take high enough of a dose. It actually made me more anxious. Oh, hmm.

Because I felt, I felt like the calming effects of the Xanax and then that made me go into fight or flake. Cause I thought like my body was shutting down or something. Subconsciously. Oh. And so my body start, the same thing happens with like ambient and sleeping medication. As soon as I get drowsy, my body's like, don't die and then goes into overdrive.

Weird. You're a freak. No. Booze is the only thing that works.

But yeah, I, I think 

[01:12:45] Olivia: Victor now Victor's off camera, but the sun has moved to be in his eyes again. Still chasing me. So maybe if you come back this way, 

[01:12:52] Victor: you'll, okay. Let me see how far than the other direction I have to go to

[01:12:59] Zach: It looks natural. 

[01:13:00] Olivia: I don't know if this will work. I don't 

[01:13:02] Victor: think this is a good idea. , 

[01:13:04] Zach: just turn your game out. 

[01:13:07] Olivia: You can go back to your corner. 

[01:13:11] Zach: But yeah, I think with anything, any kind of habit, the important thing is just like self-awareness and knowing, paying attention to it and, and doing what you have to do.

Um, this is me trying to like conclude this in a place that I'm happy with. 

[01:13:23] Olivia: Yeah. I, and I, I think you're right about that. And, and that, like, I think that, um, the generally people who have what we understand to be a classic problem with, like that a substance, um, that self-awareness is, is really skewed because of addiction.

Right. Um, and I think that you have some awareness about that. And so that's, um, maybe a good place to. 

[01:13:53] Zach: Yeah, for now, I'll keep my finger on the pulse, so, all right. 

[01:13:57] Victor: We gonna get another beer? I'll be right back.

[01:14:02] Olivia: thank you for listening to The Jung and the Restless. You can follow 

[01:14:05] Victor: us on social media at The Jung and the Restless Pod and submit your dreams for interpretation to The Jung and the Restless. Pod at Gmail, 

[01:14:12] Zach: and as we always say, 

[01:14:14] Victor: my dream is cooler than yours. Yours

[01:14:27] Zach: clocking. 

[01:14:30] Olivia: Dream forever. 

[01:14:32] Zach: Dream forever.

Recent Episodes

May 21, 24

62. Yawning to Assert Dominance

May 07, 24

61. Getting Torqued at the Gas Pump

Apr 23, 24

60. Too Close to the Veil