6. The Oklahoma Octopus

Victor has a foreboding dream about his grandmother. Olivia has a foreboding dream about Victor and Zach tries to guess…...

Victor has a foreboding dream about his grandmother. Olivia has a foreboding dream about Victor and Zach tries to guess what it means. Does she have cold feet? Will it put a damper on their upcoming nuptials?? The true answer lies in the Oklahoma Octopus, and the tiny prophet sent by the Universe to tell Olivia about it. Finally, the Dream Team tries to wrap their heads around the mechanics of dream environments, cultural symbols, and widespread job dissatisfaction. 

0:00 Intro

1:26 Victor's Dream

15:03 Olivia's Dream

38:46 The Oklahoma Octopus

42:22 Dream mechanics discussion

About Dream Bible:

Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams.  Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.


Dream Bible entries used in this episode:

Fire: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Fire

Mother: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=mother

Mushrooms: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=mushrooms

Moon: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=moon

Cockroaches: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Cockroaches

Ex-Partner: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Ex-Partner

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejungandtherestlesspod/

Check out our website for episode transcripts: https://thejungandtherestlesspodcast.com/

Episode Transcript

6. The Oklahoma Octopus

[00:00:00] Victor: Welcome to The Jung and the Restless. I'm Victor. I'm Zach. 

[00:00:04] Olivia: And I'm Olivia. And this is a podcast where, oh, God damnit the steering wheels in the backseat again.

Intro Music

[00:00:32] Zach: So I would get to like, go and set up four and, and watch like JLo and almost the, I, I 

[00:00:38] Olivia: feel like you told me a story about this job or, um, I don't remember. I remember someone called you a pretty boy. 

[00:00:45] Zach: Oh yeah. Like a guy from prison , because like a lot of manual labor jobs, there's a lot of like ex-cons, you know?

And I was like standing in a, a group of 'em. I didn't know that they were all, uh, scary as they were , but they were, I was, I was just, [00:01:00] oh, people smoking cigarettes. And so I joined them. And someone goes, Hey, pretty boy. And I didn't like, I pretended not to notice until he said it again. And I was like, oh, me,

Like, I was super flattered. He is like, yeah, who would else would I be talking to? And I pointed at another guy and I was like, I don't know, he's pretty hot.

didn't learn till later that I was flirting with death. 

[00:01:26] Olivia: had any dreams lately. Anyone? 

[00:01:28] Victor: Victor? Uh, I get, I get like flashes of dreams, but I'm having a hard time con. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. I do remember. Fuck yeah. This is, well, I told you about this. I don't remember. That's not like a whole dream. I, yeah. So I'll get weird flashes of dreams, but this one I remembered because it woke me up.

But it was like there was some video call. It was me and my mom talking to my [00:02:00] grandmother. Like I was in the room. My mom and my grandmother were talking. I remember it was like the, whatever they were talking about, it was kind of irritating me. And then like, I went over and I made some kind of comment. I think she like, I think my grandmother asked like, uh, hey, is this okay?

Or like, can you hear me okay? And my mom gave like a polite, like, oh yeah. And then I, I, who was irritated with it, gave like a more honest answer and was like, oh yeah, no, it's kind of, it's kinda messed up, you know, or something like that. I like said the thing that I wasn't supposed to say, and then she was like, oh.

And like went to try and like fix something and then it like turns very dark. She like tripped and like hurt herself. And then there was like a fire and she was like, horribly burned by this fire. And I'm like watching this screen of her like coming up like, like all like burned up and injured. Like, aha.

You know? And that like woke me up, was like horrifying image of my [00:03:00] grandmother. Uh, yeah. 

[00:03:01] Olivia: That's not a flash of a dream. That's a whole 

[00:03:03] Zach: ass dream. That's a pretty intense flash. If it was flash length , 

[00:03:08] Victor: it, it was very short. It all that happened at once. That all happened very quickly. And I think there's a lot of dream before that.


[00:03:16] Zach: saw it all on the video call. 

[00:03:18] Victor: Yeah. But it was one of those things where it's like your brain kinda like cuts to something where it's like, I, I, I wasn't experiencing it as looking as a screen at a screen, it was more like, I don't know, it was like my mind was the screen. I, that was how, like, 

[00:03:34] Olivia: remember the dream we talked about recently where like, Zach was in my dream and it was like, there was a video, but ev also everything was the video.

Yeah. No, sometimes videos are, are weird. Um, I was also gonna say, I, we could totally, we could probably like do this dream if we want to. Um, sure. But, uh, and I do remember this dream and the interesting thing that happened was [00:04:00] that morning we both woke up from a dream that ended in like a fiery explosion.

[00:04:06] Victor: Hmm. Oh, do you remember yours? 

[00:04:08] Zach: I do, yeah. Um, yeah. Maybe we could do these in tandem or back to back. We could. What was yours? 

[00:04:14] Olivia: Well, okay, I'll, I guess I'll tell mine, but I, I feel like our dreams have nothing to do with each other, but . Mm-hmm. I mean, maybe, who knows? Um, I guess so. Yeah, we were, I was on a boat with like my dad and the woman that he had been dating for a while recently.

And, um, she like came up to me and like nibbled my ear and I was like, what the fuck? Why did you do that? Stop? And then I like, kind of hit her like, I like, like not very hard, but I like hit her arm. Like to show my. Um, displeasure. Yeah, I was not happy about that. And um, and then I was like sitting on the boat and her son was there.

I don't [00:05:00] remember what he was talking about or, yeah, I don't remember this very well, but, um, how it ended was I was looking over at Mount Rainier and it just fucking like, went up full on volcanic eruption. Um, and like there was a huge like, huge boom and I remember think like worrying about the dogs cuz the dogs were at home and I'm like, they're gonna be freaked out and, and that's what I do is I worry about the dogs.

Um, but yeah, like we both woke up from a dream that was like fire and chaos. 

[00:05:33] Zach: would've been weird if it was the same time. Yeah. I don't know. He woke up at exactly the same time. Maybe Victor's grandma was on Mount Rainier. 

[00:05:39] Victor: Mm mm-hmm. maybe well do, do we. We can take a crack at my, at interpreting my short dream and then like pivot to yours and see if we feel like Yeah.

If we can relate 

[00:05:49] Zach: them somehow. Yeah. Yeah. Because it is curious as people who you know, uh, are, are getting married soon and like spend sleep next to each other, like, I wonder Cause a large part of your dreams are like the [00:06:00] days events, right? Mm-hmm. , like if you spend your days together and like kind of resolve your days together, I wonder how much, um, overlap is meaningful.

[00:06:08] Olivia: Right. All right, well let's do it, let's take a crack at 

[00:06:11] Victor: it. Okay. Uh, Uh, it sounded like you said it was mostly like, it was like a volcano going off. Was there like a fire? It was a volcano. 

[00:06:20] Olivia: It was a volcano. It was 

[00:06:21] Victor: a volcanic 

[00:06:22] Zach: eruption fire. Oh, yeah. The way you described it, I pictured like a paper mache thing with like lighter fluid on it.

[00:06:27] Olivia: Um, but you know, it wasn't like a, no, it wasn't like a normal volcanic eruption. It was almost like the mountain exploded. It was like, it was intense. It was not just lava. It was like the whole thing, like, yeah, it, it went boom. 

[00:06:42] Victor: Well, so, uh, the fire entry in the Dream Bible says to dream of something, being on fire represents issues that you are consumed by a strong passion or prolonged obsession.

Often a symbol for anger, intense bitterness or waking life situations that go way too far, a [00:07:00] temper that is out of control. Something beyond fire could also reflect the total loss of something destruction. Alternatively, a fire may represent a problem in waking life that has gotten out of control.

Alternatively, dreaming about a fire may reflect your fear of experiencing a loss that you can't control. Destructive jealousy or over-emotional reactions. 

[00:07:19] Olivia: Do you remember how you were feeling 

[00:07:21] Victor: in the dream? Um, I mean, I remember being annoyed, like I, like not hugely annoyed, you know, but just like mildly annoyed, um, the way that you sometimes are with family.

Mm-hmm. . Um, and then I remember feeling like I was being like a little bit disruptive. Um, and then obvious, like after that, when it transitioned into like me watching a series of horrible things happen to my grandmother, I was just like, Horrified and aghast, and it woke me up. Yeah. And I will say like, um, so I dreamt of, I think it was my mom and my grandmother in this [00:08:00] dream.

I don't think this was actually my mom. It was more like a person that represented my mom or a close relative. Um, and my mom's not somebody that I have much of a relationship with, uh, but I am, uh, I am very close to my grandmother. That's more of, that's more of where the family connection is. So, um, yeah, this person, uh, this, this mom was kind of more of like a stand in family relationship.

Yeah. The 

[00:08:26] Zach: dream logic mom. Right. 

[00:08:28] Olivia: Well, and then, um, your mom and your grandma also have their own complicated relationship too. 

[00:08:36] Victor: Right. But I, I, yeah, I, I don't know that it was about my mom, you know, because that's like a kind of a messy subject. I think it was more just like, you know, it was, it was probably more a dream about.

My grandmother or like a, a like general family stuff, 

[00:08:55] Olivia: you know, let's look up mom in the dream bible though. Cuz I think that that there, [00:09:00] that absolutely is a thing where it's like a generic mom figure, you know? Mm-hmm. , 

[00:09:06] Zach: oh, not like your mom, but Capital M Mom. It's a long entry. Yeah. I figured it would be.

[00:09:13] Victor: Hmm. So to dream of your mother represents your intuition or your internal guidance? She reflects your ability to make decisions that will affect you in the future, or how well you make choices based on gut instinct. She also reflects how lucky you feel about coincidences or good foresight feelings about how to safely get something.

Uh, let's see. I think, you know, there's a lot of different scenarios listed here. Um, but I actually think maybe what resonates, so I would say, so my grandmother is like almost more of a mother figure in my life than my actual mom is. Uh, and so there's a section here for, to dream of murdering your mother, which, uh, her being horribly injured or whatever was not an intention [00:10:00] of mine, but I did feel responsible for it.

Hmm. Like I had said the thing that like set her into motion, which caused like an accident that thenn resulted in her being hurt. Right. So I felt like I had caused the. The problem. So it says, to dream of murdering your mother represents feelings about hurting your future or terminating opportunities, killing off your good luck or making a drastic reversal of past decisions.

Killing your mother may also reflect feelings about choices or planes you regret. And now you feel you have to put an end too. Are you getting cold feet? Hmm. No. You, you had a what? Sure. Sounded like a, yeah. Okay, we'll, we'll get into that later. . 

[00:10:43] Zach: Wait, didn't, was that something that came up in another session?

Or remember somebody making a joke about cold feet? Oh, that was our production meeting. 

[00:10:50] Victor: Minus, I think air, I think we're gonna get into the stream. Uh, that dream was not a cult feet dream. Well, hey, don't spoil it Well, okay. All right. All 

[00:10:58] Olivia: right. . I [00:11:00] mean, I do totally have cold feet, but that 

[00:11:02] Victor: dream was thought 

[00:11:02] Zach: about that.

Keep listening to find out . Will the marriage stay on ? 

[00:11:08] Victor: Um, I mean, okay. So if I was gonna take your crack at interpreting it myself based on my own feelings, I think it's like, you know, sometimes your dreams are trying to process, you know, life experiences or things you might run into or whatever. I experienced a normal feeling for me, which was being like a little bit irritable and then like I was aware that the like socially appropriate thing to do would be to say thing A and instead I was like, fuck it, unsaid thing B, which is how I actually felt.

And that kicked a whole series of disasters in devotion. So it's like maybe some anxiety I have about that, about that kind of situation where I feel like I should say one thing, but it's not what I mean. And I'd rather say the thing that I actually think [00:12:00] or something like that. I, um, if I had to guess, I'd say it's probably, yeah, that's what it is, is my brain was running a little simulation of like, What if you do this social fa, fapa and, uh, it said you're gonna kill somebody if you do that.

So, yeah. 

[00:12:14] Zach: Or, or, um, like visualizing the, the fear of that, like that having been like, what if I do say this thing that I'm not supposed to say and then it ends up being the last thing I say. Mm-hmm. to this person. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , you know, that could be like one potential reason for that fear. That it's, that your brain is just like picturing.


[00:12:36] Victor: I think about that a lot. And then it also did kind of feel like, do you ever have that experience in a dream where something shifts a little bit or like you're, you get a little shocked or whatever by something that happens in your dream and then your brain is like, oh, we're doing this. This is a nightmare now.

Okay. And then it just cranks everything up to 11 because you had like a little bit of a freaked out response that wasn't really [00:13:00] expected or whatever. Like Olivia has a couple of dreams like that. I know we, I imagine Zach, you've had those two. 

[00:13:06] Zach: Yeah, I had a night like that, I can't remember anything specifically, but last night I had like one creepy dream and then I was, I was so tired, so it was easy.

I kept falling right back asleep. But then having immediately saying something creepy and waking back up again and I was like, get out of this zone. Yeah. Because I know it's just now it's your brain's like out to get you. Yeah, it's cuz I didn't, cause I was so tired and didn't, I didn't have time to like lay there and, and get over the first startle.

Mm. So I kept dipping back into the same feeling. I hate that. It was oddly just annoying last night. Cause I was like, nah, I want to stay asleep. Yeah. So do you think it's more about that, that qualm than it is about like your 

[00:13:45] Victor: grandmother? Yeah. I mean, it, at least to my gut is that it had more to do with, um, with how I navigate like a social situation more so than it has to do with any person that was in the dream or like any anxiety I [00:14:00] have over that.

[00:14:01] Zach: Yeah. So your grandmother could just be a, a like representative of a really, you know, important person that you wouldn't want to like the worst person across that line with, or at least the one that would make you feel the guiltiest. Yeah. 

[00:14:13] Victor: She'd be representative of someone that, um, I would feel guilty to harm and then my mishandling of a situation resulted in her being harmed.

Right. And then, um, yeah, I don't know. Like, I think this is pretty normal, but like, because we're so close, she has like a special way of getting my under my skin sometimes in some, yeah. Situations. So it's like maybe, maybe having to do with like, Me trying to work through irritability, you know, how I'm handling when I start to feel, you know, stressed out, that kind of thing.[00:15:00] 

[00:15:03] Olivia: Okay. So I think it'd be kind of fun for us to talk about a dream that I had last week. Victor and I kind of already dug into it. Um, but I feel like the meaning of it is really clear and um, and dream Bible has a lot of clues. Um, but so I was thinking, 

[00:15:24] Victor: oh, this game. Yeah, we tell Zach the dream, he takes a crack at interpreting it, and then you.

Your interpretation based on what our conversation last week. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Make of this what you will, this Dream Bible entry or not dream bible. This dream. Oh, this dream from Olivia's Dream Bible. This dream journal entry. Okay. Dream journal. 

[00:15:45] Olivia: Okay. Yeah. So it starts off, I'm, um, I'm, I'm running through this field and it's like dusk, like coming on nighttime.

Um, and I'm with Victor's friend Heather. [00:16:00] Um, and there's these purple moon mushrooms. That's what they were, that's what they were called. And they're these big like dinner plate sized purple mushrooms that are like, they kind of look like the moon. Um, and I, like I said to her, like, you know, you can eat those.

Um, and she was like, no, thank you. Uh, and then it like kind of cuts to, um, I'm staying in. Heather's apartment, Heather and her husband, Erin's apartment. Um, and I guess Victor and I were visiting them and Victor is asleep in their bed. Um, and I wake him up and he's like really groggy and tired, and I noticed that he has like a bad haircut.

Like, like somebody like totally butchered his hair, like, and left like really long stringy pieces. And um, also in this moment his face was not, it was not his face, it was the face of [00:17:00] like, um, the first person I dated who was like, uh, just like toxic piece of shit kind of person. Um, When I was like very young, like 15, 14, 15.

Mm-hmm. . Um, and then I'm doing laundry and I see a cockroach and it's like moving really fast. And then suddenly there's like another cockroach and the two cockroaches start to mate. And like I'm looking over at Victor, uh, to see if he sees the cockroaches. And then I look back and there's two more cockroaches mating.

And I look back at Victor and I look back at the cockroaches and there's a third pair of cockroaches mating. And then I looked back at Victor and there was a cockroach, like on his pants. And I was trying to like, I, um, I remember I like. I did the thing where like, you know, somebody is scared of spiders and you see a spider on them and so you don't want to freak them out.

And so you try to get [00:18:00] it off without them like you, because you don't wanna say, don't freak out. And then they freak out cuz they think there's a spider on them. So I like tried to really like subtly get it off of him before he noticed it was there cuz I didn't want to scare him, I guess. Um, and I think that's the whole dream.

[00:18:17] Zach: All right, Roach or. 

[00:18:20] Olivia: Yeah. Um, and so the p the things that I looked up were, um, wait, 

[00:18:25] Zach: are you gonna gimme these? Yeah. Mushroom. Oh, I'm trying to find, okay, well that's, I already looked out. Um, I ju I just typed 

[00:18:31] Olivia: that one in. Okay. Uh, and then I looked up, um, cockroach and, hang on one second. Let 

[00:18:38] Victor: me, I think ex-boyfriend was one or like ex-partner and bad haircut.

[00:18:43] Olivia: No, uh, Did we look up that hair? 

[00:18:46] Victor: It seemed pertinent. I thought there was something about, I thought there was a bad haircut entry. 

[00:18:51] Olivia: Um, no. The, it, it's a, there is a bad haircut entry, but we didn't use it. Hmm. 

[00:18:57] Zach: Okay. Well I'll read this out loud. [00:19:00] Since Victor usually does. Hmm. Uh, to dream of a mushroom represents concern that you are making a bad choice.

Preoccupation with how dangerous something you want to do might be a lack of confidence, was something you feel you are risking asking yourself, is this good for me or not? Struggling with values or morality, the prospect of making a dangerous choice that you don't feel good risking. Okay. Mm-hmm. . And uh, and that's it for mushrooms, no purple mushrooms or anything like that.

Is moon mushroom a real thing or did your brain make that up? I think my 

[00:19:31] Olivia: brain made that up, but there probably is a kind of mushroom that's a moon. But that is interesting because there's like moon and purple. I remember purple also has like a specific meaning. 

[00:19:41] Zach: Yeah, I remember. We were surprised by it cuz it was like completely contrary to the generally accepted symbolism of purple.

I know we've also looked up roaches before, cuz you have had many cockroach dreams. 

[00:19:53] Olivia: Um, yes, I have had cockroach dreams for some, which is so funny cuz we live in a place where there are no cockroaches. [00:20:00] Or like, if there are, which I think there probably are, we just, we really don't see them here. 

[00:20:05] Zach: Um, I didn't see 'em when I was in Seattle.

I've never seen, I see 'em every day 

[00:20:08] Olivia: here. I've never seen a 

[00:20:09] Victor: cockroach here. It's really earwig country out here. 

[00:20:11] Olivia: Yeah. Um, I'm gonna add Moon to this. Uh, but you didn't use it before? No, I didn't look it up before, but, um, uh, should I read it or do you wanna read it? Sure. Okay. You can read it To, dream of the Moon represents an area of your life that is becoming overpowered or strengthened.

Situations becoming more hectic. Dramatic. I'm 

[00:20:33] Victor: so sorry. I'm so sorry. Or noticeable . The, the sun is shining at my eyes. from where I'm sitting and it was totally a sun sneeze. I noticed 

[00:20:41] Zach: that. It's like directly aggressively in your eyes. Yeah. 

[00:20:46] Olivia: I'm gonna start over to dream. Don't I hit that out though? ? No, that's staying.

To dream of the moon represents an area of your life that is becoming overpowered or strengthened. Situations becoming more hectic, dramatic [00:21:00] or noticeable. Something in your life becoming more fertile or obvious. An area of your life is proving itself okay? Positively the moon may represent, um, unusual luck or very positive, unusual outcomes.

Larger forces seem at work in your life right now, heightened, exciting, romantic activity or overpowering romantic feelings. Okay? The moon was very, the moon mushrooms were very like positive. Like that was a, there was a positive feeling. 

[00:21:30] Zach: That was your feeling on him. Yeah. But your, uh, your friend or Victor's friend?

[00:21:35] Olivia: Heather. Heather. Heather, yeah. She didn't want to partake in the mushrooms. She was not enthused by the mushrooms. 

[00:21:43] Zach: Is understanding the stream can be difficult if I don't know her. Um, 

[00:21:46] Olivia: there is, there is a piece of information that adds to this that I think, okay. Um, we will give to you if you're totally stuck.

But I think that you could probably get here 

[00:21:58] Zach: without it. Okay. Because yeah, the [00:22:00] moon or the, that being a compound word, moon, mushrooms. Mm-hmm. seems paradoxical. Cause the mus, the mushrooms are all like risk and Yeah. Um, dangerous choices, which you, that adds up to me cuz like, well I immediately think of like a psychedelic mushroom, which could go either way if I were to eat one.

You know what I mean? Like that would be Yeah. A risk. 

[00:22:21] Olivia: Yeah. No, it, it's funny adding the moon to the mushrooms, like I can see why that's confusing, but, um, where I find the meaning in this dream, it actually makes a a lot of sense. 

[00:22:31] Zach: Okay. Um, I think I need, I need to zoom out. Uh, see, and then you go to their house and Victor becomes a shitty ex with shitty hair.

Mm-hmm. . Um, I'm gonna look up X 

[00:22:43] Olivia: look up the cockroaches. Um, cause I think, oh, I did, I think we actually got to this with just mushroom and cockroach. 

[00:22:51] Zach: Oh really? Yeah. I was just on cockroach. Um, which we had looked at not long ago. It was like things that, that are poor [00:23:00] quality and dirty and. Cockroaches situation being low quality, dirty or poor, A tarnished reputation, a continuous problem, feeling annoyed by something, subpar imperfections that embarrass you.

Yes. All bad, all, all. How people really do feel about cockroaches, that seems to be a pretty universally despised creature. 

[00:23:22] Olivia: I think there's an example in there that was interesting. There's a bunch of 

[00:23:27] Zach: example. Look at the first example. A young man dreamed of being surrounded by cockroaches in real life.

He met an old friend who expressed love to him. He was extremely uncomfortable with this expression of love. The cockroaches reflected how undesirable it was to have his friend be so honest with him about his feelings. Mm, that's 

[00:23:43] Olivia: not it. Uh, let's see. , there was, okay, let me 

[00:23:47] Zach: see if I can find it. The pesticide bonnet.

I was going for a walk the other night just around the block here, and I hit one, like couple yard long stretch of sidewalk where they were just like huge ones. Um, [00:24:00] Like longer than my longest toe. And I was wearing flip flops and they were just like scuttling all over the sidewalk. And I, here God did not, I did not react super manly

I did that like high step that you do in flip flops, . Mm-hmm. made a noise like

[00:24:18] Olivia: Okay. Um, I can't remember. Okay. Victor, help me out. I can't remember what it was, but it was one of the entries that we about, 

[00:24:26] Zach: about the cockroach. 

[00:24:27] Olivia: I thought it was, but it was one of the entries that we looked up for this dream. Had an example that was about a bad 

[00:24:34] Zach: haircut. Wait, I, I just love this one. A woman dreamed of Jesus placed a cockroach on her head while putting his hand over her mouth in waking life she was annoyed by a website for him not allowing her to talk about her religious police.

Oh, . What an epic dream. Jesus just comes down to heavens to be like 

[00:24:55] Olivia: very symbolic. I'm trying to remember, what was it? Do you remember that Victor? [00:25:00] 

[00:25:01] Victor: I'm, I'm looking, 

[00:25:03] Olivia: I thought it was the co. I just could have sworn it was cockroaches. Did they edit the cockroach entry? Oh wait, no, wait. It's in the very first paragraph of the cockroaches entry to Dream of Cockroaches represents feelings of undesirability.

Something you really don't want in your life. Example, the feeling you'd get from a bad 

[00:25:24] Zach: haircut. Oh, weird. Right? I don't. Did I skip that or did I read it and just not put it together? I 

[00:25:32] Olivia: ignore parenthesis, 

[00:25:33] Zach: if I said that out loud. People have been listening for minutes now, being like, just right there, dude.

[00:25:38] Olivia: Yeah, it's true. . Um, but anyway, I just thought that was kind of 

[00:25:42] Zach: weird. Yeah, but that's not like what's tied it all together for 

[00:25:47] Olivia: you. Um, okay. So 

[00:25:49] Zach: let's see. Is the dream just about you being worried that Victor's gonna get a bad haircut for the wedding? It's so, 

[00:25:55] Olivia: okay. Do you wanna hint 

[00:25:56] Victor: just a little context here?

Olivia did call off the wedding a [00:26:00] couple of days ago, , so we're no longer getting married. We're still living together, but we're not together. . 

[00:26:07] Zach: Victor's been making a lot of signs. . 

[00:26:10] Olivia: Fuck. Um, okay. So, um, this is a thing that I, I think it's come up in other dreams that we've talked about with me. Um, this dream is about something that has been like on my mind that I like go back and forth about a lot.

Um, we've talked about it a couple times actually, and then I think there's a couple of hints in here. Um, I could give you hints or I could just tell you what I think it's about. What 

[00:26:38] Victor: do you think? Well, I, I want to hear Zach take a crack at interpreting this. Oh, okay. Let's see. What do you think? Where, where do you think we're 

[00:26:45] Zach: at?

Yeah. Cause he already gave me a hint. Technically, if it is, is about something that has come up before. Okay. Yeah. Um, and I feel like the part that I haven't gotten to, like, thinking out loud about is the cockroaches being in pairs mating. Is that Yeah. Important? Yeah, I [00:27:00] think so because the only one that wasn't in a pair was on.

Him and you were trying to get rid of it. , and, and if, and if cockroaches represent, you know, uh, something undesirable kind of like that 

[00:27:13] Victor: haircut. Yeah. His dream doesn't look very good for me. Well, 

[00:27:16] Zach: but you're not you, you're this other guy. No. Yeah. But it's like dream logically you're there. 

[00:27:23] Olivia: It's funny because I brought this, when I like brought it up, I was like, Uh, Hey baby, I had a dream last night that I think might mean that we like, finally have like a, an issue that we need to talk about.

Let's see what this is about. And when we like dug into it, it was like, oh, no, that's not actually about an issue. between 

[00:27:40] Victor: us. 

[00:27:41] Zach: Yeah. It doesn't feel like it's about Victor. 

[00:27:44] Victor: No. Like, obviously, like when I heard this dream, I was like, are you getting cold feet? Do we need to talk? Is there something going on?

Because it paints me in a very negative light, and it sounds like there's something going on in our relationship. Right. But, um, Olivia does not feel that [00:28:00] that is the meaning of this dream. Do you? No. Okay. Cool. It paints, but you know yourself and you know, like, yeah. Yeah. I, I think that your explanation makes a lot of sense.


[00:28:10] Zach: Like paints a different person's face over yours though. Yeah. It feel, I mean, I don't know if this is me taking a crack at it or not, but it feels like it's about like something coming up that you want to be rid of or something coming back that has to do or maybe is like exemplified by this past relationship.

Hmm. So like it was a long time ago. So not, not like literally, you know, but like Yeah, 

[00:28:36] Victor: I think, yeah, no, yeah. You're onto something 

[00:28:37] Olivia: that connects, yes. Yeah. 

[00:28:39] Zach: Yeah. That is like something that guy did. Or like some residual behavior that you don't like you're saying again, maybe not necessarily in Victor, but, 

[00:28:49] Olivia: well, yeah, I think that's not quite, but it's like, yes, it is.

Like, I think that that face there is like, um, is more [00:29:00] about like a fear than it is about like any real thing. 

[00:29:04] Zach: Do those, do that, does that other couple factor in more? Is that the missing piece for me? Um, because that was the other thing I was thinking like maybe it could be more cuz it starts with her and ends up at their house because not knowing her at all.

I could take a wild guess and say it's about you projecting something. You were going, 

[00:29:21] Olivia: you were going on about the, the cockroaches mating and then you, I think you got maybe focused on the one that was on him, but the cockroaches mating I feel like was like, um, the thing that clued me in and it doesn't pertain 

[00:29:34] Zach: to Heather And what's his name?

[00:29:35] Olivia: Not, um, not really. It's like kind of a side, there's a side note about Erin and Heather that like, sort of adds like, yeah, I don't think you, it's necessary. 

[00:29:44] Zach: Yeah. Cause they do feel like more like the setting of the dream than the. Subject. Yeah. 

[00:29:49] Victor: Should we, should we give you our interpretation? Oh 

[00:29:53] Zach: wait. Does it have to do with reproducing, bro?

I was just going through things you've said that have come up in the past. I [00:30:00] remembered the hor, it was the horse dream, right? Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:02] Olivia: and the like. Po po. The Eagle one po or whatever, too 

[00:30:04] Zach: po Oh yeah. The P oh, the pony one was the one with the tree. 

[00:30:07] Olivia: Yes. The pony and the pretty tree . 

[00:30:11] Zach: People talking about dreams out of contact.

Pony was the one with the tree, right? . . Um, the Eagle one had a tree too, right? 

[00:30:19] Olivia: It did, yeah. It did have a tree. Yeah. That's interesting. Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:23] Zach: Um, were there any, were these moon mushrooms growing at the bottom of trees, perhaps, 

[00:30:28] Olivia: perhaps? No, actually they weren't, they were in a field. Um, there were no trees 

[00:30:32] Victor: involved.

a field of trees. , . 

[00:30:36] Olivia: That is a forest, my friend.

[00:30:42] Zach: Okay. So, okay. You got it. Putting it together. Maybe, maybe. Well now I'm trying to get specific. Do you think about what you think? Maybe it is, because I don't know if this is my interpretation or not. I'm, I'm like working on trying to figure out what, what you came to, uh, So with seeing a multitude of cockroaches, well, I [00:31:00] mean, you said like three groups or whatever, but like multiple cockroaches mating.

I feel like maybe you're seeing a lot of reproduction happening, like in the world when maybe it's like not thought out and not responsible. Hmm. And then, and then this one lone one being on, you know, a representation of like old toxic things that aren't in your life anymore. It feels like it, you know, me having kids is like rolling the dice as, as good as your jeans are.

You don't know how And as and as well as you raise 'em, you don't know like how they're gonna turn out. Like what if, you know, what if it dredges up? 

[00:31:34] Olivia: Well, that's another like, fear to add to my list of reasons why ? What if they just suck? You know? Um, but yeah. Um, no, it's, yeah, it's definitely like, 

[00:31:46] Zach: do you feel like it has to do with like, maybe making sure.

That you've gotten everything negative out of your life that you need to before you can 

[00:31:57] Olivia: do that. Not, not quite, but I think with [00:32:00] where you are at, right? Like you're very close to it, to where I have, um, concluded the stream. And I think if you go back to the mood mushrooms. Yeah. Now with this in mind, you might put it together.

Yeah. I feel 

[00:32:11] Zach: like I have a lot of loose threads that I'm not, that I'm, I'm tying, tying the wrong loose ends to each other. 

[00:32:17] Olivia: I think you've got, like, you've got the main parts, um, and then you're filling in details that are maybe different from what I, 

[00:32:24] Zach: um, thought the first line is a represents a concern that you are making a bad choice, right?

Preoccupation with how dangerous something you want to do might be asking yourself, is this good for me or not? Struggling with values. Or morality. That's kind of kind of what I was trying to say about like the other cockroaches. Mm-hmm. mating. Like you're asking yourself, well what it says right here, is this good for me or not?

Or is this, you know, in alignment with what I think we should be doing. The prospect of making a dangerous choice, you don't feel good risking. Yeah. I mean, yeah. In, in that, in that context, this, [00:33:00] this whole paragraph makes a lot more sense. Right. Is that where your head was at? 

[00:33:04] Olivia: Um, yeah. Let me look at the moon one again cuz I feel like that added stuff for me, 

[00:33:08] Zach: right?

Moon, an area of your life that is becoming overpowered or, or strengthened. Wait, aren't those ANMs situation's becoming more hectic, dramatic, or 

[00:33:20] Victor: noticeable? I think we could give him the context of Aaron and Heather now. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, Aaron and Heather are, uh, some friends of mine, they're married, they've been together a long time.

Um, they're both very career driven and so. Uh, for now at least they're not having kids anytime soon, maybe down the road. But they have solidly decided kids are a down the road, if ever kind of thing for them. 

[00:33:45] Zach: Mm-hmm. . Oh, okay. That's the whole context. Yeah. That's all. Okay. Well that, that makes sense. Them then them being like an overall positive sort of vessel for this dream.

If you're, you know, comparing and contrasting, I [00:34:00] guess, uh, positively the moon may represent unusual luck or very positive, unusual outcomes, larger forces seem to be at work in your life right now. Do you feel like that is like career stuff? Um, 

[00:34:11] Olivia: I think the thing that 

[00:34:12] Zach: like slash this kind of ambition that, you know, I 

[00:34:15] Olivia: think the thing that the moon added was there was something about fertility in there.

Um, yeah, it was in the top paragraph, right? And like, um, yes, things becoming more present or like strengthened, like, uh, for me it's kind of like. I've been thinking about this a lot where it's like, yes, I wanna have kids. Um, but I have a lot. I also have a lot of reservations about it. Uh, I have very conflicting feelings about it for myself personally.

Um, Like, I just feel like it's really hard and it probably sucks sometimes, you know? And, um, I guess seeing other people like choosing not to do that, that feels [00:35:00] like a really valid choice. Um, but I think that what the cockroaches were about for me was like, and also seeing that face on Victor was like the idea that, um, having kids would like ruin a good thing or like make our relationship harder or like, oh, fuck up our sex life.

Or like, make us like lash at each, at each other or exhibit like toxic behaviors towards each other because of stress that we're under or whatever. 

[00:35:33] Zach: Um, so you think that's the 

[00:35:35] Olivia: fear of that? That's the fear is that like, if we are to choose to have kids, because like you hear that all the time and like part of me is like, well, maybe it's just like.

That's gonna be more of a problem in relationships that are not, that are already not like working out that as well as they could. But yeah, they 

[00:35:54] Zach: definitely don't fix things. No. From what I'm, from what I've observed. 

[00:35:59] Olivia: Right. [00:36:00] Um, so yeah, no, I, I mean I think we've got, there is that, this dream for me feels like really clearly about like, do I wanna have kids?

Do I wanna take this risk? That is like not, the other thing I think about a lot is like, um, like the health risks of like pregnancy. Like, it's not just a simple thing, you know, it's kind of a big deal. It sounds, um, pretty awful. Um, but also there is something in me that's like, do that. You wanna do that?

[00:36:31] Zach: Oh yeah. Biology. Yeah. . 

[00:36:34] Olivia: So, yeah, so I don't know. I just thought it was interesting, like at the beginning there is like the mushrooms, I'm like, do you wanna take the mushroom? You can eat these. And she's like, no, I'm good. And she's the person in real life who like maybe, um, my brain reached for as like someone who's got other things that they wanna put all their energy into right now.

And that, um, you know, [00:37:00] that's not on the table for them. And, and, and I think the, the rest of the dream was like the fear of, of that choice, having negative, undesirable consequences for our relationship, which I think is fantastic and really good. And I don't wanna like, do anything that would make it less good.

[00:37:21] Zach: All right. I mean, that all makes sense. Yeah, I thought 

[00:37:24] Victor: so. So the weddings back on folks. 

[00:37:28] Zach: good. Cause I already bought my plane tickets.

Yeah. I wish I had kids like to , like offer literally anything. Hmm. But I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what, I don't know what, what happens to people. And I only have, I only have so many friends to like even use ex examples, you know, they're all stubborn millennials who refuse to procreate. [00:38:00] Um, but the one really close friend that I can think of, um, has that has two kids, still has a really great relationship with his wife, 

[00:38:07] Olivia: I think like, Logically speaking, that is not an actual, um, fear of mine because I, I do feel like Victor and I are a great team and that, like, I think that we are well equipped to deal with the challenges that, that, uh, come out of that.

But like, um, yeah, I guess that's just like, it is a risk. It's like your whole life is gonna be very different after that. So for many 

[00:38:35] Zach: years. Yeah. Forever. Um, but I'm sure my buddy that I was just talking about had this exact conversation with his wife. I think the pe the people that are most welle equipped for it, are the most trepidatious 

[00:38:45] Victor: about it.

Hmm. Hmm. Let me tell you a story about the Oklahoma Octopus . The what? The Oklahoma Octopus . So Olivia and I were camping the other weekend [00:39:00] and uh, we're not really. Fisherman, but, um, . , we were given the go. We're not anglers. We're not anglers. Yeah. It's not, we're not sportsmen generally. Uh, but a buddy of ours was kind of like shown us the ropes and like we were doing a little fishing.

And um, Olivia tells one of our friends that we're there with, that we're thinking of having kids. And, uh, our friend is like, Hey, you know, congratulations. That's great. Good for you, not for me. Good for you. Um, and, you know, not two minutes later, this family comes down, uh, and it's, you know, this kid and a couple and, uh, the kid promptly runs off from, uh, his parents and his parents are.

Overjoyed to have this horns, it not me, , uh, dip out. And this kid runs right up to Olivia and talks like nonstop, almost without a breath at Olivia for a solid 30 minutes. Uh, [00:40:00] about the Oklahoma octopus that lives in the lake, that's like a mile wide. Uh, and I think sends emails. 

[00:40:07] Olivia: Yeah. At 4:00 AM he might send you an email, something about like, I believe they're called seas.

I made that joke too. Did you? 

[00:40:17] Victor: I did. He's also saying he might have to nuke the Oklahoma octopus. Yeah. 

[00:40:21] Olivia: But has magical powers and Yeah. 

[00:40:23] Victor: We're gonna need to get Congress involved, first of all, before we do something like that, but some checks and balances. Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:40:30] Olivia: So yeah, at some point, um, these parents had to leave and they came over to collect their child.

And they said, sorry, he's a talker. And they took him and let, they knew what they were doing. Oh 

[00:40:42] Victor: yeah. They just let him go crazy for a half an hour and enjoyed being left alone, 

[00:40:47] Olivia: shoveling gummy worms down his mouth. Like just, just like take, at least take the , at least take the A D H D inducing ingredients away.

[00:40:59] Victor: [00:41:00] It was like God sent this child to punish Olivia for her hubris of thinking that she should 

[00:41:06] Olivia: reproduce and yeah. So he left and I said, I changed my mind. , 

[00:41:15] Zach: man. That lady should have like slipped to a 20 or something or whatever. Whatever. They pay babysitters. Yeah, for real. Honestly, I had another child dream the other night.

Oh. Just, it was just, it was like, like Victor's dream. It was a flash. Um, but usually, usually it's a, an infant girl that I have in my dreams. This time it was like a toddler, a boy, and I was just, he was just napping on me while I watch tv. That was the whole dream. Hmm. 

[00:41:38] Victor: That sounds nice. That's 

[00:41:39] Olivia: kind of sweet.

Yeah. I'm gonna send you a picture of the Oklahoma octopus. 

[00:41:43] Victor: Oh yeah. Olivia drew it over the last couple of days. It's very good. I should start 

[00:41:49] Olivia: keeping a dream journal. An illustrative dream journal. Yeah. That would be 

[00:41:54] Zach: kind of fun. Yeah. Wait, you drew this? 

[00:41:56] Victor: She did put it on the, uh, put it on our Instagram.

Well, he 

[00:41:59] Olivia: [00:42:00] made an impression on me. 

[00:42:02] Zach: got a cowboy hat and everything. sending a 

[00:42:06] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:42:22] Zach: Uh, this, this, I did have an interesting, like, thought about dreams the other day, and I wish I was, before we got online, I was trying to like, remember the dream that I had the other night. All I remember is that it was like super stressful, um, and chaotic and upsetting. Uh, and that in the dream I was living with my parents again, liking the jerking off dream.

Hmm. Um, and they were together and sleeping in the same room. So I, I also remember that it was at night, so they were asleep. Um, and then I woke up from this dream and I had to pee. It was like four in the morning and I went to the bathroom, you know, with my like a zombie state. Um, and I was thinking about like, oh, that dream was [00:43:00] probably another work dream.

Like all the chaos and like uncertainty and stress. Like that was probably like every other dream I've been having lately about like, career stuff. Um, but then it just hit me like when my parents were together and they got divorced when I was like 22. So like right as I'm leaving college and entering the workforce and I, I just had this weird, like, thought that maybe, uh, Or like out of nowhere it felt like an epiphany cause I was like half asleep.

But I was like, what if dreams where my parents are together? Cuz that's a marker in time is about childhood stuff. Hmm. And any dream where they're not together is adult stuff 

[00:43:35] Olivia: if they're in your dream. Yeah, that makes sense. 

[00:43:37] Zach: Yeah. It makes less, well it makes less sense coming back to it fully awake. But I was just like, what if the jerking off dream was not about like mo, like work stress?

What if it would've had to do with like, cuz Victor was even talking about that, it felt like a regression back into a childhood home. Mm-hmm doing something like kind of child, like jerking off in your room like you did when you're a teenager. Right. I was like, I wonder if that had was, you know, less, like, less career [00:44:00] stuff and more like, I wonder processing childhood stuff, 

[00:44:03] Olivia: but I wonder if we can find some information on these things because like, dream Bible has like a lot of symbols and that's been really helpful.

But I've also had this same thought where it's like, um, like in other contexts, like I will have dreams that take place at home, but my house is different. Like sometimes it'll be my house, sometimes it'll be the house I grew up in. Sometimes it'll be the house that I moved to or like for, or like in the last couple of dreams that we had or that we talked about.

Um, like I had a dream where sign guy was at the house that we moved to in when I was like 12. But then I had another dream, like the dream where sign guy was leaving with a truck and full of frogs, right? Like that was the house that my mom is currently in. So like, I don't know, it's just interesting that like what does that mean?

Yeah. That your [00:45:00] brain is like picking different times and places. Yeah. Like making connections with like, like broader context, 

[00:45:08] Zach: you know? Yeah. Maybe that's why it occurred to me, cuz this one the other night was in my childhood home. Mm-hmm. , the masturbation dream was in a, like, totally fictional, like I, the, the wall that was all glass.

Like, I, I, I can't remember ever 

[00:45:21] Victor: being in a place like that. No, that's interesting. It's like, I think, you know, something that we've hit upon doing this is, I don't know how much any of us believed in like, um, shared, uh, like the, the collective unconscious before we started doing this, but I, I do feel like I certainly, I take it more seriously because, uh, of our, I feel like success with dream interpretation I think points to something there and, and.

I don't know that it's anything. I don't really think it's a spooky thing. You know, I think that it has to do with like a woo woo thing. Yeah. I don't [00:46:00] really think it's a woowoo thing. I think it has to do with like, you know, our psychology and our shared cultural experiences or like, you know, kind of inherent base programming of being a human.

You're scared of a wolf kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. . Um, but I mean, you know, maybe there's a spooky element to it, but I think you can sufficiently explain it with just human psychology. But, um, this points to another layer on top of that, which is you have your shared language mm-hmm. , but then you have your unique individual, uh, internal system of symbols.

Yeah. And, uh, your internal, um, language of meaning for your personal subconscious that may not be the 

[00:46:42] Zach: dynamic. Yeah. And the dynamics between them. Well, and I was even wondering like if you thought it would be possible for that collective consciousness, whatever it is, to also share, cuz the symbols are like vocabulary and then a, a, a piece of dynamic information like this mile marker [00:47:00] means it's about, you know, you know what I mean?

It changes the point of view of the interpretation that would be like grammar. Mm-hmm. , grammar of the dream. And you know, if, if maybe that's too complicated to like share collectively. Cuz sim symbolism is like you're saying like real primal and instinctual. Well I think 

[00:47:17] Olivia: that like also each individual's brain is like shaped and developed.

Through the lens of their own personal experiences and their own life and their own, you know, uh, the things that they see and the things they learn and the things that they believe and the beliefs that they carry. And that by itself is probably going to create its own set of rules and, and language for your subconscious to.

With, I think you're right that it's more like a second layer. Like there's the broader layer that we grab. We like take things from cultural contexts, and then there's the [00:48:00] personal layer and the individual layer that is based on your own experiences. Yeah. 

[00:48:05] Victor: And, and to, to kind of go back to my short dream that we started with, right?

It's like, um, you know, I, I don't have a close relationship with my mother. She suffers from mental illness and that makes it difficult to have a relationship with her. And so, like for me personally, I have two mother concepts in my brain. I have my personal experience of my mother and what that experience was like, and, you know, our relationship.

And then I have the shared cultural concept of mother, you know, like that I, I've absorbed from being a person in, in around other people, right? And so, like, I think it is meaningful. That in my dream it was not my mom in the dream, it was the idea of a mom, you know? Um mm-hmm. and that those are two different symbols burned into my subconscious.

Mm-hmm. . And if I had seen my actual mom, that would mean something different. [00:49:00] Yeah. 

[00:49:00] Zach: Yeah. And they're both kind of there cuz you saw like a mom and then you also saw your grandmother who more, 

[00:49:07] Victor: who is 

[00:49:07] Olivia: herself herself and who was a mother figure to you. Right, 

[00:49:10] Zach: right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So kind of both, uh, ver versions of that word were there.

[00:49:15] Victor: Yeah. So it's, it's a version. So I have been shaped by that experience of my unique relationship that I have in my family. And, um, so like my internal. Like sim symbolic languages is a little bit unique in that way. And we all have our own, you know, unique imprints. Right. And even in the Dream Bible, it will say stuff like, I think we were talking about the ex-partner entry, and we'll say like, this is very unique to you.

You know, there is a general concept, but like your, your specific experience with your ex mm-hmm. ha has a lot to do with what, seeing that X in your dream means. 

[00:49:53] Olivia: Mm-hmm. and, and in the dream we just talked about the, the X like, there, there were [00:50:00] several Xs that I could have had their face projected onto you.

Um, but the, the X that. Was in that dream was probably the most, was certainly by far the most like, problematic person I've ever been entangled with. And like the kind of person that, the kind of relationship that was very damaging, you know? Um, and it's like I wouldn't have, I, I think that that is what was important about that, was that I was worried that this choice could bring that negativity into our relationship.

It might have meant something different if it had been a different face, you know? Yeah. 

[00:50:41] Victor: It was an early formed and like strong impression of an unhealthy relationship. Mm-hmm. a bad dynamic, a thing you need to get out of kind, kind of experience that's, yeah. Totally unique to you. And so Zach, like you're saying, um, like you have the unique experience of [00:51:00] your parents divorcing at a certain age, a certain time of your life, right?

And so seeing your parents together or seeing your parents separated has like a unique meaning to you from that experience that may not be shared by like, versus, you know, my parents got divorced when I was six, right. Or five. You know, so maybe them being together or separate is not, um, is not the same kind of meaning.

Right. You know? Well, for you, you have a clear line of. I was, you know, an adolescent moving into adulthood up to the point of my parents separated. And then as I became a, a man, like a, like a working adult person, my parents were no longer, no longer together. So that's like a clear line for you of like before and after.

[00:51:47] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz yeah, obviously the, the dy the specific dynamic would be different for everybody. Um, and I guess that plays in a role, a role in whether or not dynamics in general could be like a part of the shared experience, you know [00:52:00] what I mean? Cuz of people who have divorced parents, it's gonna be a different time and place for everybody.

Um, so I don't know that that would, because of all the like, nuances of that mm-hmm. particular event that it would necessarily draw delineation and like what a dream is putting a parenthesis around. Right. I don't know if that made sense, how I constructed, constructed that sentence. I, 

[00:52:23] Victor: I thought, I think I followed mm-hmm.

I, I, I would say like, you know, you could have somebody whose parents are still together dreaming about their parents not being together. Right. And then that would be for them, nothing to do with a marker in time. Right. And it would have some wholly different, uh, interpretation for a person who, who didn't have that experience in waking life.

So it's interesting. Yeah, 

[00:52:46] Zach: for sure. Yeah. It was . It felt like I stumbled upon something at four in the morning when I was being, you know, that like stoned feeling of being still half asleep when you're walking around. I do feel like you like rush back to bed so you don't miss [00:53:00] lose it. . 

[00:53:02] Olivia: Yeah. You gotta say it out loud so you don't forget.

Um, I do feel like. Parents divorcing is for like a formative enough experience. Like my, my, my parents divorced when I was in like fifth grade. Fifth. Yeah, I think fifth grade. And like, I've always associated that time with, um, puberty. Just cuz that was like the other big thing, the big milestone thing that was happening at the time.

But if you really think about it though, there's, there's always a milestone thing happening when you're a kid. So like, like just cuz I associate it with, with that doesn't necessarily, yeah. I don't, I don't know where I'm going with this, but it, I, I guess it's like, The idea that it's like associated with a time is like maybe looser than, than that because it, it, no matter where they're gonna do that, it in and of itself is like [00:54:00] the thing that splits your life, you know?

[00:54:03] Zach: Yeah. And I think I was trying to like drop an explanation for why we have weird non-sequential, like you were saying earlier about you dream of all different houses from different points and, but you're not, you don't go back to that time. Mm-hmm. , you know, and we do that all the time where we dream of like one thing juxtaposed to another thing that existed at, to two totally different times in our life.

Uh, and I think I was trying to come up with, uh, uh, an explanation for, or, or, or a mechanism behind that. But I think, I think it probably does have more to do with the fundamental meaning of the dream and whatever symbols it has to use is what it uses. 

[00:54:35] Victor: You were saying, you, you were feeling like this. You kinda woke up with this insight, um, that or this feeling of, of, uh, realizing something about your own dream psychology, right?

Which, um, could very well be true or could just be, you know, sleepy. You're not, you know, an idea occurs to you. It's not always true when you have an idea. But, um, if we ran with [00:55:00] that concept, right, it's like it makes sense that when we're doing this podcast, um, and we, we do one of your dreams, a lot of the time, the interpretation we land on is like, it's very present.

It's very much about work you or like your career path or whatever. And so, you know, we, we have to stay open to the possibility that our interpretation is just a product of, you know, what we're working with, right? Mm-hmm. our information. So we, me and Olivia only know you in the context of being an adult person.

You're, you, you're like, um, Dealing with career stuff. Like the friend of mind of like, I'm working at this job. Oh, I'm trying to move from this job to a different job. Oh, I want to, you know, so that is our context for who you are a lot of the time. So it would make sense if we are just taking that understanding of you and applying that in maybe places where it doesn't fit.

So like, um, you were [00:56:00] saying like you felt like you had this insight of that masturbation dream. My parents were together, I was in this house with my parents. Maybe it wasn't about, uh, me as adults, me worrying about my career stuff. Maybe it has more to do with like something from childhood, so from adolescence, something that you're still working through.

So like in that context, do you feel like anything jumps out at you about, like in the context of, let's say the masturbation dream was about your childhood, does. Bring anything up for you? Does that connect any dots for you? A 

[00:56:33] Zach: little bit. I mean, it does add another layer to it that I don't think we talked about at the time, which is, um, that career stuff for me is deeply tied, um, to shame.

Mm-hmm. , like I, I have a lot of shame around, um, what I see as a lack of success there. Mm-hmm. . Um, and so I, it, it adds to that. And we talked about masturbation being a shameful activity or perceived as such. We tend to feel that way about it, but if the dream is also about regression and, and being a kid, [00:57:00] that, that is pretty like tied to how I've, my shame with career stuff has to do with feeling like, um, inadequate and un underdeveloped and juvenile, uh, like an irresponsible kid who can't handle a career.

I feel 

[00:57:12] Victor: like that's so common. Yeah. I feel like everyone we talk to has some, some insecurity and, and deep dissatisfaction with their career. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's, it's either. You are doing something you don't love and you should be loving it or doing something that you love, but it doesn't, it's not good for society or it's not doing either of those things, and you're just like, you know, treading water, trying to find something.

It's like there's every per, every person we know seems to have. I, I don't know if this has always been true and people always feel that way, or if it's like a unique condition for like our generation and what it's like to work today, but it seems like there's like general dissatisfaction with. [00:58:00] Work.

Yeah. With your career with like, and, and constantly a feeling of like, oh, I should be doing better. I should be doing more with myself and in, in not just monetary terms, but like, you know, I should be doing more for the world. I should be doing more for my community. And work isn't checking any of those boxes for most of the people mm-hmm.

that we know, you know. Um, and I, I feel like that's something that doesn't get talked about a lot. Yeah. 

[00:58:24] Zach: And feeling like belittled in a specific way because of it. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Um, and also it is kind of a. Thing for me, cuz for my, all my twenties, I was like, fuck it, whatever. Work in coffee shops till I die.

Right? , as long as I get to like, play in a band and like do cool shit outside of that, I didn't give a shit. Mm-hmm. , but something about turning 30 was like, ah, fuck, I'm still a kid. Right. . And then especially in my last relationship, I, there was, it wasn't a good one. Um, and this, this person would use that a a against me.

Um, you know, and in like the throws of a fight or whatever would, would make me feel small for my lack of, [00:59:00] uh, progress. Um, so I, I think that that along with turning 30, like drove it a little deeper than it had ever been before, but I think it's always mm-hmm. been there as just a part of capitalism and probably, especially for our generation.

This is the only one I'm a part of, but it does feel like it's, uh, uh, what's the word? Harder, ubiquitous. 

[00:59:22] Victor: I mean, I am glad that it's not like a hundred years ago and I'm dying in a coal mine or in like a lumber mill or something. Like things are relatively cushy compared to that. Right. But, um, but still, you know, I think, um, broadly people kind of feel disconnected from community and purpose in their work.

Mm-hmm. , right? And so that can, that eats it everybody for sure. It's pretty messed up for her to like, use that against you like that though. Yeah. I don't know. That sucks. 

[00:59:51] Zach: Yeah. At least that's my side of the story. You know, I feel a little, um, I'm also simplifying things, so it feels like even though I'm not using her name, it feels like [01:00:00] shit talking.

But that's been the end result of it, regardless of what happened. That's, that's how it affected me, so, yeah. You know, that's at least valid. Yeah. 

[01:00:09] Victor: But so like, obviously being. Uh, at home with your parents who are trying to sleep and you're like trying to sneakily masturbate. That's like a, that's a pretty adolescent kind of experience.

And so like, it makes sense to me that there's a connection between feeling unfulfilled in your career and feeling like you're still a kid. Right. Because it's like we associate having, having like, work that you're proud of with adulthood. You know, we don't really have a rite of passage, um, in our, in our society the way that some other cultures do.

Mm-hmm. . And so like, you can kind of be left feeling like you're lingering in this child place indefinitely, and you may have some concept of like, oh, now I'm a [01:01:00] grownup, or whatever. Um, like you've got some checklist in your mind like, oh. When I have the solid job that I'm not trying to leave and I wanna stay in forever, and I have the family and I Yeah.

You know? Mm-hmm. have the house or whatever it is for you in your brain that makes you an adult and you haven't gotten there. You know, it leaves you feeling like lost in some way, you know? So, yeah. Seem, I think a lot of people feel that way though. 

[01:01:28] Zach: I feel that way. Yeah. And this other, this other dream that I can't quite remember, I, they were also asleep in their, in their bedroom.

And it had to do with me dealing with chaos in the living room and I trying to take care of it before they wake up, which it shares that with the masturbation dream. Mm-hmm. where it, this feeling of like, I gotta get this done before mom and dad wake up like I e before you. The dawn of, of childhood. Yeah.

Or the dawn of adulthood rises and the son of childhood sets. Right. Okay. And, and because if I don't [01:02:00] do this before then, then I'm officially a 

[01:02:02] Victor: loser. Right. That makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah. Is that for you in a dream, your parents being asleep and you trying to get something done without waking them or before they wake up is like you feeling like there's some deadline?

You know, you're not, you're not there yet, but you're getting close to it and once you cross that line, oh, I never grew up, I never, I never succeeded in whatever I was trying to succeed in or whatever. It's all a lost cause from this point. People feel that way about 30 a lot of the time. Yeah. You know, thirties, like if I'm not the person I want to be by 30, uh, I'm.

I'm a failure or whatever I used to have, this is not healthy, but like, uh, I was like kind of a dorky musician kid. And so like, I always had it in my head of 27, right? Because you have like the 27 for every club, same thing. And so it's like by the time 27 rolled around, I was like, okay, all these people that were my idols.

Mm-hmm. when I, I was a kid, [01:03:00] rose had huge careers that like changed the world and died by the age I'm at. And I have done 

[01:03:08] Zach: fuck all now I did the same thing, but, but my first one was 22. Cuz. Uh, the lead singer of the Germs Darby Crash, who I have their logo tattooed on my arm here. Uh, he died of a heroin overdose at 22.

A lot of those punk guys died in the early twenties, kinda like the SoundCloud wrappers now. Um, but then when I passed 22, I was like, all right, well that was just that one guy, and that that is, that is brutally young. Now that I'm here, I realize how 

[01:03:32] Victor: young that is right now, that you're 30, now that you're in your thirties, you're like, I cannot imagine 22 

[01:03:37] Olivia: is a baby.

[01:03:38] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. I was like, okay, 27 then, and then I got to 27. I'm like, well, this is still pretty young. Yeah. I, I got tired. Yeah. If anything, it's insane that Jimmy Hendrix was 27 years old. I like, as a kid, I thought he was like, oh my 

[01:03:50] Victor: God, 25. 

[01:03:50] Olivia: What the fuck? Oh, I know. I'm 27. And honestly, like, th that number hits differently too.

Mm-hmm. like just by itself. Cuz it's like [01:04:00] 26, you're like, I'm in my mid twenties, 27 solidly, like, you're in your late twenties, you know? Um, Or at least at the beginning of your late twenties, you're a late twenties. Some late twenties something. And, uh, that, that feels different, you know? 

[01:04:17] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. Weirdly, thir 32 hit me harder than 30.

Hmm. Because I started telling people I was 30 at 28. So 

[01:04:23] Olivia: just to like get there, 

[01:04:24] Zach: get in front of it. Yeah. To like mentally prepare for it. And then when I hit 32, I'm like, oh, now I'm like in my thirties. Yeah. I should 

[01:04:30] Olivia: start telling people I'm older than I am and then they'll tell me I look young forever.

[01:04:35] Victor: That's true. That would work. It would work. . 

[01:04:39] Zach: I was, I was just, when I lived in Seattle, I was hanging out with my roommate, a good friend of mine, and we were just like watching a movie and it was just like, hit me cuz he's also 32. And I was like, dude, do you realize we're closer to 40 than we are 20 . And he just turned the TV off and was like, what the fuck?

why, why would you do [01:05:00] that? 

[01:05:01] Victor: Wouldn't you ruin the day like that? And, but I think, you know, people tend to, um, Like hide that shame and that anxiety mm-hmm. , you know, and so it feels heavy and dark. Yeah. And like its you, you know, and lonely and like, you're the only one dealing with this. Mm-hmm. . And I think, you know, the more people man, just like everybody's wrestling at that same thing.

Yeah. And when you put it out there and your buddies are like, oh yeah, no, I got that too. It feels so small and like kind of stupid. Mm-hmm. , you know? Mm-hmm. , it's like, it's, so many things are just healthier to get out into daylight and fresh air and they kind of shrink down to their proper proportions.


[01:05:42] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm still wrestling with the, you know, just the cost of living in Los Angeles, but that's also not, probably not unique. It feels unique when you're like, I can't be the only one, like worried about rent. 

[01:05:52] Victor: But you know what, that's a grownup problem. That's an adult problem you got right there,

[01:05:59] Olivia: Thank you [01:06:00] for listening to The Jung and the Restless

[01:06:02] Victor: You can follow us on Instagram at The Jung and the Restless Pod and submit your dreams for interpretation to The Jung and the Restless Pod at Gmail. 

[01:06:09] Zach: And as we always say, 500 hundred dollars. 

[01:06:12] Victor: In this economy


we both know you should probably be trying to better yourself. For spending time with your children. But instead, why don't you head on over to Apple Podcasts and drop a review about, I don't know, some dream you had or something. Maybe we'll read 

[01:07:24] Zach: it on the pod. Put down duo lingo, put down your fitness app and tell us your dreams.

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