57. Luci Gooseys

What happens when we die? The Dream Team is coming in hot with musings on ghosts, reincarnation, and how maybe…...

What happens when we die? The Dream Team is coming in hot with musings on ghosts, reincarnation, and how maybe God is just all of us… Olivia has a profound experience speaking with a toddler-sized newborn baby in a lucid dream. Zach shares a lucid dream where driving a minivan from one dream to another paints a vivid picture of the big life transition that he is currently navigating.

About Dream Bible:

Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams.  Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.


Dream Bible entries used in this episode:

 Baby: https://dreambible.com/search.php?q=baby

Dormitory: https://dreambible.com/search.php?q=Dormitory

College: https://dreambible.com/search.php?q=college

Bathtub: https://dreambible.com/search.php?q=bathtub

Driving: https://dreambible.com/search.php?q=driving

Beach: https://dreambible.com/search.php?q=beach

Fog: https://dreambible.com/search.php?q=fog

Movie Studio: https://dreambible.com/search.php?q=TV+Studio

Police: https://dreambible.com/search.php?q=police

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Check out our website for episode transcripts: https://thejungandtherestlesspodcast.com/

Submit your dreams for interpretation to thejungandtherestlesspod@gmail.com

Episode Transcript

Episode 57

Zach: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Jung and the Restless. I'm Zach. 

Olivia: olivia

Victor: And I'm Victor, and this is the podcast where we're cracking nuts and slapping butts. 

Zach: Do you guys know what your first words were as babies?

Olivia: Dog.

Zach: Dog.

Victor: I don't know anything about my origins. know nothing.

Zach: You're like, 

Victor: I had no idea. It's just a blank void and then I'm like eight years old and crying.

Zach: you're like Wolverine.

Victor: on from there.

Olivia: not joking.

Zach: You're like Wolverine from X Men. You have no memory[00:01:00] 

Victor: Right, you know, who needs it? You know, that kind of thing just weighs you down. 

Zach: No, it's probably, yeah, superhero

Olivia: too good for you to remember.

Victor: Yeah, exactly, like, one day I'll find out, like, my alien, uh, overlords dropped me down here with a special mission, you know? I just need to turn 40, and then they can tell me what that is.

Zach: That would be funny if repressed memories worked that way, like something was so awesome that your brain just couldn't handle it and it shorted out.

Victor: Yeah.

Zach: You find out later that a whole chunk of time that you're missing was like when you won like golden tickets to a chocolate factory.

Victor: That's my pet theory about ghosts, is that, like, you're seeing something incomprehensible and, like, your brain just, like, mashes it into a thing that makes sense. Like, it's just making sense because your brain's always filling in information, 

Zach: brain's like, [00:02:00] Grandpa! 

Victor: Yeah.

Zach: You're 

Victor: So, like, you, you see the Lovecraftian incomprehensible horror, and you're, like, if you're, like, young, It's like, ooh, ball, ooh, weird light, and then if you get a little bit older and your brain's a little bit more crusty, it's like, anything I see that I don't understand is just a weird person that phases in and out of reality.

I don't know, I'm, I'm dying soon, so that's all I'm willing to think about.

Zach: Is that how your ghosts manifest? Some weird guy that

phases in and out of your house.

Victor: yeah, the one right behind you, right now, got a big mustache.

Zach: In a gray wool coat.

Victor: Oh, he's coming closer. Oh no.

Zach: That'd be funny to see the ghost of a Civil War reenactor.

Victor: Yeah, I mean, yeah, we're coming around to that, right?

Olivia: those are the lamest ghosts. Like you ever see those tv shows where they do like reenactments of [00:03:00] hauntings? Have you ever watched one on the Civil War, Civil War ghosts? It's just like, oh, and then there was a guy standing in a field and like, they're just the most boring ghosts in my 


Zach: they're also probably the most believable to me when you read about like the Civil War and like how many people died just like in Georgia alone like it makes sense that Savannah would be haunted as fuck

Victor: wait. 


Olivia: yeah, 

Zach: and that you would just walk through a field and see a guy but what would be funny is to see instead of seeing an actual Civil War casualty to see the guy who was on Ghost Hunters reenacting the like see the ghost of


Olivia: See, I want like, uh, a Civil War ghost doing weird shit in my house like the other ghosts do.

Zach: like trying to figure out how the burners work but

Olivia: me, like a civil war poltergeist. That's kind of fun.

Zach: got a sense of humor about it You

Victor: Civil war ghost reenacting how he died, which was dysentery [00:04:00] forever.

Zach: Just,

Olivia: Oh, 

Victor: All over your house.

Zach: just sitting on your toilet bowl when you walk in like that scene from Dumb and Dumber.

Olivia: Or just all over your house.

Zach: Well that would be horrifying, that wouldn't be funny.

Olivia: That's not much different than our house right now. Everyone's pooping and pooping all over our house lately.

Victor: That's true. That's true. Hey, I'm under a lot of pressure these days. Okay.

Olivia: Oh, just like with animals and the baby, the cat's been having problems. There's just been, yeah, a lot of poop in our lives lately.

Victor: That's true. We really learned the meaning of blowout recently, that's, that's become a big part of our lives. It's when, yeah, it's when, it's when baby shit escapes containment.

Zach: Oh.

Olivia: Usually if she's like sitting in a car seat or like sitting somewhere and it's, [00:05:00] there's like pressure, it really is like an explosion in there.

Zach: Yeah, I've always wondered how it gets like halfway up their back.

Olivia: Oh yeah. That's usually they're sitting.

Zach: Yeah. I remember seeing that when I was younger and I had like. know, cousins and, and whatever that were still babies. And, and an adult would have to go and take care of it. I'd be like, how did they do that? 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Zach: their shoulder blades?

Olivia: Yeah, yeah, definitely always bringing like a whole change of clothes or two anywhere we go. But you know what? Baby poop is not that bad. It's not that gross.

Victor: We've crossed into, into letting people hold the baby, which is, which has been fun. Olivia's parents got to hold the baby a couple days ago, and they, they were really happy about that.

Olivia: Mm hmm.

Victor: And, um, yeah, man, it's crazy how fast it's going. She's, she's getting close to two months old now.

Olivia: Yeah, she's six weeks now, as of right now, right?[00:06:00] 

Victor: yeah. Coming, coming up on seven, right? Yeah. Uhhuh

Olivia: Yeah.

Victor: Yeah,

Olivia: Yeah. Yeah.

Victor: she's starting to, um, give me menacing glares, threatening, threatening glares, you know? I think she knows something from a 

past life 

Zach: Figuring out who she 

has, who who she has to usurp to become head of the family.

Victor: Right, exactly, it's very Game of Thrones here, at all times, um,

Olivia: I hope she's one of those babies that, like, starts talking and is like, I was on the Titanic.

Victor: oh yeah, I would love that,

Olivia: That'd be fun. That'd be fun. And then it's funny how they kind of just forget after a while.

Victor: Yeah, yeah, I've been joking. Oh yeah, yeah. Like you, ghost baby.

Olivia: We talked 


Zach: and last time you brought it up, I didn't remember what you were talking about. I was like, I'm a ghost baby?

Victor: Okay. But this is progress. It, we said, we said it in a way where it's in your

Olivia: time we forgot.

Victor: Yeah. 

Zach: Yeah.

Well, I think I had to edit that episode. Where I forgot,

so I've heard it enough [00:07:00] times now. That it, that it stuck. But, yeah. Yeah,

Victor: that burn anything back for you? Are you like, are you living two lives now? You're kind of like in and out of like your past, you know, fighting in the trenches of the civil war. The, you know, classic Civil War trenches, you know? Machine gun fire over your head. You know, fighter jets flying over you.

Zach: A baby that died in

the Civil War. 

Victor: Spy satellites flying. Yeah.

Olivia: my theory is that, uh, so say reincarnation is real, what happens is you die, and then you're immediately a baby. And for a while, up until about the time you can talk, you just remember everything from before. So you're just like a full, you're like Abraham Lincoln in a baby's body.

Victor: I have been parenting her as if she is reincarnated Abraham Lincoln.

I'm just, I'm just gonna assume that's what's going on. When she cries, I'm like, I'm so sorry, Mr. 

[00:08:00] President. 

Zach: I mean, Occam's 

Victor: away, Mr. President.

Zach: Occam's Razor, you might as well just head your bets in that direction, because chances are good. But that, that 

Olivia: just saying that's probably how it 


Zach: that assumes that, well that would mean Abraham Lincoln died two months ago, or, sorry, how 

Olivia: Time is not linear, Zach.

Victor: how that works. 

Zach: You just said, as soon as you die, you become a baby.

Victor: yeah, but we have a single soul that's working through every living thing, bouncing back and forth, and that's God. And one day God will realize that that's all it's doing. And then time will end. I don't know. still piecing it together, but

Olivia: one mushroom trip at a time.

Zach: So she was somebody that died

a little bit ago, who was somebody that, like so on and so forth, back to Abraham Lincoln?

Victor: I mean, I don't like, okay, let's say reincarnation is real. I don't think the idea of like. Your, your soul [00:09:00] leaves your body and then has to find, like, a fleshy host in, like, like, a full womb somewhere and, like, enters into that soul, like, if the timing is right. I don't think it's like, okay, every time a person dies, a new baby must be born. Like that doesn't make any sense.

Zach: I picture there

being like a lobby, like a waiting room. Like,

like my, uh, the baby that I was before. My great grandfather's brother is who it was. He died of SIDS or whatever. And I had to go back to the lobby. And he's like, all right, I'll wait for another, another ship to jump. And then that turned out to be me.

He saw me leaving the My physical vessel leaving the harbor and he's like, I'll get on that one.

Victor: Hmm.

Olivia: I wonder what baby purgatory is like.

Zach: Well, I think it's, it's all one purgatory, right? Like babies are human,


Olivia: Maybe there's a different place to go.

Victor: Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Wait, are you saying [00:10:00] about babies that died as babies? Or are you talking about, like, a person dies and then they are, they become a baby in purgatory waiting to become

Olivia: I guess if 

this is, 

Zach: they're just like 

Olivia: how it works, there's no like, there's no afterlife. There's just purgatory and life.

Zach: Right.

Victor: What's the endgame, though? Like, what are we, what are we trying to

Olivia: Destroy the planet.

Victor: Oh, 

Zach: So we can

all become one 

again. Yeah. 

Olivia: we're doing great. We're right on track for that.

Victor: That's an interesting idea It's like maybe we're supposed to annihilate life like maybe life is the problem It keeps like dragging us down into the material world with all of its faults You know, we should if nothing existed there'd be no sin, 

Zach: that's the, that's the foundation of my cult that I'm starting. We're trying 

Olivia: kill the world, we all go back into one being, we're all God again. God beat the game.

Victor: Yeah

Olivia: God beat his own [00:11:00] simulation.

Victor: God being me, I, I am God. Everyone else is auxiliary God, backup God, you know,

Zach: We're 

Victor: fill in in my absence, but

Zach: really figuring it out today right off the bat.

Olivia: Yeah, coming in hot.

Olivia's Dream

Olivia: I had kind of a profound lucid dream, which I don't normally lucid dream.

Zach: I had, the one that I brought, if, if it was, if we needed a dream, was, uh, Lucid, or like a weird version of Lucid that I've never had 

Olivia: Ooh, maybe we can do both?

Victor: yeah, [00:12:00] yeah, lucid, lucy goosies 

Zach: they're, if Lucy Goosies, yeah, if, if they're related somehow, that could be the only thing they have in common.

Victor: That's enough.

Olivia: That's plenty.

Zach: What's, you wanna tell us about yours?

Olivia: Sure. Um, Okay, just give me a second to gather my thoughts. Drink some water and clear my throat. And Yeah, fuck, my shoulder is killing

Victor: Oh man, I'm sorry.

Olivia: Holding a baby and nursing is like really something. On your neck. And you're back, and you're pussy and you're crack.

Zach: This is a dumb question, but can you. You can drink caffeine when you're pregnant, right?

Olivia: Like, don't go crazy with it, but you can have, like, plenty of caffeine for one person.

Zach: Okay.

Victor: Should I not be giving her coffee?

Is that a thing I should stop doing?

Zach: [00:13:00] You can give it to her directly when she's born.

Victor: Just figure if there's, like, some wet grounds on the bottom of the French press, you know? Put them to good use, you

Olivia: grounds on her gums.

Zach: When I worked at a coffee shop, these two little kids came in one time, probably like, I don't know, 10 and 7, around those ages, and they were unsupervised. They just walked into the shop and they had cash, and they each wanted a double shot of espresso.

Victor: Oh, wow.

Zach: And, and I didn't, 

Olivia: were they up


Zach: I don't know, they were so pumped when I made it for them though, and, and then I,

Olivia: they were not supposed to have 


Zach: no, I started thinking about that afterward, cause I was 

Olivia: like you could have said no maybe 

Zach: I don't know, I didn't 

Olivia: What are they gonna do? They're not gonna sue you

Zach: yeah, I don't know, I didn't, I didn't really think about it, I was just like, this is legal tender,

Olivia: Yeah, you're not their parents not your 


Zach: yeah, yeah, that's what I was 

Olivia: their parents fault

Zach: that's what I was thinking at the time, but then afterward, I, I, I don't know, I had a thought cross my mind that that [00:14:00] might not be legal, so I googled, legal to sell children coffee, I was like, well that's a thing that's in my search history now. Yeah, without their parents presence.

Victor: I

Olivia: Okay, So I had this dream Like two or three nights ago And it was pretty brief uh, I was Laying in bed, but I was at, I was at college, but it was like, uh, it was a room. I didn't recognize, but it was like a bedroom and I knew that I was at college. Um, and Victor was, uh, there with me and it was dark. We were sleeping.

And, um, I heard it was maybe like a dorm room because there was like an attached bathroom. Um, and I heard like a, a sloshing. Splashing sound coming from the bathroom. [00:15:00] And I got up and I, I was walking towards the bathroom to go investigate and I got this, like, this feeling of dread as I was approaching the bathroom.

I was like, scared. Um, and I, like, thought, oh, I really don't want to, I don't want to look in there. Um, and at this point. It really felt like the dream took over and like made me lucid at that moment and was like, no, it's fine, this is a dream, you need to go look in the bathroom. Sorry if you can hear the baby.


Zach: You can just blame it on me next time.

Olivia: Yeah, so, so I, like, became aware that it was a dream and I was like, okay, it's fine to look in the bathroom. I'm not scared of this because it's a dream. And I opened the bathroom door and in the bathroom, in the bathtub, there was, uh, it looked like a newborn baby in the way [00:16:00] that, like, if you've seen a newborn, they're like kind of all scrunched up and writhing and, like, their face is kind of like Puffy and like they're not really online yet.

You know, um, it was a newborn baby, but it was like large It was like the size of a toddler Like it had kept growing but had not developed past being a newborn and I picked it up and I'm like kind of holding it in front of me And I asked it so this is what was so interesting to me because we talked about this and like Steve had talked about this where like, in a lucid dream, you might ask a dream character a question and, um, and I was like, in this lucid state where I was like, holding this like, maldeveloped

Victor: it

Olivia: what are you?

And it said, you I'm the part of you that hates people[00:17:00] 

Zach: Whoa.

Olivia: I, I know I don't like chills, right? And then, but like, at the same time as it said that what I received was that it was the part of me that hates myself.

Victor: hates 

Olivia: Like that those meant the same thing, like the part of you that hates people is the part of you that hates yourself.

and I don't remember. I feel like something else was said. I don't remember exactly, but. Uh, I put it back in the bathtub, and, um, I think I reassured it that it was gonna be okay. yeah, I think I just told it it's gonna be okay. And, uh, I went back to bed and I was telling Victor, in my dream, that I just had a lucid dream.

And that the baby in my lucid dream told me that it was the part of me that hates people. And then I said to him, I think this dream means that I need to have more [00:18:00] compassion for people. and, yeah, just like, the whole time I got the feeling that, like, the concept of people in this dream was also synonymous, like, it included me on a, on a big level, like, it wasn't, like, about external people entirely.

Like it was very much also about myself. Um, and that was the whole dream.

Zach: Like we just established, we're all one and we're all God trying to destroy the planet. you That last part was still the dream, right? Where you were telling Victor what you thought the meaning was? Yes, you were still

Olivia: Yes. Yeah, that was still in the dream.

Zach: You're doing that thing where you dream interpret a dream

Olivia: Yeah. I keep doing that. Uh, that's definitely because of this podcast.

Zach: but

Olivia: But yeah, I guess like, oh, go 


Zach: I was gonna ask if it has subsided in [00:19:00] frequency since we've been Recording less often

Olivia: Um, possibly. I haven't been dreaming as much or recording my dreams as often. So, yeah, it maybe hasn't had as much of a chance to do that. But this dream was really profound. Like, I did not need to write anything down. Um, like most of the dreams that I've had in the last, um, A few months I've, like, had a hard time retaining them or, like, really had to, like, document it right away, but, like, um, I don't know, this one just, like, was extra vivid and, um. It really stuck with me, especially, I don't know. It just feels like, I mean, there's definitely stuff to dig into, but it's like, so, I don't know. It, it feels really on the nose, like, when I, when I say it out loud, this, infant in, like, arrested development, you know, that's like, that kept getting bigger, but didn't, uh, didn't develop I guess there's, there's a lot to dig into to [00:20:00] there, yeah.

Victor: there's Yeah,

Olivia: Yeah, it's almost like, yeah, it's almost like too corny. Mm hmm.

Victor: There's like a really clear, like, like, it, your dream's telling you what it means, but um, there might be some deeper meaning. So, dormitory, right? You said we're in a dorm? Yeah,

Olivia: and I, we have explored like school before. Um, and I, I remember that the level of school

Victor: It's the level of distress or

Olivia: or like, uh, I don't know. Well, according to dream Bible, I think it like maybe points to like different things that you might be, um, dealing with or like, it may be, it's one of those things where it's like, that's the time in your life where this is pointing back to, 


Zach: yeah, I remember having to do something with like if like if you're in elementary school, it's like a rudimentary rudimentary problem That you, you might've, you know, developed at a [00:21:00] very early age, like something really basic, like, you know, playing well with others.

And if it's college, it could be, you know, psychologically more complex.

Olivia: Well, what's interesting to me is that, uh, the character that I spoke to was a, uh, an infant. but I'm at college, which is like, the highest level, 

Zach: Well, when you think about

it, like those rudimentary problems that you pick up early on would become the most complicated because they are so ingrained in your, like, subconscious, you know, that you've been. They've been, you've been carrying them you know what I mean?

Victor: Definitely. It's like, the roots are, like, very old and very basic and have to do with, like, your early childhood development, but they've, like, grown into this, like, Yeah. Yeah. Complex, developed monster that you have to deal with.

Olivia: Yeah. Yeah, so I would like to look at dormitory, but I would also like to read the college entry, I think.

Victor: Okay, interesting. Yeah, I just want to get all my entries squared away,[00:22:00] 

Olivia: Cause it didn't actually, like, I'm saying that it felt like a dormitory because it was the layout of a dormitory, but I remember when I was there, like, feeling like it was a classroom or something, like, it, it felt like I was at, in school.

Victor: Interesting. Okay. Okay, so we got college and dormitory, and then I've got, um, bathtubs, any other symbols I should pull up?

Olivia: No, I think that's a great place to start. Yeah.

Victor: represents common problems with others. Well, there you go. Your problems, anxieties, or ideas are out in the open. It may also reflect a lack of privacy when experiencing problems or anxiety issues. Problems that are out in the open or obvious to others. Sharing the same problem as others.

Alternatively, a dorm may reflect intellectual pursuits that involve others such as group brainstorming. Uh, to dream of sleeping in a dorm, which you were, right? May represent inaction or an unwillingness to change something that [00:23:00] other people are noticing about you. If you're currently in college living in a dormitory, then throw all that out.

Olivia: Yeah. That's, that is interesting. Um, I'd like to hear college too, while we're here.

Victor: College. To dream of college represents issues or situations in your life that you're giving serious, that you're giving serious thought that benefit you and increase your status or power. They can represent well earned relaxation, success, or compensation for hard work. College in a dream may be a sign that you are very busy or focused on an issue that is allowing you to improve yourself or benefit in some way.

You may want to show off your skills or take a well deserved break. College dreams are common when people are learning new skills, finishing work projects that allow them to gain in some way. You may have worked hard to earn something and now want to play with it.

Olivia: Hmm.

Victor: You worked hard to earn this baby.

Olivia: And now I wanna play with, but she is, she's still kind of a potato right now. 

Zach: It does kind of sound like college is parenthood though. Cause you've [00:24:00] been since from day one before the baby was even born, when it was the baby, it was just the thought you've been thinking a lot about therapy related stuff and 

Olivia: yeah,

Zach: working on

yourself. I 

Olivia: entry are resonate and they connect, I think. Um,

Victor: they both resonate.

Olivia: yeah. The dormitories entry mostly resonated, I think. But the college entry being about like, issues or situations in your life that you're giving serious thought, um, focused on an issue that is allowing you to improve yourself or benefit in some way. That resonates.

Victor: So, The, uh, dormitory entry 

 It's common problems with others, um, anxieties or ideas that are out in the open. So it's like kind of not having privacy with a problem. People see your problem. Your problem is other people's problem. Um,

Olivia: Let me just think about how I want to [00:25:00] talk about 


Victor: And to be sleeping in a dormitory is specifically inaction or unwillingness to change about one of something like that. Yeah, I

Olivia: yeah, I don't know if it, I don't know if this matters, but I was, I remember I was lying awake. We were in a bed, but I was awake.

Victor: You were staring at me, thinking, This son of a bitch isn't willing to change his problems that other people are aware

Olivia: dead asleep.

Victor: Like, I

Olivia: Um, something that I've been. Thinking about a lot lately and dealing with is, um, feeling socially uncomfortable with myself my whole life I have felt like I had to perform not like anything crazy, but just like I have to really intentionally navigate.

Social situations in a way that is draining and leads me to, like, not really be authentic, um, [00:26:00] around everybody, uh, it's not everyone, but like, in certain situations, I feel like a lot of pressure to, be a certain way and, and, and act a certain way, and, um, that, uh, is difficult, and also I think, you Detracts from my overall happiness.

And so the past like year or so I've really, um, like since I became aware that I do that, I've had a harder time doing it. And so I've felt kind of on display, in a sense, because I'm not able to, like, easily, , control how I present myself to other people. Just the, the awareness of this thing that I do has made it harder for me to do it.

And I think that's good overall, because I don't think I want to be

Victor: be doing that.

Olivia: Um, does that make sense?

Zach: Yeah, do [00:27:00] you feel like that's the inaction, the, the part of the word inaction that you were, like, that was resonating for you?

Olivia: That part doesn't resonate with me, to be honest. Um, it's just the common problems with others. To me, this is like a social problem. It's like, um, I've had a lot of like social anxiety in the past and actually like thinking about college like that was a time where it was really bad because I was around a lot of different people and not just the people I chose to be around.

Like, I

Victor: around. I,

Olivia: to nowadays surround myself with people that I'm comfortable just being myself with, 

you know, in college, it's like, you know, you're not in control of who's around you all the time. So, um, yeah. Anyway, yeah, problems, common problems with others, your problems, anxieties, or ideas are out in the open.

That to me feels like, okay, now I'm not really able to do that as much. And I feel kind of like on display, that's something I'm, I'm struggling with lately, problems that are out in the open [00:28:00] or obvious to others. Like, I feel like, because I can't. . Easily,, put on this mask, you know, for people I'm in a place where it's like, I'm also not totally comfortable just like, well, I'm just going to be myself.

So I feel like really awkward and uncomfortable in those situations where I feel like I can't do that.

I'm in kind of like a middle ground where I'm learning to be more myself and accept myself and like, be comfortable just being who I am around everybody. Um, but I'm not quite able to do that yet. 

Victor: That's something that, um, we really have in common, too. You know, we both, um, have experienced that feeling of, like, feeling stressed out, uh, in most social situations and feeling like, um, we're not able to be here. Authentic, or to be our real selves, and what's so, what's so bizarre about having whatever that is, is like [00:29:00] You don't necessarily Like prefer, you don't prefer like the the version of yourself that it feels like you have to put out there like I like We're comfortable around each other.

We can be ourselves around each other and we like who we are better When we're together then like when we're out trying to like talk to someone we're not comfortable with like I become a version of myself But that I don't particularly like I like I'm kind of like a wooden awkward like, you know what I mean?

Like I'm not actually Relaxed and able to like be real, you know, I don't know. It's just It's it's this weird. It's this weird like self trap that you find yourself locked into where it's like It would be wonderful to just be able to not do that thing, and yet you can't. That's

Olivia: Yeah, and that's like why it, it, it feels like, 

Victor: do.

Olivia: like a maladaption, right? Like it feels like something that developed [00:30:00] wrong or something like a coping mechanism or like something that I learned to do, as a social survival skill that has like gotten me through certain situations, but has also like, taken a toll on me and like, overall not added to my life, you know, because it was formed to make other people more comfortable from my perception, uh, I think I learned at some point that I was weird or bad or not likable.

As a small child, like there were

Victor: a lot

Olivia: lots of situations where like in group settings as a kid, I felt really singled out and like people, um, were put off by me and I didn't have this skill at that point. And I think I learned it to try and fit in and blend in. Um, but yeah, but it's not [00:31:00] authentic and I don't like doing it.

Victor: I think people forget that, like, when, when you're really young, um, when, like, like, elementary school and even before elementary school, there's, like, There's a real strong impulse to, to like, conform, to be normal, to be like everybody else, to not be like, kind of, uh, odd or weird or out there in any way. And like, you can develop all of these kind of fucked up ways to operate that then just become ingrained in you.

And then, down the road, you become, like, an adult, and then life in adult, in adult world is like, Oh, you do get to find people that are like you. You do get to be yourself. There's, like, a whole world where you can, like, connect with people, you know? But, like, by then the damage is already done. Do you, do you relate at all to what we're talking about? Or is this feel like, kind of, like, [00:32:00] you haven't had this same kind of experience? Because I know it's not an everybody thing.

Zach: Um, well, it's interesting because I, , I think that that pressure to conform or to be normal or whatever is pretty universal. Especially if you went to public school, you know,

Victor: mhm.

Zach: um, or any kind of school, , I think that's why, you know, homeschool kids get such a bad rap for being weirdos because they didn't have that. They got to be whoever they wanted from day one. 

Victor: Uh, dependent on the homeschool.

Olivia: Yeah.

Victor: There's some pretty, pretty brutal homeschool situations too.

Zach: sure. Yeah, maybe I should have said whoever their parents wanted them to 

Victor: Yeah, you, you become whoever your mom wants you to be. Or 

Zach: Um, 

Olivia: whoever you want to be if your mom is cool.

Zach: Right, 

Victor: right, right.


Zach: Um, which in any case is probably going to be. Outside of the social norm, but yeah, I just, I think I had a very different relationship with it because I,

I don't know, I like to think I'm like [00:33:00] this rebellious, like contrarian or whatever and have been since day one, this little punk rock rebel kid, but in reality, it's like, well, where does that come from? Like when I really am honest in evaluating What that is, I don't, I think it's much less an innate characteristic and much more of like a much more similar thing, but instead of like

a maladaption with the intent of conforming, it was a maladaption to like, like from an early age, I recognized like, 

I don't think I'm going to be able to like build a successful mask. So instead I'm going to be resentful of, of the, the pressure and I'm going to actively work against it. Um, And that's like, that's not a personality like through negation, you know, like a, that's a maladaption in its own right. And come as come back to, to bite me in numerous ways when I stop and think about it.[00:34:00] 

Victor: And then so often you just end up in a subculture that is itself, like, pushing conformity and like, there's all sorts of weird hierarchies and pressures and like, you know, you're being pushed to conform to an ideal or whatever. There's a lot of different ways that that looks like. It's not just, you know, being, or, you know, being on the football team or whatever.

It's, it's just as much like being the kids that are all dressed in the same, like, like dark clothing, smoking cigarettes behind the school or whatever. That's its own version of that, you know?

Zach: Yeah. Yeah. I think about that a lot in relation, you know, a big theme with, with me throughout the life of the podcast has been like career stuff. And I, I think about that a lot, like where I would. B if I had, if I hadn't like rebelled myself into like into a corner, like actively, tried not to do the safe thing because it was what everyone else praised.

And I was resentful that like, that people [00:35:00] got accolades for playing it safe. So I'm going to go to fucking art school. But then I get to art school and they're like, you know, if you want to make a living, you have to go to Hollywood or New York. And I was like, fuck that. Like, like just rebelling against every.

Every step of the way, um thinking that like, I would be unique and special enough to like carve a completely new path.

Olivia: Hm.

Zach: Um, so yeah, it's like this. I definitely relate to what you're talking about. I think I just had a much different response to it from a young age.

Olivia: uh, I don't know if this is a sort related, but like, an experience that I've had. Is that I, um, when I found myself in different crowds, like, 

Victor: Art,

Olivia: they've ever met, but if I like, and I have other friends, you know, who are, , more like mainstream people.

And when I hang out with those people, I'm a fucking weirdo. Like [00:36:00] I'm the weird artsy kid, like, and I just don't fit in either of those places. And both of them think I'm like, don't belong there. Or like, that's the message that I receive. 

Zach: it. Yeah, 

Olivia: Yeah, but, but it, I've, no, I've, I've been told that too, like, directly.

I've been told that lovingly,

Victor: But, um. Early, early on when we were dating, I, I don't know if a lot of people called you this or it was like one friend and it stuck in your brain, but you said people would call you, uh, Freaky Barbie.

Olivia: someone called me a freaky Barbie,

Victor: But.

Zach: But were they trying to tell you you didn't belong or was that subtext


Olivia: was trying to tell me that, like, uh, outwardly, I look like I might, um, fit into a certain crowd and that that's not accurate if you know me. But yeah, like I, I guess this dream to me, the thing I wanted to come back to though was like this baby said, um, I'm the part of you that hates [00:37:00] people. 

Zach: Right. I wanted to ask about that.

Olivia: Yeah.

Zach: Do you think,

Cause when you first said that I wasn't, I was imagining some like visceral, like real, like misanthropic type hate. But as you went on to talk about your relationship with people at large and yourself and your coping mechanisms, do you feel like that in that context, hate means much more like, I don't know, , like I hate to go to the gym.

Like it's nothing personal against people. It's just so much work. And it's like, oh,

Olivia: No, I think that it is like, um, I think that it, it's talking about a self loathing tendency. Um, and I have found myself like, I think people in general, uh, do this, that when somebody else does something that like rubs you the wrong way, or really like, you're like, I hate that. I don't like that that person did that or whatever.

Like a lot of the [00:38:00] time it's more a reflection of your own relationship with yourself. Um, like when somebody is triggering you, it's like, they're often doing something that like. You, see in yourself that you don't like. And I think that that is what this baby was talking about. Um, yeah.

I think it was talking about my like skewed relationship that I have with myself, how that leaks into my perception of other people. And the message that I received was to like, have more compassion for myself. And I will have more compassion for other people.

Victor: . Not woo, I don't know what you'd call it, you know? But like, yeah, that message is all over the place when you're looking for like, life improvement. Like, like, how do I become a better person? Kind of stuff. Um, and, and I know it sounds like [00:39:00] I have more to say, but that's all I guess I have to say

Olivia: It's really, like, it's a psychology thing, though, you know? Like, it's not woo, it's projection, right? Like,

Victor: Right, yeah, you know, it's like self loathing really holds you back, I think, you know, like, like something that was like, would plague me through my 20s is like operating from a place of self loathing and bringing that into my interactions with people. And when you bring that energy into meeting new people or being around anybody.

Like it drags down the whole experience, you know, it's a huge barrier between you and like making like authentic connections with people. And then like my way of trying to deal with that was to be like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna swallow down my self loathing, pretend it's not there, and try and do like, like a bold, like a bold social [00:40:00] move that I wouldn't normally do, because I hate myself, and like, then you do that and you come off like a fucking insane person when you're trying to interact with somebody because it's like so inauthentic to who you actually are, you're just trying, you're trying to like

Olivia: Bypass

Victor: Yeah, you haven't actually dealt with your shit.

And so like, I don't know. I, I, I feel like I've gotten better about that, but it's still like o once some of this, like, like you said, maladaptive, like malformed, like once you've like developed emotionally and kind of a misshapen way, it takes like a lot of time and energy to just kinda like, like move that like just a degree in a healthier direction.


 Uh, choosing to be around people that, like, Are safe for you to be yourself around is like very healing, uh, and then the, like, the next step is to then be like, okay, I'm going to bring this [00:41:00] to my interactions with everybody. Um, like learning that, like, that person, that authentic version of yourself is likable and you don't need to, um, change them 

Olivia: it's just crazy that, like, you can have that intention and then, like, the second you're around people that, like, trigger that, that maladaptive part of you, it's like, there's not, you're not driving the ship, you know?

Victor: That comes up in dating for people all the time. It's like you're chugging along, like, Maybe you're, maybe you're doing okay, Maybe you're making good choices or better choices, And then you run into a person that like, Perfectly triggers like, this fucked up thing in you, That's like trying to heal some weird childhood wound, It's like Oh, this person can, like, play the role of, like, Oh, maybe I can convince my mom to love me.

Okay, let's see how this goes. And then you can ruin your life and [00:42:00] waste years of your life. Just, like, never had a chance of being a healthy thing. It's just, like, a person, like, you will, you will, like, kind of catch each other's orbits. And be like, oh, we could just fuck up each other's lives. Just like, working out old shit forever and never getting through it.

Um, so don't do that, 


Zach: not relatable at all. I don't know what you're talking about.

Olivia: my therapist, um, she used to say this a lot, but, like, water seeks its own level. So, like, When you are surrounding yourself with people or dating or whatever in friendships You're only ever gonna end up with people that are as fucked up as you are Like you're never gonna date someone who's like Got way more baggage or who has got it way more figured out than you like you always just end up with somebody like who's right at your level and You're not gonna like fix each other one person is not gonna help another person up or vice versa Versa, maybe you can drag someone down.

I don't know. I think you just don't end [00:43:00] up, you don't end up with somebody who's like, doesn't have it figured out as much as you do. Um, Yeah.

Victor: respect to not get sucked into years of some shit like that, you would say, oh, this person isn't treating me well, or, oh, this isn't working out. I'm gonna leave and find someone else I'm more compatible with. If you're staying, , Something in you feels like there's still something you can get out of this, even when it's just getting worse and worse and worse.

Zach: Or for some reason you're scared to leave. Which

Victor: is just, yeah, it's, it's, it's all coming from the same fucked up place.

Olivia: Yeah.

Victor: So, uh, bathtubs.

Olivia: yeah, bathtubs. , 

Victor: To dream of a bathtub represents a positive or comfortable mindset as you get rid of a problem. Feeling good or enjoying yourself as negativity or conflict is dealt with. Feeling good about [00:44:00] situations where you are effectively controlling problems, effectively managing emotions. Alternatively, a bathtub may reflect self reflection over issues or problems you have as they are being cleansed from your life.

Olivia: that feels right. It feels like I'm in, like, that period right now. Um.

Victor: it's something we've been talking about a lot.

Olivia: Right. And that, that baby is like, it literally said, I'm the part of you that hates people or hates yourself. And it's, and it was what was in the bathtub and I put it back in the bathtub too, which like at the time felt like kind of weird.

Like, cause it didn't seem like the place for this. It was like writhing around and like totally unable to like do anything, but it was like sloshing around in this bathtub. Like it didn't seem like a good place for, uh, like that, you know,

Victor: Um, but

Olivia: I put it back in there and I said, it's going to be okay.

It's like, it's not done being cleansed [00:45:00] or reflected on yet, but it's on its way and that's what is happening.

Victor: like

Zach: And then you went back to bed and told Victor exactly what the dream meant before you even woke up.

Olivia: Yeah. I feel like that really covers it. 

Victor: Yeah, we cracked it, we did it.

Olivia: I mean, it kind of came like cracked, but it was interesting to talk about with you guys.

Victor: was cracked and we ate the nut, and it was delicious, 

Zach: Mm hmm. 

Victor: shell down. . Thinking of pistachios, that's what I'm thinking about.

Zach: Stash yields are healthy.

Victor: Is it cool if I eat pistachios on 

air? Is 

Zach: If you have people love 

Victor: snack?

Zach: I think that would be very divisive. The ASMR crowd would love it.

Victor: Hey, have you guys listened to the new Crying Baby and Pistachios pod?

Zach: They try to get to the bottom of deep psychological concepts doing very distracting things.

Zach's Dream


Zach: I had an idea for a podcast that is like a Frazier watch along.

Olivia: we've been watching 


Zach: Oh, really? 

Victor: Frasier, yeah.

Zach: Nice. So we start an episode of Frasier at the beginning of the podcast, but then we don't talk about it. We attempt to talk about current events, but it's clear that we're very distracted.

Victor: That's 

Zach: And if you start Frasier at the same time as us, you can see what we're distracted by.

Victor: Me and my buddy, uh, were always saying that we should start a pod called, uh, Harmontown Town, [00:47:00] where we listen to episodes of Harmontown and discuss it. I 

Zach: I would 

Olivia: You and Zach should do that.

Zach: I was obsessed with Harmontown.

Victor: yeah, Harmontown got me through a very bad job. And, yeah, good stuff. I, I had a, my first job out of college was working in, like, an e juice, uh, like, filling assembly line. So basically, like, you would set you would stand there for ten hours a day and you would squeeze liquid from big bottles into little bottles.

Olivia: yourself carpal

Victor: Yeah, and give yourself carpal tunnel, and I did that for a couple of months, and Harmontown was A saving grace while I was doing this incredibly mindless job.

Olivia: Do you ever get nicotine juice on you and like, 

Victor: you know the answer to that question, right? Are you asking because is this like a, like a TV interview where like you're prompting me to tell the story? 

Yeah, no, I, uh,

Zach: I heard you may have got nicotine juice on your hands.

Victor: yeah. Is it apropos of nothing, Victor, did you ever get nicotine juice on [00:48:00] you?

Olivia: I'm just surprised that you worked there and like, and were probably like on a nicotine high the whole time, but like, didn't ever vape,

Victor: It was probably just like in the air. It was crazy because people would be like. There'd be like, inside, and it was like, totally fine to vape inside while you were working. Uh, but then, they would all go out and smoke on their cigarette breaks. Like.

Olivia: Here's the thing. Victor never was addicted to vaping, but The year after he quit that job, he was really sick and depressed. Uh I don't

Victor: I'm just in a bad mood all the time and I don't know why and I really want to go back to work at the fake place.

Zach: I, I, I, I kind of want that job. You just vape and listen to podcasts all day?

Victor: You know, there are worse jobs.

Zach: Yeah, I used to have a job where I could listen to, to podcasts. There was no, like, customer interaction or anything. and I would for the entire, like, nine hour shift.[00:49:00] 

Victor: Yeah,

that's my 


Zach: and like, a buddy recommended me a podcast one time. Uh, and I listened to it for, like, three shifts. You know. And I came back to him and I was like, Ah, I don't know if I really cared for it.

It got kind of grating after a while. And he's like, how many episodes did you give it? And I was like, well, like 27 hours worth. And he's like, of course it was grating. Anything's grating after that long, you psycho.

Olivia: Do you want to tell us your lucid dream?

Zach: Yeah, so, interestingly enough, it also started at college.

Olivia: All right.

Victor: with a baby in a bathtub.

Zach: no, it got very different after that. But it was like, it started outside of like a, um, frat house. There was like a party going on in a, in a College frat house. And I was standing out front with Shelby and I was this whole dream. It was weird.

Cause I was like lucid in that I was aware I was having a dream, but I had no like control over anything. I tried very briefly up [00:50:00] top. Cause I, I was also like misinformed. I thought like, I knew that Shelby was also lucid dreaming. Like I was sure that like everyone else was a character, but she was the actual Shelby dreaming with me.

And I was like. We could totally fly right now, and we like tried, but we could only like really kind of float a little bit, like a few feet off the ground, which is common for me. Every time I try to like lucid fly in a dream, I just kind of float like a half deflated balloon. But I kind of, that was like the beginning, and then it transitioned into, I forget what the transition was, but I was in Shelby's mom's minivan, and I'm still like aware that I'm dreaming. And I, I feel like I can drive the minivan through different dreams. Um,

Victor: That's awesome.

Zach: yeah, so I'm driving along. It feels like I'm in a big warehouse that like a soundstage for a movie. It is like aquatic themed. So there's big wooden set pieces that are shaped like [00:51:00] waves. but I'm driving along concrete. It's like in a warehouse or like an airplane hanger. Uh, but everything is like beach themed. The set deck is beach themed. And I drive past my buddy's ex that I haven't seen in years. And she's wearing like a very conservative, like 1950s, like one piece bathing suit and like big goofy sunglasses.

And she's sitting on a surfboard and she just waves as I drive past her. And then I go into a parking garage and that's all filled with like, fog, like, um, what does that call? Like a smoke machine. and in my head I'm like, Oh, this is the transition. Like, this is how I get from one dream to the others.

I drive through this fog. Um, so I'm not worried. There's like people in the parking garage, but I'm not worried about hitting them because I know they're not real and I'm about to like transition. And then I sort of like smash cut, like transit, like hard transition to the van is now parked in a city.

And I'm surrounded by cops, like dream,

like dream police, and they're all like 300 pounds. So like these [00:52:00] big, big, rotund cops, and they're like, detaining me in the backseat while one of them is in the driver's seat, like completely shirtless and covered in engine grease. And I'm like, I remember being 

Zach: very concerned about Shelby's mom's van getting

covered in this guy's,

you know, sweat and grease while he's like taking apart the like steering column.

Uh, I don't know what he's looking for, but like. It has, it has the feel of like a drug bust or something. It wasn't supposed to be driving through dreams and now they're looking for contraband, in the dashboard. And I tell one of the cops that I have to pee, but they won't let me out. And so I like try to pee my pants.

Cause I'm like, I just don't like, this is going to take hours and I, I just want to be more, I'd rather have wet pants than have to pee, but so I try to pee my pants and I can't. And then I'm like, that's probably for the best, because I'd probably pee in real [00:53:00] life if I succeeded, um, and wet the bed. And sure enough, a second later I woke up, and I had to pee for real.

And I was like, oh, dodged a bullet. And then I went up and

used the bathroom, like a, like a grown up.

Victor: that felt like it was gonna end with like, and then I woke up in jail and I realized that I had like taken Ambien and then stayed up and

Zach: And I had peed my pants,

Victor: and a lot of things happened

Olivia: feel like, like symbol wise, driving, um, and then there was, you said there was like a beach theme.

Zach: it was weird, because it was like a soundstage, decorated to

be like a beach, like with big wooden waves.

The minivan.

The minivan was how I was transitioning through dreams.

Olivia: I wanted to ask you, um, your friend's ex who you haven't seen in years. That's like an interesting person to randomly 


Zach: Yeah, I felt very random. 

Olivia: what are [00:54:00] your feelings about that person?

Zach: Uh,

Olivia: was your understanding of their relationship or?


Zach: She, we, we were pals. Uh, she dated my, one of my best friends for like seven years. and they ended on like, amicable terms. Like, no one did anything wrong. They just, like, sort of had different goals in life. Um. Couldn't reconcile that.

Olivia: Gotcha.

Victor: Bastards. 

Zach: Yeah, I know. 

Victor: mean, yeah.

Zach: So if I saw her now, it would be friendly, you know?

Olivia: Yeah, okay. 

Victor: Okay, so. Driving, to dream of driving a vehicle, represents full control of decision making or the direction the situation you are experiencing is taking.

Controlling or navigating the direction in life you are headed, increased feelings of controlling outcomes, or your destiny. Whoever is driving reflects the quality or aspect of yourself that is influencing your current path. If you are driving and can't see the road ahead, it's a sign that you do not know where you are heading in life or don't know what to expect in the near [00:55:00] future. There's driving too fast, there's driving at night, there's blocked or obstructed view, poor controls, spinning out of control, big bulky vehicle. Would van be big bulky vehicle?

Zach: Yeah, kinda. 

Olivia: Did it feel like a big bulky vehicle? When you were driving.

Zach: Yeah, I mean it is, it felt like the, like I was driving the van.

Victor: Okay, yeah. Um, so to dream of driving big or bulky vehicles may reflect sensitive decision making about very important or awkward situations. May also reflect problems with your ability to physically move around. Pregnant women, people with weight gain, or leg casts often have these types of dreams.

Olivia: casts.

Zach: That part doesn't resonate, but, it's interesting that it said having to be like, delicate, or careful, or whatever it said. And I was just sort of recklessly driving through this fog. Which, you know, also falls under obstructed vision.

Olivia: Oh,

Victor: Sure, yeah. Oh, fog's a good [00:56:00] symbol, yeah.

 Uh, if your view is blocked or obstructed while you're driving, it reflects distractions or setbacks. If you're driving down a curvy road, it represents difficulties in achieving your goals due to a lack of stability or certainty.

You may even feel that your direction in life never stays the same.

Olivia: That's driving with an

Victor: With a blocked or obstructed view. Yeah.

And then fog is to dream of, uh, fog represents confusion, uncertainty, or trouble figuring something out. Mystery. Secrecy. Or mixed signals. 

You were going to say 

Zach: Yeah, that all resonates. 

Victor: Mmm. How does it 

Zach: having to come back to Colorado and sort of a little bit start over on where I'm going in life. You know, I was

on this one 

trajectory in California, and then there was sort of a hard reset with, with

everything. Having to come back here. But it makes sense to me that I would be like, not concerned.

You know, I was just, I was driving into this fog, like not worried that anything bad was going to happen, that I was going to go to another dream. You know, this was, it was going to teleport me. I didn't know where, but I wasn't [00:57:00] concerned about it. Cause you know where I am in, in real life is uncertain, but it's like very stable and feel safe.

And like, I feel like I have the luxury of figuring it out more than I have in the last few years.

Olivia: Yeah.

Zach: Um,

Olivia: This sentence is so on point with that. It says a difficult challenge in your life where it's hard to know what is right or difficult to know where you are in relation to your goals.

Zach: yeah, yeah. So it's.

It's very open ended and very unclear where I'm going, but it pretty accurately reflects my feelings about it. Like, I feel unsure, but like, pretty confident and not very scared or anxious about it. Although there's clearly some underlying anxiety because I ended up getting pulled over by the Dream Police and having my 

Victor: Hmm. 

Zach: searched.

But I feel like that's probably reflective of You know, the part of me that caught myself being unconcerned within the dream was

like, but wait, what if, [00:58:00] what if this all blows up in your face? And some big fat guy takes your car apart.

Olivia: Yeah. 


Zach: That was 

Olivia: Yeah.

Victor: symbolism is like that you are in control. That you are steering the ship, right? Like, you're, you're choosing the direction to go, um, and you are driving, and you are confident when you're driving, and like, if you wanted to be hokey about it, you could say, like, you are literally, like, driving yourself to a new dream, you know?

So, you had your old dream, and you are finding the new dream, and it's a little foggy, where that, what that dream's gonna be when you get there, you know, and you're maybe worried about some trouble, but, like, you're finding the new thing that you want.

Zach: yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting that I was driving through a soundstage of a beach. Cause I feel like when I was in LA, I was dreaming about beaches and, and, um, oceans a lot

Victor: Yeah. And like 

Zach: that came up 

Victor: stage. [00:59:00] Those are LA concepts, 

Zach: Soundstages and beaches. Yeah, but it was always like a real ocean when we were doing those episodes And

we talked a lot about what that means and now I'm driving through a fake Ocean, it's almost like I was Thinking like oh, I guess that wasn't the path.

That was just it just looked like it

Victor: Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting.

Olivia: Let's hear beach. Yeah,

Victor: are all about transitions, right. Uh, to dream of the beach represents a time in your life when you are confronting negativity or facing uncertainty. It may also represent a transition from a familiar setting to an unfamiliar one, confronting a current difficulty, confronting a hard reality after first believing you wouldn't have to negatively dreaming of the beach may be a sign that you were, uh, a.

That you're confronting a serious crisis moment in your life. Possibly a sign that you are not doing enough to take a serious problem or crisis seriously enough. But yeah, transition, like, change, uncertainty. Like, you know, [01:00:00] reality pivots, you know,

Zach: Yeah, that makes sense. And I yeah, I remember talking about a lot of that stuff When I was dreaming about real oceans

Victor: would you say like a movie studio would be the closest thing to a soundstage?

Zach: Yeah, Yeah, 

Victor: So it says,

Zach: soundstage would be

part of a movie studio. 

Victor: To dream of a movie studio represents life situations where you are seriously or professionally Preparing for something to be experienced in a certain way Preparing for someone else to experience something Thinking of every detail required to make a specific type of experience happen.

A big event where you want people involved doing their part. Feeling that everyone has to do their part until a situation is over to make an event or experience happen exactly as planned. Negatively a movie studio may reflect practicing lies or deception to make someone else experience something.

Preparing a dishonest, scary, or criminal experience.

Zach: No,

the first part of that resonated perfectly with, was where I was at when I was in Los [01:01:00] Angeles, like a lot of setting up to, to accomplish certain things, but also having a lot of it in the hands of other people. I was kind of fingers crossed a lot of time, a lot of

the time, cause there isn't like. There's only so much you can do. And then when you're, you know, putting your eggs in a basket that also rely on luck and other people having luck.

That's, yeah, that's very much where I was at. Not that long ago.

Victor: Yeah.

Olivia: It just really makes sense that this is what you're dreaming about right now, you know?

Victor: Definitely. You're in a big time of transition.

Zach: Yeah,

that's funny. I was, as I was telling that this dream, I was thinking like, I wish I had someone in the dream, like explain the meaning like in Olivia's, 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Zach: but it's actually pretty quickly accessible.

Olivia: Yeah, it, at first it seemed kind of just like a little all over the place, but it really does seem like it's, you're going from one dream to the next and, and you're not really sure where, where it's going to take you, but,

Victor: Greasy cop turns back, and he's like, I'm your [01:02:00] fear of failure!

Zach: Heh heh

Victor: up now, Zach! 


Zach: You have to pee for 

Olivia: piss your 

Zach: Heh heh 

Victor: back when 

Zach: cop entry, or police, entry pulled up?

Victor: Yeah, yeah, one sec. Okay, let's see. To dream of police means they know what you did. They 

Zach: Oh shit. 

Victor: They're coming for you. Look behind you. No, uh, 

Zach: It's still the man with the 

Victor: a Hehehehe It was a cat butt the whole time. Uh, to dream of a police officer represents discipline, intervention, and enforcement of behavior.

Rules or structure, feelings about changes being forced on you or others, a need to restore sanity, rationality, or justice to a situation, a need for fairness, order, or respect for adherence, rules, feeling of being in trouble for not behaving or staying disciplined, maintaining order and safety in your life, the enforcement of boundaries, or the protection of your own values and principles. There's [01:03:00] positive police. There's negative police. I wonder if there's greasy 


Zach: seat police.

Olivia: Police corruption.

Victor: corruption, female police.

Zach: No.

Victor: Um,

Olivia: Spiritually policed.

Victor: Spiritually, police in a dream may reflect feelings about your life being controlled or guided by God. Feeling that God is forcing you to change, or intervening to punish bad people with a life lesson. running away from police and being arrested by police. Which one feels more?

Zach: was kind of

Victor: To dream of being arrested by police represents being held accountable for your actions or that discipline is being enforced upon you. No fucking shit, Dream Bible.

Zach: Yeah, it's all entries kind of like everything that police could possibly mean in real life or

in a dream 

Victor: Yeah. It may also symbolize a situation in which you are forced to confront your issues or face the consequences of your decisions. This dream can signify an acknowledgment that you need to make changes or take responsibility for your behavior, habits, or life choices. [01:04:00] Right,

Zach: yeah, I have I did talk last time about Uh about being sober now that's coincided with this new chapter

Um, so some of that stuff resonated Yeah, and some of the other stuff You know, felt like it could be about, yeah. The fear of not knowing exactly where I'm going, and how, and

I don't know, that's, it's such a literal force that like if the van is the metaphor you're using to to move through this fog, through this like unclear period of time, like police are a very apt metaphor for like a thing that could stop you 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Zach: tell you you're doing it wrong.

Victor: we didn't really catch up, like, we didn't hear, like, kind of what's going on. Last time we talked it sounded like you were seriously considering taking a job, like, not a dream job, but like, just a job job, like, did you end up [01:05:00] doing that, or what happened there?

Zach: Yeah, yeah, I mean. Training for that right now.

Victor: Gotcha. 


Zach: Yeah, it's just, just a job job, but

Victor: are you feeling about it?

Zach: I'm not super excited,

Victor: For sure. For sure. 

Zach: but you know, it, it pays really well and so,

you know, best case scenario, I'll, I'll be able to figure out what is next after that. Like what's really next

in a more permanent sense. While doing that worst case scenario, like I'm a little bit worried. It's going to take over my life and I won't have time to figure out the next step.

Victor: Yeah.

Zach: But worst case scenario, if I just stick with it for a little while, I have a lot more money than I did before. And that opens up a lot of, a lot of doors. And I have that much more time to think about what I'm really doing.

Victor: Yeah. That's, I mean, that's what I was going to say is like, if you can, if you can save some and like bank, some money that could, that could help you leap into the [01:06:00] next thing, you know, when you're not just like drowning, trying to stay 


Zach: even if I had that money right this second, I'm not a hundred percent sure what would be the best way to. invest in it, whether that's like going back to school for like, like a 12 month certificate for something or, or what have you.

Victor: all on black baby, 

Zach: a small business loan. 

Victor: big spin, you know, double 

your money. 

Zach: Oh, yeah, there we go. And back in a state where sports gambling is legal.

Victor: Hey, there you go.

Zach: But yeah, definitely feel like it could the cops could could have to do with the sobriety thing because 

Victor: Hmm.

Zach: Which is also like part and parcel of, of just being more accountable in general. Like I'm in a family setting. I'm with Shelby's family, uh, and clear headed all the time. And then making decisions.


I don't know how to explain it. It's, it's not a vacuum where it's just me anymore. And all my decisions only affect me and my survival.

Um, it is still about that, but I'm [01:07:00] like taking another person along with me. And then I'm more concerned about making decisions in a healthy way. You know?

Olivia: Yeah.

Victor: I think ultimately that is a better place to be, you know, um, the rewards are much richer, you know, when you're living your life, um, in part for others, you know,

Olivia: Yeah.

Zach: Yeah, because before I would have sacrificed any number of personal comforts to make it on that, like, what I now feel like is a soundstage, that, that beach transition where I was, you know, working towards and waiting for a lot of things to happen in California, I would have sacrificed sleep and, healthy habits and, uh, a comfortable living situation with, with it when it's just me.

Um, yeah, The cops are reflective of that, the end game of that or the, the logical conclusion of that. And me putting pressure on myself to not [01:08:00] behave that way anymore. It's a, to be more, um, holistic in my pursuit of career goals, 

Victor: I know that you're going to find something that you love and that's meaningful to you, you know, maybe that's dealing drugs, you know, maybe that's, 

Zach: civil war, reenactment 

Victor: threatening local businesses. Uh, I don't know, sticking up convenience stores. Yeah, you know, blackmailing local politicians.

But I know you're gonna find something that really means a lot to you. You know, you're gonna run that 

Zach: Yeah, it doesn't have to be so, uh, Single minded and all encompassing. As it

had been before. 

Victor: that's a good place to be. I, I feel like, you know We're obviously a lot busier than we were, um, since Violet arrived, but I, I feel like I've been, I've, I've been even better about, like, making time to, like, be, happy and present [01:09:00] and, like, doing th I've been able to do, like, some self care stuff that, like, I was too in my head to allow myself to do before.

It's like I have less time than we've had, uh, the whole time we've been together, but the psychological barriers have fallen a bit between me and doing things that feel good for me, like working out and reading and like, you know, taking some pressure off myself with some stuff that like, I, you know, I'm in a better place even though I have more responsibility than ever, you know,

Zach: Mm hmm. Also, this just hit me. The first part of that dream where Shelby and I are outside the frat house. And I'm like, we can fly, and we can't really fly. That did feel like, uh, chronologically. Coming before the, like, leaving soundstage. Makes sense, because when she tried to move to LA, Uh, there was this feeling of like, cause I was barely surviving and affording my little corner of LA by myself.

But then

trying to do it with her there, you know, we're, we were trying to find a place that was [01:10:00] more comfortable than the rat trap I lived in. Uh, she was having a hard time with the job market. It just felt like, like we were outside the party trying, trying to get in. And then I was like, well, we don't have to, we can just fly.

We're lucid, we're in control.

Olivia: Yeah. 

Zach: Uh, and then we couldn't really fly as long as we were still there and we had to, to get in the van and go. Even though I remember.

Olivia: that really makes 


Zach: Even though I don't, she

wasn't in the van with me, it was her mom's van, so it still felt, like, relevant.

Victor: You feel like we, like we wrapped this one 


Zach: And, yeah, crack two back to back,

Olivia: Two nuts.

Zach: two pistachios,

Victor: Mm hmm. Crackin Crackin 

Zach: crackin 

nuts. and slappin butts. 

Victor: is what I'm doing, I'm patting this baby's butt while we're talking. 


Olivia: Thank you for listening to the Jung and the Restless,

Victor: You can find us on socials at the Jung and the Restless Pod and submit your dreams to the Jung [01:11:00] and the Restless pod. At Gmail,

Zach: And as we always say, the squeaky wheel gets the cop grease.


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