50. The Last Supper

Victor’s been dreaming about dating Olivia as the expectant parents enter the final stretch of Olivia’s pregnancy. Zach lures Victor…...

Victor’s been dreaming about dating Olivia as the expectant parents enter the final stretch of Olivia’s pregnancy. Zach lures Victor into revealing the details of his ongoing passion project, and Victor is unnecessarily embarrassed about it. The Dream Team discusses the nature of failure.

0:00 Intro

4:54 Intrusive Thoughts

8:12 Victor's Dream

59:41 Failure

  About Dream Bible:

Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams.  Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.


Dream Bible entries used in this episode:

Dinner: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=dinner

Waiter: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Waiter

Music: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Music

Restaurant: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Restaurant

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Submit your dreams for interpretation to thejungandtherestlesspod@gmail.com

Episode Transcript

50. The Last Supper

[00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome to the Jung and the restless. I'm 

[00:00:02] Zach: Olivia. I'm Victor and I'm Zach and this is the podcast where the wheels on the bus Ain't going anywhere is it hot in here or am I just pregnant?

[00:00:34] Victor: You're definitely pregnant. don't know that it's hot in here.

[00:00:39] Zach: You're

pregnant and you're just happy to see me.

[00:00:42] Olivia: Are you pregnant or are you just unhappy to see me is more accurate.

[00:00:47] Victor: Is that a fetus in your pocket?

[00:00:49] Zach: Yeah, how is, uh, how is everything going? 

 It always feels like 

[00:00:54] Victor: good. We, we got excited about it. Sorry, go ahead.

[00:00:58] Zach: Oh, it just feels like a silly question. Like, well, I don't know. I guess with pregnancy, like, things could change rapidly in the week.

[00:01:05] Olivia: Oh Yeah, 

[00:01:06] Victor: Yeah, 

[00:01:07] Olivia: sure can.

[00:01:07] Zach: it's

not a silly question. 

[00:01:09] Victor: Yeah. 

[00:01:10] Olivia: Not at all.

[00:01:11] Zach: There's just something about podcasting where you, like, have to pretend like you didn't just talk.

[00:01:17] Victor: Mm-Hmm.

[00:01:19] Zach: Or you have to have an exciting life with lots of updates.

[00:01:22] Olivia: Well, pregnancy is great for that because it's a lot of rapid change.

Latest is... Uh, just pain,

[00:01:30] Victor: Walking is

[00:01:31] Olivia: pain, walking is getting hard, and, uh, oh yeah, we found out that the baby grows exponentially, so like, I don't know, like the other day I was like, oh my god, why am I like, so much bigger today? And it's like, oh, we're in the final stretch.

Baby is about to put on some pounds.

[00:01:56] Zach: that makes sense. I saw, uh, an exhibit in, um, a museum in Chicago, like of, uh, like science and technology or something like that. But they, they,

[00:02:07] Olivia: Fetus is in a jar situation.

[00:02:09] Zach: yeah, well, like mounted on a wall like butterflies, but I, I don't think they were real. I think they were replicas to like, just, just like, demonstrate or exemplify, exhibit if you will. Yeah. The, you know, like it went very, not quite week to week to week, but like. There was a lot of them and you could see like, it looks like a peanut for so long and then all of a sudden it looks like a person 

and then it starts looking more and more like a person, like very quickly.

[00:02:40] Olivia: Yeah, it's pretty weird. I can't believe I'm allowed to do this.

[00:02:44] Victor: Shouldn't be

legal. It 

[00:02:46] Olivia: should need a license, honestly.

[00:02:48] Zach: Yeah. It is a crazy thing to just be able to do. On accident, even in a lot of cases,

[00:02:56] Olivia: I was saying the same thing about driving cars the other day. I was like, you know, if it wasn't really wildly impractical for them to, like, crack down on this, we wouldn't be allowed to, get into a vehicle, drive it around. Like, I shouldn't have this much power.

[00:03:12] Zach: this is because you crashed your car.

[00:03:14] Olivia: I mean, partially, but like, I've had that thought before.

It's like, this is probably the most dangerous thing that anybody does on any given day, but it's like, they don't want to make public transportation accessible.

[00:03:28] Zach: uh, yeah, no, that's part of the reason why public transit is, is so shitty in LA is, I mean, I'm, I'm paraphrasing a podcast that was paraphrasing somebody that said something about something they read here, so this, this could be not true, but it feels very true. That the reason public transportation in Los Angeles is so bad is because of GM and, and, you know, big motor companies lobbying to prevent public transit from, from improving, like lobbying against the DOT.

[00:03:59] Victor: I have heard

that Yeah. 

[00:04:00] Olivia: a lot of sense.

[00:04:02] Zach: And it is, I've had that thought, well, like constantly, like as an intrusive thought while driving on the highway. Well,

cause I, I get really bad highway anxiety and I don't know how to just think of it as normal. Like driving I mean. Like, you look around, like, I can't stop thinking about how the Earth is a foot below me moving 80 miles per hour, and it's being, I'm being propelled forward by like tiny explosions wrapped in two tons of metal and people die, of course they die, from this shit every day all over the place, and people are like, well, I gotta get to work.

[00:04:41] Victor: I will get sucked into that same line of thinking sometimes, but I do think it makes you like a worse driver. Like, I think it's more dangerous to be thinking about that stuff.

[00:04:51] Zach: Yeah, I'm a terrible driver.

[00:04:53] Olivia: I think it's pretty cool. Are are you ever driving and you're just, you just think, if I just

don't turn the wheel right now, I will just go off the cliff.


[00:05:03] Victor: All the time, yeah.

[00:05:05] Olivia: is that?

Why do I have that thought all the 

[00:05:07] Zach: I'm riddled. I'm riddled with intrusive thoughts anyway, but then yeah, when you're putting a situation that is actually potentially dangerous. But, but somehow normal or normalized


[00:05:20] Victor: It's kinda similar to like, uh, when you're playing music. Like if you're on stage playing a song, you get like this This weird meadow awareness of like Wait, I'm doing this. I could stop.

I could just stop.

right now,

[00:05:33] Zach: Yeah. But if you focus on that, then you do end up stopping early.

[00:05:39] Victor: right? It'll, it'll trip you up.

[00:05:40] Zach: Or if you make a mistake, you I've done that like one or two times in the early days where I made a mistake, but because I was thinking of that, like that meta awareness, I did just stop. And then I was like, what do I do now? Say something

you have to like slip into that. That subliminal kind of, acceptance of the situation or, or almost like, yeah, autopilot,

um, in order to, then if you make a mistake, you're just like, whoops. And you keep going, you just like move past it and you don't miss an actual beat. And

[00:06:12] Victor: Yeah, like practicing should be to get you to a place where you can be on autopilot and still get through the song, you know, but then that can, that can get away from you where like You're fully thinking about something else, and then you're not playing well.

[00:06:28] Zach: yeah. My best performances have been like within that meta awareness, but thinking positively.

[00:06:36] Victor: Mm.

[00:06:36] Zach: Like hearing it and being like, this is really good. Like it, like, I guess, I guess I'm just describing, enjoying the moment.

[00:06:41] Victor: Back to the car thing, I think that, um, the best solution for public transportation is we should all be assigned a city bus. It should be free, but we should each be driving one. Haha.

[00:06:56] Zach: are driving our own city bus.

[00:06:57] Victor: Everybody gets a city bus. The people are happy. We're all driving a lot slower, so it's safer, right?

[00:07:05] Zach: There's so much 

[00:07:06] Victor: And, uh, the car companies are happy because they're just churning out buses, you know?

I think it's the real solution.

[00:07:13] Zach: Yeah. Lyft would be Lyft and Uber

[00:07:17] Victor: Mmm.

[00:07:18] Zach: steal that read that that many people in one ride share.

[00:07:22] Victor: Yeah. Yeah, you'd make a mint.

[00:07:24] Olivia: circled back around to just the bus.

[00:07:26] Zach: Yes, but disrupted. Then you can apply for a special license to drive the train.

[00:07:34] Victor: You've circled back around to stack them on top of each other, you know?

[00:07:41] Zach: that's what Musk is working on.

[00:07:44] Victor: Have you had any dreams, Zach? You dreamin You're a dreamin man?

[00:07:59] Zach: Probably, but the last one was me. And then before that it was Victor. And then before that it was me.

[00:08:06] Olivia: Victor had a dream.

[00:08:09] Victor: Yeah. And Olivia had a


[00:08:10] Olivia: did.

[00:08:11] Zach: Yeah.

[00:08:12] Olivia: But... But Victor had a dream. Something that I realize is interesting about this dream that you had is that the last dream you had also was you and I, like, on a date.

[00:08:25] Victor: Hmm.

[00:08:26] Olivia: , I wonder what that means. You're dreaming about that.

[00:08:29] Victor: Maybe because you never take me out anymore. We're just in a rut. Just do the same old thing now. You know, I don't feel special anymore.

[00:08:39] Zach: What a negative spin on dreaming about dating your wife.

[00:08:43] Victor: All right. I mean, let me break out this. I didn't think we'd spend a lot of time on this and she was like, What are you talking

about? You always say 

that. She really yelled 

at me. 

[00:08:57] Olivia: there.

[00:08:58] Victor: started throwing stuff.

[00:08:59] Olivia: Yeah, I punched a hole in the wall.

[00:09:01] Victor: I was really, I was scared. I felt like I had to leave. But I couldn't.

She wouldn't let me. Um,

[00:09:08] Zach: yeah, no, you're, you're stuck now.

[00:09:13] Olivia: I'm like, What the fuck is this?

[00:09:14] Victor: okay. Olivia and I were having a fancy dinner in what felt like a house, but was a restaurant. We got there early. Uh, it was a nice meal. Um, and some, I didn't write these details down, but like, what I remember is like, we were there early, it was like kind of nobody, it was empty ish, but there were other people eating, and I remember there was some situation where like we had to move the tables around. And then I felt like I was sitting like at a,

Like there was,

like a long table and we were each at either end of the long table, like it was like kind of awkward, but, um, but I remember us having a good time, enjoying the food and like it was going well, um, and then, uh, at the end of the meal, Olivia like produced like this gift card or whatever it was like it like and gave it to the waiter And the waiter was like I just want you guys to know that you're doing all this just right You're doing this the right way Cause I guess we'd gotten there at a good

time and we 

showed him the gift card at the right time or whatever,

It's like, he was like, you're nailing it for this first

time, here experience. Um, and then we were going to leave or like we were done. And I think Olivia like went to the bathroom or something. And then I decided there was such a cool restaurant that I wanted to like film it. Um, And, I think it like turned into me making like a music video, like that's what I had in mind for it, was that it was gonna be like a music video. And, so I like took my phone and I tucked it into like the back collar of my shirt, which... I think in reality would just film the back of my head but in my in in the dream

It was like I was like hunched down in a way where I was going to be able to like film Over like the top of my neck as I was running around through this restaurant and so I was running around all through the place I remember like going around a staircase and going back around and going out the front door And I ran out the front door and there was like a ton of people All in like this big like it was like a farmhouse lawn kind of situation Uh, it was like a, like a soft hill, and there was a bunch of people in line to get into the restaurant.

Because we had come early, but all of these people were here for like, kind of the normal, the normal thing. They had to wait to get in. And I was like

running around, I, was like weaving through people and stuff, and then I like stopped and I was fumbling around with my phone trying to watch the video that I had just took, and it was, it was not cooperating the way that phones usually don't cooperate, where it was like, I couldn't quite get the video to play or I'd see like a snippet and I would do something else, um, and then I remember while I was Messing with my phone trying to get the video to play I was like Hearing a song that I really enjoyed or like I was enjoying the song, but it wasn't a real song But it was kind of like it was it kind of felt like

a song by the strokes But

then like the singer had like kind of a gravelly voice to it That's sort of the best way I can describe it,

but I remember like, vibing on this song like at the end of the dream I woke up and I was like, oh, that's a cool song.

[00:12:31] Zach: Do you remember the song in enough detail to like reproduce it?

[00:12:36] Victor: No, it's never coming back.

[00:12:39] Zach: You just recalled, uh, the genre and timbre.

[00:12:44] Victor: Yeah. I just remember enjoying it and knowing it wasn't like a real song.

[00:12:51] Zach: I wish more people out in the world, by the way, would, would do what that server did, which just that like affirmation, just those words of affirmation, just by the way, you're doing great.

[00:13:02] Victor: Yeah, 

I could use that more. 

[00:13:05] Zach: this this the way you interact with society, you're just crushing it.

[00:13:11] Victor: Does anyone like, maybe this is just a me thing, but I do feel like a little bit of an anxiety going to like a restaurant that I've never been to before. Like, I feel like I don't know the lay of the land or like, I don't know, like. What I'm supposed to do, necessarily,

at a new place. Yeah,

[00:13:28] Olivia: yeah. And I always look up the menu ahead of time.

[00:13:31] Victor: Yeah, don't do that.

[00:13:33] Zach: Yeah. I mean, I have to,

[00:13:35] Victor: Sure. 

[00:13:36] Zach: as a vegan, 

[00:13:38] Victor: Right. 

[00:13:39] Zach: to know if I even can. Well, you almost always can eat there, but sometimes it's just like dry toast. Um, but I mean, unless the restaurant is like way out of my wheelhouse, i. e. a nice place, I don't, I don't really get that particular anxiety. I'm usually excited to learn a new place. Um,

[00:14:05] Victor: I feel like I get that less at a nice place. It's like the places where you walk up, where it's like, uh, do I, like, order here at the counter?

Oh, I don't know how to, uh, am I supposed to get, do I

tell you what side? Or, like, you know, that

kind of stuff, like, throws me off. Like, the first time in a new place. I feel like you

kind of have to, there's like a couple different ways that restaurants operate and I

never know what I'm getting into.

[00:14:30] Olivia: There's a whole section on specifically this in the Unmasking Autism book.

[00:14:36] Victor: I

don't know.

what you're talking about.

[00:14:38] Zach: Uh, unless it's, uh, foreign. it, if it's like an ethnic food that I'm not familiar with, especially if it's very authentic and then like run by the, the people from that place, then I get worried about like doing it wrong and make, and like being an ugly American and

like making some kind of cultural faux pas, you know what I mean?

[00:15:06] Victor: yeah.

[00:15:07] Zach: Like, I don't know how dim sum is supposed to work.

[00:15:09] Olivia: It just works.

[00:15:12] Zach: Yeah. I mean, 99 times out of a hundred, it's just. They'll do every, like they take care of it. It's a restaurant. They're serving, you know, it's almost always going to be fine, but there are like these like micro, um,

[00:15:28] Olivia: There is the occasional restaurant disaster. Sometimes everything goes wrong.

[00:15:35] Zach: like the first time I had sushi, I didn't know you were supposed to eat it one bite and I just,

[00:15:42] Victor: Knife and fork at your sushi, like 

cutting it up in a little 

[00:15:46] Zach: I would pick it up with my hand and take a bite out of it.

[00:15:48] Olivia: And then it falls apart. 

[00:15:50] Zach: Yeah.

And I just probably looked like an animal.

[00:15:52] Victor: I gagged the first time I tried sushi. It was like, you know, there's a lot of flavors that you're not expecting if you haven't tried it before, and it was like a big piece.

It was just like my mouth was, like, full

of stuff I wasn't used to, and, yeah. Didn't like it.

[00:16:10] Olivia: Now you're a sushi boy.

[00:16:12] Victor: Yeah, there's like a very particular like on ramp for like kind of boring white guys to get into sushi, right? It's like you kind of like you try your California rolls and then you kind of branch out from there. It's like oh, I like this It's like it's sweet. It's got a little sauce on it, you know, right and then eventually you're yeah, you're on the hard stuff

[00:16:35] Zach: You're doing lines of wasabi.

[00:16:37] Olivia: You're just snorting sashimi.

but yeah, it was interesting that you had, uh, the last dream you had was also like a dinner date.

[00:16:48] Victor: Yeah, that's true I didn't cook this time, but it still felt homey

[00:16:53] Olivia: Yeah. well, I'm gonna read the dinner entry, and we'll, maybe we'll start there.

[00:16:58] Victor: Cool

[00:16:58] Olivia: To dream of eating dinner symbolizes what you are thinking or feeling as you reach the end of a phase or last stage of a project, experiencing the end of a situation. Dinner dreams are common when a death is expected, possibly reflecting feelings about a last opportunity to speak to someone while they're alive.

[00:17:18] Victor: Yeah, that makes sense to me. I mean, it does feel like we're, like, on the edge of, like, a huge transition. Things will never be the same, you


[00:17:27] Olivia: it's coming up quick.

[00:17:28] Victor: Yeah. So, like, us having dinner together is, like, oh, we're moving in, like, the end of this phase. The moving into the next phase of our relationship.

[00:17:37] Olivia: Didn't you say that when you were filming the music video that there was like a, you saw like babies or something?

[00:17:44] Victor: I like half recall, I feel like it was like, um, that thing where things are both simultaneously happening and not happening or whatever, you know, it's like there's some jumbled. Yeah, there was some of that going, but I kind of half remember like maybe running with like, like holding a kid by their hand or something like at least when I was like going outside or something. Yeah.

[00:18:10] Zach: So you're,

[00:18:10] Olivia: Yeah, a lot of my dreams lately have had like, it'll just, there will be like a stroller in the corner or like, there will be like a car seat or something. So I do feel like that's, if that's in your head, then it's probably a clue, right?

[00:18:24] Victor: Yeah That makes sense

[00:18:26] Zach: yeah. That would make sense that you would tie that. I don't understand how the, that, that leap, like as a cultural symbol from dinner to like the

end of an, the end of an era, yeah, especially death. Um, like that's sometimes the dream Bible is like, it feels very one to one like ice means you're frozen, you know, like

stagnation, stillness.

[00:18:52] Olivia: Well, but 

[00:18:52] Zach: But sometimes 


oh, just sometimes it's this like seemingly big leap, but I mean, I guess, you know, you have the last supper and like other deeply embedded cultural ideas about dinner. And I just think it's the last meal in the day.

[00:19:10] Olivia: Yeah, I feel like I see that connection. It's like you're wrapping up. The day it's the last thing you do together sometimes, you know, um,

[00:19:21] Victor: Yeah. Like I think death and change are really connected. And like in tarot, the death card is like, it's mostly about like dramatic change. Big changes are coming, you know, um, not like a literal like, oh, someone's gonna die 'cause you got the death card.

Right? It's like, uh. Death is like a just a form of change or an example of change. So yeah, I don't know this doesn't feel negative necessarily to me the entry even though it talks about death and I didn't feel negative during the dream at any point other than maybe some phone frustration trying to get the video to play.

[00:19:59] Olivia: Yeah, and jumping off of that, the tarot, simple, but like, I remember when we did, we talked about the grim reaper in dream Bible, and that was all about change. It could be death, but it's also mostly change and transition. And that makes sense.


[00:20:17] Zach: that's, I mean, yeah, that's my outlook on, on death and death symbols as a Scorpio,

[00:20:24] Victor: Yeah, I mean, what is death besides, you know, my transition into a corpse?

[00:20:30] Olivia: heh.

[00:20:30] Zach: which feeds the earth, which, you know, creates new life. I, and I. I, I tend

to believe, I tend to believe in, yeah, I guess it depends on, yeah, on on the stipulations in your will. But, uh, I just want to be thrown out a car window, like a banana

peel, like aim for the grass, but, uh, if it ends up in the drainage ditch, whatever,

[00:20:54] Olivia: I have another symbol for you that I think is... Um, a good victor symbol. To dream of a waiter or waitress represents an aspect of your personality that caters to others needs. You are someone else that is doing what someone else asked them to do, doing the work for someone else, or helping when asked.

[00:21:14] Zach: Wait, how's that a victor symbol? I'm just kidding.

[00:21:19] Olivia: Um,

[00:21:20] Victor: no, no tell me

[00:21:22] Olivia: hahaha.

[00:21:23] Zach: Spell it out for us.

[00:21:25] Victor: Yeah, for any of the

new listeners out there.

[00:21:28] Olivia: dream of filming represents feelings about the process of creating an experience that learns every single thing about a person or situation. So that you can remember it. Learning what it's like to experience, understand, or engage with someone or something and remember it later.

You said you were maybe like holding a kid's hand while you were filming?

[00:21:51] Victor: Yeah, it kind of feels like I like I wasn't I wasn't kind of yeah

[00:21:56] Zach: How do you guys feel slash do you even have a stance on the, like the idea of a dream being, Like, it makes sense to me that like a dream could be about two things or tying two things together subconsciously, 

[00:22:09] Victor: Yeah, definitely

[00:22:10] Zach: obviously if, if, uh, everything we're talking about could definitely point to it being a parenthood dream, um, but in the same way that there are like, like you were saying, Olivia, like the stroller in the corner, like, this this kid, like these tangential, sort of like decorations to the dream that like, like, or add, add direction to the dream. There was also like music stuff in there. Like you're trying to film this video and you, you, you heard this, this song that felt that you were vibing with, and you know, your album came out a little bit ago. I don't know how long it like took you to make that or like what. stage you're in creatively now, like if you're working on something new or if you're just like, um, dealing with like the postpartum of having put something out and, and, uh, or if you're, or if you're like having fun performing it, I don't, like, I don't know where you're at with that, but I could, I could see the subconscious, like, like tying those things together.

[00:23:13] Victor: Yeah.

that's interesting. I um, yeah where where i'm at with the music stuff. I haven't been Writing a lot recently i've kind of been like sucked into other stuff that i'm working on and yeah, I I feel like I mean i'm still


Interested and kind of like trying to put my stuff out there a little bit, but definitely


feels like it's wound down I played a few shows, met a few people, did some stuff, and now it's like, yeah, it just kinda feels like we're in the, the last stage before the big change of becoming parents and yes, I don't have, I don't really have like any music aspiration stuff going in my head right now. It feels a little weird. It's weird. It's like. You know, because that is something that was a part of my, like, identity for a long time and it still, it still is, but it's also, like, just not where my head is at, you know? So it's like... It's weird to feel like that part of me is kind of put away for now kind of does that make sense?

[00:24:21] Zach: Yeah, I guess that's what I was trying to explore. There's the, the, like the relationship because you know, the,

[00:24:28] Victor: so that's if that's if there's like a winding down, you know, they're like a like a transitional End of things. Yeah could be like an end or shift Away from the music stuff. Although I don't think I'm ever gonna like stop writing music altogether or anything, you know

[00:24:50] Olivia: Yeah, and like, If you think of that as like part of the last phase, the, the last stage of the project, that that's like one of the aspects of the project that is coming to an end. the next thing that happens is you're kind of engaging with music and maybe you're doing that differently. Um, because you're, you have a kid, you know, there was a kid with you when you were doing that.

And I think that's, I mean, that's something we've talked about that like,

[00:25:23] Victor: I don't,

[00:25:24] Olivia: There, there's going to be a lot of music in our house, you know, we're going to be singing silly songs to this kid all the time, but like the way you engage with music might be, um, different in this new phase,

but it kind of sounds like you're saying that music isn't really on your mind as like a thing that is, is that correct? Like, do you, does that feel like this dream has anything to do with music?

[00:25:53] Victor: A little bit. Yeah, I think at the end the idea I was trying to film a music video like feels like you know, I kind of like Lazily have tried to do like a little bit of like online promotion stuff for the new album. It's not really something that like

[00:26:12] Zach: Tame, 

[00:26:13] Victor: not really in self promotion, you know, so it's like I've tried a little bit, you know, but

[00:26:17] Zach: Tame by Dee Esser, 

[00:26:20] Victor: Thank you.

Thank you But yeah it did feel it kind of at the end at the very end when I was like fumbling with my phone and I Had it in mind that it was a music video and I was like hearing music It did feel kind of like like I was going through the steps of trying to like put out a music promotion thing It kind of feel that way

[00:26:41] Olivia: The music entry is interesting, to dream of hearing music represents a theme to the type of emotions you're feeling, a prevailing mood or atmosphere in some aspect of your life. Ask yourself how the music or musician makes you feel while listening to it.

[00:26:57] Victor: Yeah. Definitely, it was like, enjoyable, it was reminiscent of something, it's kind of hard to pinpoint.

I know I said it was kind of strokes adjacent, like instrumentally, but like, uh,

[00:27:11] Zach: which makes me think like, upbeat, uptempo,

[00:27:14] Victor: Yeah.

yeah, it was 

[00:27:15] Zach: kind of exciting,

[00:27:17] Victor: yeah, but not like too exciting, you know, it's like. Yeah,

[00:27:22] Zach: since you were vibing with it.

[00:27:24] Victor: Yes. Yeah.

[00:27:26] Zach: Um, yeah, and like, if this dream is about like, transitions and phases and, and, and if, like, I don't know if necessarily our subconscious is always trying to tell us something in a dream. I feel like it must be always working through something.

[00:27:43] Olivia: Hmm. 

[00:27:44] Zach: But I guess that's a subtle difference between like working through something and trying to tell you something. Um, but I don't know, potentially, maybe I'm just throwing this out there. You're like working through that, like the, the, the new era that you're entering in both as a father and where you're putting your creative energy on the, you know, post this thing that you just put out.

[00:28:12] Victor: Yeah, you know, it's like as you as you age and just as like life things happen to you, you know, you feel yourself changing as a person and your priorities shifting and The stuff that's important to you gets moved around and like you can, I think you can sit comfortably with some of those changes and at the same time there is like kind of a morning, you know, of like the shift away from like an old self to a new self or something, you know, even if they're good changes, it's, um, it's still, it still feels like, um, you know, yeah. You're moving away. You have to move away from something to move towards something else. That's

[00:28:55] Olivia: And that's something I've been hearing a lot about, like, with parenthood, particularly like new moms. Um, there's kind of a grief aspect of like, oh, wow, like, I am never getting that life back. And like, by the time that I have the freedom to have, like a really independent existence again, like, it's going to be a different life.

Like that life is,

[00:29:23] Victor: over.

[00:29:24] Olivia: And, um, it's not that that's like a bad thing, but you know, there's, it's a huge transition and there's like some grief involved sometimes.

[00:29:35] Zach: And grief is an interesting choice of words there too because like we were just discussing death as a symbol in the dream entry or in the dinner entry where that doesn't necessarily mean like the end period. It's like a transition into it's the end of that day and then there's, there's another day, you know what I mean?

But you still can. Grieve death, even if it's not the end.

[00:30:02] Olivia: Yeah. It says possibly reflecting feelings about a last opportunity to speak to someone while they're alive.

[00:30:09] Victor: Um,

[00:30:10] Olivia: Like, I know you had expressed that's kind of how you felt about, putting out this album too. Like you, Before it came out, like, you kind of did have, like, you had, like, an urge to really, like, put something out and, like, get it out there now, before this big transition, and, like, now that it's out, and, like, Once that was happening, I think you felt really at peace with that and like it's not as huge of a deal as you thought it was going to be, but that does kind of, parallel with that death, part of that entry as like a last opportunity, 

[00:30:44] Zach: Yeah, I don't know, but this didn't feel like, to me, the way you described it didn't sound like a, like a, like a grieving or mourning kind of dream. But like, maybe my, like, my interpretation, uh, not to like, push that on you, but just like throwing ideas out, um,

[00:31:02] Victor: Totally yeah.

[00:31:03] Zach: sounded like, To me, like, like a processing of what you're going to do with that creative inertia next.

[00:31:11] Victor: Hmm. Yeah, that's interesting Yeah, yeah, it does feel like, I don't know, um, this probably, like, this is something that feels like an unhealthy thing that's been in my head for a long time, but I'm like about to be a parent, so I feel like I can, I can vocalize it in a way that maybe I couldn't have before without being taken in a weird way, but like, it feels,

I have always

kind of perceived becoming a parent as like closing a lot of doors, like a lot of stuff is like off the table now, like, you were, like, You are, um, committing to, or like, it's like a shift into, like it, like certain possibilities to me feel closed, um, which I know isn't

true, right?

Like, like a lot of people do a lot, like make great strides in life in all sorts of ways after becoming parents, right? But like, in my

mind, for some reason, it's always felt like, like kind of like. Okay, well you're a parent, so this is who You are, 

You are, you're kinda locked in to

Whoever you are,


you are right

now, forever, right? Um,

I don't know why I feel that way, but 

I, I, feel like, 

[00:32:33] Zach: that part of it's definitely from my observation. It doesn't seem to be. It doesn't seem to be true, but it is a big commitment. I mean, that that much it's true.

[00:32:42] Victor: yeah,

yeah, it just always felt

like, uh,

suddenly, like

like, there's all, there's all this


and once you have

started a family, that all collapses down into, uh, You know, just whatever you're already doing, right? I don't know why I feel that way, but I've always... Just kind of felt that and so 

as someone that as I've expressed it's like there's still there's still areas of my life where I want to change things and make progress and like Accomplish certain things and so I think I have to grapple with that like conflicted within myself, you know of like fighting that Irrationality of that feeling that like becoming a parent It means like the end of, like, some of those dreams or some of those ambitions or whatever.

[00:33:33] Olivia: Yeah, because like, like I was saying a couple of minutes ago, like you, you were talking about music, like you wanted to get it done. Like it was the last opportunity to do it. And like the way you engage with it might be different later, you know, and you might not have as much time for a little while, but like ultimately there's going to be plenty of time for you to do the things, do the things you love and the things you're interested in.

[00:33:59] Victor: And,


[00:34:00] Olivia: I also have that fear of, like, okay, you're gonna be, like, I'm gonna be so overwhelmed with this new reality that Like,

like growth seems difficult, but at the same time, I keep hearing so much about how like parenthood provides so many opportunities for growth and like, you're going to keep growing and changing and almost like more or in ways that you

couldn't have before,

[00:34:32] Zach: like it sounds like it could potentially even like force growth.

[00:34:35] Olivia: I was talking about this

a couple episodes ago, like I'm reading a book that. Talks about it like from the perspective of individuation, right? Like the Jungian concept and it's like it gives you opportunities to either do that or not Like you can it's gonna like there's gonna be so many opportunities to grow and a lot of people

[00:35:00] Victor: um,

[00:35:01] Olivia: Don't engage with them that way and I think that that's maybe sorry.

I'm like so out of breath. Hang on a second

Like, a lot of people are faced with difficult challenges in parenting, and like, um, their kids trigger things for them, and instead of using those as opportunities to grow, they, they, you know, will get triggered and shut down and not. Engage with that process, but it's like

[00:35:28] Zach: And

[00:35:28] Olivia: uniquely

[00:35:30] Zach: and pass those triggers along,

[00:35:32] Olivia: yes, totally. Yeah, but it's like, it's an experience that is like uniquely tailored to provide you with so many opportunities to grow and like,

[00:35:44] Zach: much like our dream.

[00:35:46] Olivia: Right. Exactly.

[00:35:48] Victor: So, I think to

[00:35:49] Olivia: I don't know. I, I think all that's to say that like, you're not going to just be the same guy you are right now in parenthood. You know, you're gonna, I feel like we can't even imagine Transcribed

[00:36:00] Victor: the ways in which things change.

[00:36:03] Zach: You've also expressed a, I don't know if debate is the right word that you've had with yourself about, potentially putting, investing time into, um, you, you, you've been kind of vague about it, so I don't know exactly what you're referring to, but you've talked about, uh, the risk reward ratio of like investing time into something that could maybe like pay off financially. which sounds like it would be like a similar type of creative energy to making music, um, but it would be a thing that like would not only improve your life, but like benefit your family. so that, that, I mean, that could be a thing that you're working through in the stream when I, you know, that's something I thought of when I said, like, maybe this has to do with like, where are you going to put that creative energy next

[00:36:54] Victor: Yeah, like, kind of, feel like for a long time I've been sort of caught between these conflicting impulses where it's like Do I put my energy into like, practical, concrete, kind of like, slogging through, um, places to put my time and energy to like, maybe, like, upgrade my career a little bit, like jump into like a different job that is maybe more of the same, but maybe it pays a little better, or maybe it's like a little more prestigious or whatever, 

 yeah, It's Like,

do I put my, like, I've

got energy. I

want to use my brain. I want to work on stuff and grow stuff. And it's like, do I put my energy into practical place that I know is more likely to have

a payoff, but maybe won't land me in a place where I'm A lot happier than I am now or do I like chase kind of like pie in the sky?

Sort of pursuits where like were I to crack it. I feel like I'd be a lot happier than I would be like moving on to like trying to climb the career ladder 20 or 30 years or whatever

[00:38:23] Zach: Can you talk

about what those pie in the sky pursuits are or would you prefer not to?

[00:38:29] Victor: Uh, I mean, like, I've got like one thing that I'd prefer to not get into just because it's boring, um, but like, I've got one thing I've been working on for a long time that's like kind of a little passion project I'm working on that if I can crack it, could potentially make some money. And it'd be nice for that to work out, but that's probably never going to be like, uh, the only thing I'm doing, kind of 

[00:38:53] Zach: But like what, like what realm is it in? Like,


about like, developing an app you could sell?

[00:38:59] Victor: Um,

I. okay,

So I.

have a little bit of like, uh, a passion

project interest

in like, um, it's called like algorithmic trading as a thing that like, I'm interested in it's, 

it sounds real.

fucking boring, makes me sound like a, like a, like, uh, like a weird finance bro. You know? But like, I, I like am interested in. Uh, like, building, like, little stock, stock predictive models and stuff. Been chugging away at it for forever,

haven't made any goddamn money doing it, but I find it really interesting to, like, try and, it's like AI stuff to try and, like, predict. Like tradable commodities to try and make turn a profit basically

[00:39:47] Zach: Okay, so the reason

[00:39:48] Victor: boring as hell

[00:39:49] Zach: So that's the reason you've been vague about it, not because you had some like, propi proprietary, like, IP that you were afraid of giving away

[00:39:57] Victor: No, it's just gross sounding, you know, I don't know. It's not cool It's not a cool thing to work on

But I find it really. interesting. I

find like, I find like the AI predictive stuff Interesting and it's like the most like one to one way to like use your ability to do that To make money without

Anyone else? being involved

having to talk to

anyone else or deal with anyone else It's just like

if you can figure out a way to do this You can potentially make some money off of it and it's like the projective trying to make a thing.

That's like That works, basically. I find it really interesting. But, like, I don't know. Uh, that's like, something I like to work on. I took a long break from it. I've come back to it recently. I haven't made any money. I probably never will make any money, but it's interesting.

Right? And then like, I took a break from it for a while and it was like, Okay, well what am I going to put my energy into now?

It's still not going to be anything practical. And then I chased, like, you know, half a dozen different ideas for a while, none of which, like, landed in a place where I felt like, okay, I can really take this to the next level where it's like a real project. It's all just, like, shit that I'm

learning, but I'm not,

None of it feels


it's gone in a direction where I'm, like, going to make any money off of anything, right? And, like, I don't know,

then it's like,

oh man.

am I overly focused on, like, trying to find a way to make money? But it's like, in my mind, It's like constantly

chasing time,


then you're burning.

time in the pursuit of time, you know? And then it's like, oh, did I spend all of my

Time. chasing Time. And then the Time. was gone before I got the time, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know. I should probably kill myself. Is that good with you?

Would you be cool with that? 

[00:41:43] Olivia: no, you're not allowed to do 


[00:41:45] Victor: right.

[00:41:45] Olivia: My wife said no

[00:41:47] Victor: All right. Yeah.

[00:41:48] Zach: That is an exhausting

[00:41:50] Victor: it off. Yeah. Happy now, Zach. You know, my, my dirty little secret of the project that I like to work on. 

[00:41:56] Zach: The listeners probably are. Last time

this came up, it was probably killing them. They didn't know what the fuck

you're talking about. And I got to the bottom of it. I

am a dream journalist.

[00:42:08] Victor: Nicely done.

[00:42:08] Zach: But from my perspective, hearing this dream and then you talking about this, and if this dream is about like transitions and family and creative energy, like it, this, it all makes sense to me, but is it resonating with you? As what this dream is potentially about.

[00:42:26] Victor: Yeah, like, I, I don't know if I'm feeling like any kind of, like, rest, I think in my conscious mind, my day to day life, like, yes, there's something real there of like, Like with these projects, right? That's like when I

when I

stopped working on on this like this like stock trading thing I Was I didn't like go like, okay So now I'm gonna buck up and work on like like getting my skills up for for the job market 

What I did

was like, okay, I make a video game.

Can I make a board game? Can I learn how to do that? 

It was all like little like 

things that would be like really

fun to like get Like a side business going that's very independent where I'm involving as few people as possible like

In my in my

little Like dream of like how I


Zach You're always chasing like


that you want to do that would feel good that would like, you know Make you feel like you're not wasting eight hours of your day or whatever like Like and for

you that's like working in podcasting and

working around interesting people and like doing that for


I can work around people.

I can deal with people. I can do all those things I'm like willing to do all those things, but my dream is to never have to talk to anyone ever again To exist it but to be able to be in total isolation if I so choose

[00:43:55] Zach: not 

[00:43:56] Victor: to exist

Like I choose to talk to Olivia I,

I don't I don't want to have any

obligatory relationship in my life whatsoever. I want to, I want to find some way to, to take that out of the equation where I can just do my thing and then talk to the people I want to talk to for fun, socially. So like. Those are the kinds of things that I chase, and like, I could, theoretically, like, put my time and energy into continuing to, to, like, have a corporate job, and do corporate things, and deal with corporate stuff, and continue to do that, and that 

would probably be a better use of my time, but my dream, my dream, sack is to not ever talk to anyone ever again.

[00:44:47] Zach: Yeah, I mean, that could, that could come true in retirement either way.

[00:44:54] Victor: Yeah.

Right, it's like, how fast can I

get to not talking to 

anyone ever again? I'm 

[00:44:59] Olivia: early. That's what's going on.

[00:45:02] Victor: on.

[00:45:04] Zach: But at what point, Olivia, do you know that you're talking to your husband and not an AI that he came up with to avoid talking to people?

[00:45:14] Olivia: You know, I'm never quite sure.

[00:45:15] Victor: mean, it's really interesting.

I could talk about it all day. We could

you guys want to talk about, you guys want to talk about, like, predictive modeling? 

It's Fascinating stuff.

[00:45:27] Zach: Yeah, now, now that I've cracked this can of worms, I might as

[00:45:31] Victor: Yeah.



all I'm going to want to talk about on the podcast.

[00:45:34] Zach: I asked for it.

[00:45:37] Victor: Yeah, but again, like,

all the stuff I'm interested in, like,

anything that's like, like, uh, work independently kind of thing, sounds kind of stupid to, to like, anyone you're talking to about it. So it's like, I don't know, maybe I'm just like... Entertaining myself, giving myself a reason to not do what I need to do and, and buck up and, and, uh, keep going down the, the like, progressive employment path or whatever. I don't know. Probably. Probably I'm wasting my time. So,

you're all right. Everybody out.

there that's thinking it, you're correct,

I'm wasting my time.

[00:46:20] Zach: preemptively defensive,

[00:46:22] Victor: Yeah, and I'm bitter about it too.

[00:46:25] Zach: but to bring it back to the dream.

[00:46:28] Victor: What dream?

[00:46:30] Zach: I mean, do you feel like he answered the question, Olivia, but whether or

[00:46:36] Victor: What was the question? about whether it answered it?

Yeah, I didn't

feel like it was... 

[00:46:41] Zach: with this, this, this dream or like

[00:46:44] Victor: No, the dream felt fine. I was having a good time in the dream.


dream, I was feeling good. about everything. 

I don't 

[00:46:51] Olivia: was the fuck.

[00:46:52] Victor: know Yeah, a lot of my, like, like, like, uh, that's like what, uh, Trashcan Willy Wonka or whatever the fuck.

That's what that was Wonka?

[00:47:06] Zach: redneck 

[00:47:07] Olivia: redneck


[00:47:08] Victor: Yeah.

there you go.

[00:47:09] Zach: can Willy Wonka,

[00:47:10] Victor: I don't know. It was a junkyard.

I don't know.

[00:47:13] Zach: Willy 

[00:47:14] Victor: Like, Oscar the Grouch. 

[00:47:15] Zach: Yeah.

[00:47:16] Victor: Uh,

But yeah,

no this this doesn't like I don't know I in my in my actual life Like how where I'm actually at is like I'm not agonizing over any of that stuff Like I'm I'm like still gonna be working on music and so far as it interests me.

I'm still gonna be working on Any


I feel like, insofar as it interests me, it's gonna slow down for a while when we're like really busy with newborn stuff, but like, ultimately, I'm still gonna be doing the same stuff that I'm doing now, you know? But it does change the equation a little bit of like well Should I keep chasing power in the sky stuff or should I do something else for a while, right?

I don't know

[00:48:05] Olivia: does that feel what, like what this dream is about though?

[00:48:09] Victor: Not really it felt like it feels like the transition part is what's connected

the That's what I was trying to say. It's like I'm not feeling stressed about Like, oh, I have to give up my music stuff, or my, my like, work stuff, or any of that stuff. I don't feel that way. I like, just feel like, what resonates here is the transition part, is like, oh, I feel like I'm coming to the end of a period, and now I'm like, moving into a new phase, and I don't quite know what it's gonna look like, but I felt very positive about everything during the dream.

[00:48:47] Olivia: I'm curious about like, so the waiter, a waiter represents like the part of you that like caters to others. I'm curious what you think about that character telling you that you, that we're doing it all right. Like we're doing, we did the whole thing. We're doing a great job. We got here at the right time.

[00:49:08] Victor: Hmm yeah in the context of the dream it felt like we had Like done everything right as far as like being good like people at the restaurant Does that make sense?

like we were doing 

[00:49:27] Olivia: that you have of 

[00:49:28] Zach: You

[00:49:28] Victor: Yeah 

[00:49:29] Olivia: going to a restaurant and not knowing how things 

[00:49:31] Victor: Right, It felt like yeah, it was like,

it was like you handing over

like the the Little

coupon thing or the Or

like the, the like,

the gift card we had or whatever 

Like Like

you had timed that appropriately, like you were doing

it You the right way.

You know, I don't know.

It's, it is

stupid, but yeah, it felt like,

we had, like,

we had like nailed the

flow of what we were supposed to do going through

the process.

of being at this restaurant. Um,

[00:50:04] Zach: patroned successfully.

[00:50:07] Victor: right. Yeah. Um, as far as what that means, I don't know,

[00:50:13] Olivia: Did we look at restaurant? Yeah. 

[00:50:15] Victor: I'm not sure.

[00:50:15] Olivia: To dream of a restaurant represents feelings about how easy it is to be served particular feelings or experiences in waking life. Specific types of feelings or experiences that you are choosing to have. Consciously making the choice to feel a certain way or to easily have a certain type of experience.

The freedom to have a certain type of experience that is always available to you.

[00:50:40] Victor: I'm not sure I'm getting anything out of that.

[00:50:43] Zach: Yeah. I mean, the, going back to the waiter that, that definitely, um, paints a picture of, of what you, what you were saying when you, a second ago when he said the dream felt like positive, like maybe my whole like theory about this being, um, about the crossroads of what you do with Lake. Creative energy was a tangent. Maybe that, that was a off base or whatever. Um, if, if, if that question like raises different emotions, then, then you had in the dream, um, and if the ones you had in the dream were more positive,

[00:51:24] Victor: Well, I, I 

[00:51:25] Zach: then what you 

[00:51:25] Victor: what resonates for me? What resonates for me is that like we're in a transition like the dinner dreams Representing me feeling like me and Olivia are like on the cusp of a big change resonates, um Me feeling like typically traditionally. I've had a lot of like Stress and anxiety kind of stuff happening in dreams.

Lately, my dreams have been really positive. Um, i'm feeling good in my dreams. Um, And I think that reflects kind of where i'm at where I am. I'm I'm in the best place i've ever been i'm Like other versions of Victor in other circumstances would have been terrified at the prospect of becoming a parent But I where I am doing this with Olivia under this current circumstances I feel great about it, and I don't have any Like I mean obviously there's like little little like practicality stuff Oh, what am I gonna do with like a lack of sleep for a while?

Oh, how we're gonna deal with such as it's not like An existential kind of anxiety like I could have easily had if like things were not so good Right, so it's like I think I'm in a really good place about the changes that are coming

And like, if, if that.

like me trying to trying to like kind of joyfully film like a thing to Like uses like a music video at the end of the dinner Connects into creative pursuits.

I think it connects into how I feel which is that like again like my conception of Parenthood is that you have to stop doing the things that you like to do, but I'm not feeling that way I feel like the stuff that I'm interested in. I'm still very much going to be able to do still don't really think I'm gonna crack being a rock star here at 32 and going into parenthood I don't think that's gonna happen you know, I don't know that I'm gonna succeed at like any of my, any of the stuff that I get interested in and chase for a while or whatever, but, um, but I don't think that becoming a parent changes any of it.

I think that I'm still going to be able to do what I want to do with my life. Um, and I'm like, I'm where I want to be doing what I want to do. Um, I'm not feeling like. If something doesn't work out, then it's like devastating or my life is over like I don't like I don't need The music stuff to like really catch fire for me to be happy.

I'm happy where I am I don't need like my board games to turn into like a big like commercial success or something to be happy I'm happy where I am and I'm working on the stuff that's fun to work on that I'm interested in and

it's okay if it doesn't go anywhere, you 


[00:54:28] Zach: the dinner at this restaurant is like a transitional point, then it sounds like the waiter is this part of you that is looking at the way you're handling it all. You know, on a macro level and being like, Hey, you're doing great, buddy.

[00:54:45] Victor: sure that could be

I mean I am like a like I do kind of default to trying to trying to keep other people happy and trying to trying to Serve I guess And, I don't know, I feel like I am trying to do that to some degree as we, like, do this transition. I think that's what my role is, like, is that Olivia's going through this very difficult thing of, like, being pregnant and soon giving birth and my, my job is to, like, be there and be supportive and be accommodating and be helpful. Which is also, like, for therapy reasons, what I'm most comfortable doing. So, it's all going good.

[00:55:34] Olivia: one other thing about this stream is like how it seemed like we got there early and we're kind of like the first people in our friend group to do this. We like, know a couple of people who have kids, but it's like. Were definitely the first people of the people that we hang out with regularly to do this.

and then it was just interesting that when we were leaving the restaurant, there was like, a lot of people in line for this experience. I'm wondering if that maybe connects to like, there's other people that are kind of on the precipice of a similar

[00:56:14] Zach: It feels like, it feels like an apt metaphor.

[00:56:18] Victor: Yeah, that could be yeah I don't, I don't know that like, that like resonates in my soul or anything, but like I can, I can see how you got there. Yeah,

[00:56:30] Olivia: Well, cool.

[00:56:33] Victor: yeah, I think I'm done and I'm mad.

[00:56:38] Olivia: Victor hates this.

[00:56:39] Victor: Mm hmm.

[00:56:40] Zach: Yeah.

[00:56:41] Olivia: We should make him dream more.

[00:56:43] Victor: No, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna stop mentioning them.

[00:56:47] Zach: Are you legit mad?

[00:56:50] Victor: No, no, I'm not legitimately mad. No,

but It

like, no, it just feels vulnerable to talk about this stuff, especially like the The project stuff just like it just feels very vulnerable because like it it's like Embarrassing to like talk about your failures. It's better like like you're like Like your failed pursuits or whatever.

It's like in the same way that like doing the music stuff is embarrassing To a degree,

right? It's like 

[00:57:20] Zach: can relate to, but the, but the, but the other stuff, I mean,

[00:57:26] Victor: the other stuff's embarrassing in the same way. The music stuff is embarrassing It's

like I here I am Putting my time and energy into something and 

like putting myself out there and none of it works out That's how it feels. It just feels like A long, a long drawn out period of failing at things. And so I, it makes me uncomfortable to talk about,

[00:57:46] Olivia: Yeah, I don't think other people see it that way. Like I see

That you have astounding determination and like, An inexplicable ability to, like, beat your head against the wall to try and figure something out, and I admire that

[00:58:03] Victor: That is my superpower. 

[00:58:04] Olivia: Yeah, I find that very 


and I think other people do too.

And I think you being embarrassed about that and the way you're seeing it is, like, a really skewed

[00:58:16] Zach: When the word

failure, the 

[00:58:17] Olivia: of what...

[00:58:18] Zach: word failure never crossed my mind through this whole

conversation because I don't think that that's, that's not what failure looks like to me. I mean, failure is, I guess when you completely stop and say, I quit or whatever, but, but until that happens, every. Ounce of effort is just part of the process.

[00:58:39] Olivia: Like, honestly, like, quitting doesn't even feel like a failure in my like, unless you're, like, Really fucking up your life

you know,

[00:58:50] Victor: sure like 

[00:58:50] Olivia: it's okay to put things on hold or stop pursuing things. Like, I don't even, I don't even see that as a failure. Like,

[00:58:59] Zach: that's true. Cause I was trying to think of an analog to my own life. Like, like I did stand up comedy for six months before

[00:59:09] Olivia: everyone

[00:59:10] Zach: what

[00:59:11] Olivia: I said, didn't everyone

[00:59:13] Victor: did you live I need to hear this 

[00:59:15] Olivia: no, but everyone who did stand up comedy did it for six months.

[00:59:18] Zach: Every white guy. Um, but, but that was an example of a, like a concrete example of something in my life where I, I, I gave it a college try and then after six months of doing it, I was literally, this was like a golden age in Denver, uh, in the Denver comedy scene, there were literally three open mics every night.

So I did three open mics a night for six months. And progressed, got like better at it. But like over the course of that time also realized it wasn't for me. Um, I see why I understood, I came to understand why I gravitated towards it, what I liked about it, what I got out of it, what I learned from it. And then ultimately concluded it wasn't quite for me. That wasn't really my calling, but I would have only learned that by doing that. So even though I threw in the towel and I said that wasn't it, that's not really a failure, that is how I just defined it. Uh, by trying and quitting, but, but I actually don't consider that I consider that a learning experience and the things that I did learn from it are transferable to the, the things I continue to do today. so


no, to Olivia's point, even quitting isn't really necessarily failure.

[01:00:39] Victor: no, you're you're right like that's I agree with your perception of yourself and that it's like yeah That's it's cool that you

tried to do that and like that you Put yourself out there and like that was a good experience right and it's it's Better that you had tried that then that you just like thought about it and never tried anything, 

[01:01:01] Zach: Right. Cause then I'd still be thinking about it now.

[01:01:03] Victor: yeah, and like for some

Like I.

have a hang up like I have a thing in my head where it's like The things that I've tried that I should see that way Instead because like the equivalent is like

Well, you didn't like,

blow up as a stand up

you're not like,

you weren't like a huge stand up comedian or something.


feel like everything that I try, right? Like I feel like anything I try that doesn't,

land in that place is, like, embarrassing 

to, like for me,

it's like, I, I'm feeling

it as if, like,

I'm, like, that I waste,

that, like.

I'm perceived by others as having wasted my time,

Even though like,

in my heart, I don't feel that way, I

feel the way that like, You're describing but when I talk

about it, I feel like people are like, oh look at this asshole He thought he could do stand up.

What a fucking idiot, you know,

like That's how 

I feel.

[01:02:02] Zach: time

[01:02:04] Victor: Ah, 


[01:02:05] Zach: retrospect them. I, it makes sense. But, but there, there's, there's nothing more like if, if I can really plug into how I felt at the time, which isn't a useful exercise, but every now and then when I'm trying to fall asleep, I get there and I remember what it felt like to be a little bit too drunk on a stage on a Wednesday night in front of people who are actively heckling you because of like your ideas because they just fundamentally, fundamentally disagree with who you are.

[01:02:39] Victor: Yeah, damn.


music is. 

similar. I've 

[01:02:45] Olivia: that way.

[01:02:46] Victor: Yeah, it is like I would be, like, I've, I've, been able to do music and, and do that comfortably ish, but, like, stand up feels like its own kind of, it feels like music is waving your dick around and stand up is showing everyone your asshole. I don't know, it's like They're both real vulnerable.

[01:03:10] Zach: No, that was very apt.

[01:03:12] Olivia: Titties.

[01:03:14] Zach: Music is like waving your dick around and then like, they have to clap to be polite. And then stand up is showing your asshole and being like, please like me. And then they heckle.

[01:03:30] Victor: Yeah. That's, so that's, that's a me thing. That's like a, I project, judgment onto other people when I talk about this stuff. Like, I, like, I can't talk about the stuff I've worked on. Olivia, just like, her eyes got wide and she nodded. Like,

[01:03:49] Olivia: This is the part of you that is like, Oh, sorry, excuse me. And then you turn to me and you're like, was I a huge asshole? Like I'm proud of myself. Yeah, 

[01:03:58] Victor: I've got a persecution complex. 

[01:04:00] Olivia: feel like

[01:04:01] Victor: I think everyone hates me and thinks, uh, that I'm a fuck up.

[01:04:06] Olivia: I'm... I feel like I'm...

[01:04:06] Victor: most likable

[01:04:07] Olivia: better. I feel like I'm... younger.

[01:04:09] Victor: says so. You're fine. I should 

[01:04:13] Zach: You should try stand 

[01:04:14] Victor: that on my forehead. Yeah, I should try stand up. I'm sure people love me. Yeah. Honestly, I think you'd be pretty good at it.

[01:04:24] Zach: Yeah.

[01:04:25] Victor: Well, you love me.

[01:04:26] Zach: It's called exposure therapy. You expose yourself to, you know, increasing amounts of shame.

[01:04:35] Victor: Sure.

[01:04:36] Zach: you go completely numb.

[01:04:37] Victor: Actually, that might be good for you. God, I wish I was numb. I wish I was completely numb. but no, I do feel like we, we got there with the stuff that resonates. Um, yeah, I don't know. It does feel like a, like a positive dream. It feels like it's reflecting back at me that I'm feeling good about everything that's happening. You know, I think that a younger version of myself might have been like freaked out. By these big changes that we're going through but like I'm good with it. I'm excited to be a dad which like 10 years ago I There's no I can't imagine. I would have just been like pissing myself in fear.

[01:05:24] Zach: Yeah,

[01:05:24] Victor: Um But like i'm in a good place for it. I'm in the right place at the right time Uh for this particular baby with this particular person

[01:05:35] Zach: the, the idea in a vacuum is terrifying, but with, yeah.

With the 

[01:05:42] Olivia: gotten increasingly dadlier, like, since we got together.

yeah. I feel like, pretty quickly, honestly. 

[01:05:50] Victor: this is what you wanted.

[01:05:56] Zach: People talk about, you know, women having a biological clock, but there, there does some seem to be something that happens in a man's body to when you, uh, get into early thirties. The other day I was like, I told Shelby, I was going to take a dad nap, which meant that I was going to turn the TV on very loud and, uh, sleep on the couch with the brim of my baseball cap over my eyes and a beer on my chest.

[01:06:24] Victor: Hell 

[01:06:25] Zach: And if she turned the TV off, I was going to wake up and go, I was watching that. And she, she was like, you realize you, you have to have kids for this to be a dad nap. Uh, I was like, I don't know. I just, it lives in my heart. So

[01:06:42] Olivia: Thank you for listening to the Jung and the 

[01:06:46] Victor: restless You can follow us on social media at the Jung and the restless pod And submit your dreams to the Jung and the restless pod at 

[01:06:53] Zach: gmail. And as we always say That means musical comedy is the taint I thought I had to pee real quick and it turned into one of those never ending Austin Powers pees.

[01:07:58] Olivia: I wish I could, like, really pee, you know?

[01:08:01] Zach: Is that a thing with pregnancy?

[01:08:02] Olivia: It's all like, pee pee. Like, just a little pee pee, all the time.

[01:08:06] Zach: So 

you can only 

[01:08:08] Olivia: no taking a piss, you know what I 

[01:08:10] Zach: I was just gonna say, it's all pee

pee, no piss.

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