Zach gives Olivia validation of her Adderall conspiracy theory. Olivia crashes the car, but at least no one got hurt. It’s been all downstairs since Victor fell down the stairs. Zach gets into his backstory with Berklee College of Music, then the Dream Team gets into Victor’s dream about a pasta-obsessed Billy Joel. Sing us a song, you’re the Piano Dan.
Intro 0:00 Olivia crashed the car 3:57 Banjos and Berklee 10:22 Victor's Spaghetti Joel Dream: 18:24 Dream Analysis: 23:04 Outro: 57:56
Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams. Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.
Dream Bible entries used in this episode:
Spaghetti: https://dreambible.com/search.php?q=Spaghetti Dating: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=dates Grocery Store: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Grocery+Store
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48. You're Everywhere Spaghetti Is
[00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome to the Jung and the Restless. I'm Olivia.
[00:00:03] Victor: I'm Victor.
[00:00:04] Zach: And I'm Zach. And this is the podcast where all pasta shapes taste the same. Beautiful.
[00:00:29] Victor: I
[00:00:29] Olivia: find that day one after no sleep, I am like, So on it, those are my best days. Then two days of no sleep, that's bad news. Yeah, I feel physically ill.
[00:00:42] Victor: How you doing after like 20 30 days? That's a good question. We'll
[00:00:45] Olivia: find out
[00:00:47] Zach: Maybe you'd come full circle To the one day. Yeah. I think that's just called mania.
I
[00:00:53] Olivia: think the key is to take like a lot of naps if you can. You're good at those, right? Yeah. We'll see how I am when there's a baby around
[00:01:01] Zach: though. And when can you go back on your Adderall? When you're done breastfeeding? I don't think,
[00:01:08] Olivia: um, there's not a lot of drugs that you can't take while breastfeeding.
Oh, really? Yeah, surprisingly. But, I don't trust that. Actually, now that I say it, that doesn't sound right. I know that that is correct, technically, like medically, there's only a couple of things that they're like, you can't breastfeed on this. Uh. It all goes into your breast milk. So yeah, baby does not need
[00:01:33] Zach: stimulants little Meth in
[00:01:35] Victor: their milk.
It's worth doing a little digging to see like why it's okay, you know,
[00:01:41] Olivia: yeah No, I don't trust
[00:01:44] Victor: it. Yeah. Yeah, you've gotten increasingly distrustful of that kind of thing They're lying to
[00:01:50] Zach: us. I assumed you would have like already had a Time frame like like know exactly when you can get back on here,
[00:01:59] Olivia: dude I don't know what the fuck is going on at any point in time
[00:02:04] Victor: Yeah,
[00:02:04] Zach: you just you seem so Out of sorts when you first went off the Adderall.
[00:02:11] Victor: I'm still out of sorts. She's not any more sorted than she was
[00:02:16] Zach: So you're not just, like, counting down the days when you can I can't count. Well, that's fair. You Yeah, no. You were right, by the way, about, um, Adderall. Shelby, uh, got a refill the other day and was talking to somebody About it not working? Yeah, I think it was the pharmacist she was talking to?
[00:02:38] Olivia: Yeah, dude. They're cutting it with something. Yeah, she
[00:02:41] Zach: She was talking to somebody in the field, uh What'd they say? Did a lot of the off brand, like the generic stuff, um, it, yeah, it, it's, uh, a, a known thing that it wasn't working for a lot of people who were on the generic stuff. I want,
[00:02:56] Olivia: I, we were thinking it's because maybe they were using, like, cheaper filler ingredients
[00:03:02] Victor: or something.
Yeah, it was something. Just couldn't get something that they needed
[00:03:06] Zach: or whatever. Yeah, it was something along those lines that I think maybe caused people to, like, develop a tolerance to it. We came less effective over time or something like that. That
[00:03:14] Olivia: was like literally a year ago is when I started feeling out of sorts.
It was last fall. My Adderall was not, has not worked since then. And then I've just been off it for the
[00:03:25] Zach: last six months. You have been validated. I should have wrote down what Shelby said about it because this was like a couple of weeks ago. It's like
[00:03:33] Victor: breaking news. You tell the people.
[00:03:36] Zach: Yeah, get the name brand, Addy.
[00:03:41] Olivia: It's no joke, like I've been suffering.
[00:03:44] Victor: Yeah, well fuck up your life. People like lose their jobs and shit. It's like a, you need that medication.
[00:03:50] Zach: Yeah, yeah, it does. It sounds like it would be hard to get a lot of types of jobs done without
[00:03:57] Olivia: it. I crashed the car.
[00:04:02] Zach: Sorry, that was just a funny delivery of that sentence. First Victor fell down the stairs, and now
[00:04:11] Victor: Olivia's crashed the car. Mercury's in retrograde. Is it still? I think, I think I saw that's, that's past.
[00:04:17] Olivia: Oh. Maybe it hit us on a delay. Yeah. It actually all started when Victor fell down the stairs. It's been all downstairs from there.
[00:04:30] Zach: You just kicked off a chain of, of bad, like, how did you crash the car? Well,
[00:04:35] Victor: so I
[00:04:35] Olivia: was driving it. And
[00:04:37] Victor: then... I assume you're okay.
[00:04:39] Olivia: I, yeah, I'm fine. But it was weird, like, last week we saw so many car crashes on one day. It was like we saw five car crashes and one of them happened right in front of us. And then...
Um, and then I kept saying, like, I'm, like, all worried about getting a car crash now. Seems like the universe is sending signs about car crashes. And then, um, and then I was driving the car, and then suddenly there was a car right in front of me stopped. It was like my brain fully just farted out. Like, for a second, I couldn't see, I, I don't know, it was like, one minute I was driving, and then the next minute I was crashing.
[00:05:24] Zach: That is how they tend to work. It's
[00:05:26] Olivia: not funny, but like, it was, it was weird. It felt like, I, I don't know, I felt like I had a brain malfunction.
[00:05:35] Zach: Were you in the car, Victor? No,
[00:05:37] Victor: no, you know, I was just at home while she was running to grab lunch But the lunch never came
[00:05:44] Zach: See how you're already affecting him Olivia.
So is the car in the shop or did it how bad was it?
[00:05:51] Victor: Well, it's a problem It's like drivable Um, but the turn signal's out and the, like the driver's side door opens, but everything's all bent outta shape and busted up and beat to shit and yeah, it's not great. So, and it'll be at least a month before I can get it into a shop anywhere, from what I can tell.
[00:06:16] Zach: How fast were you going? I don't know. It sounds like you accordioned the door to be small, like the door hole is now too small for the door. Uh,
[00:06:25] Olivia: just like the frame is like, I don't know, I don't know car
[00:06:29] Victor: parts. Next time, don't even veer, just hit full on with the mid of the bumper into the bumper of the other car.
I don't know. I don't know, but whatever did happen. I
[00:06:42] Olivia: thought I could maybe avoid hitting the car altogether.
[00:06:46] Zach: You tried to veer and that's why you hit like the driver's side.
[00:06:49] Victor: Yeah. Half of it. I mean, the important thing is nobody got hurt. It's like a low impact little collision. Did the cop
[00:06:57] Zach: You're fine.
Did the cops come? Did they find anyone at fault? No,
[00:07:02] Olivia: I was at fault. No, the cops did not come.
[00:07:05] Zach: Yeah. I have not been, you know, to find some fucking wood to knock on. I have not. Cause an accident since 2009
[00:07:12] Olivia: see that's what I was saying. I was talking all about that I was like I used to get into fender benders that hasn't happened in so long
[00:07:21] Victor: Yeah, but I should I better find some wood to knock on but she never did
[00:07:25] Olivia: I did say that didn't I?
[00:07:28] Zach: I hope this fucking IKEA, whatever Plaster wood or whatever this is called, you know, the wood that they recompose it from sawdust I hope this counts as wood because I'm not gonna on it.
[00:07:38] Victor: Mm hmm. There's wood in it I
[00:07:41] Zach: probably have I've been in tons of little fender benders, but none they were my
[00:07:45] Victor: fault live.
You were correct It says here technically mercury and retrograde was from August 23rd until Thursday, September 14th You can feel it Two weeks before and two weeks after. Just like a period. So technically the, the, the feelin it period ends tomorrow. Tomorrow's the last
[00:08:04] Olivia: day. Oh, well, thank fucking God.
[00:08:06] Zach: Just don't leave this room until then.
[00:08:09] Victor: We're
[00:08:09] Olivia: having our baby shower on Sunday. On the first,
[00:08:11] Victor: yeah.
[00:08:12] Zach: Um, I was gonna make some dumb joke, but don't you wanna wait for it to be born to give it a shower? . That's what that joke deserved. Mm,
[00:08:23] Victor: Funny. Yeah. Just
[00:08:24] Zach: acknowledgement. . Yeah. Like a, like a bathing shower.
[00:08:29] Victor: Hmm.
Yes. Very good.
[00:08:32] Zach: Acknowledge what you did there. Yeah. Two, two, uh, car accidents that happened to me that were not my fault happened right after the first time I got a new car. Oh man. Like the first time in my life that I put, put a down payment. On a vehicle and got something from that decade and I immediately get hit twice in a month.
[00:08:53] Victor: Were you nice about it? Or were you mean? Uh,
[00:08:58] Zach: I was nice to the first lady because she was like a single mom. She had like three kids in the car and I was just glad they were okay. I don't know she seemed sweet but the second guy I was really pissed. Cause I I
[00:09:12] Victor: You
[00:09:12] Olivia: should have seen, uh, no, well, when I got into this car wreck, I, like, came out of the car, and this lady was gonna yell at me, but then she saw me, and she, she saw, yeah, she saw that I'm very pregnant, and, and she saw that I was, like, shaking, and she's like, well, don't shake, when are you due?
[00:09:36] Zach: Alright, don't, ugh, I've had that, um, you were talking about, like, how car accidents felt like they were in the air. Like, like the universe was sending you signs. Uh, one time I was driving on the highway and I was listening. to an album on Shuffle, and a song came on about car crashes. And at that moment, an ex girlfriend that I hadn't talked to in a couple years called me to tell me that she just woke up from a dream where I died in a car accident on the highway.
And she was really worried about me, and I immediately pulled over. I was like, I don't think I can finish going where I was going. And I took side roads the rest of the way home. And that
[00:10:17] Olivia: day you cheated fate. No,
[00:10:18] Zach: it's coming back for me, like Final Destination.
[00:10:22] Olivia: Um, I can hear this banjo when I talk, so...
[00:10:27] Victor: Do you wanna play us a lick?
You wanna... Do you wanna lick us a plaque? I was
[00:10:32] Zach: gonna say that, but I didn't think it made sense.
[00:10:35] Victor: It doesn't have to make sense. What do you
[00:10:38] Zach: mean, you can hear your voice reverberating through the drum of the banjo?
[00:10:42] Victor: Yes. You wanna have the rim? Yeah.
[00:10:44] Zach: Okay. Maybe it sounded cool though
Maybe it gave your voice like a cool bluegrass twang
Casually, yeah me too. I have a banjo, but I don't know what I'm doing
[00:11:10] Victor: I've just used him with him. I think I
[00:11:12] Zach: just used it to record like a few banjo parts, but like I had to really I had to really like write out and practice my banjo parts because I'm not just I can't just pick up a banjo and Play it like a guitar.
It has to be very premeditated and rehearsed.
[00:11:31] Victor: Is it it? Okay, I think a ukulele is just the top four strings of a guitar Same way, I can't remember. I know there's the weird Like string halfway up the instrument. That's like kind of throw a wrench in that but is it the banjo? No, I don't
[00:11:50] Olivia: think it is. I think it's an oh, but it's like open tuning though, right?
Like
[00:11:54] Zach: it's a that's how I keep my banjo tune. It's like an open G.
[00:11:58] Victor: Yeah, I think it's maybe the same Well, yeah, maybe I don't know if the standard tuning is different than that or whatever but
[00:12:06] Zach: not sure I know a mandolin is like an upside down guitar. Oh, really? Yeah, it's G d a e. Well
[00:12:13] Olivia: that would fuck with me
[00:12:16] Victor: So you gotta play chords backwards,
[00:12:19] Zach: backwards or upside down, however you wanna look at it. It's
[00:12:21] Victor: awful. It's awful.
[00:12:23] Olivia: Well, if you wait, so if you play it, if you just play it with your other hand though, is it a guitar?
[00:12:29] Zach: Oh, maybe. I never tried that. I also don't think I could do that. I think the pick would. Yeah,
[00:12:33] Olivia: that sounds harder than just learning new
[00:12:34] Zach: chords.
My left hand is really dumb.
[00:12:37] Victor: I like, I am left-handed, but I play the the conventional way. Which I think has really affected my songwriting because I feel like I'm really like chord change focused And then I do like the same three things with my strum pattern all the time Wait, cuz my right hand is too stupid to do anything complicated, but my left hand can be doing like weird chord changes.
[00:12:59] Zach: Yeah Well, that makes sense. I was having to like flip it picture guitar Upside down for me. Yeah, I don't feel like I could strum anything intricate. Yeah.
[00:13:09] Victor: Yeah, I can't and I'm done trying You know, I feel like with artistic stuff It's like you'll go through Like you'll hit a phase where like you're trying to do complicated stuff for the sake of doing complicated stuff And then you'll kind of break through that to like just doing like what you're interested in even if it is Deceptively simple or whatever.
Does that make sense?
[00:13:34] Zach: No, totally that was me in high school. I practiced guitar for like eight hours a day for like two years
[00:13:41] Olivia: Which eight hours
[00:13:43] Zach: As soon as I got home from school until whenever I went to bed. That's insane Yeah, and I could tread for a while. I mean i'm still competent But it's like bodybuilding where if you don't go to the gym You'll still, you know, be like pretty fit, but those muscles will deflate.
I have
[00:14:02] Victor: never shredded in any context. There's no kind of shredding I've ever done. Never shredded on a guitar. I've never been shredded. Never. I've never done any kind of shredding whatsoever.
[00:14:14] Zach: Yeah, that's, but to your point, that's what I was like, hyper focused on in high school as I got really into Buckethead and Steve Vai and just wanted to be able to play fast and impress people at my school and accomplish that.
But then, I don't know, I, I was trying to go to Berkeley College of Music and I went, I might've talked about this in the pod. I can't remember if it came up in the context of a dream or not, but I went to like Berkeley Guitar Week. Uh, down in Boston, it's like a, like a camp, uh, and got placed in all the hardest classes.
I just got real like jaded, I guess. We went to like some recital to watch a Berkeley grad play. It was actually supposed to be Mick Thompson. His plane got, he's the guitar player for Slipknot, but his plane got delayed in Iowa. And so a Berkeley alum came instead and he just talked about how all he did was practice.
He talked about like getting up early in the morning. And practicing for X number of hours. And he could, he was, he had like my dream guitar, Parker Fly Mojo. And yeah, he could tear it up. He could play really fast, but that kind of seemed like that's what his music was about. Like, that's all it was. And I was like, Oh my God, on the trajectory I'm on.
That's going to be me. I'm going to be 320 in debt from Berkeley college of music, 320, 000. It's like 80 grand a semester. Oh, wow. Um, or a year and still, yeah, it's insane for a music degree. I mean, a lot of people drop out because they get good jobs. But anyway, yeah, that was an important day in my life. I was going to that recital and realizing that like, if, you know, if my whole life is music, then what's my music gonna be about?
Sure.
[00:15:59] Victor: What are the good jobs you get dropping out of Berklee College of Music? What's the pipeline for that look like? I think for most
[00:16:06] Zach: people, it's like, uh, either being a studio musician or playing in like a touring... When you go to see like a big pop act, like, you know, at a, a stadium or whatever, if it's like whoever, whoever big name is coming to your town, they have like a huge band behind them, you know, I feel like that's what a lot of Berkeley grads are doing stuff like that.
But yeah, that makes sense. I mean, some of them are John Mayer. One. One of them was John Mayer. He was a Berkeley grad? No,
[00:16:35] Victor: he dropped out. Several dozen are John Mayer. Several dozen. Berkeley is proud to produce their, their second dozenth John Mayer.
[00:16:47] Zach: No, I think he dropped out cause he started touring and got a record deal or whatever.
But yeah, that place is insane. It's like, at the, at the time that I, I did a, a go audition and the fucking, the power went out during my audition. And that, that felt like a sign. My heart wasn't in it. And by that time I decided I don't think I wanted to do that anyway. But uh, yeah, at the time they had like, it was something like an 8 percent acceptance rate for guitar players and like a 87 percent dropout rate.
Just
[00:17:14] Victor: imagining spending all like those years, like eight hours a day learning how to like absolutely shred and like, to be like your, like your heroes playing like metal music to then get a job like. Backing Taylor Swift playing like simple chord progression.
[00:17:33] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. Well, so yeah, they take so it pays Well, it takes so few guitar students.
I mean that makes I think I think the move is to if you play something else like Trumpet or trombone or something real
[00:17:45] Victor: money's in two guitars at the same time But anyway,
[00:17:48] Zach: I'm not sure how I went down that relay And
[00:17:52] Victor: I just move
Oh, okay. All right, so there might be some groaning happening
Um, yeah, okay, are we just diving into a dream I got it I got something yeah Let me let me pull it up because I don't actually remember it Let me whip it out. Okay, this is what I have written down. I don't really remember this, but it'll probably come back to me as I'm telling it. I do remember it's funny.
Um, I was in Target or something like it. It's a Saturday. I'm here for a meeting or something. I'm from out of town. Details are hazy. Uh, I, I said he. Okay, details are hazy. A song comes on. It is a Billy Joel song. Not someone I'm a fan of, really. I don't, I like, kinda know their music, kind of, right? But in the dream, I was like, oh, Billy Joel.
Um, and he sings about spaghetti in one of his songs and I'm like, oh funny and then I I'm like, oh, he must have a thing for spaghetti Uh, and then I'm like in the grocery store and I start shopping for stuff to make spaghetti and I like bump into Billy Joel And I'm like, hey, you're the guy from the spaghetti song and you're here buying spaghetti stuff.
How funny, right? And then, uh, I go on a date that I don't remember all that well, but I remember I made like really classy spaghetti and the date went well. Everything was good. Um, and then I'm like back at the Target, and it feels like a day or two has passed. It feels like I'm like in from out of town, and I just kind of have to be there for a couple of days.
Um, And, uh, okay, so then I'm like back in the Target, I'm just kind of shopping around, and I end up in like, kind of like a knick knack aisle. And then as I'm looking at it, I realize like, oh, this is, this is like spaghetti stuff. This is all like spaghetti knick knacks. And I bump into Billy Joel again. And it's like, you're just all about spaghetti.
They're everywhere that spaghetti is. Um, and like at this point, I feel like it's a problem that Billy Joel is so into spaghetti. Like, that it's like caught, like, that I feel a little, like, put off by it. Um, and then, um, I remember there's like, there's like a second date that happens. And in this one, I feel like I was with somebody that was like an analog of Olivia.
Like, It felt like okay, like the first date. I don't really remember if that felt like a relationship or not I don't really remember the context of that the second date definitely felt like I was like with an Olivia but look different I don't remember like the contrast I got there whatever but that that date It was like, I was definitely, like, off putting to her, and she was alarmed at how into spaghetti I was.
And, like, I had had, like, a series of spaghetti mishaps, and I remember trying to explain that it wasn't me, it was, like, Billy Joel's fault. That all of the spaghetti stuff had been happening. And I feel like... my date olivia had like got it by the end was like oh okay i get you it's just billy joel um and then i i feel like yeah i was like disheveled like things had gone wrong for me and i like had left that i'd like somehow i had like spaghetti like kind of like Smeared on my hand and I was like, oh god, like I gotta get the spaghetti off of me And I remember like stumbling around trying to like orient myself And then I end up like stopping at a water fountain to take a drink and as I'm drinking from this water fountain I feel this slurping on my hand and I see that Billy Joel has run up and licked the spaghetti off of my hand and Then run off and I'm like you got a problem Billy Joel
[00:22:37] Zach: Addicted to
[00:22:38] Victor: spaghetti
I didn't mean to yell into the microphone like that and I feel like I peaked real bad. You did. Yeah, sorry about that. You got a problem, Billy Joel. There, you can cut that, put that in.
[00:22:53] Zach: We'll fix it in post.
Is that the whole dream?
[00:22:59] Victor: That's it. Yeah. Make of that what you will. I don't know.
[00:23:04] Olivia: It sounds like the spaghetti was like the center of the stress a lot of the time. Or was it like Billy Joel was the center of the
[00:23:14] Victor: stress? Spaghetti didn't feel like a bad thing. And I don't really know how Billy Joel became a bad thing.
Didn't make a lot of sense to me. It just felt like crippling spaghetti addiction. Yeah, I felt like I was getting like increasingly annoyed by the presence of Billy Joel, you know? And it was all tied in with spaghetti stuff.
[00:23:34] Olivia: When you said that there was a series of spaghetti mishaps Do you remember what that was?
That that was like spaghetti stuff ruining your date with other Olivia, right?
[00:23:48] Victor: Yeah, I think I don't think anything actually happened. I think there was like some time jumping and like I lost time And I, so like, first date was like, classy spaghetti. Yeah, you said you made
[00:24:01] Zach: a classy spaghetti.
[00:24:03] Victor: I made a really good spaghetti, and it was a good date, and I was being like, a good date that had made a good meal.
Made a classy spaghetti. With a spicy meatball. How many years And then the second date How many years
[00:24:17] Zach: before that, Voices? Not okay to do.
[00:24:20] Victor: Is it still okay to do? I thought I was being offensive. Well, I started it,
[00:24:24] Zach: but no, I think it's totally fine. To make it to
[00:24:27] Victor: classy spaghetti. I'm coming for you, Italians.
Um, I'm coming for you. That was not in good nature. No. And then the second day, it just felt like everything... It was like a not a good date, and like I was definitely like off putting or like something like, I don't know It felt like I had like come come in there with like a real wild spaghetti energy And Olivia was like, what the fuck is this?
What is going on here? Yeah, I was rolling in with like Billy Joel vibes and having to explain why They're, I don't, I don't remember what exactly the conflict was.
[00:25:08] Zach: Did you slurp the spaghetti too fast and it like did that thing where it whips around your mouth and hits
[00:25:13] Victor: you with marinade or lipstick?
Yeah, there must have been it.
[00:25:17] Olivia: There really was like spaghetti at every
[00:25:19] Victor: turn though. Yes. I kept stumbling into spaghetti like without any plan. I couldn't escape the spaghetti. Yeah, I would just, I would just be going about my day and the spaghetti would be there. Yeah,
[00:25:29] Zach: I've never understood why that would, like why Italian food in general is like a date.
Food or
[00:25:34] Victor: I don't either but olivie's been into italian places lately We've gone to a couple and they're good, but no, it's great. But I also make pretty good italian You do that's my thing about italian places is i'm like, I mean, it's good but pasta I feel like if i'm gonna go out to a restaurant. I want something that feels like Hard for me to make yeah, and I just have a hard time feeling that way about pasta Even if it's very good pasta, I'm just like I could
[00:25:58] Zach: probably figure you know, Italian food is always good I just don't understand why it's considered high cuisine because it's like yeah, it's carbs and butter and garlic Of course, it's awesome.
[00:26:07] Victor: But I mean it has been delicious when we've gone to the couple of fancy Italian places Why is this so much more
[00:26:13] Zach: expensive than Mexican food? Yeah,
[00:26:16] Victor: same concept. What does that say about us? As a culture, why do we value Italian food so
[00:26:21] Zach: much more? Yeah, because it's the same, the, the, the culture of like food marketing is very weird and interesting.
[00:26:30] Victor: And why is it that pasta is able to like transcend like the trashiness to be like elevated high cuisine, but like there is a hard limit on how seriously people are willing to take pizza. Pizza is like, not a food that people are ever gonna be like, Oh, what a fancy, classy pizza I'm having right now. It can be good, it can be like a high end one.
Sorry, go
[00:26:56] Olivia: ahead. I don't know, like I would argue that spaghetti is the trashiest. It's just a different shape
[00:27:02] Victor: though.
[00:27:04] Olivia: We're talking like spaghetti and marinara sauce, right? Like, maybe meatballs.
[00:27:10] Victor: But that's only trashy because you associate it with your mom making bad spaghetti. No, my mom made great spaghetti.
Or whatever, but your mom made spaghetti. The my mom made bad spaghetti is what I was talking about.
[00:27:25] Olivia: Well, yeah, I also have a thing with red sauce where I find it incredibly boring, because... That was like one of the only things my, one of my siblings would eat. So we had that
[00:27:35] Zach: a lot. Some people have like favorite, a favorite pasta.
You know what I mean? Like they like penne more than rigatoni. It's just a shape. Like, I guess it holds the sauce slightly differently.
[00:27:49] Olivia: Strongly disagree. Yeah. Pasta shapes matter.
[00:27:54] Victor: I have heard arguments for, for the difference between pasta shapes. I don't know that I've like strongly experience the difference, but I'm sure there's like some subtle things happening there that go over my head.
I, yeah,
[00:28:08] Zach: if it's the same sauce and the same meat or whatever. Ingredients, I don't understand. We gotta do a
[00:28:14] Victor: taste test
[00:28:15] Zach: with the
[00:28:18] Olivia: We got real derailed here
[00:28:20] Victor: Yeah, no, no, this is fine We need to dig into this victor's
[00:28:25] Olivia: victor's purposely misleading us here
[00:28:27] Victor: Yes dream about anything recently any other belly drool dreams coming up for anybody?
[00:28:33] Olivia: Okay, so your feelings about Billy Joel. Not really a fan, but don't have like strong feelings?
[00:28:39] Victor: Yeah, no strong feelings. Okay. Feels like one of those musicians where it's like I'm aware of them. Yeah, but I don't I've never Cared enough to like form an opinion. He's
a
[00:28:51] Zach: piano man, right?
[00:28:53] Victor: Yeah. And that is an annoying song.
Yeah, that is. That is a bad song. I have a funny story about that song,
[00:28:58] Zach: but I save it for,
[00:28:59] Victor: let's Hear it. Victor
[00:29:04] Zach: That was, that was in, uh, a band and we all, we went to a karaoke night in our violin player's. Husband was the dd, and his name was Dan. And I was like, hey guys, when Dan shows up, let's do Piano Man together as a group, but let's sing it as Piano Dan. And so I just remember Oh,
[00:29:22] Victor: that's better than what I was thinking.
I was thinking like, D A N O M A N. I don't know why that's where I went. So your brain went first? You're supposed to be a decent writer, I don't know.
[00:29:32] Zach: You're normally the master of these kinds of jokes. Victor, for the listeners, the The intro and outro to our show is different every time, with like, it's usually some kind of quip.
Most of the good ones are Victor. So, Dan, oh man, is real let down.
[00:29:50] Victor: Yeah, sorry I failed you.
[00:29:53] Olivia: It's okay, Zach made a bad joke earlier, I think. Oh, at least one. I'll think of one
[00:29:58] Victor: by the
[00:29:58] Zach: end. I know, I, yeah, we'll just take turns. I just remember Dan sitting cross armed at the bar, just sober, and over it, well, Me and all my drunk friends, just like, arms around each other, shing a sha sha, you're the piano Dan.
He was so pissed, it was
[00:30:16] Victor: hilarious. That sounds like a good time. I don't know why he had a problem with that.
[00:30:19] Zach: So, lukewarm feelings on Billy Doll.
[00:30:22] Olivia: Alright, let's dig into some symbols here. Um, I think obviously spaghetti is one we should look at, and I believe we've looked at it
[00:30:31] Zach: before. Maybe, yeah. It's overwhelmingly.
Cause it's like. It's pretty
[00:30:37] Olivia: positive. Sophistication. I remember us talking about how, oh yeah, cause my mom had a spaghetti dream and I remember us talking about like spaghetti in the toilet is a specific thing in the dream bible. Really? Okay. I'm gonna read the spaghetti. Oh, you got it? Okay. To dream of spaghetti represents feelings about a situation being wonderful, about being complicated, that's beautiful the way it
[00:31:02] Zach: is.
That sentence was spaghetti.
[00:31:05] Olivia: A situation works out nice with why it's complicated. A complex or tangled situation that you find preferable to fixing. A situation that is beautifully a mess. that doesn't have to be fixed or complained about. Respecting yourself with why a situation is best for why it isn't the best.
Respecting yourself enjoying never wanting to untangle a difficult situation. Confusing or chaotic experiences that are too wonderful or special to draw attention to. Any need to fix
[00:31:43] Victor: them. See, this is definitely one where they were drunk, right? Yeah, no,
[00:31:47] Olivia: absolutely. Uh, positively dreaming about spaghetti represents an enjoyment of doing something difficult.
Enjoying applying intelligent experience or sophisticated methods of problem solving. Feeling good being served a mess clean for money,
[00:32:04] Zach: feeling,
[00:32:05] Victor: feeling good, being served,
[00:32:06] Olivia: feeling good, being served a mess. Clean for money.
[00:32:09] Zach: That's a sentence.
[00:32:12] Victor: Served a mess is in quotes, like it's like a common turn of phrase, but I've never, never heard that.
Oh man, I got
[00:32:19] Zach: served a real mess this weekend.
[00:32:22] Olivia: Negatively, I would say spaghetti seemed, was spaghetti
[00:32:25] Victor: negative? I don't feel that I had like negative feelings about spaghetti. I'm gonna read
[00:32:30] Olivia: it anyway. Negatively, spaghetti may reflect overdoing, thinking a complicated situation is beautiful the way it is.
Not complaining about a complicated situation because you prefer it without believing that someone else might not prefer it. Not wanting to piss anyone off that might not think of your situation as complicated as you do. Your anxiety about not being careful about showing your appreciation for something wonderful you fear losing.
Fear of losing your job if you aren't careful about respecting complications at your workplace that you are forced to put up with. Alternatively, spaghetti may be a sign that you find yourself entangled in a messy relationship situation that you prefer not to fix or complain about.
[00:33:19] Victor: How embarrassing would it be if it turned out that this website was just, like...
Generated by like a 2005 Chinese AI Just like scrambling words together and churning them out into semi coherent sentences
[00:33:34] Olivia: Impressed cuz it's been so on point so
[00:33:36] Zach: many times those Russian spam bots that we used to get emails from at work
[00:33:40] Victor: Yeah, what if the whole website is a Russian spam, but always a
[00:33:43] Zach: good place to stop.
[00:33:45] Olivia: Well, so okay Um, that last
[00:33:48] Victor: sentence, To dream of a toilet filled with spaghetti? No.
[00:33:52] Olivia: Um, entangled in a messy relationship situation that you prefer not to fix or complain about. I'm just thinking that, like, you were on dates in this dream. So, like, it kind of, like, maybe it is a relationship thing. Are we good?
[00:34:12] Victor: Hmm. Let's take it off air. No, we're good. We're good. I don't remember feeling any negative feelings towards my dates. Um, the first date was awesome. And the second date, uh, I mean, it was with you, so it was fine. No, uh, no, uh, the second one I Like, it felt like our level of, like, closeness, where, like, even though there was, like, a weird thing happening, it was, like, didn't, I didn't feel, like, threatened by it.
Okay, so it wasn't,
[00:34:46] Olivia: like, a first
[00:34:47] Victor: date feeling? No, it felt, the second one, it felt like a person I was in a relationship with. Gotcha. The first date, it may have been the same person, I just don't really remember. It feeling connected to anything. Does that make sense? It was like a it was just like a dream Like fucked up cognitive thing where it's like it doesn't feel like the two were in conflict or there was any like it didn't feel like It didn't feel like the plot was like oh I went on this secret date with this person and then I was actually dating this other person.
It just felt like a grocery store Date, grocery store, date, and then me kind of like wandering and drinking from a water fountain and then getting assaulted by Pilly Joel.
[00:35:34] Olivia: To dream of dating a person represents an aspect of your personality that you feel good getting to know before anything more serious happens. Feelings about experimenting with the choices, with choices or options, trying something you've never tried before.
[00:35:51] Victor: I, like, I, I briefly, like, chatted with Olivia about this, um, like, a couple days ago.
I told her in the stream. Um, and I remember thinking at the time that, like, the spaghetti entry kind of felt like maybe it was connected to, like, impending baby stuff. To, I mean, at least like abstractly, I don't know that it feels it felt that way in the dream, but like abstractly, I feel like when I think of like feeling good about a messy situation, it's like, well, yeah, things are messy.
We got like, you know, a little bit of chaos right now and things are going to get even more chaotic in a couple of months when we, when we're holding a newborn, but like, I'm feeling good about all those things, you know? Yeah. So that at least is the most. Direct thing I can think of in my life that feels like what the spaghetti entry is describing
[00:36:42] Zach: Yeah, but what does it mean?
I mean that that makes perfect sense What does it mean for Billy Joel to be obsessed with spaghetti? Yeah,
[00:36:50] Victor: I don't know how Billy Joel in your life. I don't know how Billy Joel plays into this or why he was hanging around Target.
[00:36:58] Olivia: Gestalt Billy
[00:37:00] Victor: Joel! Okay, okay. I'll try. Let's all
[00:37:05] Zach: take a pause and listen to Piano Man.
Yeah. We can get into the headspace of BJ. Old BJers.
[00:37:12] Victor: That's a good idea. I'm gonna play a little Billy Joel in my
[00:37:15] Zach: headphones. Okay. Yeah, no, don't play it on the pod. We can't afford those rights.
[00:37:19] Olivia: But do take a minute to get into
[00:37:22] Victor: character. Okay. I'll stop Googling Billy Joel songs. Okay. Okay. Let's turn the lights out.
Light some Billy Joel scented incense. Or marinara. Okay. Let me know when you're ready. All right. All right. Let me get serious here.
I don't know how this is going to go, but let's try it. Let's go. Okay.
[00:37:49] Olivia: Take your time with it, if you want. My purpose
[00:37:52] Victor: is. Okay. Um, my first thought was here. That's it. I think I was picturing the, the grocery store. I don't know.
[00:38:03] Olivia: My goal is.
[00:38:09] Victor: To stay.
[00:38:11] Olivia: My biggest fear is.
[00:38:16] Victor: Leaving. I love. You. I hate. I'm not getting anything.
[00:38:25] Olivia: I desire or
[00:38:26] Victor: wish. Yeah, I'm still not, still not, nothing's coming up for that. I don't know. I don't know that I was able to get there. Those were some
[00:38:35] Olivia: interesting answers.
[00:38:36] Zach: And to be fair, that seemed like a really hard character. To a body
[00:38:42] Olivia: well, and it's just like the things that did come up for you.
We're all really consistent. Um, and Not what I would have expected from that like chaotic spaghetti obsessed billy joel Like it was just like totally Like it felt totally unconnected from what where I was
[00:39:02] Zach: Yeah, when she said I love I 100 percent expected you to say spaghetti.
[00:39:09] Olivia: But yeah, so you said, um, my purpose and the, the word that came to you was here and you elaborated and said the grocery store. And then the goal was to stay and then you fear leaving. And then I love you, but I'm, I'm curious about the grocery store now.
[00:39:32] Victor: Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't have even thought. Yeah. Who were you
[00:39:35] Zach: thinking of when he said you?
[00:39:38] Victor: Um, aimed at me. Okay. Me, Victor.
[00:39:42] Zach: Because you have spaghetti on your hand?
[00:39:48] Victor: I desire to lick it off. As,
[00:39:50] Olivia: like, the guy who, like, who writes these, like, self loathing songs, like, I like the idea that there's just a little spaghetti obsessed Billy Joel inside there who loves you.
[00:40:01] Victor: A little spaghetti man.
[00:40:03] Zach: Maybe that's what this dream is trying to tell you, to, like, write, write a silly song.
Maybe,
[00:40:08] Olivia: maybe to dream of a grocery store represents decisions being made that help to sustain you for the short term. Keeping a good situation going by addressing your short-term needs. Confidence about knowing what you can delay, confronting a problems, or delay an unpleasant situation from occurring.
Feeling that it's. Easy to deal with your problems, just for now. Um, there's negatively, a grocery store may be a sign that you are considering dishonest behavior as a method of temporarily keeping a problem under control. Lies or deception in order to delay being honest. Feeling not good. Wait. Feeling good not having to face your problems for a short while longer.
A sign that long term solutions to problems are not being considered or that you continually keep putting your problems off for later. Short term solutions that cost you long term happiness. Alternatively, dreaming of a grocery store may reflect anxiety issues related to health issues with food sensitivities.
Anxiety about not being able to buy the special food or health products you need. That's
[00:41:20] Zach: all under negatively. Um.
[00:41:23] Olivia: That was alternatively. Negatively was like putting off your problems. Right.
[00:41:27] Zach: So the overarching theme is short term solutions. Short term
[00:41:32] Olivia: solutions. Yeah.
[00:41:34] Victor: Yeah. And actually, that does resonate.
Um. Okay. Yeah. That feels like, um. I've, I've expressed a couple of times on the pod, like I have a level of like dissatisfaction with certain elements of my life, right? Like mostly like career stuff, you know? Um, and part of me does feel like I'm like putting off changes or focusing on things that like, I don't know, I tend to put my energy into stuff that feels like, Long shot big reward stuff instead of doing like the slow Trudging like kind of pain in the ass work that needs to happen to make slow trudging incremental progress towards life changes You know, I am I'm instead like interested in like shiny projects that if they work out would be like really game changing You know.
And I feel like an internal conflict there a little bit. Sometimes I feel like, well, am I doing those things as a way to avoid change, right? Am I doing that stuff to stay in stasis? Like, it's like, uh, like an opioid of, uh, like. Soothing myself, um, from making change, because maybe I fear change or something.
And so, I'm not doing the thing where I, like, am doing the stuff that I know will get me somewhere else in the short term. Or in the long term or whatever, you know what I mean?
[00:43:04] Olivia: Yeah, and that checks out with the other two that you answered being the goal being to stay here and the fear leaving here
[00:43:16] Victor: Yeah, that's interesting and
[00:43:18] Olivia: and and and he loves you Yeah,
[00:43:22] Victor: because I do think that that impulse Um, does come with like, a little bit of like a self, self acceptance, right?
You know? Um, like, it is okay to be in the place that I'm in, you know? Uh, but, yeah, no, that just, uh, that entry felt like it connected with, My desire to change some things in my life and those things not changing for a long time and yeah How I sit with that, you know Well, and
[00:43:52] Olivia: so then like I feel like that gave us like a little key into the rest of the stream So like now you can look at how you were feeling about Billy Joel in the dream You were like annoyed with him or weirded out by him,
[00:44:08] Victor: right?
Yeah, it felt like there was like an upping the ante of like, oh, that's, that's silly to a degree where it was like a problem, right? And I don't know if the spaghetti is like about all of the like, complex joys of life or whatever. It may be like in some way about how like, um, like all, all the stuff that, that matters, right?
Like our life together, us having a family together, all of the like little social things that we get into, like, you know, like all the, all the things that are like what you're doing when you're not focused on like a, like a career thing or whatever, right? Like I get a lot of joy out of that and that is an important place to put my energy, right?
If, if I feel on some level that like focusing on those things is like keeping me in a place of like stagnation or something, you know, like in, in areas of my life that I could be more active in or whatever, like I said, um, I think I told you like, well, there's some stuff that like some of that practical stuff is like, Oh, I think I want to do this practical thing that'll help me make like a life change, but I'm going to wait until we're Past like the newborn stuff and I think that makes sense But it is still me using like the messy spaghetti of our life to like Further kick down the road like the practical slow kind of pain in the ass changes over The shiny fun stuff that I'm actually interested in, right?
Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. And
[00:45:49] Zach: it's all kind of tied together because I mean, right off the bat, this sounded like it was a fatherhood dream and then you got into career stuff and now the more you process this, it sort of sounds like it's all connected, which it is, you know, it makes sense. Cause that, you know, if you can make those practical changes in, in your career to make you happier, like that's not selfish, that's not entirely.
Divided from your family, like it would help your family. You know what I mean?
[00:46:19] Victor: Right or like there's no reason to choose between those things like I can do both of those things, right?
[00:46:25] Zach: There might not be enough hours in the day right now But
[00:46:29] Victor: that doesn't mean long term that there has to be you know,
[00:46:33] Olivia: so do you think this is a work?
Ambition stream again. Mm hmm. Does that like feel true or a drawn connections?
[00:46:43] Victor: I don't think it's necessarily Just work,
[00:46:47] Zach: right? It's not what I feel like I'm hearing you say is that it's kind of Maybe not primarily about that but it has to do with that in you know couched in the context of your of your life and Everything that's happening in it right now
[00:47:02] Victor: Yeah, you know, I think
[00:47:04] Zach: it's all dreams are about everything that's happening in your life.
[00:47:06] Victor: But yeah, I think that um we're all multifaceted people, right? And we all have, um, like wants and needs that are in like different categories of our life, right? And I do feel like there are some ways in which I feel like totally, um, totally fulfilled, right? Some areas of my life that I feel like are just like, I'm good.
You know? And then there are other areas of my life where I feel like a desire for more, a desire for change or growth or to achieve certain things or check certain things off the box, check certain boxes or whatever. And I know I, as a person. Uh, and more comfortable kind of digging into, um, like well tread ground, right?
It is hard for me to branch out sometimes in ways that would be good for me, for like growing and changing, right? Um, and I will use, like, Other things in my life to like good things like in this case I think good things I'll use good things in my life to put up a barrier between Myself and what is scary to me, which is doing new things that feel like they could go wrong or Whatever, you know, so I think not just in career stuff, but like in several ways, there's like things I would benefit from like trying to do the hard thing, but instead I do the stuff that is easier, comfortable.
I tell myself now is not the time to do the hard things. Now is the time to stay doing the easy and comfortable things and I'll get around to the hard things when the circumstances change. But obviously, I'm just convincing myself to keep doing the thing that, like, I instinctually want to do. Right? So. I think that's
[00:48:54] Olivia: pretty human.
I think everyone has to push themselves to do things that are uncomfortable. No one's like gung ho about like doing things that are out of their comfort zone, you know? Yeah. It's kind of like everyone has to do that. Everyone has to push themselves to go there.
[00:49:11] Victor: Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think it's like, it's really not like dark blow up my life kind of stuff.
It's just like, you know, it's what it feels like, right? It's like, uh, part of me is I'm, I'm very happy with the spaghetti, I guess. Um, I'm very comfortable in the grocery store, I guess. But I remember in the dream, it's like, I feel like I have to be here. I'm gonna be here for a couple of days. I have to be here for a couple of days, but then I get to leave Right, so it's like if you're always telling yourself, okay, i'm doing what i'm doing right now, but just for now And then down the road i'm gonna be doing something different, you know Like it is easy to kind of like check out of your own life by doing that.
You know if you're constantly living in Your idea of the future or in like constantly telling yourself the life you're in is temporary in some way you know like I mean it is but it's like when you're when you're so focused on like Where the change is going? or like Aspiring to some change like I've spent a I've spent a lot of time in like some stasis right in certain areas of my life, you know and I've spent a lot of that time thinking about how I'm not going to be doing that for much longer.
So, I don't know, I don't know what you call that. Um, it's not like I'm miserable about it, but it's still something I think I need to reckon with. Well,
[00:50:35] Zach: now more than ever, like now, right now you have a perfect excuse with a child on the way. Now would be a really easy time to be like, Oh, I shouldn't get into X, Y, or Z because I really need to focus on the, on change that is imminent that is definitely happening.
And that's valid and true to, to an extent.
[00:50:57] Victor: Yeah. And it is true and it's not a bad thing, but I think possibly like, I don't know that I feel like I've had like a Eureka click with this where like it all has fallen into place and I perfectly know what it means, but like if these symbols. are consistent.
Then, like, the idea of the spaghetti, like, kind of going from something that I'm enjoying or that is a positive thing to, like, something that's kind of spiraled out of control might stem from an anxiety that I have that I will let, um, like, The day to day distractions of life and like the thing that's happening now and the joy of becoming a father and all of this other stuff be a permission structure to just perpetually put off things that I would benefit from putting some energy into.
I think that that tracks
[00:51:50] Zach: with the dichotomy between you and Billy Joel because you're both enjoying the spaghetti but you were enjoying it too like a reasonable Grounded degree, you know, and then he really loved the spaghetti. So like, if like every dream character, he's a part of you, maybe that's, it's reflect reflective of, uh, a part of you that feels like, yeah, on the one hand now is a good time to not get out of my comfort zone because the baby is going to bring me out of my comfort zone anyway, like regardless, and I should focus on that.
But maybe Billy Joel is as part of you that's like, yeah, but on the other hand. Because the baby is taking you out of your comfort zone anyway, maybe now is actually conversely a really good time to like try something new, you know, cause you'll be in, you'll be out of the comfort zone regardless. And you can use that as, as permission to, uh, to not change anything else and just focus on the baby, or you can use it as, you know, an open door to working on some new project or, or, or whatever you're thinking about.
Branching out to
[00:52:53] Victor: yeah, because i'm of i'm of two minds about it, right? Like I do like the idea of becoming a father Um kind of it brings some things into focus, right? And then and on one hand I feel like Now is the time to turn away from the other things and really just focus on like what it's going to be to be a father and then it would be Stupid or selfish to put my energy into anything else and that that is true in a lot of ways, right?
But then there are there's another part of me that that thinks about like well Who do I want to be as a father when my kids a little older like old enough to perceive me? When my kid's old enough to look at me and be like, who is my dad? What is my dad? Like, um, there are things about myself. I want to, um, be different, you know, or like I want to grow and change in, in service of that.
Does that make sense?
[00:53:56] Olivia: It does. And I think Like, something that I keep hearing about and and reading about, um, actually, I'm reading a book that's like, uh, it's like, all about entering parenthood as, like, through a Jungian psychology lens, and it, like, talks about the process of individuation as, like, like, that So, um, yeah.
Your child is going to be of all the things that that could like, um, be a catalyst for that process at like having a child does that more than anything else because it's constantly you're constantly met with like opportunities to like reflect and grow and like and work on yourself and and a lot of people.
Um, when they're faced with that, turn away from it, and it's, it's just an opportunity. It's not a guarantee that you're going to grow or change or anything. It's just constant opportunities to reflect and grow. And so, I don't know, when you were talking about that, it sounded like you were looking at it as like a, well, do I want to, like, who do I want to be for my.
For my child who do I want to be to my child when my child can perceive me and also like I want to be there and be ever present And it's like those things can be kind of connected You know like that being and you hear this from people all the time like being a parent changes them So like maybe it is that like part of the process of being super involved in your kid's life is going to bring about Those changes that you're hoping to see, you know,
[00:55:36] Victor: yeah, I hope so.
[00:55:37] Olivia: I think you get to make it that though. It's like like you get to engage with parenthood has an opportunity to do that. Yeah. Um, and it's just up to you how you show up in it for yourself.
[00:55:52] Victor: Yeah, it's like This this is kind of a dumb example, but I feel like it's like It kind of illustrates i'm talking about it's like, um, we don't do a lot of camping We've expressed a desire to be more like camping people, right?
And i'm not a camping guy right now, but I like the idea of being like a camping dad. I like the idea of like Taking our kid out camping and doing like nature stuff with our kid, but it's like so is becoming a father going to be The reason to push myself to do more camping guy stuff so I can be that version of myself or is it going to be?
Well, I would do that. But because i'm a dad and I have oh, we're so busy with our day to day parent stuff I never We'll have the time or the opportunity to do that thing. You know, I, I, is it going to be the thing that pushes me to grow in the directions that I want to grow? Or is it gonna be the thing that is my permission structure to not grow?
And that's
[00:56:48] Olivia: like, yeah. Yeah. I, I think, I think everyone's faced with that in, in that situation. And it's like, it's up to you. Right? It's not about what it's gonna be, it's about how you're gonna engage with it. Right.
[00:57:01] Zach: Yeah. And I don't think that was a silly example at all. I think that was a very crystalline, like clear cut example.
Well, thank you. Um, cause yeah, when you said like, it feels Yeah, you know stupid or selfish to like pursue a new thing or like step out of your comfort zone With the kid on the way, I guess like it depends on what it is and how you approach it, right?
[00:57:21] Victor: Sure Yeah, not a good time to become like a touring musician, right?
Right not a good time to chase that dream You know,
[00:57:28] Olivia: but but like camping that is absolutely a thing that would affect how our child sees You and their childhood, right? Yeah, it's
[00:57:38] Victor: a direct impact. Um,
[00:57:39] Olivia: that, that directly impacts how you're seen by your kid and like, the, the experiences that you have with your kid and like, um, yeah.
So let's go camping.
[00:57:52] Victor: Mhm. Mhm. Uh, we're so busy.
Thank you for listening to The Jung and the Restless.
[00:58:01] Zach: You can follow us on Instagram at the Jung and the Restless Pod and submit your dreams for interpretation to the Jung and the Restless Pod at gmail.
[00:58:08] Olivia: And as we always say, at least
[00:58:11] Victor: nobody got hurt. Got.
[00:59:11] Zach: That's a nachos. Bel Grande right there. All
right, I'm killing it. That's a cheesy gordita crunch.