45. One of the Worst Symbols

The Dream Team discusses early aughts musical legends, ironic punk-rock affectations becoming habits, and the corrupting invisible hand of the…...

The Dream Team discusses early aughts musical legends, ironic punk-rock affectations becoming habits, and the corrupting invisible hand of the free market economy. Then they dive into an Olivia dream involving a green cat that refuses to be euthanized. What kind of symbolic feast has her unconscious mind cooked up for us this week? According to the Dream Bible, it’s not good!

0:00 Intro 1:56 Costume Party 5:01 Irony Becomes Real 15:15 Olivia's Green Cat Dream

About Dream Bible:

Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams.  Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.


Dream Bible entries used in this episode:

  Cats: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=cats Green: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=green Euthanasia: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Euthanasia Dogs: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=dogs  

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Episode Transcript

45. One of the Worst Symbols

[00:00:00] Zach: Welcome to the Jung and the Restless. I'm Zach. 

[00:00:03] Olivia: I'm 

[00:00:04] Victor: Olivia, and I'm Victor, and this is the podcast where I met a girl down at the disco. She said hey, hey, hey, hey, yeah, let's go Now I lay me down to sleep, I dreamt I had a soul to keep And if I die before I wake, will that dream just go on for its own sake?


[00:00:34] Zach: talk right now

[00:00:39] Victor: My girl's in the next room, sometimes I 

[00:00:44] Zach: wish 

[00:00:45] Victor: she was you, 

[00:00:48] Zach: the motherfuckin lips of an angel.

I like to imagine that she, that that dude's girlfriend heard that song for the first time on the radio. Oh my god. And was like, what the fuck, you told me you were talking to your sister. 

[00:01:08] Victor: Uh. And the girl he's talking to is like, what the fuck? You have a girlfriend? Both laugh.

[00:01:20] Zach: Totally worth it, 

[00:01:20] Olivia: though. Can you imagine being, like, can you imagine writing that song? Both laugh. 

[00:01:28] Zach: Be like, yeah. The whole world needs to know what a cool guy I am. 

[00:01:33] Victor: Yeah. You make it so hard to be faithful. Jesus. 

[00:01:40] Zach: My favorite part is doing it's kind of hard to talk right now in that voice. Cause it does sound like you have a mouthful of peanut butter, so it would be hard, it would be hard to talk right now.


[00:01:57] Victor: So we went to a costume party last night. Oh yeah? We were, yeah, we had to dress as um, like, it was supposed to be our favorite, uh, like 2000s song or 

[00:02:08] Zach: band. Oh yeah, you mentioned this, I think off air, that you were. Oh did we? But you hadn't come up with a costume yet. Yeah, yeah, what'd you end 

[00:02:17] Olivia: up doing? Well, Victor wore a cowboy hat and went as a Almost dead Johnny Cash.

[00:02:26] Victor: Yeah Did he die? No, cuz you know, he had he had that one song that kind of blew up and then he died 

[00:02:34] Zach: Did he 

[00:02:34] Victor: die? No I think he died, like, within a year or two of that song, Catching Wind. Which 

[00:02:41] Zach: was 2000. 

[00:02:43] Victor: I think it was in the 2000s. I was in high school, so it was definitely in the, in the aughts. 

[00:02:48] Olivia: And I just wore, uh, like, a label sticker on my tits that said lumps and one on my belly that said my hump.

Oh, nice. Uh, yeah, pretty low effort costumes, but you know what? It worked out. Also, we listened to that song like on the way down. Cause I was like, I haven't actually listened to my humps in a minute and like starting off, like I was not expecting much, right. And starting off, it was definitely like, Oh no, uh, this is going to be bad.

But, like, it fully won both of us over by the end. 

[00:03:27] Victor: Yeah. 

[00:03:27] Olivia: It holds up. Yeah. It's kind of, it's kind of a bop. Yeah. It's like, I mean, it's like... stupid. Yeah, no, it's stupid. It's a stupid song. But it's like, they're clearly not taking it seriously. It's not like a serious song. No. But, um... Uh, it's kind of a bop. It was my favorite song that we listened to on our way to this 

[00:03:47] Victor: party.

[00:03:48] Zach: It's one of those songs that gets stuck in my head a lot because the melody is that memorable, but the lyrics aren't. I can never remember the lyrics because I also haven't listened to it in a long time. So I'll just be doing laundry. I'll just be doing laundry and singing those lyrics wrong because why would I look them up?

Instead, I'm just like, I'm going to make, make, make you stressed, make you stressed out about death. 

[00:04:10] Victor: We were listening to the, like, an Otz playlist and man, it feels like maybe everyone was joking and it just all went over my head. It's very tongue in 

[00:04:20] Zach: cheek, that kid. Yeah. Yeah, I remember thinking that about Insane Clown Posse.

Like, I had friends, I listened to them in high school and I was like, you know, judgmental or whatever. And then somewhere, yeah, in like college, I was, I listened to a song and I was like, these guys might actually be like comedic geniuses. 

[00:04:40] Victor: Yeah, like, like I'm sure they knew that that was funny, but then like, like, the fans took it really seriously and it's like, how, like, how in on the joke are the people that are into it, you know?


[00:04:57] Zach: how deep undercover are they? 

[00:05:00] Victor: Characters and like yours run the risk of like irony just kind of becoming real, you know Yeah, like you do something ironically for a while and then it just kind of becomes something that you do There's no joke anymore. 

[00:05:14] Zach: Yeah, you just become full of serpico I'm trying to think if there's anything that I've done that with Like I feel like there has to be something I did ironically and then it just becomes 

[00:05:26] Victor: I think that's, that's all smoking is.

[00:05:30] Olivia: That is how smoking starts, isn't it? 

[00:05:33] Zach: I mean, I wasn't doing that ironically, that was, I genuinely thought that was cool as a, as a young person. But 

[00:05:41] Victor: I think everyone smokes to be like, Oh, look, I'm smoking. And then suddenly, 

[00:05:47] Olivia: Then suddenly you're an addict. Like, 

[00:05:50] Zach: I know how bad this is, but I do it anyway. I'm an outlaw.

Get it? Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of that with, like, bad habit kind of stuff growing up on, like, punk rock, for me, and, like, playing in punk rock bands early on. Uh, because we, we would drink, like, 40 ounces at band practice because, you know, it's, like, a gas station, sort of, like, lower class. Dang, but we're all college kids, you know, we're like cosplaying poverty, uh, because that's what the music that we listened to was, was lower class.

Glamorization. And, uh, yeah, I don't know. Eventually you just learn to like the taste of Mickey's. I know you're drinking it at home, with 

[00:06:32] Victor: dinner, like it's wine. There's a lot of, like, definitely drank some 40s in my day. Definitely, like, that was, that was a thing that my friends were doing. But I don't know that it was irony.

I think it was, like, The most, like, the most cost effective way to get as trashed as possible, you know? Yeah, that too. But then, like, at that time, like, people were, like, selling plasma to then be able to go and buy beer. Like weird weird time. 

[00:07:06] Zach: Yeah, it was definitely broke in college. Yeah. Yeah It wasn't irony so much as like a genuine obsession with this aesthetic of like Crust punk or whatever like as like like wanting to be a part of this this culture as much as possible But still being able to sleep in a real bed Yeah, and like the basement of a DIY venue, although I did do that for a while 

[00:07:26] Victor: Yeah, I feel like that's like I don't know so much of So much of what people do is just that.

It's just like, oh, I think I'm supposed to be doing this. Oh, like, people that I think are cool, like... By 40s and do this and listen to that kind of music and so I'm just gonna do that and dress like Everyone's just like play and play and pretend a lot of the time especially in the early 20s Yeah, and when you're like figuring yourself out, yeah 

[00:07:57] Zach: Yeah, I'm glad I got to do the whole when I was like 23 to 24 I like lived in multiple punk houses where we like smoked indoors and There were no glass in the windows and cats were just coming in and out.

It was like, just like shit, like a squalor, like total crust punk squalor living. And it was kind of miserable. Like it was cool to be that young and resilient and get to like cross all of that stuff off the list. And, you know, have done it, but then, you know, it, yeah, as, as a, a certain age approaches, you're like, I just want to be able to, yeah, sleep in a real bed at night.

That's not like a futon on the floor surrounded by beer cans with loud music playing at all hours of the night. Cause there are three fucking ska bands sleeping on the couch downstairs, fun, enriching times, but not a sustainable lifestyle. 

[00:08:52] Victor: Makes you appreciate the bed and the quiet and like the current Situation.

It's like at least I'm not in that trap house anymore 

[00:09:03] Zach: Yeah, part of me that like regret certain decisions. It's like well if I had you know Not gone to art school and got like a real viable degree in Like I could have skipped all that and gone straight to like a normal situation and then by now I might be like going to a house or something, but, but if I did that, I might be sitting here wondering, like, I wonder what it would have been like to, to be like a punk rocker for a minute, you know?

[00:09:28] Victor: Yeah. There's no right answers, no wrong answers. And 

[00:09:33] Olivia: also, I don't know, I don't know if that's even true. Like, I feel like most of the people I know, regardless of what their degree is in, like, it's really a gamble if you're gonna get your foot in the door on, like, a career path, you know? It's just like, I don't know, it, it used to be that, like, having the degree was, like, surefire way to, like, kickstart your career.

But then like, I guess when you make education more accessible, they're like, wait, we don't have 

[00:10:05] Victor: jobs for everyone. Well, because in our system, you know, like, I mean, we could make things better, but with the current Way things are organized like for every good cushy job out there you have to have like a hundred people that are fucking miserable, right and so like Deciding who gets the comfy chair or whatever is like It's usually not actually about who's qualified because plenty of people could sit in that chair Right just about like who you know, or everything else, 

[00:10:39] Zach: you know Yeah, man, I've been doing more reading about Burning Man than I ever have because of the whole debacle with the rain.

Oh, yeah. Everyone gets, everyone gets 75, 000 people getting stranded out there because it got wet. 

[00:10:52] Olivia: That's crazy. 75, 000, is that how many 

[00:10:54] Zach: people go to Burning Man? That's what I heard. That's how many, this year. Yeah, I think it gets bigger every year, 

[00:10:59] Victor: but. Yeah, it's more controversial than I thought it was.

[00:11:02] Zach: Yeah, I mean, it's always been like culturally. Controversial because it's, you know, counterculture or whatever. Um, but, uh, you know, it's made out to be like this utopian, like, uh, barter system, kind of off the grid mini society thing. But I was reading about the working conditions and I was like, wait, there are workers.

And then it was more, I read about, I was like, of course there are workers. They're, they're building stages for the music. There's, Labor to be done. There's a fuck ton of labor. And so there's a there's got to be a company that is paying people and Apparently they don't pay them very much and it's really hard work.

And yeah, it's just another Department within capitalism is just dressed up like a Anarchist bohemian paradise if you call being covered in dirt and on drugs paradise 

[00:11:55] Victor: What is the what is the good pure thing though? Like I feel like The more you look into anything, the more you find out that everything is just kind of rotten, right?

Like, what is, what's the thing you can do that's not toxic in some way? Soup kitchen? Is that the only thing you can do? Yeah, the only thing run by people. Yeah, but I've, I've, you know, a lot of the time with stuff like that, it's like... It's selfish to want to volunteer and like, or like to be like, more directly involved.

Like a lot of the time it's like, well, no, the most optimal thing for you to do is to, uh, donate your, your money and they'll, they'll take care of the rest or whatever, you know, or like, which isn't very like satisfying on like a, like a human level or whatever. And still just plays into like the capitalist thing of like, well, you need to have your day job doing whatever kind of sinister shit you have to do to get a paycheck with enough disposable income to contribute towards your chosen selected charity or whatever but then each charity is going to have its own conflicting like oh well they prioritize this over this and shouldn't they really be thinking about this when they figure out how to distribute their funds and blah blah blah.

You could 

[00:13:10] Olivia: just crawl in a hole and die. 

[00:13:12] Victor: I've thought about it. I've tried. 

[00:13:15] Zach: God wouldn't take me. Um, but I always wondered about that with like, I remember in college, like senior year, a lot of people went out to like build things, you know, broad and they go, like go to, right. 

[00:13:27] Victor: That's evil. Apparently. Did you hear about that?

No, that's not okay. 

[00:13:32] Zach: Yeah. I was just, my thought about it was always like, is it worth it for them? The people who are already out there doing humanitarian shit? Is it worth it for them to teach these trust fund kids which end of the hammer you hit the nail with? Or would it be better if they just sent part of their trust fund to the problem?

[00:13:49] Victor: Yeah, it would be better to send part of the trust fund. Yeah. 

[00:13:52] Zach: And just finish their degree here in 

[00:13:54] Victor: America. Or like how those, uh, you'll see those, I think it started with like, uh, Tom's shoes or whatever, but like, we're going to send one, like for every pair of shoes we send, we're going to donate one to like a part of the world where they really need shoes or whatever.

Pretty much across the board, all of those are like do more harm than good and like undermine local economies and are sending things to people that don't actually need the things that they're sending and so on and so forth. Like, so, 

[00:14:29] Zach: so everything's fucked. 

[00:14:31] Victor: But is it like is, is it like inherent to capitalism, right?

Like the capitalism will just rot. Any good intention out of anything and kind of leave you with nothing. Is that what we're doing here? You guys want to talk about dreams? Yeah, do you have one 

[00:14:48] Zach: you want 

[00:14:49] Victor: to get into? I dream of a revolution.

[00:15:14] Olivia: I have one. Okay, so I had this dream a couple weeks ago and so we were sitting in the midwife's office like in the waiting room and I see like up On the wall like a sign for vinyl pressing and I said something to Victor like, Oh, isn't it convenient that our midwife also presses vinyl because his album was like about to come out or had just come out around this time that I had this dream.

Um, also the midwife was a vet and we were waiting in the waiting room, uh, for her to be done with her other patient. Which was a cat that she was euthanizing, um, but it wouldn't die. And so, she like, and it, like, I don't know, the appointment was like, all over the place, like, at one point she was in the, in the lobby, like, in the waiting room, uh, like, injecting this cat with, uh, you know, what other, whatever, death drugs, whatever they use, um.

And then, like, they were outside in the parking lot, and the cat hadn't died yet, and so she was like, Oh, we'll just give it a little more, and like, this cat just wouldn't die. Also, it was a green cat. Um, and, let's see, then... Like, we were trying to help, like, with the situation at one point, um, and, I don't know, I think it ended with the cat, like, it gave us this look, like, we're in the parking lot, and the cat was, like, on the ground, and it gave us this look, like, fuck you guys, like, screw this, I'm going home, and then it just kind of trotted off, like, and left, left the situation, and I remember feeling like, well, I guess that solves the problem, the cat's, the cat, and.

Is no longer here. That's what we were trying to do, I guess. 

[00:17:14] Victor: And apparently 

[00:17:14] Zach: didn't need to be euthanized. 

[00:17:17] Olivia: Yeah, I'm not sure why it was it had like owners that were there for that. But yeah, it seemed alive and kicking 

[00:17:27] Victor: Somebody catch that cat. We got a euthanized it 

[00:17:32] Olivia: And it also I think it looked like a little dog at the end like kind of a disjunctive cognition thing It like turned into a chihuahua 

[00:17:41] Zach: Somebody run after that able bodied sentient cat 

[00:17:45] Victor: It's too spry.

I can't cat. It's so full of life. 

[00:17:49] Zach: That needs to be ended. Was it one of your alien cats? 

[00:17:55] Victor: No, it was just a 

[00:17:56] Olivia: regular cat except that it was green. And shapeshifted. Well, 

[00:18:01] Victor: yeah. 

[00:18:01] Zach: But it didn't have the presence of the the alien cats. I feel like they're not, um, part of your Your dream, your dreaming mind, right? 

[00:18:10] Olivia: No, the alien cats are a weird thing that happens every now and then, and they don't feel like cats or really 

[00:18:16] Zach: look like them.

Right. And you've described the feeling as being like, they're not part of your dream. Like they almost feel like a real entity. 

[00:18:24] Olivia: I mean, yeah, this was just a cat in my dream. 

[00:18:28] Victor: What do you want me to think? Did the, um, owners kind of look like, were they in like dark suits with dark sunglasses and little like ear pieces?

Yeah, but what's 

[00:18:40] Olivia: What's that got to do with anything?

[00:18:45] Victor: I pulled up, I don't know that this is like real, like I don't know that the symbols are gonna get us very far with this But I pulled up cats and immortal and green Mash those together and see where we're at Um, to dream of a cat symbolizes an illusion of confidence about something that isn't as tough as it says it is.

Um. Is it green? Seeing oneself. Note that this is cat. Cat. So a cat is like something that thinks it's, you know, really tough, but isn't. Has an illusion of toughness. Seeing oneself safe, being too serious, but scared away easily once it's time to stand up for yourself or confront an issue. Conflicting feelings of confidence and fear.

A false belief that you've convinced yourself is true in order to feel safe. Assumptions or daydreaming about things you feel good, never questioning being difficult. That is interesting. Yeah, cats are kinda defined by like, they're like, They're overconfident, and then terrified of actual conflict a lot of the time.

Yeah, they are, aren't they? Yeah. Perfect safety that confidence, uh, perfect safety that's confident it will never be embarrassed that can be told to stop instantly. I don't know what that means. It's nonsense. Feeling confident asking for things and scared away easily from an argument if rejected.

Thinking that you are emotionally safer than you've ever been when you don't see that you aren't. Wait, wait. 

[00:20:13] Olivia: Can I read that? Yeah. Okay.

Feeling confident asking for things and scaring away easily from an argument if rejected. 

[00:20:27] Zach: Okay. Does that resonate? 

[00:20:30] Olivia: Uh, yeah, but I'm not going to say anything yet because I don't want to put ideas in our heads. 

[00:20:38] Victor: A cat in a dream can reflect your need to feel good, to feel loved, or feel comfortable about things that aren't objective.

Choosing to ignore facts or reality because it feels better. Lying to yourself to avoid feeling pain or hard truth. Lying to others so that they will think you are safe. Feeling safe not standing up for yourself. I can't believe we've never read the cats entry. Wait, haven't we read the cats entry before?

Mainly like we had when you're with the alien cats. But it doesn't sound familiar. Yeah, it's not ringing a bell, right? 

[00:21:07] Olivia: I've had plenty of cat dreams, I just think we haven't done them. 

[00:21:10] Victor: There's positively dreaming about cats. There's to dream of attacking other people's cats. Negative cats? Huh. Cats are often one of the worst symbols a person can dream about because the very problem they symbolize may be too hard or scary for the person's ego to accept.

Cool. Something a person will easily live in denial about or never want to confront because it feels too good or safe to believe in it. Nobody wants to admit to themselves that they're more scared than they let on to others. Nobody wants to see themselves as accepting themselves as a sissy. I 

[00:21:48] Olivia: love when the dream bible is like, This is 

[00:21:52] Victor: the worst 

[00:21:52] Olivia: thing that could happen to you.

It's like, side note, if you're dreaming about this, If 

[00:21:57] Victor: you dream about trees, no one can help you. There's kittens, there's, oh, pregnant women often dream of kittens, it says here. That makes sense. What, what, what does it say about that? Um, Pregnant women often dream of kittens. This may reflect their sensitivity about need.

Well, let me read the kitten entry first. To dream of kittens represents the beginning of having illusions of confidence about something that isn't as tough as it says it is. So it's like, like the beginning of a cat, right? A sensitive need to care about people who may not deserve it or may not respect you.

That's interesting. Illusions or unprovable beliefs we are very sensitive or protective about. Sensitive confidence that's that easy. It says sensitive confidence that easy to scare off. I don't know. That is easy. That is easy to scare off a beginning stage of vulnerability or innocence in a situation such as starting a new project or relationship It can also represent a desire for nurturing or caretaking.

Pregnant women often dream of kittens This may reflect their sensitivity about needing to be perfectly safe and protected during pregnancy That may be overdoing thinking perfect safety is important. Illusions about hurting the baby if they aren't perfectly healthy or safe Pregnant women who dream of kittens often dream of more dangerous cats, such as lions, later in their pregnancy, probably to reflect their aggressive need to control their environment until the baby is 

[00:23:25] Olivia: born.

That really resonates. 

[00:23:29] Victor: Does that resonate in this context? Um, I don't know. Okay, there's black cats. There's white cats. There's dark green cats. It was a light green cat. 

[00:23:40] Zach: I know we've read the green entry before. It 

[00:23:42] Victor: was 

[00:23:42] Olivia: definitely like light, like a very light green, almost like, you know, that, that like, um, like temporary hair color spray that comes in a can that looks like chalk.

It was like that color. 

[00:23:57] Victor: Well, there is no light green cat entry specifically. We'll have to go to the green entry to get there. Dark green is uh, illusions of confidence that is selfish and so on and so forth. That's actually quite a long entry. There's orange cats, blue cats, gray cats. If you dream, if a dream cat is aggressive, uh, to dream that you're afraid of a cat.

To dream of a house full of cats and that's it. Okay. So someone want to sum up? Do you want to sum up kind of what you're getting out of cat live? 

[00:24:30] Olivia: Um, well, there was something about like conflicting fears or conflicting feelings of fear and confidence. Uh, that feels like, yeah, that I feel like that's how I'm feeling about everything right now.

Um, makes sense. But yeah, it sounds like. There's a good chance, according to Dream Bible, that this is pointing to something that I am not willing to look at because of my ego. So, uh, I don't know. I'm gonna try and stay open to what a cat could possibly mean. I don't want to, like, point to the things that do resonate for me because it could easily be something else.

Right? Exactly. Um, but I'd like to hear like, what does light green 

[00:25:18] Victor: mean? Like, specifically with the cat thing, it sounds like maybe like an insecurity that you're like protecting with like false bravado or something. You know, it's like you have an insecurity, maybe you're not even willing to look at it.

And so you were like projecting strength in an area. Where there isn't any well, 

[00:25:36] Olivia: that's my whole fucking deal That's like my whole thing. Like that's like my whole Problem. Are you a cat? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I'm a cat. No that um, well, let's hear like 

[00:25:52] Victor: So green green in general represents thinking of yourself where lighter and darker shades determine how positive or negative Thinking of yourself is.

So, then dark green would be like negative thinking of yourself, and light green would be positive thinking of yourself, it sounds like. Positively green may indicate a healthy need to think of yourself first. Negatively green may indicate an excessive need to think of yourself first. So that's interesting.

Like light green is actually like healthy prioritization of your needs above others, which is something we've been talking about a lot. Yeah. 

[00:26:30] Zach: Yeah. With your like boundaries around after having the baby, 

[00:26:34] Victor: like. Yeah. Yeah. And just like life boundary stuff. Um, just like something we've been talking about is like, um, like me and Olivia both have some, some people pleaser tendencies, right?

And Olivia has been thinking through like Olivia's been thinking about that and hitting places where it's like, I don't think I need to be a people pleaser in these ways anymore. Um, and, or like, I don't want to be able to try and work against that. And, uh, I'm not as far along with her. I still have like a, like a really anxiety about like, you know, putting my needs before others.


[00:27:12] Zach: need to get pregnant or at least get more, more of the sympathy. I'm working on it. 

[00:27:17] Victor: Yeah. We're trying. She's been pegging me every night.

[00:27:23] Olivia: I do think it has, like, it has to do with that for me, though, the, like, the reason that I feel, like, emboldened to, like, really take on and challenge those people pleasing tendencies is because I'm not gonna fucking do that. Uh, like just to make other people comfortable when it's like comes to boundaries with our kid.

Yeah, like, and I already feel really strongly about that line in the sand. And so, yeah, it feels like for a long time. I was willing to be like, Oh, well, you know what? Fuck me, I guess . 

[00:27:58] Zach: Yeah. You know what this makes me think of? Which, uh, you know, feel free to let me know if you want this cut out or whatever, but it was something that came up a lot early in the podcast, uh, like frustratingly, so like you walked outta the room one time because you were so frustrated about having yet another dream about a particular friend conflict.

Right. And uh, that whole thing seemed to have to do with that particular tendency to want to keep the pee 

[00:28:26] Olivia: definitely. Yeah, it absolutely was 

[00:28:29] Zach: like a relentless dream for you. And obviously baby dreams were going to take that over no matter what. 

[00:28:35] Olivia: Yeah. Yeah, no, that whole situation absolutely was about that.

And like, it was, Um, me not being able to, like, express how I felt, like, wronged by this friend and, um, and, like, stewing on it. And, like, I recently saw something somebody was talking about, like, people pleasing is actually, like, a really dickish thing to do. Like, it's not your fault. It's like, it's like a trauma response or whatever.

But you're kind of an asshole for doing it because you're not... 

[00:29:05] Victor: Being dishonest. You're being like resentful. 

[00:29:08] Olivia: You're not being authentic with people. And like, and then you're like, it leads to resentment where you're like, yeah, you like stew on how like, how people are treating you or like how people are taking and not giving and and you're not expressing it and you're letting it happen.

And then, and then you're, and then you're mad at them and, and that's, that's your fault. I've been on 

[00:29:35] Zach: the receiving end of that where somebody blew up at me about something that, uh, you know, a few months prior had been explicitly stated as totally, totally cool with a good, with a, with a smile and a, and a handshake.

[00:29:50] Olivia: I have too and I was like wow what an asshole but I've also done that so um yeah anyway but but like with this it's like with the baby thing it's just like I'm fully not even willing to like go there a little bit I'm not like willing to like give an inch and like. And so, uh, like I guess I'm just in a place where I really feel like, uh, I can just tell people and I've been practicing like telling people exactly what we're doing and like learning how to feel like learning how to feel okay with it, I guess, like, um, trying to internalize that their feelings are not my responsibility.

Yeah. Is there more on it says? Yeah, there's 

[00:30:41] Victor: Um, I was just, I was just thinking about people placing, like it's, it's something we talk about a lot. Sorry, what were you gonna say? 

[00:30:48] Zach: Oh, I mean, we'll probably get there, but I'm just, I was thinking about the, the dynamic of, given what the cat seems to mean and what green seems to mean about the dynamic of it, trying, like, people trying to euthanize it and it not going down.

I don't know what that is yet. I don't have a theory, but like, I'm just, that seems like a significant, um, dynamic in the dream. 

[00:31:08] Victor: Yeah. Yeah. It's like evocative of something, but it's kind of hard to put your finger on what, right? Resilience maybe? I don't know. Um, okay, um, light green to dream of light green represents off them to dream of light green represents often represents Healing or thinking of yourself in a positive way Removing of obstacles positive change or health problems are improving progress or moving forward with a problem It may also represent psychological or emotional issues that you are overcoming.

Light green may also be a sign that you are experiencing physical healing. People commonly dream of light green when starting a new career or relationship. Hope, renewal, and fresh beginnings. emotional healing and growth. 

[00:31:58] Olivia: Love to hear it. It's funny that I had a dark green snake in the last stream that we did, which is like selfishness, selfish, evil asshole.

But I, that kind of does make sense because again, it's like, I'm kind of caught in this place with this stuff where like, I feel both sides of that really strongly. Like I still have the impulse to like, Um, operate the way I'm operating. And like, it's hard for me to operate in a different way. So like, I don't know, maybe the green cat is like a positive symbol.

Um, that's like in conflict with the part of me that thinks I'm an evil, arrogant asshole. 

[00:32:46] Victor: And something we talked about when the dark green snake came up was like. It can be hard to tell, like once you're, once you're like going into the territory of changing your behavior and like looking out for yourself and enforcing your boundaries in a way you're not used to doing, like, at least for me and I think for you too, it's like, it's hard to tell if this is like light green or dark green behavior, right?

It's like, well, am I actually just being fair to myself and like, like doing something healthy in enforcing my boundaries? Or am I like, You know, crossing over into being uncaring and unkind to other people or whatever, you know, this 

[00:33:27] Zach: sound like real therapy language. Is this light green or dark green behavior?

[00:33:33] Victor: Um, I mean, you're a mortal. I don't know if that's the best keyword for, 

[00:33:38] Olivia: we can hear it. I kind of, it doesn't resonate as like a, Like it didn't feel like the cat was like immortal. It just felt like the medicine wasn't working. 

[00:33:47] Victor: Is there a euthanasia? There's another symbol entry. Let me look. 

[00:33:51] Olivia: I know there's an injection entry.

Or like 

[00:33:54] Victor:

[00:33:54] Zach: syringe. Yeah, we talked about that in one of my 

[00:33:56] Victor: dreams. There is a euthanasia entry. Should I look up syringe? Let's hear euthanasia. Okay. To dream of euthanasia represents respectful, dignified, or peaceful end to a situation. A civilized ending to a relationship. Habits, beliefs, or situations that you are planning to get rid of by choice.

Ending or changing something on your own terms. The dream signals a transformative experience or a period of self discovery. Choosing to let go. Ending a situation or relationship because it spares you of difficulties or pain in the long term. To dream of an animal being euthanized represents an end to something you care deeply about.

It may also reflect giving up peacefully or making a difficult change because it's cleaner or less painful for the long term. That's 

[00:34:41] Olivia: such an that's such a positive entry for like a thing that feels sad, you know 

[00:34:47] Victor: and controversial the exam sure Yeah, yeah The example is a man dreamed of having To have euthanasia performed on a puppy in waking life.

He felt it was time to peacefully end a friendship 

[00:35:02] Zach: Yeah, I mean, I guess euthanasia on animals is normal and common, but like you said sad 

[00:35:08] Olivia: Yeah, I think of it as sad, but, um, almost always the kind thing to do. Oh. There are obviously situations where, like, 

[00:35:16] Victor: people 

[00:35:16] Zach: do that unnecessarily. I think, well, I think the controversy comes in when it has to do with humans, 

[00:35:20] Olivia: but that's Oh, yeah.

I wish we could do that with people. That would be the kind thing. 

[00:35:25] Zach: Yeah. Well, that's not what this dream was about. I just thought that that, like, cultural Yeah. Debate would influence the um, you know dream bible survey insofar as what euthanasia means to people but I I'm betting that like nine out of ten people thought of animals first.

[00:35:40] Olivia: Yeah, I feel like we maybe wouldn't call it euthanasia for people but but yeah, I I feel like What so what that means to me is like now to relate it back to what Zach was saying about like trying to euthanize the green cat but it not dying like kind of feels like a almost like a resilience thing against like forces within myself that want to suppress.

The urge I have to, um, make this change in my 

[00:36:12] Victor: behavior. Yeah. Yeah. It could also potentially represent maybe a relationship you're trying to change or end in service of that. you know, light green self interest or whatever, but that like is persisting. A relationship? Yeah, like a relationship, like euthanizing an animal represents kind of the end of a relationship or can represent a relationship.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I mean, not necessarily. I'm just saying that's an alternate. Possible 

[00:36:46] Olivia: interpretation. Yeah, I, I have felt, um, that that is something that has kind of come up for me recently. It's just like, there are some relationships in my life that like, don't serve me as they are, at least, you know? Um, and like, whether it means like ending them or like, uh, Adjusting how I operate within them or how much energy I give them or the kind of energy that I give them, you know, like, uh, there's a part of me that is like being called to, um, adjust those things, um, and, and like how I operate with certain people for the purpose of being more true to myself and what I want in my life and the kinds of things that do feel like they are, um, bringing positive.

Things into my life if that 

[00:37:41] Victor: makes sense. Do you remember if in the dream like do you remember how how you felt about? Euthanizing the cat like were you trying to did you want the cat to be euthanized were you like? Oh, they shouldn't be euthanizing that cat or like let him go or like how did you feel 

[00:37:58] Olivia: about it?

Yeah, it's interesting because I feel like the person that I am would have, like, strong, a strong impulse to, like, protect the cat and, like, um, like, I'm always, like, protecting animals in a dream and, like, um, but, and it was kind of clear that the cat didn't need to be euthanized. Like, it was clear that this was a choice being made by the owners, but I was at one point assisting, I believe, like, and I didn't Um, that conflicted about it, I guess.

No, I think I, I did feel conflicted about it, but I didn't, I wasn't like, yeah, I felt conflicted about it. I didn't feel like strongly one way or the other at a certain point. And one point I was like holding the cat, I think, while they were trying to euthanize it. And then at the end, I remember feeling like, uh, glad that it like ran away.

That it, it got 

[00:38:52] Zach: free. Yeah. Cause you kind of told the dream almost objectively, like. You didn't really mention yourself as a character, kind of, it felt like, uh, at least, at least the way you described it, like, it was just a story you were witnessing. 

[00:39:06] Olivia: It, I kind of was just witnessing it, like, I wasn't, I, I don't remember, like, really talking to, the only thing I remember saying was, like, uh, commenting to Victor about how he could get his vinyl pressed here, like, while we were here.

[00:39:21] Victor: The jack 

[00:39:21] Zach: of all trades. 

[00:39:23] Olivia: Yeah, the midwife, veterinary, and vinyl pressing. 

[00:39:27] Victor: Yeah. I'm just going to crack this dream wide open and look up vinyl pressing. That 

[00:39:32] Olivia: definitely was just like your album. Definitely. Um, but yeah, no, I think like I, yeah, I was like assisting at one point, but I felt like kind of neutral about it.

And then, um, Again, at the end, it felt like, it felt like it, the same result was achieved. I don't know if that, that doesn't track with kind of what we're doing, but it kind of felt like, No, that tracks. Oh, really? Like, the pro, it felt like the problem was solved. They didn't want the cat here, and so the cat left, and like, To me, it's like, well, what difference does it make if the cat is dead or not their problem?

[00:40:13] Victor: Yeah, if like, if the light green is, is instead of being like, oh, this is the embodiment of your like, um, uh, Self interest or whatever you'd call it. You're you're like self protective behaviors or whatever and you're light green behavior, right? If instead of being like the embodiment of that It's just like the cat symbolic of a relationship or relationships or like an approach to life or whatever The light green is like, this is you making, like you doing things better, doing things the right way, right?

And then like, yeah, the cat staying maybe is, um, Like, keeping the cat is maybe damaging in the long run. The cat needs to go, and it's just a matter of like how the cat is gone, right? Yeah. How to get rid of the cat. 

[00:41:07] Olivia: Yeah, it's like whether it's, um, yeah, it's like whether it's like in posi it's, whether it's free or not, I guess, is kind of how that 

[00:41:16] Victor: felt.


[00:41:16] Zach: Yeah, so what could And the cat. Sorry. No, no, no, go ahead. Yeah, that, that, that was an interesting moment in the dream when you were like, well, I guess that solves the problem. When in reality, you know, if a cat that needs to be euthanized got away, that's not the, the problem's not solved. I guess unless you're just gonna like leave it up to a wild owl to eat the cat 

[00:41:39] Olivia: yeah and it was also like I remember in the dream it was like running down a long parking lot towards Aurora which is a very busy highway in Seattle and like I remember having the thought of like well that's a busy area where a cat could get hit by a car but like Thank you.

I don't know. I like wasn't worried about it. I guess like it seemed like it was fine. Like the cat was gonna be was gonna take care of itself. 

[00:42:07] Zach: Yeah, that is what we, this is a total sidebar, but we had mice in our apartment for a little while and I approached it with that same attitude where I, I didn't want to kill the mice, but what I was doing is I would get the humane traps.

And I would go release them in a, uh, nearby neighborhood that's full of cats. I'd 

[00:42:27] Victor: be like, 

[00:42:27] Zach: I didn't kill a mouse. Nature solved the problem. Hopefully. 

[00:42:32] Olivia: No, I didn't kill a mouse. I fed a 

[00:42:33] Victor: cat. Yeah. Um. Does it feel like that kind of gets at what you're... Like does it feel like we got towards the meaning of the dream.

[00:42:43] Olivia: think it does Yeah I think that actually quite nicely sums it up and it makes sense that it was like it was like taking place at the Midwife's office like right because 

[00:42:54] Victor: the baby is like a catalyst for these changes. Yes. 

[00:42:58] Olivia: Yeah, and it was like It was also like we couldn't go in for our midwife appointment until the cat was taken care of.

Oh, yeah. So it's like, you know, in my head, like, I have this big thing where I'm like, Oh, I have to like, figure it out before the baby comes. Then also 

[00:43:19] Zach: Victor happens to be making a record. It's just like everything was going on. Yeah. Wait, so can you, like, I guess just for like, summarization purposes.

succinctly described the, the dynamic, like what, what, what exactly is happening? Like, what is the green cat? Why is it being put down? I'm just trying to wrap my head around the, like the, the mechanics of the dream, I guess. 

[00:43:46] Olivia: Yeah. Um, 

[00:43:48] Victor: I'm the green cat. She's been, you know, she like, She's been letting me get away with too much for too long and some things need to change around here Or she's gonna have to put me down.

The midwifery was 

[00:44:02] Zach: just a red herring. It's mostly about the the vinyl pressing 

[00:44:07] Olivia: Um, what i'm still like a little Foggy on the cat entry. 

[00:44:13] Victor: Yeah, I was gonna say like I feel like that's the The question I still have is like if the cat represents a thing that is like maybe like a weakness that you like project strength about or like You know what like an insecurity that maybe you're you have a hard time looking at or something How that ties and also maybe that is like where the people pleasing impulses come from or something Yeah, 

[00:44:39] Olivia: and like I think Yeah, I think the cat is like Some, some of like my deeper, uh, psychological dynamics, but like, um, yeah, like I think I mean, Victor and I've talked about this a lot.

I don't know how much we've talked about it on the podcast, but like one of like a thing that I have. Like, trouble with in my life is like, um, like, uh, this sounds weird to say on a podcast where I come here and talk about like my problems, but like, I do have a, like a little bit of a problem with being like vulnerable and like truly intimate with people.

And like, so, uh, yeah, I, I don't know. That feels like an area where I like. Project confidence when I'm like trying to keep people at arm's length, I guess, um, or like confidence isn't really the word. It's just like if I do feel vulnerable, like I don't, I, that's something that kind of triggers me unless I'm like in a safe place with like Yeah.


[00:45:49] Zach: It is pretty hilarious that three, like, especially private introverts would decide to do a podcast at all, but then to do one on, like, the inner workings of our own psyches. 

[00:46:02] Victor: Yeah. It's the most vulnerable podcast ever. 

[00:46:06] Olivia: It is funny, like, Like, I feel like a lot of podcasts are like three guys yelling over each other.

And like, our podcast is like, we're all like kind of talking in these like soft dulcet tones and being like, Oh, sorry, what were you gonna say? 

[00:46:26] Zach: It's taking long pauses to like really think about what we're about to say. 

[00:46:31] Olivia: Yeah. I don't know. Victor, I'd be curious to hear you talk about the cat a little more.

Like that's, again, I think that's the part that's hardest for me to like. 

[00:46:40] Victor: Yeah. Um, I mean, I think something we've talked about is like that maybe that you have some, like we've talked about the people pleasing stuff, right? And then also sometimes you'll, um, enter into like relationship dynamics with people, not romantically, but just like, you know, like interpersonal relationships with people, um, that will cause you a lot of stress with how you operate in those, those relationships.

Um, and like how that's connected to deeper stuff and whatever, you know, and so like if euthanizing an animal is connected to like letting relationships go or like letting things take their natural course or whatever, it could, it could be like on this journey of like, you know, treating yourself better and having more self respect.

That's a thing that's hard for you to look at is like when you get triggered in a relationship and it makes you like you want to get really like worked up about it and like Operate a certain way that's been unhealthy for you in it, you know Yeah like that's and that's hard to look at where that's coming from or what that's about but you feel the thing in you that's like That you either need to change how you operate in those relationships or end those relationships.


[00:48:04] Olivia: I think, um, I think again, like, with this, with all of this, I'm in a place where it's, like, a lot easier said than done. For sure. And so, like, Like you said, like when I actually end up in a situation where there's conflict, it stresses me out a lot and it's not as simple as me being like, Nope, sorry, this is what I'm doing.

And this is how I feel. And I'm going to do this for myself. It's not that simple for me right now. Um, but I would like to get there because I think it's important. Um, And so I guess, yeah, I guess it is like, um, yeah, it could be about like ending, ending. Ending that dynamic in relationships or adjusting, um, how I operate, how I operate in relationships and or like my involvement in certain relationships that, um, tend to have those dynamics because, uh, clearly that is a thing that is recurring for me.

So you 

[00:49:11] Zach: feel like maybe the euthanasia is. emblematic of ending relation, certain relationships. 

[00:49:18] Olivia: Or just how I operate 

[00:49:20] Zach: within. Ending a part of, yeah, putting down a part of you. Yeah. So it makes sense, like, if the cat, if a cat is like this overly confident, but ultimately easily buckled creature, like that does, Uh, seem to, like, like it could reflect where you're at with people pleasing stuff, like, like you're totally gung ho and ready to set these boundaries, you're not gonna give an inch, but you're still, you know, a little cat like, and that if somebody were to really challenge it, you might, um, fold, or at least that's, at least that's the 

[00:49:51] Victor: worry.

Something we were just talking about. I think you, you, you've brought it up just talking to me and then I think you said it on the podcast the other day, but, um, how when talking to safe people like me and Zach, um, you'll take on like a very I don't need to do anything for anybody. I don't know, you know, I'm a very strong position because that's actually very hard for you to do or you're like actively trying to like embody that version of yourself.

Yeah. And so like that makes me think of that false cat confidence. Yeah. Like you're putting that out there because it's a weak spot for you. So 

[00:50:31] Zach: the euthanasia could be, you know, you like wanting to put that down. Yeah. Like, not be a cat about it, but be whatever is actually more resolved than a cat. 

[00:50:42] Olivia: Yeah.

Yeah. Is a dog, is a dog more resolved than a cat? 

[00:50:47] Zach: Maybe a lion. This is said that later on in your pregnancy you might be dreaming of bigger jungle cats. 

[00:50:53] Olivia: Yeah, but the cat turned into a dog at the 

[00:50:55] Victor: end. Oh 

[00:50:55] Zach: yeah, a chihuahua, a little yippy chihuahua. A 

[00:50:59] Victor: little 

[00:51:00] Olivia: dog. I don't know if it was a chihuahua, it was like, it was kind of like a little like wiry haired small 

[00:51:06] Victor: dog.

[00:51:07] Zach: A little Napoleon complex. 

[00:51:09] Victor: Yeah, dog represents feelings about areas of your life where you are emotionally protective. The type, size, and color of the dog will reflect how you choose to protect yourself from difficult emotions or confront problems. 

[00:51:21] Olivia: Well,

yeah. Uh, yeah. All right. 

[00:51:28] Victor: There's a lost dog. I don't know if this counts as lost. Dog is just kind of doing their own thing. 

[00:51:35] Zach: Uh, man. And that kind of explains the, uh, the attitude of like when the cat says, fuck this, I'm going home and leaves. And you're like, well, I guess that solves the problem. You know?

Like if, if, if the cat is your tenancy or, or, The fear that you're gonna buckle under pressure when it comes to people pleasing stuff and you're trying to euthanize that and like get past it, but it just retreats like that could be you like bottling it or like, you know, uh, yeah, just dealing with it another less permanent way and being like, well, that works for now.

[00:52:06] Victor: Yeah. Yeah, it's like for those relationships. Those relationships can change in two ways. It can either be like you continue to like, see each other, but you shift how you interact with each other, or you stop, stop interacting, right? Either way, kind of solves the problem. At least for now, I think is right.

Yeah. Until another cat comes along. 

[00:52:30] Olivia: Right. Uh, and I do think there's some like impulses in me to, um, like, like I have an impulse to, uh, um, use those walls that I already have, like to further set my, like to set my boundaries, you know, like, um, or like using boundaries To, like, reinforce those walls, I guess.

Like, I feel like, um, I don't know. We've talked about, like, how I feel like being postpartum with an infant is gonna be, like, very vulnerable. To be honest, I don't want anybody but Victor to see me during that time. Um, and so, like, Even though there's people who, like, really want to come see the baby, like, or whatever it is they want to do, they want to help, they want to, like, do our dishes or whatever, like, I don't want that.

Um, and regardless of if that's, like, a healthy, coming from, like, a healthy place, that's probably, that is more coming from a place of me, like, being uncomfortable with, like, that kind of intimate, um, like, dynamic with people that I don't feel comfortable with. Um, but like, yeah, it feels like I have to set boundaries to protect myself in that time.

So, I don't know how healthy that is. Uh, maybe my, like, impulse to be less people pleasey is just coming from a place of, um, further Like digging my heels in on on like stuff that I'm trying to work on. 

[00:54:16] Zach: Do you think the fact that you're the only one of us in therapy right now is frustrating to our female listeners?

Probably. Because Victor and I are over here like with our dreams being like, that was weird. I'm sure I'll be fine though 

[00:54:32] Victor: Best to not think about it. Olivia's working so hard over there. I'm trying Can you get enough therapy to share with the rest of us? I've 

[00:54:41] Olivia: been trying to share my therapy with you ever share with the whole class Victor My therapist thinks you should go to therapy 

[00:54:47] Victor: Like of course, they would say that It's a racket pyramid scheme Yeah, yeah your therapist Sitting there like yeah, I think we should see each other more and I think you should send more people to therapy.

It's like You're just trying to buy a boat. 

[00:55:08] Zach: It's like when my, my dentist told me he was a big fan of hockey. I was like, I'm sure you are. 

[00:55:13] Victor: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:55:16] Olivia: We used to get, they used to give us candy at the dentist. That's 

[00:55:19] Victor: how they 

[00:55:20] Zach: got you. Those were the good old days. Yeah, it was just well, I don't know. I actually haven't been in a minute.

Well, they don't give adults things adults. Don't get fun 

[00:55:30] Victor: That's why I stopped going. Yeah, no more Happy Meal toys. I'm out. 

[00:55:32] Olivia: That's why I stopped going 23 

[00:55:34] Victor: years ago. I Said you know, this is the last lollipop we're gonna give you and I said, you know This is the last time we're gonna see each other 

[00:55:44] Zach: Yeah, I don't trust Dennis been burned too many times 

[00:55:49] Victor: Notorious suicidal pervert profession dentistry

There's miss I don't need to explain that hats I don't know about everybody out there knows what I'm talking about I need to 

[00:56:04] Zach: Google dentist dentists news

I just know I'm always like, it's like going to like, uh, the mechanic, like to get an oil change and then they diagnose you with six other things you need to come back for, but then you go to a different mechanic and they're like, no, your water pump's fine. You know, I just, every time I go to the dentist, I'm getting like second, third opinions and I never actually know what's going on with my teeth because they're all racketeers.

[00:56:33] Victor: Every time you see a therapist one of them is like you need to be in here every other day And this could take years and then you see another one and they're like you seem fine to me No need to be here. 

[00:56:44] Zach: You seem fine to me. That'd be a great therapist 

[00:56:48] Olivia: I've

[00:56:52] Zach: gotten that vibe from therapy before I went to I did the like the hair cutting school Equivalent of therapy where I got therapy from like a grad student For 13 bucks a session. Oh yeah. Every session was like, I didn't feel like, uh, she knew what to do because I had had therapy in the past. So I was like, here's what's going on, but I'm working on it in this way.

I would describe the CBT stuff that I've been taught in the past and how I was working through stuff and she'd just be like, okay. Cool. And then in the last second, in the last like minute of therapy, I'd be like, Oh, yeah. Sometimes also when I'm driving, I picture steering off the road and crashing into a lamppost.

Is that normal? It always happens 

[00:57:32] Olivia: in the last minute of therapy. I'm like, Yeah. But usually I'm like, I don't want to get into it. There's that time. 

[00:57:38] Zach: 49 minutes. I'm like, I think I'm doing pretty good. And the last minute I just remember something. It's like really potentially an 

[00:57:45] Victor: issue. You should really be able to go into overtime with therapy.


[00:57:49] Zach: somebody in the waiting room, waiting to talk about their fucking day. 

[00:57:52] Victor: Well, do did we crack it, Liv? Yeah. 

[00:57:55] Olivia: I mean, there's shit there, but. Yeah. I think I have a clearer 

[00:58:00] Victor: picture of this one. It's the cute ones that'll get ya. This is so cute. It's like, oh, we're just trying to kill a cat. What could it possibly mean?

We do it every day. 

[00:58:12] Zach: Gonna take a little dirt nap. It's mean and stuff. Little forever sleepy. It's adorable.

[00:58:20] Olivia: Thank you for listening to the Jung and the Restless. 

[00:58:23] Victor: You can follow us on Instagram at the Jung and the Restless Pod and submit your dreams to the Jung and the Restless Pod at 

[00:58:28] Zach: Gmail. And as we always say, dreamer, I hardly know her,

[00:58:44] Victor: the clock.


[00:59:30] Olivia: met a girl down at the disco. She said, Hey, hey, hey, yeah, let's go. I could be your baby. You could be my honey. Let's spend some time, not money and mix your milk with my Cocoa Puff Milky Milky Cocoa Puff. Mix your milk with my Cocoa Puff Milky Milky, right? 

[00:59:47] Zach: We'll just cut that out and that'll be the intro.

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