35. Mess with the Shrike, You Get the Spike

The Dream Team are a bunch of fireworks-hating, Independence Day Grinches, and they are not sorry! Olivia shares a dream…...

The Dream Team are a bunch of fireworks-hating, Independence Day Grinches, and they are not sorry! Olivia shares a dream that takes place in her childhood home, and features a former friend she hadn’t given much thought to in a while. The Dream Team cracks this one wide open using ALL THREE of the dream interpretation tools at their disposal.

About Dream Bible:

Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams.  Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.


Check out Victor's music here: https://open.spotify.com/artist/7wkYp4bsjqoYsuO9ivolpC?si=grnJxtYzTEKujJvI4I4VGA

Sign up for Steve's Songwriting Soul Retrieval Workshop here: https://mythicsouldreamwork.squarespace.com/

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Submit your dreams for interpretation to thejungandtherestlesspod@gmail.com

Episode Transcript

Mess With the Shrike, You Get the Spike

Welcome to the Jung and the Restless. I'm Victor. I'm Zach.

[00:00:03] Victor: And

[00:00:04] Olivia: Olivia and this is the podcast where Fuzzy Wuzzy has hair.

[00:00:08] Zach: Did you listen to last week's episode or

[00:00:34] Olivia: No, I'm a bad, I'm a bad listener. I'm a, I'm a bad fan of this podcast.

[00:00:39] Zach: 

Oh, that's okay.

[00:00:40] Olivia: I will, 

[00:00:40] Zach: yeah. No, I thought you might listen just, uh, to make sure I didn't fuck it up. Not like as a, a fan per se.

[00:00:48] Victor: We have total faith in you.

[00:00:50] Olivia: No, I, I trust you. I'm, when I'm double checking, it's to make sure that I didn't fuck up.

[00:00:55] Zach: Yeah, I mean the, the bits that I did like, like recorded originally, for that episode were, uh, only a couple minutes at a time. The rest was stuff we recorded in the past.

[00:01:06] Olivia: I'll have to check it out sometime.

[00:01:08] Victor: Yeah, I'll be late to it.

[00:01:11] Zach: if you get around to it, yeah. Mostly if you just like and subscribe. That's really what helps us out the most.

[00:01:18] Olivia: I checked our Apple reviews recently and like, yeah, some people wrote some really, really nice reviews and.

[00:01:26] Zach: People that we don't know,

[00:01:28] Olivia: yeah, one of them I'm pretty sure is from Steve.

[00:01:31] Zach: he, he said he did that, so one, one of them for sure is.

[00:01:35] Olivia: Doesn't make it any less. Um, sweet. And then there was another one that was, um, seemingly by somebody that, you know, just started listening and, they said something about it being like, really helpful for them, like in their own introspection and like, I don't know, that just, that tickles me.

I love to hear that

this show is, doing something for people that feels meaningful cuz we're just shooting the shit.

[00:02:03] Zach: Yeah. Uh, I wonder if that person is into dream stuff or, uh, or if they're new to it or if they're getting like a third thing out of it or a second thing. You know what I mean? I feel like a lot of the people interacting with us online are, um, in the dream community.

[00:02:20] Olivia: Yeah, I believe it sounded like they were kind of new to it and just like,

[00:02:25] Victor: like kind

[00:02:26] Olivia: of stumbled into it, but kind of like how we did.

[00:02:30] Zach: Yeah, I was gonna say entry level, like us

[00:02:32] Olivia: Yeah. they, they submitted this a while ago and we had since shouted it out, but they, they were asking where to find Victor's music, um, uh,

[00:02:42] Victor: Down by the railroad tracks.

[00:02:45] Zach: down over yonder.

[00:02:47] Victor: Dig, dig until you hit rock.

[00:02:52] Zach: Until you hit the bedrock.

[00:02:54] Victor: Um, yeah. I, I, it's kind of a, I I have kind of a hard to, hard to find name, but, uh, De-Esser uh, d e dash e s s e r.

[00:03:09] Zach: Oh, there is a dash.

[00:03:10] Victor: It's on Spotify and Band Camp. And, um, look for a girl in a dress with a bare head. And that's me.

[00:03:20] Olivia: Or I think the

[00:03:21] Zach: Isn't that Olivia?

[00:03:21] Olivia: Spotify now.

[00:03:22] Victor: Yeah, I think that Spotify is on there now.

[00:03:25] Olivia: Nah, that's not me.

[00:03:26] Zach: Oh really?

[00:03:27] Olivia: Yeah,

[00:03:27] Zach: That's a girl with an actual bear 

[00:03:29] Olivia: that's some other girl. No, that's,

[00:03:31] Victor: that's a friend that did a, like, took a picture for herself for her own thing. Yeah. That was Heather. Oh, cool. And was just for her own thing. And I was like, Hey, can I use this as album art? And she's like, sure. Whatever. And that was a decade ago.

[00:03:48] Zach: Nice. You've just been hanging onto it. I wish I had more time to work on music.

[00:03:54] Victor: Yeah, me too.

[00:03:55] Olivia: uh, for any listeners who are singer songwriters and into dream stuff, there's a really cool workshop coming up in August by our good friend Steve, who you may remember from episode 20 something probably. Uh, he's one of the hosts of the Dreams That Shape Us Podcast, which you should also check out.

But he's, he's doing a workshop that is, To my understanding all about like harnessing your dream work into songwriting, um, and making music. And it just seems really cool. That's what he does with his music and he's very good at it. And so,

[00:04:37] Zach: Yeah. I saw on Instagram him inviting you to, to that. And for half a second I was, I was like, I have music too, Steve. I'm a musician. I have stuff online. Uh, and then I saw where he put, uh, you know, as, as a, uh, whatever, baby gift, new parent gift. And I was like, okay, well I don't have one of those.

[00:04:58] Olivia: Well, I'm sure, um, I'm sure you could, I'm sure he'd love to have you.

[00:05:04] Victor: Yeah.

[00:05:05] Olivia: Uh, well me get the name of this workshop real quick so I can properly plug it. songwriting, soul Retrieval. and we will post a link in the show notes if you're interested in signing up. It's a weekly Zoom meeting situation. 

[00:05:20] Zach: So how's your 4th of July?

[00:05:22] Olivia: Great. We, uh, we avoid fireworks like the plague,

[00:05:28] Zach: I hear that.

[00:05:28] Olivia: so we fucked off to an island somewhere far, far away and we still heard some fireworks, but it's not nearly as bad

[00:05:37] Zach: Did you go up

[00:05:38] Olivia: in our neighborhood. Yeah. Uh, to the, the San Juan Islands.

[00:05:42] Zach: nice.

[00:05:43] Olivia: yeah,

[00:05:43] Zach: Yeah. I wish, I wish I could have done that.

[00:05:45] Olivia: Is it really loud in la?

[00:05:47] Zach: yeah. I, I live right in like the heart of Mid City.

[00:05:51] Olivia: Oh

[00:05:51] Zach: It's, uh,

[00:05:52] Olivia: probably goes late too.

[00:05:54] Zach: oh, it's brutal. Uh, it wasn't as bad as last year. Last year I didn't get to sleep until like four or five in the morning with the windows shut and all the fans blaring and, uh, what do you call it?

Um, earplugs in, uh, it was still like shaking the apartment too much for me to sleep tonight. I, man, or tonight, this year I managed to get to sleep by, I don't know, three.

And I, at one point I was up kind of late cuz fuck it. And I, I walked to seven-eleven to get snacks or whatever, just through the, you know, the mayhem.

people were setting 'em off in the street and they're, because no one has like backyards or driveway,

[00:06:37] Victor: crazy. Is

[00:06:37] Olivia: that legal?

[00:06:38] Zach: probably not, nothing's legal in California, um,

[00:06:43] Olivia: Nothing's legal. So everything's

[00:06:45] Zach: except Wade. Um, but, uh, yeah, no prob it's probably, probably, they probably got, you know, got it all in Nevada or whatever. Um, but I saw a guy on my walk, this poor soul.

He, he was, uh, just sitting on his front stoop with his car. Like parked on the street, you know, 20 feet in front of him. And I knew it was his car cuz every time, like a particularly big firework went off near it, the car alarm went off and he would just like, with his fob and he was just sat out there like all 

[00:07:27] Olivia: Oh my God.

[00:07:29] Zach: And every time, yeah, like every, like 30 seconds, a fire, a, a firework would set off his car alarm and he would click his fob and turn it off. And that was his, that was his independence day.

[00:07:39] Olivia: Oh my God. Miserable.

[00:07:42] Zach: I know he probably had dogs inside taking shelter. It's a miserable holiday for a lot of people.

[00:07:50] Olivia: Yeah, no, it, it really is. Especially if you have a dog, you probably know, but, but I also think about like, all the wildlife that is just displaced and terrified, you know? Um, just seems like we probably should have found a better way to do that by now, in my opinion.

[00:08:11] Zach: freedom, you mean?

[00:08:12] Olivia: Yeah. Like I saw in, uh, Minneapolis, they did like a, like a laser show and had a bunch of like carnival rides and stuff and like, you know, that's fun.

[00:08:23] Victor: Those like 3D drone displays are 


[00:08:26] Zach: just gonna say, did you see the one in China of the giant dragon?

[00:08:29] Victor: Oh, well I saw I, the last I saw was a couple years ago, so I haven't seen any recent ones. I bet SU only getting better and

[00:08:37] Zach: I mean, I've, it's been showing up in my, you know, Instagram feed. I don't know how old the footage actually is, but it's sick as hell.

[00:08:45] Victor: Yeah, it's very cool. And also doesn't like, you know, it's not fireworks and all the problems with fireworks. Right. So, I mean, I don't know how many like drones like go rogue and start trying to kill people, you know, their AI gets corrupted or whatever, but, uh,

[00:09:02] Zach: God, I hope we're not there yet.

[00:09:05] Victor: takes hyper-intelligent drone to make a dragon in the air and it's like gotta be this close to hun

[00:09:12] Zach: Yeah. They've all gotta be linked somehow. They're not individually piloted for sure.

[00:09:18] Victor: But still that those are so cool and like maybe a good alternative that and laser shows and stuff.

[00:09:25] Zach: big,

[00:09:25] Victor: I

[00:09:25] Olivia: we had like more of that, you know, around here cuz I feel like.

[00:09:31] Victor: I

[00:09:31] Olivia: don't know. I feel like when I think about the 4th of July, like I do have like good memories as a kid, you know, that was like fun to see fireworks as

a kid. But like I, and like I wanna be able to do that kind of thing with our kid, but I just like, we, we literally can't, like, I would never, I would never leave our dog like he thinks he's gonna die.

It's really sad. Um, and like, yeah, I mean, I just, I wish there was something else we could participate in and like still kind of make those memories with our kid, you know?

[00:10:05] Zach: Have you seen that big dome thing in Las Vegas that they just built?

[00:10:10] Victor: Oh yeah.

[00:10:10] Zach: That's pretty neat.

[00:10:12] Victor: That's crazy. I

[00:10:13] Olivia: I don't think I've seen

[00:10:14] Zach: like an inside out planetarium.

[00:10:16] Victor: Yeah, it's a giant dome that just like projects. I'll try and find it. It's, uh, It's crazy looking. Um, it

[00:10:27] Zach: I bet you could see it from an airplane if you fly over Vegas.

[00:10:31] Olivia: You project things onto it.

[00:10:33] Zach: It is like l e d panels, isn't it?

[00:10:36] Olivia: Oh, okay.

[00:10:37] Zach: But it's a big, yeah, it's a big dome, like a half circle, half sphere, hemisphere as it's often referred to. And there're all kinds of, they'll make it look like a basketball that's rotating, or like an eyeball that's open, like where the lid is opening and closing and it looks nuts. But, but you're right. When, when I was a kid, there was something magical about the, like, setting off fireworks, the actual, like the fire and the smell of the gunpowder and uh, and almost blowing your digits off.

[00:11:10] Olivia: That dumb thing is really cool. Victor just showed it to me.

[00:11:13] Zach: Yeah.

[00:11:14] Olivia: But, yeah, those are kind of treasured memories and like, you know, wait, like counting down the minutes until it's dark enough to

[00:11:22] Zach: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:22] Olivia: and

[00:11:23] Zach: Torturing your neighbors.

[00:11:25] Olivia: yeah.

[00:11:25] Zach: Yeah. I mean, I have really fond memories of my cousins and I trying, like having bottle rocket fights and blowing up action figures and, um, but then like, I remember the minute like, or the year more, more specifically, uh, that like there were new kids in the, the extended family that were of able to play with fireworks age.

Like it just flipped me and my cousins were suddenly, even though we were only like, I don't know, I don't know how long ago this happened, maybe. We might have been like 19 or 20. Suddenly there were kids running around that putting themselves in danger about to blow their fingers off. And we went from being those kids to having to like yell at those kids to not kill each other

[00:12:13] Olivia: Right.

[00:12:14] Zach: and we're like, it just in one year just suddenly became not fun anymore.

[00:12:19] Victor: Yeah,

[00:12:20] Zach: 

Yeah, and then you know, responsibility starts to pile up. You gotta get up early. You don't even start setting off the loud ones till your bedtime.

[00:12:29] Olivia: anyway, not to be a

[00:12:32] Zach: Fucking

[00:12:32] Olivia: fat bummer.

[00:12:34] Zach: fucking red, white, and blue grinches.

[00:12:37] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:12:38] Victor: I was trying to see how many people like die as a result of July 4th. But my, my Internet's being uncooperative.

[00:12:46] Olivia: I remember someone,

[00:12:47] Zach: make up a stat then.

[00:12:49] Olivia: I remember somebody,

[00:12:50] Victor: people die every year directly related to Independence Day.

[00:12:55] Olivia: um, a friend's mom told me one year that she was at a fireworks show and like it was firemen that were like put setting off the fireworks. Like it was a fully organized thing that was like for safety. And like they had one, they lit it and it was like a dud and they waited the allotted amount of time and this fireman went to go get it and it blew his head off.


[00:13:22] Zach: head,

[00:13:24] Victor: According

[00:13:25] Zach: oh, what the fuck?

[00:13:26] Olivia: this person. I think that that kind of thing does happen. Um, 

[00:13:32] Zach: I was told tonight to leave a dud alone

[00:13:36] Olivia: I mean, this could be just a lie that was told to me for fun. People like to do that to kids. I don't know why

[00:13:45] Zach: so they don't go after duds,

[00:13:47] Olivia: I wasn't gonna,

[00:13:49] Victor: but probably like a million thinkers. Right. I've gotten blown off

[00:13:54] Zach: per

[00:13:55] Victor: over the, over the history.

[00:13:57] Zach: over the history for sure.

[00:13:58] Victor: Yeah. Yeah. We've definitely lost a million fingers.

[00:14:02] Zach: I wonder if there are more injuries every 4th of July from fireworks or, uh, every Thanksgiving from people trying to deep fry turkeys in their driveway.

[00:14:13] Victor: Oh, I feel like fireworks for sure cuz so like more people are gonna do fireworks than deep fried turkeys.

[00:14:21] Zach: That's

[00:14:21] Olivia: but if everyone was deep frying their turkeys,

[00:14:25] Victor: it would be like a Armageddon.

[00:14:27] Zach: Because per capita, yeah. Like everyone does fireworks, but not everyone blows their finger off. But everyone that I've heard of that tried to deep fry Turkey in, in, in a hole in their driveway, set their house on fire.

[00:14:41] Victor: Like I know it can be done, but you got like a 50% success

[00:14:45] Zach: Yeah, it's like making meth. It usually blows up your house or mobile home. 


[00:14:52] Zach: I can't, I can't find my bottle opener. So I'm gonna open this beer with this lighter and I'm gonna hold it to the mic cuz it always makes a super cool sound.

Oh, that wasn't cool at all. That was just like a normal bottle opening.

[00:15:40] Olivia: Any dreams for music?

[00:15:45] Zach: None that I remember.

[00:15:48] Olivia: Zero.

[00:15:48] Zach: a drought of, well, of remembering, but like, yeah,

[00:15:53] Olivia: Does that mean we have to talk about me again?

[00:15:56] Zach: I guess so. mean, I did the, I did the whole episode by myself last week.

[00:16:01] Olivia: That's true.

[00:16:01] Zach: I think people are probably over my voice. Um, but I've, like, for the past couple weeks I've either gotten up super early or slept in super late and I feel like neither are good for remembering your dreams. For me, but I do, I do feel like I've dreamt a lot every night. I just, I need to be better about, um, journaling.

[00:16:24] Olivia: Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to write it down right when you wake up. I was having sleep paralysis this afternoon and when I was, when I finally sort of started to come out of it, I yelled to Victor Enchilada Paralysis

[00:16:40] Victor: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:43] Olivia: because in my sleep paralysis there was a hallucination about like tasting the enchilada sauce over and over again.

And like I thought it tasted great, and then somebody kept like complaining about it

[00:16:56] Victor: Uh, were you 


[00:16:58] Olivia: somehow like halfway between a dream and sleep paralysis. Like, I don't know. No, it wasn't, I wasn't a chef. It was just like, it was like I made enchiladas for a bunch of people and like, I don't know, someone had a complaint about the sauce.

[00:17:13] Zach: And that was why you had to keep trying it.

[00:17:15] Olivia: Uh, it was like I, I kept having, I kept floating between sleep paralysis and then like getting sucked back into that dream. And it was like I had to try the enchilada sauce again. Like it kept rewinding, like back. So I kept getting stuck in this one loop of this one, part of that dream, and then I would sort of wake up but be paralyzed.

[00:17:36] Zach: You know what's funny? Is it, like, on the surface, it sounds like you're, you're just saying what's happening like, and like. Two words that describe like the drains about enchiladas and you're having sleep paralysis. So you're just say, you're just shortening everything to one shorthand phrase. But also it sounds like, like, you know, the term option paralysis, right?

Like it kind, it kind of sounds like, like that's what you,

[00:18:00] Olivia: paralysis.

[00:18:01] Zach: you were, you were, you were, because of this complaint, you had to keep testing the sauce and you were stuck in enchilada paralysis.

[00:18:08] Olivia: Yeah. 

[00:18:09] Zach: I had enchiladas for dinner last night.

[00:18:11] Olivia: They're so good.

[00:18:13] Victor: I

[00:18:14] Olivia: a mean enchilada sauce too. I don't know why I, no one would complain about it, but

[00:18:18] Zach: I don't even know,

[00:18:20] Victor: Yeah.

[00:18:20] Zach: I don't even know what makes enchilada sauce different than other sauces. Like what's in it?

[00:18:26] Victor: The recipe.

[00:18:27] Olivia: Could you not say that about any sauce?

[00:18:30] Zach: No, but I, I'm, I guess I'm saying I don't know what's in it.

[00:18:33] Victor: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:34] Zach: it's not just, it's not just taco sauce without meat. It's like something different. It's like more savory or something.

[00:18:41] Olivia: yeah. It's made with, Flour, chili powder, garlic powder, cute, and like a bunch of spices and flour. And you mix that in with oil. You like cook that in oil and then you add tomato paste and then you add a bunch of broth. It's really, it's quite simple actually.

[00:18:58] Zach: Okay. But the, the tomatoes are more whereas in like a lot of sauces that was, that would be what you started with. 

[00:19:07] Olivia: Yeah. 

[00:19:08] Zach: of red 

[00:19:08] Olivia: more like spice based. 

[00:19:11] Zach: this is a cooking podcast now. Welcome to the Yum and the wrestling.

[00:19:18] Olivia: I have noticed some like themes in my dreams lately. Uh, I keep having chickens in my dreams and. I also have dreams. Like I've had a lot of dreams that take place in the house I grew up in, which is not always the case. Like I, I have dreams that take place at our current home or at the house that I moved to when I was 12.

Um, and sometimes they are in the house I grew up in up until age 12. And I think you're right, Zach, like you pitched a theory about this like many episodes ago, but that, like, that maybe has to do with like what,

[00:20:04] Zach: What you're working through.

[00:20:07] Olivia: Yeah, and like at what developmental age that thing is connected to.

[00:20:13] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. That's a, a thing that I was talking to with Shelby recently about, not, not in in relationship to dreams, but in relationship to just like general therapy kind of stuff. Because we were talking about the idea of like latent anger, like not the type of anger that's like, uh, an immediate response to a stressor or like something angering, you know?

I almost feel like there should be another, there should be like two different words, kinda like how there should, there should be two different words for the different anxieties. You know, there's like anxiety, like, oh, I have to, uh, do public speaking today and I'm anxious about it. And then there's like clinical anxiety.

Uh, similarly with anger. There's like, He's like, I'm angry about traffic. And there's like, I don't even know what I'm angry about. It's like coming from somewhere deep within and it's easier to mask because it's not as like emergent. where was I going with this?

Oh, oh, the developmental stages. Shelby Shelby's therapist was asking her about her like late and anger and if she visualizes it, like where does it come from and what does it look like? And she sees it as like her 12 year old self. And so she's been working on trying to figure out what was going on when she was 12.

Why does, uh, why does it feel like it came from that place? Why does her anger look like that

[00:21:33] Olivia: Yeah, I, I was literally talking to my therapist about this today. Um, which by the way, I like, uh, recording on Tuesdays because I get therapy and then I get therapy. Um, but yeah, like, uh, in my therapist's office there's like, on the wall, there's, um, there's this series of like 10 or so posters that are like the different developmental stages.

Like there's like zero to one and like three to. You know, two to three or whatever. I don't know, I was describing something like a behavior, uh, and like if you look at that chart, you can like pinpoint it was like, oh, that is like a struggling with power thing.

And like that is, that develops at age, um, four to six. And it's like when, like in a, when when you're wrestling with something as an adult or when someone is wrestling with something as an adult that like shows up in the, in these ways, it's like you, it usually means that there was like some stunting at a certain age in their development.

Um, cuz it's perfectly appropriate for a four year old to be narcissistic and like, That's like exactly what they're supposed to be working on, you know? Or like that's what where they're supposed to be.

[00:22:57] Zach: Developing a sense of other people and, and the idea that other people, other people have feelings

[00:23:02] Olivia: yeah. And like you see a lot of people that, um, struggle with that and other things. Right. And it's like almost anything can be traced back to like, okay, where was your development? Like your developmental needs not met as a child. At what age? At what point in your development? I dunno. That's super interesting.

But like it Yeah, exactly. Does that feel like what you and Shelby were kind of talking

[00:23:28] Zach: Yeah, no, that's exactly it, and it

[00:23:30] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:23:30] Zach: is sort of what I'm talking about, or it feels connected to the dream location idea.

[00:23:36] Olivia: Yeah. It does. It totally does.

[00:23:39] Victor: Your therapist always has like charts and graphs and stuff. They're very visual therapist.

[00:23:45] Olivia: I love that. I need that. All of the diagrams send them my way,

[00:23:50] Victor: and then she'll come home and she'll be like, let me tell you about this diagram. My therapist should, and then she'll like sketch it out for me so that I can see the diagram.

[00:23:59] Zach: Are you also a visual learner?

[00:24:01] Victor: Uh, it helps. Yeah. Mostly because otherwise she's like, okay, so picture a line and then on the left side you see that says this, and then on the other side and it's like, yeah, just sketch that out for me.

[00:24:14] Zach: Yeah. I can't follow directions like that.

[00:24:17] Olivia: but yeah. Um, I don't know. I, I, I had always heard that like having kids, is the most triggering thing. Like if you, you should go to therapy before you do it. You should, like make sure you have a good understanding of your childhood trauma before you do it and while you're doing it and just ongoing because, um, they will trigger those things for you at every point.

And it's like, you know, watch, watching your own child grow up and like relating to where you were in your experiences at the age that they are. But like, I haven't even met this child yet. And I'm like, it's like bringing stuff up for me. And like, I, I think that's what those dreams taking place in my childhood home are about.

[00:25:01] Zach: That that makes sense. But it sounds like it's because it's bringing stuff up because you're doing the work. You know what I mean? Like it's not just by nature of it growing inside of you, or maybe it is, I don't know.

[00:25:15] Olivia: I mean, I think I, I'm, I think it's probably pretty clear that I'm like doing a lot of processing right now, but, um, but yeah, a lot of stuff is coming up for me and like, I think, it will continue to do so.


[00:25:31] Victor: But like, you're coming at it from a certain level of self-awareness while like, if you were less self-aware about it, you'd just be like, ah, I'm angry, angry now about things I wasn't angry about earlier. And like, no, you wouldn't be like working through why you're feeling what you're feeling.

[00:25:50] Olivia: Yeah. I'm, I'm doing my best. Yeah. But I, I do sometimes just feel like that. Yeah. Triggered.

[00:26:00] Victor: Yeah. A little bit of, that's okay.

[00:26:02] Zach: Did you have a specific dream you wanted to get into?

[00:26:05] Victor: All right. Let

[00:26:05] Olivia: All right. Let me look.

[00:26:07] Victor: Sorry,

[00:26:08] Olivia: I'm just laughing at my dream journal. I had one of the, I had like a classic, uh, pregnant lady dream where like, um, apparently I. Apparently it's super common, and I see this in like Facebook groups and like due date groups that I'm in. Everybody's having dreams about their, like, about their partner cheating on them.

And like that is never, like, I've never had those dreams before. And it makes sense that it's like you have like a primal anxiety about like making sure that your, you know, baby daddy's around, but um,

[00:26:45] Victor: she's doing this thing now where like, she'll be, she's napping a lot because she's pregnant and I'll just be like hanging out in the room and just doing my own thing and she's, she's like dead asleep.

But if I step outside of the room for a second, she's like, did you leave?

[00:27:04] Zach: you going?

[00:27:04] Victor: Where are you?

[00:27:05] Olivia: you

I don't notice you leaving. I like every time that's happened. That's happened a lot. I will. I will stand up and like, walk over to where you are. And he'll, he'll be like in the bathroom. It's like he literally just got up like two seconds ago and I'm like, did you, where did you go

[00:27:24] Victor: It's got like a sixth sense for when I'm out of the room now.

[00:27:28] Zach: Are you doing, are you doing the classic cheating dream thing where you're like still kind of mad at him when you wake up

[00:27:36] Victor: She did the other day. Yeah.

[00:27:37] Olivia: gonna say the other morning I got up, I was like, I'm mad at you. yeah. 

dream start

[00:27:45] Olivia: Yeah. Okay. Um, I have a dream. I have no idea what this is about. Uh, and I need a pseudonym for a male dream character.

[00:27:58] Zach: Jarvis

[00:27:59] Victor: whoop

[00:28:00] Zach: penins,

[00:28:02] Victor: Joe Camel.

[00:28:05] Olivia: All right. Um,

[00:28:07] Victor: C Clappy,

[00:28:09] Zach: Tramadol

[00:28:12] Olivia: is that a medication?

[00:28:13] Zach: sounds like one.

[00:28:15] Victor: It does. Cocaine, the guy,

[00:28:19] Zach: is a bit that

[00:28:21] Victor: cocaine,

[00:28:22] Olivia: The guy,

[00:28:23] Zach: I have a buddy that I do this bit with, like for way too long at a time. Or we will just like prote, like, it's like a, like the bit is you're calling someone like to the like customer service desk, like over the intercom, a place and you're like, Whitley, Whitley to the front, please.

Whitley. And you just make up the dumbest name you can think of like on the spot that still kinda has the cadence of a name.

[00:28:49] Victor: mm-hmm.

[00:28:50] Olivia: I had a bit like that with, um, one of my roommates when I was like 19, but we would just, the bit was exactly that, but we would open the microwave and yell it into the microwave. Mm-hmm.

[00:29:02] Zach: That's, that's the next level.

[00:29:05] Olivia: okay. I'm gonna call this person Frank.

[00:29:07] Victor: That wasn't any of our ideas.

[00:29:09] Olivia: Yeah. I can't, I can't call him Tramadol. still. Okay.

Okay, Frank. Okay. Um, so this dream takes place at, um, the house I grew up in and I was working with an old man to like do some landscaping on part of the property, and he sent me a message to meet him at nine 40. And I, I was running late and I wasn't sure if he wanted to meet online.

And then I realized of course it's in person cuz we're landscaping. And so I was trying to get ready really fast and it was like I was in the house and I was just meeting him outside. Um, earlier in the dream butt dialed Frank, who is somebody that, um, I used to be good friends with, who, um, I like had a bit of a falling out with because this person, like very, uh, 

it got weird. They made it weird. Um, but, so I had like butt dialed this person who I'm like no longer speaking to really, um, anyway. I look at my phone and I have a missed call from a number that I don't know, and I think it's maybe the old man that I'm trying to meet.

And so I call it back and it's Frank, and he's like rapping at me. He is like, I don't, I don't even remember. It was like nonsense, like rapping at me. Like he was trying to sound really cool and I just said, oh my God, can you get the fuck out of my life? And, um, I blocked his number and then I go out onto the deck.

And this is interesting. Um, this is why I picked this dream. I go out onto the deck and I'm trying to take the stairs down to the backyard, but the stairs had been replaced with a ladder. Sound familiar from episode five in Shelby's Dream.

[00:31:15] Zach: Oh yeah.

[00:31:17] Victor: Um,

[00:31:18] Olivia: And it looked like precarious. Like it looked like I shouldn't. Put weight on it. So instead of taking the ladder, I took a ramp. There was a ramp on the other side of the deck. and I got, and then I looked at my phone and I got a text from the old man and it, it said, hackamore him isn't here yet with like a little emoji of an outdoorsman kind of guy.


[00:31:48] Zach: That's the pseudonym we should use for Frank.

[00:31:50] Olivia: hackamore hymn. Um,

[00:31:53] Victor: and

[00:31:53] Olivia: I wrote earlier in the Dream, there was something about kids, I remember earlier in the dream, like being in the like clear cut area where we were doing some landscaping and there was a toddler that I was maybe responsible for and like trying to keep like tabs on.

I don't know. I can't, I can't quite remember. But that's the dream.

[00:32:13] Zach: So did you get a sense of who Hackamore Ham is?

[00:32:16] Olivia: Nope.

[00:32:17] Zach: Oh,

[00:32:19] Victor: Um, why, why were you going down the, the ramp stairs? What, what were you trying to get to?

[00:32:25] Olivia: I was trying to meet the old man

[00:32:27] Victor: You were trying to meet the old man?

[00:32:28] Olivia: cuz we were, um, landscaping.

[00:32:31] Zach: you pointed out the, the rope ladder parallel with Shelby's Dream. Um, we've also talked about old men. A number of times,

[00:32:41] Olivia: yeah, that's true. Um, yeah, the, the latter. It was interesting cuz like, What I remember, stairs are like incremental process or progress and a ladder is like faster progress. Um,


Yeah, maybe

[00:33:01] Zach: I don't know if that was part of it actually,

[00:33:02] Olivia: I'm also realizing there was a ladder in my alligator show dream

[00:33:07] Zach: was perched on stairs

[00:33:09] Olivia: that was perched downstairs.


[00:33:11] Zach: and my, I had a dream about an old man that I pushed downstairs.

[00:33:16] Olivia: right. That's so interesting. Sick.

yeah, but I, I ended up not taking the stairs or the ladder at all and I, I went the long way. I went the long way down the ramp, which to me feels like. That was the safe way to go, even though it took a little more time. And even though I was late

[00:33:37] Victor: It says, uh, elderly people represent experience or the wisdom to know better having been there and done that, re-experiencing a similar situation. Um, and then old men specifically may reflect experience as asserting yourself or embarrassing others.

[00:33:57] Olivia: I didn't have any negative feelings about this old man. He seemed like,

yeah, like I, I had a good working relationship with him.

[00:34:06] Zach: gonna say, it sounded like a coworker.

[00:34:08] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:34:10] Victor: Yeah. I think the, the idea of like experience or like maybe going through the same thing again and knowing better now kinda makes sense. I'm sorry, I feel like I got kind of jumbled while you were telling the, how did Frank play into this?

[00:34:23] Olivia: So earlier in the dream, I had like butt dialed Frank.

[00:34:27] Victor: Okay.

[00:34:28] Olivia: Um, and then he like called me back, like, I don't know what that was


[00:34:34] Zach: you say you missed that call, but you didn't know the number so you called it back

[00:34:39] Olivia: oh yes, that's correct. I thought that maybe the old man was calling me or something. So I called it back and he was, he was

[00:34:46] Zach: And he started freestyling it. Yeah.

[00:34:48] Olivia: yeah. And I like yelled at him to get the fuck out of my life.

[00:34:52] Zach: Which is such a crazy like, oh, she's finally like calling me back. Now's my chance.

[00:34:59] Victor: Yeah.

[00:35:00] Olivia: Okay. So that actually, okay, here's your context. Uh, this person, like I was very, I was good friends with this person and we had like a good working relationship actually, um, for a long time. And, um, I was in a relationship for a long time and, when I, I ended that relationship, like this person was like hinting that they like, wanted to like talk to me about something, but it was like, this person should have really known that that was never, that was never on the table.

Like I told them, like I told him when that came up, please don't make our friendship weird. I really, I don't think I wanna hear what you have to say here, so let's just keep this chill.

Like, I overtly said that to this person. And they're like, oh, no, no, no, it's actually fine. It's not what you think, but it was what I thought. They sent me like a letter that was like, actually they followed me to a movie theater sat next to me when I was with a friend for the whole movie.

And then like gave me this letter at the end and it was like deranged. It was like, it was, um, yeah. Okay. Anyway.

[00:36:24] Zach: Don't worry. It's chill though.

[00:36:27] Olivia: It was chill. He said It's chill and it's mostly philosophical. Um, but it was like a love confession, which I had made very clear, was not welcome, and I wanted to remain friends. And so,

[00:36:40] Zach: Were 

[00:36:40] Olivia: So when you said

[00:36:41] Zach: when this happened?

[00:36:42] Olivia: no, yeah, it was like in my mid twenties when this happened. Um,

[00:36:48] Victor: so

[00:36:50] Olivia: it was a lot. And it, I was like, I upset because I had felt like I was really clear in that about setting boundaries about this and this person, like totally disregarded what I had requested and like, Made our friendship weird and made it so that I don't feel like I could be friends with this person because this letter was fucking crazy.

It was like, we're soul bonded for a thousand years and I'm Jesus. And it was weird.

[00:37:19] Zach: Oh, I, I, I, sorry. I, I know, uh, I have a couple female friends that have had this exact,

[00:37:26] Victor: Oh, okay.

[00:37:26] Olivia: That that exact, that rings a bell.

[00:37:30] Zach: yeah. Mid turning into 

[00:37:31] Victor: a universal experience.

[00:37:33] Zach: yeah, I think it's called like Jerusalem syndrome or something.

[00:37:37] Victor: What?

[00:37:37] Zach: Um, when guys think they're, Jesus, I mean, because it, it often happens in Jerusalem when they see the. You know, the beginning of mankind. I'm also, I, I could be wrong. I could be like saying the wrong name of the wrong thing, or like conflating two things. But, but yeah, I've had at least one female friend and one ex that have had, um, male friends come at them with this, like, we're soulmates. I literally, I am Jesus, and I've known you from another life where

[00:38:13] Olivia: What,

[00:38:14] Zach: it's a thing.

[00:38:16] Olivia: what the 


[00:38:17] Zach: a, it's some kind of mental condition or some sort of,

[00:38:20] Olivia: it? Yeah, no, for sure. That's why I feel a little weird, like talking about this, but, um,

[00:38:25] Zach: well, clearly it could be anybody.

[00:38:26] Olivia: I, it could be, and I also, like, I haven't like gone around telling everyone about this, so like, I think their identity is fairly protected. I

don't want to like shame

[00:38:38] Zach: Frank's not listening. He's over in the Middle East.

Walking through a fountain claiming he's on top of the water.

[00:38:44] Olivia: right. so yeah. When you said, like, when you like described that reaction of like, oh, well sh she called me, I gotta give, I gotta call her back. It felt like reminiscent of like, oh, Olivia's single, I've gotta confess my love for her. And um,

[00:39:02] Zach: In freestyle

[00:39:02] Olivia: me off Yes. In this weird, okay. Yeah, I think the wrapping was like maybe about the letter cuz it felt like, and then my reaction to it was, how I kind of reacted to the, to the letter was that like, you've crossed a boundary that I felt was clear and like, I'm angry at you,

[00:39:25] Victor: you,

[00:39:26] Olivia: but, so I don't know why I'd be dreaming about this.

Like, this is such a random thing for me to be dreaming about.

[00:39:32] Victor: Do you wanna hear the rap music entry in the dream bible? Sure.

[00:39:36] Olivia: Let's do it.

[00:39:37] Victor: So the general paragraph is to dream of rap. Music represents feeling emotions expressed that feel good, showing off, feeling, being the best, being arrogant or putting down others to feel good about yourself.

Feelings of superiority, bragging, or an overinflated sense of power. Winning first, feeling good, being bigger than others, like nothing else matters and then negatively may reflect you or someone else that is too concerned with feeling good thinking. They're the biggest or most powerful. Overdone thinking people are losers if they don't notice winning all the time.

I don't know what that means. Faking feeling good, being a winner all the time. Impotence to win that doesn't do anything except feel good, being best, loudest,

[00:40:22] Olivia: faking feeling good being a winner all the time. Reminds me of, what we were talking about with like ego death. I, like you and I were talking about this last week where it's like, it feels like there is a lesson to be learned. There, like , when people have the experience of like taking a bunch of hallucinogens and like going to a place where they realize that everyone is, is one and the same, and like, you know, we're all God or whatever.

There's a, there's a, a glimmer of truth there, but then people seem to come away with it, like in that, in like a sole istic place where it's like, oh I am God.

[00:40:59] Victor: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:00] Olivia: And it kind of feels like that's not the death of the ego. Like we were talking about this. Like it feels like that's the wrong term for it because it almost feels like you get a super ego out of it, you know?

[00:41:13] Victor: yeah. It's like your ego feels that it's in danger and so it has like a defense mechanism to like blow up real big.

Like actually you're the most important thing that's ever existed.

[00:41:21] Olivia: Yeah. It's like it bends hard the other way. But that is relevant because, um, a little more context here is that, uh, part of, part of the letter that I received from Frank was about how they had had an, an ego death on mushrooms and that they realized that, that we were like soul bonded and that they like, he was God.

And like I was, I don't know. It was a lot. 

[00:41:56] Zach: Yeah. Cuz if you start believing that you're the center of the universe, like if you're that important, the royal you, then your feelings for whoever you're feeling them for those feelings are the most important feelings that have ever happened.

[00:42:14] Olivia: Right. Well, and

[00:42:16] Zach: It's not just a crush anymore, it's cosmic.

[00:42:18] Victor: mm-hmm.

[00:42:19] Olivia: I think what was like,

[00:42:22] Victor: I, I

[00:42:23] Olivia: have empathy for this person. Like I don't, I I understand that. Like

[00:42:27] Zach: Oh yeah. We're not trying to shit on the mentally ill.

[00:42:29] Olivia: I'm not, no, I'm really not. But that is what this was. And, and, um, they didn't just trip balls and like have this realization that like happened five years before and they had been walking around, like being my, like, friends with me and like, uh, like kind of carrying this weird, like,

[00:42:50] Zach: Torch.

[00:42:51] Victor: mm-hmm.


[00:42:52] Olivia: It just, it made me uncomfortable. I didn't wanna hear that. I wanted to continue on being friends with this person, and it's like kind of impossible to do that after.

[00:43:02] Zach: yeah.

[00:43:03] Olivia: Hearing that. So, but again, I don't really know why I'm dreaming, like why I dreamed about this and like how it ties in to the rest of

[00:43:12] Zach: Yeah. I mean, you're also dreaming about Victor cheating on you, which you never did before.

[00:43:17] Olivia: Right.

[00:43:17] Zach: So there's all sorts of. I'm not saying those two things are related other than that they're current, but they do maybe both seem like things you would've maybe dreamt about a while back. I don't know.

[00:43:29] Olivia: How so?

[00:43:30] Zach: I dunno. They just seem like things that would maybe be irrelevant. Now, logically speaking, like you, you made the point that it, there's something in your monkey brain that like would worry about your provider leaving you now at your most vulnerable. That explains the cheating dreams now. But logically, you know that this would be like the, the last time Victor would ever do that.

[00:43:52] Olivia: Right.

[00:43:54] Zach: same thing with this, it would make more sense for you to dream about this a while ago when it, maybe, when it was actually happening. Or when you, when you, it was at least fresh on your mind or in your

[00:44:03] Olivia: and I'm sure I did. I I'm certain that I did. Uh, it is interesting that it like, came up again this

[00:44:09] Zach: Yeah, so

[00:44:10] Olivia: but, but yeah, I think that the, the phone call and that whole situation, cuz it, it was really just like a brief moment in this dream. It was like a blip in this dream that, that happened. It happened in the middle of this whole other thing that was happening.

But that feels like, in like a, it feels like a little a, in a nutshell that it was that whole situation just like, as like a blip in time almost.

[00:44:34] Zach: so I guess the parallel I'm trying to draw is that like, maybe you're, the reason you're dreaming about it now is your brain is like, maybe cuz you're going through therapy like, like in anticipation of the baby, your brain is digging deep on stuff that you haven't thought about in a while.

[00:44:49] Olivia: \ We, I guess we were, I had, I think I had this dream after we talked a few weeks ago about hallucinations on the pod. Um,

[00:44:59] Victor: Um,

[00:45:00] Olivia: so that might have brought that up. And then, um,

maybe I would like to gestalt the old man.

[00:45:10] Zach: Oh yeah. Let's bring him back into it real quick. I was gonna say the, did it feel like a freestyle rap or a written rap?

[00:45:18] Olivia: Yeah, it literally started with Yo Yoyo.

[00:45:20] Zach: Oh, so free freestyle, because that the letter, as you describe it sounds, um, what is it, what, what do you call it? Stream of consciousness,

[00:45:29] Olivia: Yeah, it very much was.

[00:45:31] Zach: the freestyle of, of letters.

[00:45:33] Olivia: it was very, it was a hasty decision. A has hastily written letter. Um,

[00:45:40] Zach: In the parking lot at the movie theater,

[00:45:42] Olivia: yeah, I think so. Cuz like I had, I had told him several times like, cuz he kept bringing that up, like that he wanted to talk and I was like, I don't want to hear this. And so instead he like found, found out where I was like on Snap, like on Snapchat and like showed up.

It was a lot man. It was weird.

[00:46:05] Zach: media is scary.

[00:46:07] Olivia: Yeah. 

[00:46:08] Victor: You ready?

[00:46:09] Olivia: Uh, yeah, gimme a sec. Okay.

[00:46:13] Victor: Okay. My purpose is,

[00:46:17] Olivia: Uh, to lead the project.

[00:46:22] Victor: My goal is

[00:46:25] Olivia: To do it right.

[00:46:26] Victor: My biggest fear is,

[00:46:29] Olivia: Can we come back?

[00:46:31] Victor: I love.

[00:46:33] Olivia: Being helpful,

[00:46:34] Victor: I hate

[00:46:37] Olivia: uh, doing a bad job.

[00:46:41] Victor: I desire, or I wish.

[00:46:44] Olivia: To connect,

[00:46:47] Victor: My biggest fear is

[00:46:49] Olivia: um, being left alone.

[00:46:54] Victor: Okay, so my purpose is to lead the project. My goal is to do it right. My biggest fear is being left alone. I love being helpful. I hate doing a bad job and I desire to connect.

[00:47:10] Olivia: that feels right. I was having a hard time with, uh, the, like negatives there. Like I had a hard time with ha I hate too. Um, and I remember I, the last time we did Gestalt, I had a hard time on that. Or like, I, I just, nothing was coming to me and I thought maybe that was like specific to that dream character.

It was the, um, the wobbly room one. But I wonder if like, maybe I have like a little bit of a block going there,

[00:47:42] Victor: You might, but I also, um, what, what were you trying to do with the dream character again?

You were like, um, cleaning something up or

[00:47:50] Olivia: we were doing some landscaping.

[00:47:52] Victor: right?

[00:47:53] Olivia: It was like we had like kind of clear cut an area. Um,

[00:47:57] Victor: I wonder if landscaping has a meaning in the dream Bible. You would clear cut an area.

[00:48:02] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:48:03] Zach: Yeah, since every character is you, I feel like it could be that you have a block against, uh, negativity. When just salting, or it could just be a coincidence that you, um, have happened to choose to choose two characters back to back that aren't negative characters.

[00:48:25] Olivia: Yeah. It, it just feels to me like a negative, like a, even a positive character should maybe be able to answer that. Like, I don't know it, this last time it felt like a little bit, like, it felt a little bit like sometimes in therapy when, like if I'm asked a certain question that's like 

Prodding at something in particular. Like, it kind of feels like my, like, mind goes a little blank and like, it's like, no, don't, don't worry about that.

[00:48:55] Victor: Well, I think, um, I know it's easy for me to like tie this to like a parental dream. Yeah. You've been having those, right? And like, and like, not finding much as far as like landscaping as close as I got is like gardening. Um, but, um, it makes sense of like, like these answers of like leading the project and doing it right.

Feel like maybe how you're feeling about like your preparation for parenthood responsibilities and the idea of like, tending the landscape as like, you know, you're kind of like preparing. You're trying, you're trying to get like everything sorted. Internally and mentally and, and situationally to be prepared for, being a parent, you know?

And so this could, maybe this old man that represents wisdom is maybe a, like, you know, trying to guide you through, like cleaning up your mental environment or something.

[00:49:55] Olivia: Yeah. And assertiveness, uh, I think is a big thing for me right now. Um, as we've talked about in past episodes where like I'm working on setting boundaries with people and like being, um, you know, uh, standing by what like decisions we make as parents and like not letting outside people influence us.

[00:50:20] Zach: Isn't that a thing with the old man

[00:50:23] Olivia: yeah.

[00:50:24] Zach: is assertiveness.

[00:50:25] Olivia: Yes.

[00:50:26] Victor: yeah. Um,

[00:50:27] Olivia: Um, And then also the, the stairs and ladder thing felt like, like I could get down there really fast on that ladder, but it was like, um, it was not the safest way to go.

[00:50:41] Victor: go. Yeah. And I mean, I think we probably both feel some kind of time pressure, right? Of like getting everything ready before we have become parents, right? So, um, something we've talked about is like, um, you've been kind of feeling like, okay, we need to do all the therapy now before we have the baby, you know?

Yeah. So like, if this represents kind of like your, you're feeling a need to like hit some mental health milestones or like some, like whatever it is, um, That maybe it's like you feeling a tension between doing it right and rushing to it before or holding a baby.

[00:51:28] Olivia: yeah, that, that's interesting. Like, it feels like there is no rushing therapy, especially like childhood work, right? Like inner child work or whatever. Um, you wanna call it the, like, working through childhood trauma, you're not, there's no possible way to rush that.

[00:51:49] Victor: Yeah. Um,

[00:51:50] Olivia: is a slow, ongoing process and, um, that's not happening.

I'm not gonna like, have that sorted before the baby's here, so,

[00:52:00] Zach: rushing an archeological dig, like find the bones faster.

[00:52:05] Olivia: right.

[00:52:06] Victor: Yeah. I mean, I was gonna tackle my childhood trauma this weekend, but like it was gonna take all weekend.

[00:52:12] Zach: There was work stuff and you're kind of sleepy on Sunday.

[00:52:17] Victor: Right. But yeah, so like in this case, it's like taking the ladder in therapy. If that's, if if any of that connects is like maybe kind of a false choice, right? Cuz like what may feel like quick, like the quick route through therapy is actually just like not actually doing the work or burying some stuff that, uh, you are gonna pretend you've worked through for later.

You know? Yeah. It's not actually gonna deal with it, it's just you choosing not to deal with something right now.

[00:52:50] Olivia: Totally, yeah. Uh, like the ladder didn't even really feel like a choice in this dream. Like, it literally felt like a,

[00:52:58] Zach: Yeah.

[00:52:58] Olivia: cuz it wasn't even a la like, it wasn't even like a ladder that you could climb. It was like, so, um,

[00:53:04] Zach: say it was a rope ladder?

[00:53:06] Olivia: No, it was a regular ladder, but it was like, the way it was laid down was like, it was almost horizontal.

Like, like the slope was like, you couldn't climb down it. Like I would've had to walk on the, on the rungs of it, like, and just like walk down it like a ramp. But it was like the, there's huge gap, like holes between every step.

[00:53:29] Zach: taking the metaphor out of it and taking that at face value, like as a pregnant person, if you had to choose between that and a ramp, you would obviously choose the ramp. It's not 

[00:53:38] Olivia: Just as a person in general, honestly.

[00:53:41] Zach: Even.

[00:53:42] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:53:42] Victor: The, the latter was kind of a false choice. It's like, oh, you could do that, but like you're just gonna break your neck. Exactly.

[00:53:49] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:53:50] Victor: yeah, so like there's no rushing doing the work that needs to be done, even though you feel like a time pressure.

[00:53:57] Olivia: Right. Yeah. I, I think that's a good lesson to take from it. I don't, I still don't know why there was that little moment with Frank in the middle of this dream. 

[00:54:10] Victor: and yeah.

[00:54:11] Olivia: Open to any theories.

[00:54:13] Zach: Yeah, cuz the old man and the landscaping and the rope or the, uh, ladder, ramp, uh, choice, like those all make, make sense. Together

[00:54:24] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:54:24] Zach: can build a cohesive story out of that. 

[00:54:26] Olivia: And the, the isolated incident with Frank, like that moment of the dream feels like it's just an echo of that situation that happened. Um,

[00:54:38] Victor: well, so how did you, how'd you feel when you were talking to Frank?

[00:54:44] Olivia: Uh, like,

[00:54:45] Zach: Sounded annoyed, like I don't have time for your bullshit, is what you said.

[00:54:50] Olivia: yeah, no, I said, I said, get the fuck outta my life. Um, okay. Yeah. I felt triggered, annoyed, and like, shut the fuck up.

[00:55:08] Victor: Okay. So there are maybe areas in your life where you're feeling that way. Yeah.

[00:55:15] Olivia: he, he was trying real hard to be like super cool.

[00:55:19] Zach: On your way,

[00:55:21] Victor: yeah. And so maybe.

[00:55:23] Zach: like slowly and safely get to being the assertive old man that will build or landscape the perfect environment for this child. There was this annoyance,

[00:55:34] Victor: And it feels like an obstacle between you and the work that needs to be done, that you need to get to.

[00:55:41] Olivia: Yeah, and I w I did very much just like wave it away, like, and, and I blocked his number in the dream. Like I fully was just like, I'm not dealing with this. I've got other shit to do. I don't have time for this.

[00:55:54] Victor: And there are, um, yeah, I, I think that that's something that comes up occasionally is like, there'll be some, uh, like annoying relationship that is just like a real, like energy drain, you know? And, um, ends up eating a lot of time and energy and you might be feeling right now that you don't have space for that kind of thing to be eating up time and space for you because there's important stuff to be doing.

[00:56:24] Olivia: Yeah, yeah. I, I think, um,

[00:56:27] Victor: yeah,

[00:56:27] Zach: Are you thinking of specific things or a lot of just general commotion?

[00:56:33] Olivia: there's one specific thing. Yeah.

[00:56:35] Victor: But there's like, generally like, you know, there'll be,

[00:56:39] Zach: you don't want to get into it on the pod. Sorry to interrupt you, Victor. Victor.

[00:56:42] Olivia: Yeah. I think I'm gonna be vague about this one.

[00:56:45] Victor: I would argue that it's not one specific thing. Like you might have one thing in mind right now, but like, there's a pattern of like, oh, oh man, like this is, I have to deal with this person who's not being cool to me or whatever. Like that comes up and it's uh, like that kind of.

Energy drain.

[00:57:07] Olivia: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:08] Victor: You might be feeling that, like you can't deal with that the way you maybe have historically where you allow it to eat you alive.

[00:57:16] Zach: from the perspective of being on the ramp towards the job you're gonna do with the old man, it seems so asinine.

[00:57:24] Olivia: yeah. And, um,

[00:57:27] Victor: in

[00:57:27] Olivia: in therapy what has come up quite a bit is like you don't actually have to deal with that. Um, and that's like, I don't actually have to just put up with that. Like if it is not good for me, uh, that like there are emotional boundaries that I can and should put up and, and not just like sit and like endure something that is like draining and like, um,

[00:58:02] Victor: Not

[00:58:02] Olivia: for me.

And I, I don't, so I'm working on that. Like I'm working on figuring out how I do that, um, without cutting people out. Um, cuz I don't necessarily want to do that. Like in this situation, that is what I did in real life. That is what I felt like I had to do. And in the dream, I fully blocked this person's number and was like, no.

Um, but

[00:58:32] Zach: with that example makes sense.

[00:58:35] Olivia: yeah,

[00:58:36] Zach: Maybe that's why your brain reached for that example, is it's feeling like these other things are comparable, even whe whether or not they actually are. That's your feelings potentially on this genre of thing.

[00:58:49] Olivia: I feel like there is a way for me to do that. Like, and that the symbolic blocking of the number is not cutting somebody out, but. As much as it is like setting a boundary and not allowing that to take up space in my life, um, in a way that's going to take away from, um, everything else that I'm working on.

[00:59:16] Victor: on. I think maybe the reason why your brain would reach for that specific interaction is because sit, it was a situation in which you were unambiguously being treated badly. Like this person was like definitely crossing a line. You did not feel any like, um, uncertainty about that or like, oh, maybe I'm the problem or maybe I'm not.

You just like knew you, like you set a boundary. That boundary got crossed, you were done, right? Yeah. And, um, maybe you don't feel that way in similar situations. And so this was like the part of you that's trying to look for that, like that certainty.

[00:59:55] Olivia: Yeah. I think I struggle with that. Like I. In, in situations where upon reflection and like in, in like deconstructing and overanalyzing and like picking apart a situation for weeks and weeks and weeks, I finally like come to a place where I'm like, I wasn't treated very well

[01:00:19] Victor: Yeah, I do that too. And it's, we were talking today about how, um, sometimes, um, for, for some, some personality types I'll say, um, it's really hard to see yourself.

[01:00:33] Olivia: Yeah.

[01:00:34] Victor: And when it's really hard to see yourself, it's really hard to like see a situation objectively because there's always this like concern that like, oh, well maybe I didn't understand what I was doing or like how it would affect other people.

And so maybe I am the problem when there's a conflict because I can't see how I'm affecting other people or how I'm perceived by other people. Yes.

[01:00:57] Olivia: Totally.

[01:00:58] Victor: So you and I both are constantly, like, if there's a conflict, we're like, well, did I do something? Because it's hard to really see like what role you played in a thing.

[01:01:07] Olivia: mm-hmm.

[01:01:08] Zach: But the baby probably makes that different. You know what I mean? Like for your own sake, you should be able to draw these boundaries. But it's probably starker and easier to, to think about that when you as a person is carrying something that is another person that you're really invested in. So suddenly those boundaries become more important cuz it's, you're self blindness is less of a factor

[01:01:39] Olivia: that's true. I also like, yes, that, that feels really true. And I also, like, I brought this up like a couple episodes ago, but I don't love that for myself because it feels like I. It feels like another way of like, it feels like simultaneously prioritizing other people over my own needs and like putting, uh, like putting it on the baby.

Like being like, oh, well this person is more important than me. Um, that's a weird thing to like put on a baby.

[01:02:21] Victor: Yeah,

[01:02:21] Olivia: but

[01:02:21] Victor: there's a temptation. Like I think a, uh, a bad thing to do would be to, um, use the baby as a way to like leverage social situations because you're not comfortable standing up for your own boundaries. And so it becomes Oh, well because of the baby This, because of the baby. That, that's right.

And that's like putting something on the baby.

[01:02:44] Zach: that's what you would run the risk of happening if you were less self-aware.

[01:02:47] Olivia: Yeah, I, I do think that it's like a thing that, because I'm worried about it, I'm gonna also be like hyper aware about not doing it. Um, but it, yeah. No, I think you're right. I think that is how the frank part connects and it clicks right in there, doesn't it?

[01:03:05] Victor: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:06] Olivia: Thanks for that husband

[01:03:10] Victor: No problem. Wife

[01:03:12] Zach: And Zack too.

[01:03:14] Olivia: and

[01:03:14] Victor: you 


[01:03:16] Zach: I was here, uh, it feels good to, potentially, mostly solve an Olivia dream. I feel like a lot of times, at least for the past, for the past few weeks or, or however many Olivia episodes, uh, you've felt dissatisfied with the, with the route.

[01:03:33] Victor: Yeah,

[01:03:33] Olivia: that, that really felt like it all tied together,

[01:03:37] Victor: And even before the Dream Bible, like that was like the oldest tool in the tool belt is like, well how did that make you feel? Right. You know, there's always like, if it doesn't make sense on its surface, like, like investigating, um, how something feels in a dream, it'll usually tell you more than like the literal meaning.

[01:03:56] Olivia: Yeah,

[01:03:56] Zach: And you just salted it. Use all the tools today.

[01:03:59] Olivia: We used three tools

[01:04:01] Zach: That's all the tools.

[01:04:03] Victor: I'm

[01:04:03] Olivia: a handyman.

[01:04:06] Zach: Ooh, that was my Tim, the tool man. Impression. 


[01:04:13] Zach: Uh, I just learned today about the Archer Fish. This has nothing to do with anything, but do you guys know about this?

[01:04:49] Olivia: No.

[01:04:50] Zach: It's a fish that,

[01:04:51] Victor: shoot?

[01:04:52] Zach: it collects water in its mouth and then it like, puts its lips just outside the surface of the water and shoots it like a squirt gun, and it will knock bugs out off of, uh, bushes and stuff into the water and then eat the bug.

[01:05:03] Victor: awesome. That's

[01:05:05] Zach: I could watch footage of this thing hunting all day.

[01:05:08] Olivia: There's 

[01:05:09] Victor: shrimp, I think it's called like the bullet shrimp or some shit. Yeah. And it like claps, its little claw at such a speed that it like shoots a water bullet out that like kills shit in the water.

[01:05:20] Zach: I wanna see a documentary that's just all of these weird, these animals with

[01:05:25] Victor: the projectiles? Yeah.

[01:05:26] Zach: and like, just weird hunting techniques. Uh, I recently, recently learned about the Shrike, the bird. The bird. It's a bird. It's a little, a cute little song, bird. It makes pleasant little music,

[01:05:41] Victor: Mm-hmm.

[01:05:42] Zach: uh, but the way it hunts and it'll hunt other birds and like mammals and shit, and it's only like this big, it'll pick 'em up and impale them on a branch. So,

[01:05:53] Victor: like thorns.

[01:05:54] Zach: So the other strikes can like gradually pick away at it. It's like the most metal thing I've ever heard of, and it's this adorable little songbird,

[01:06:02] Victor: Was that like a thing about Hyperion?

[01:06:06] Zach: was Hyperion

[01:06:07] Victor: I literally, I just like watched a video that was like, this is what a strike is, and this is how it connects to this like sci-fi monster in this book. It was a book that I read in like middle school,

[01:06:19] Zach: called Hyperion.

[01:06:21] Victor: Hyperion? Yeah,

[01:06:23] Zach: Cause I've heard that word, but I didn't know what it meant, what it was.

[01:06:25] Victor: Yeah. It's a sci-fi book. It's also where I got like my gamer tag that I use for,

[01:06:32] Olivia: Wait, what's your game or tag? I

[01:06:34] Victor: always name stuff Keats when I'm naming stuff for video games, and it's because. Well it is, but there's a whole thing in that book, which is like, they, it's like a sci-fi, John Keats. I don't know.

That's where I picked up that name.

[01:06:47] Olivia: you guys wanna hear something funny? And by you guys, I mean Zach and the listeners.

[01:06:52] Zach: Are, are people listening right

[01:06:54] Victor: going? Are we back?

[01:06:55] Olivia: Yeah.

[01:06:56] Victor: You have that power. Oh God. She's editing. She's editing.

[01:07:00] Zach: Oh, no. What have I said? Retract, abort. I didn't mean it.

[01:07:05] Olivia: Victors. Xbox Live name. I like, I laughed at it cuz I thought like, oh that's funny. Um, it's burdensome child.

[01:07:19] Victor: And

[01:07:19] Olivia: And like, I was like, oh, that's cute.

He made that when he was 10.

[01:07:26] Zach: Yeah, I

[01:07:27] Olivia: little

[01:07:27] Victor: It's funnier when I 

[01:07:28] Olivia: year old burdensome child.

[01:07:33] Zach: oh, burdensome.

[01:07:34] Victor: Yeah.

[01:07:35] Zach: I heard bird and some child

[01:07:38] Victor: Oh, that's better.

[01:07:39] Zach: like they're like a bird was playing and then some 

[01:07:41] Olivia: No, like

the child is a burden.

[01:07:45] Zach: Victor, that's rough.

[01:07:47] Victor: It's really

[01:07:47] Olivia: sad. But it's also funny.

[01:07:50] Zach: I haven't played a video game in years, but when I did it was probably around the same age and all of my tagard, whatever names, my screen names were, uh, just from system of A down songs. Cuz that's what I was listening to.

[01:08:06] Olivia: That's fun.

[01:08:08] Zach: Uh. By the way, the idea of like not knowing that we're on air and like apologizing for whatever I've said, made me think of this bit that I came up with the other day with Shelby. Uh, that's like, it's like a senator, uh, holding a press conference to apologize, uh, for something. But it's like he's treating with the gravity of like a huge mistake, but it's like really small. So he is like, I would like to express my deepest apologies and regrets for when I said that beards are just contour our makeup for men. I would especially like to extend my condolences to my constituent when I said that his face looks like an upside down Chewbacca and that without it, he looks like a thumb with ears.

[01:09:00] Victor: That's pretty good.

[01:09:01] Zach: Yeah. Then someone in the crowd's like, but Senator, what about when you said the FX is, the bear was overrated. stand by that one. Jeremy Allen White is a great actor.

[01:09:14] Olivia: Oh God. I had a nightmare featuring him last night.

[01:09:17] Victor: Oh yeah. He was like a murderer, right? Or

[01:09:19] Olivia: he like held me hostage in a cult last night

[01:09:23] Victor: Oh yeah. In apartment. Been having cult dreams.

[01:09:26] Zach: Have you been watching the Bear?

[01:09:28] Olivia: No,

[01:09:29] Victor: We watched like a couple episodes.

[01:09:31] Olivia: heard is good.

[01:09:32] Victor: Yeah, I

[01:09:32] Olivia: I think it

[01:09:33] Zach: it was good too, but I 

[01:09:35] Olivia: from what we saw, it

[01:09:36] Zach: on this one. 

[01:09:39] Victor: Mess with the Bear. You get the sh strike thorns

[01:09:44] Olivia: Mess with the sh strike. You get the spike.

[01:09:47] Zach: Ooh. metal

Thank you for listening to the Jung and the restless. You can follow us on social media at the Jung and the restless pod and submit your dreams for interpretation to the Jung and the restless pod at gmail.

[01:10:01] Victor: And as we always say, that's a spicy a meatball.

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