EPISODE

32. Grubby Grabby Tickle Fingers

Victor’s un-Google-able project, Deesser, has a new song out. Zach gives an update from his world. Olivia is in a…...

Victor’s un-Google-able project, Deesser, has a new song out. Zach gives an update from his world. Olivia is in a holding pattern with pregnancy. A discussion on home birth leads the Dream Team from foreign Pop Tarts to inhaling credit cards. Olivia shares a dream about stoic centaurs and a sinister clown, and it what it probably means in relation to her baby anxieties. 

0:00 Intro

00:28 Victor’s Music 

3:41 Zach’s World

9:51 Pregnancy talk

20:46 Olivia’s Dream

1:12 Follow up about inhaling a credit card

About Dream Bible:

Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams.  Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.

http://www.dreambible.com/

Dream Bible entries used in this episode:

Forests: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Forests

Library: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=library

Centaurs: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=centaurs

Children: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=children

Tickled: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Tickled

Clowns: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=clown

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Check out our website for episode transcripts: https://thejungandtherestlesspodcast.com/

Submit your dreams for interpretation to thejungandtherestlesspod@gmail.com


Episode Transcript

32. Grubby Grabby Tickle Fingers

[00:00:00] Zach: Welcome to the Jung and the Restless. I'm Zach. 

[00:00:03] Victor: I'm Olivia. And I'm Victor. And this is the podcast where your mind is a beam of light, bouncing in a prism of bullshit.

[00:00:28] Olivia: Yeah, I 

[00:00:28] Zach: really love this song. Thank you. Two lives. But it was funny, I didn't watch the video and song together. Oh, you sent me the video and for whatever reason, wherever I was when you sent it, I couldn't do audio. So I like watched the visual silently because it just automatically plays in, in the, in my text messaging app.

Uh, and then I listened to the song separately. Cause I saw you had it on the, on the drive. Oh, it's on the drive. On the drive? Yeah. It's on our, it's on our Dream Team drive. I went in there to edit and I was like, oh, hey, this song, I should listen to that. 

[00:01:01] Victor: What? I wonder why that is. How did it get there?

[00:01:03] Zach: Well, oh, I don't know. Maybe let's put it on your personal 

[00:01:06] Olivia: drive. I think it's because I made an, an Instagram visual and I must have accessed it cuz you shared the Google Drive link with me. So I must have been logged into tj. 

[00:01:18] Zach: Gotcha. Tj. 

[00:01:20] Victor: Yeah. Well this was not the original, uh, creative intention of Tim when he created that video.

Oh, did Tim make that video? He made the 

[00:01:28] Zach: video, yeah. Oh, that was sick. I was gonna ask if you made it, Olivia. Nah, 

[00:01:33] Victor: Olivia's been doing all the album art though. We've been doing like a bunch of variations for, uh, singles and stuff. Yeah. Fun on the jackal. 

[00:01:41] Zach: Fun. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:01:43] Victor: Nice. Yeah, and she just, she just.

Cranked another one out today. I was like, baby, I need, I need art. I need it fast. And she's like, no problem. And made like a new thing for it. Thank you very much. I appreciate you. You're, 

[00:01:58] Olivia: you're so welcome. And, uh, should plug you if you, if you listeners wanna go check out Victor's music, you can find him on Spotify and Band camp.

[00:02:08] Victor: Yeah. It's a little bit of a weird name. It's Deser, uh, which is D dash e s scr r like the, if you do any recording, it's like the tool 

[00:02:18] Zach: Deser. Yeah, yeah. The vocal. Yeah. I guess it's not really an effect. It's more like a 

[00:02:23] Victor: tool. Yeah. I, I guess, uh, something within me was like, become unog able and so that's what I did.

Yeah. Deser nothing. Wait, deser music, fuck nothing. 

[00:02:40] Zach: Uh, I remember when I. When I was like learning how to record stuff, I didn't, I don't know. Uh, growing up I was like the kid that tried to build the Lego castle without reading the instructions. Mm-hmm. And that was my same approach to recording. I didn't like look stuff up or ask anybody.

I just kind of went on intuition and it took me way longer to figure certain things out than it should have. For a long time I thought a deser was like, I remember trying to use it to see if I could like get rid of my, my lisp in, in my vocal tracks. Cause I was like, it's gotta get rid of the s Right.

Like, 

[00:03:12] Olivia: makes 

[00:03:12] Victor: it worse. I definitely, I, I used it a lot when I was trying to make that first album cuz it was like all like shitty tape and bad recording equipment and just like garbage quality. And so yes, it was very necessary. 

[00:03:28] Zach: I'm still not sure I could explain in like technical terms what it does, but I 

[00:03:32] Victor: can't, I absolutely can't.

It makes some of the hissy noise go away. I don't 

[00:03:37] Zach: know. Yeah. Smooths out the sharp edges kinda 

[00:03:41] Victor: has step and Zach world going good. 

[00:03:43] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Shelby just left yesterday. Um, so it's, you know, back to the like lame part of the routine. Mm-hmm. Um, which is just like going to work and shit, but other than that, good.

Yeah, for sure. Plugging away at like, saving up enough money to really start looking for 

[00:04:04] Victor: apartments. Are you like, uh, still kind of hunting for pod jobs or are you kind of stable right now, what you're doing? 

[00:04:13] Zach: Uh, Yeah. Yeah. I'm job hunting. Um, well, I've kind, I'm splitting my attention when I'm job hunting between like, jobs that I want and like, cuz there's a good chance we move to, uh, long Beach, which is, which is like 30 minutes on a good day from here.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and so with my current, like I have two jobs and, and you know, obviously the, the awesome one working for Weaponized the podcast and then plug that, that's, I'm, I'm the, I don't, I don't think I've mentioned it on the pod on this podcast before. Um, but I'm, uh, you know, en engineer for Weaponized with, with Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp.

So I'll be doing that no matter where I live. Cuz that's the cool one. 

[00:04:57] Victor: Just a very cool podcast. That's really good. I'm, I'm a fan. I, I get, I'm always checking out new episodes when they drop. Yeah. If 

[00:05:04] Olivia: you're into UFOs, go check that out. Yeah. 

[00:05:09] Zach: Um, and then the, I have another job that's, You know, whatever, uh, mundane, kinda low paying, but consistent.

Gotcha. And so if we move down to Long Beach, I'll be, I'm not gonna commute for that shit, so I'm, I'm also spending some of my time looking at kinda lateral moves. That would be a short commute from Long Beach. 

[00:05:28] Victor: Right. Gotcha. For some reason, I thought you were still working at the other podcast job and so like maybe you were trying to swap that out with something else, but.

Okay. That makes sense. I am, 

[00:05:39] Zach: I, I'm still employed at that, at that place. Oh, okay. And that, that's, um, that's how I, I met Jeremy and George. Um, and I still work there on the weekends, but the, the bulk of my work life is spent doing something else. Gotcha. 

[00:05:53] Victor: Um, so you're like full up on work right now, but have to like, shuffle stuff around a little 

[00:05:57] Zach: bit.

Yeah. And if I could replace the lame job with something cool, you know, um, probably not gonna be as cool as weaponized, but if it could at least be in the podcasting world, that would be ideal. Right. Um, so that's where, you know, I'm, I'm using those search terms first on Indeed podcast engineering, blah, blah, blah.

Um, but when we get closer to like actually having to make a move, I might have to just do something, um, or else put a bunch of miles on my car for no good reason. Yeah, that makes sense. And that's Zack World update. All very exciting stuff. Every time I talk to my parents on the phone, I'm like, Nope. Still nothing new.

[00:06:38] Victor: don't, I don't mean to be like channeling your dad or whatever. Like, what are you up to, Zach? 

[00:06:43] Zach: No, I talked to them way less frequently than you guys is my point. That it's like, yeah, I mean, it feels like, it's like eventually going to, like, a bunch of stuff is gonna happen at once. Like I'm putting in a lot of, um, consistent effort right now and like.

I think season two of Weaponized is gonna be a really awesome shift for me professionally. Um, and then, uh, when something kicks loose with, with Shelby, she'll be able to move here and, and we'll have a new apartment. Then there'll be a bunch of changes. I'll have to have a new, a different job at that point.

[00:07:12] Olivia: But that's now always like a weird period when you're like, you see what's right on the horizon and you're just kind of like waiting for it. Yeah. Just 

[00:07:21] Zach: grinding it out. Yeah. And you're like, you're so ready for a change. But then, cuz I, yeah. I've had this happen a number of times. There's just a desperate for that change.

And then like, once it happens, it happens so fast and you're like, oh shit, I thought I was ready. Yeah. Like when I moved to Seattle, I was working in a kitchen in Loveland, Colorado, like fresh off a breakup, living with my dad, and I was just like job hunting every day. And I, it was just looking hopeless, like I was gonna, uh, live in my dad's house forever, flipping burgers and then all of a sudden I got a job in like three days later I was driving across.

Wow. From Denver. From Denver to Seattle. It happened that fast. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. Our bosses wanted me up there like a sap and we both know how that turned out, but yeah. But it was an important, it was a huge step up from, from working in a kitchen and living with my parents. It's 

[00:08:11] Olivia: definitely like a resume stepping stone job.

Yeah. And it got my life going. But the aud going, audacity of them to be like, yes, you need to drive up here immediately for this. Yeah. Your big break. Those fucking assholes. That's, that's, 

[00:08:25] Zach: that's what I thought it would be. Yeah. 

[00:08:27] Victor: Um, that whole, that place is fueled by hubris. 

[00:08:31] Zach: Yeah. It really is like, powered by people who are in that kind of situation.

Like someone like, like us with a, a film degree or uh, some kind of like liberal arts degree that is like desperate for a chance to, to not work a menial job. And then it turns out to be like 20 times worse. Yeah. Um, but the, and because you're desperate, they, you know, they're gonna pay you a low wage as a contractor, so you don't get health insurance until you just quit and then they find a new one.

Yeah. That's a way around every, any ever giving anyone a raise. Creative 

[00:09:03] Victor: stuff, cool place to work. Creative jobs tend to, or often can be like predatory like that. Mm-hmm. Unfortunately. 

[00:09:11] Zach: Yeah, but it was still like kind of the, when it rains it pours kind of thing cuz like it would, you know, it got me on the road out to Seattle.

Um, it got my life moving forward. Yeah. Um, and you know, I think that this next set of like important life changes is gonna be way better cuz I've been more patient this time and, and uh, um, you know, I sort of jumped on that job. Our old job when it, when it cropped up, it was the first one to like the first cool job to interview me.

Um, and I've been a lot more thoughtful about the, the changes around the corner, but I still think when they, when they happen, it's gonna be like, um, fast. But hopefully I'll be more prepared this time. You kind 

[00:09:52] Victor: of feeling like you're in a holding pattern with pregnancy, all of you. Is it like you're just waiting for the thing to happen?

Yeah, actually kind of. Oh 

[00:09:59] Zach: yeah. That's kinda like what I'm 

[00:10:02] Olivia: describing. I kind of said that to someone the other day too, like, yeah, it kind of just feels like, all right, I see the, the main event and I'm just sitting here getting 

[00:10:15] Zach: bigger. Try not to bar, try 

[00:10:18] Olivia: not to bar. Feeling pretty constipated. Uh, yeah, it's super fun.

[00:10:24] Zach: Yeah. And then I've heard once, um, it actually like all goes down, your brain produces a chemical that makes you kind like, I don't know if it's like adrenaline adjacent, but it also causes you to kind of forget like how, um, traumatizing it is so that you're more likely to reproduce again. I have heard 

[00:10:41] Olivia: that.

I'm also trying to avoid birth trauma, uh, which is why we are having this baby at home. 

[00:10:49] Zach: You think that'll prevent birth trauma? Yeah, I do. I do. Like in term, in terms of like pain and stuff, I 

[00:10:54] Olivia: don't think the pain is what's traumatic. I think it's being in a setting where people are not listening to you and just 

 I'm sorry, I've been like down a rabbit hole with this, but like we have like fully. Medicalized this natural process to a point where it's like treated like a medical emergency and like, your life is on the line at every second and like the way it's handled in the medical model can be traumatic.

Yeah, I'm sure. So I've heard, 

[00:11:21] Victor: yeah, we were just learning about this thing called, um, is it like the birth, like ejection reflex or something? The fetal ejection reflex. Fetal ejection reflex. 

[00:11:31] Zach: I love that band. That's 

[00:11:34] Victor: super metal. But the idea is like you have a, you have a reflex that will kick in that is gonna expel the baby and that is like, there's no medical intervention or No, um, drugs.

That reflex happens and if there are drugs or if there is intervention, that will not happen. Right. And it's like that is kind of the way that you're built to like, give birth. Yeah. Is that you, you build up to the point where that reflex gets triggered. But um, a lot of the time people never experience that because there's already a bunch of intervention happening before you even get there.

Right. So it's like, well, and that's 

[00:12:12] Olivia: why people are like pushing, like, you literally don't actually need to push a baby out. It will come out. It's like pooping. Yeah. Yeah. I guess 

[00:12:21] Victor: you shouldn't strain or you're gonna 

[00:12:23] Olivia: hurt yourself. Yeah. At a certain point the poop is gonna come out.

Right. 

[00:12:27] Zach: So there are like medical emergencies where Oh, absolutely. Yeah. The hospital is necessary a hundred 

[00:12:32] Victor: percent definitely. 

[00:12:34] Zach: But most it's not going anywhere. You know, it'll be there if you, if that happens, but there's probably like a slim to none chance. Yeah. 

[00:12:41] Olivia: It's, it's not a high chance, but, um, but yeah, that's, are you gonna get a, and that's what hospitals are for?

[00:12:47] Zach: Are you gonna get like a 

[00:12:47] Olivia: doula? Yeah, yeah. We have a doula. We have a midwife, um, who is a trained medical professional doctor. It's a doctor. She is a doctor. Not all midwives are doctors, but this midwife is also a doctor. Um, 

[00:13:02] Zach: and yeah. Is this the one that predicted the baby? No, 

[00:13:06] Olivia: that's Victor's ex-girlfriend.

[00:13:07] Zach: Oh, right. 

[00:13:10] Victor: Yeah, but we got the doula, we got the midwife, we got the shaman, we got the cultus. No, no, 

[00:13:18] Olivia: no crystals. There's no, like, there's nothing woo about all of this. I feel like, home birth has this like, I don't know, like when you hear that, people think that you've got like a shaman there and you're like smudging the place and, and that it's like super dangerous, but it's actually like safer for babies and for mothers and, um, like statistically, yes, statistically it is safer.

Um, and yeah, I mean, and this is not to shame anybody. Like If you wanna go to the hospital and you feel comfortable there and you want an epidural and you want the meds, like more power to you. I support whatever people want to do, but for me, the idea of being at home is really appealing.

[00:14:00] Victor: Yeah. It's kind of like a, like a regional cultural practices kind of thing. Right. So like in the states, Everybody goes to the hospital and then like something like two thirds, uh, have like C-sections or whatever. Yeah. You know, it's just like super common to do. That's a, I think a third. Okay. Um, and then, but like there's other places where it hasn't done that way that think, what was it, Norway that has like a lot of home births or something.

[00:14:27] Olivia: think all of your, like all of Europe midwives are much more common and um, and yeah, in like Scandinavia, I think it was like a third of all people are having their babies at home. 

[00:14:40] Victor: Yeah. So just different approach. 

[00:14:42] Zach: They tend to do things smarter with some stuff, in my opinion. Yeah. The smart cold countries.

But you 

[00:14:49] Victor: can only get like two kinds of pop dart there. So like how 

[00:14:54] Olivia: do you know that

[00:14:57] Victor: There's always like, uh, people will post pictures of, like, in my country, this is what the American section in the grocery store looks like. And it's always like, uh, like a thing of pop darts, a thing of cereal. And then like a bunch of stuff that I've never seen before doesn't actually exist in 

[00:15:15] Zach: this country.

They just have two Pop-Tarts and it's Lincoln Berry and, uh, fish paste. 

[00:15:20] Olivia: They probably are different because I'm pretty sure Pop-Tarts are literally not legal. Um, in a lot of European countries, like they don't pass the food standards cuz they're fucking toxic. 

[00:15:31] Victor: Yeah. That's the other thing. A lot of our food isn't technic like, isn't legal to sell for human consumption in Europe.

Yeah. Like, uh, American 

[00:15:39] Olivia: Bread. 

[00:15:39] Zach: Nope. Yeah. Who's telling me, I might've said this already on the podcast, I think this already came up, but somebody's telling me that their sister and brother-in-law moved to Japan and they did not decrease the number of calories they ate in a day, but they both lost like 20 pounds.

[00:15:55] Victor: Okay, we're gonna like open up like another conspiracy, like here we go. Can we, we're gonna sound like so woo and crazy. Like, we're pr we're reasonable people. We are, we're good, rational, science minded, honest Americans. Um, you wanna go on a ramble Olivia 

[00:16:15] Olivia: lecture to people? No, this one's you. I already went on one.

[00:16:17] Victor: Okay. Um, so yeah, so like, I, I don't know for sure, but um, like there's, like, there's, there's all sorts of people. They'll be like, oh, I went to Europe and all I did was eat bread and uh, cake and uh, I lost two pounds, or whatever. Right. Um, and then you'll hear various like health things, like people that experience gluten intolerance here will go to Europe and be like, I was able to eat bread and I didn't have a problem.

And so there's something different going on with the bread possibly. Um, and one possible explanation for that is, um, Roundup is, uh, very widely used in the United States and is illegal in most other places. And the United States specifically, we use a shitload of Roundup on like meat products. They use it as 

[00:17:15] Olivia: a drying, drying agent to like, to, um, to harvest the wheat.

They'll, like, they'll use it as a drying agent. So it's all just like coated in Roundup. Right. 

[00:17:24] Victor: Um, and so, um, I don't know. That's like, that's kind of my, my guess of what's going on there. There's 

[00:17:31] Olivia: been studies about like the effects of. Glyphosate roundup on your gut microbiome and it just like fucking destroys it.

[00:17:40] Zach: Yeah. I was gonna ask how that correlates to weight gain. Cause I could see, uh, you know, a chemical being like cancer causing or something. 

[00:17:46] Olivia: Yeah, no, it, that's the thing is that it's approved because they're like, well, it's not really carcinogenic. So like the F D A is like, this is probably fine, but they don't test what it does to your gut.

And your gut is kind of like the center of everything. And, um, so yeah, the, the theory is that like we're eating a bunch of American gluten and, uh, it's not the gluten that people are intolerant to. It's, it's the, it's the roundup. 

[00:18:13] Victor: Yeah. But like, end of the day, like totally cut and dry. No interpretation there.

We have lower food safety standards here. There are people here that experience like health consequences for eating food that they don't experience with similar food in other places with better health safety standards. Yeah. So make of that what you will. We tested 

[00:18:33] Olivia: the gluten thing though. Like my, cuz my mom is the most gluten sensitive person I've ever met.

Like, if she has a little bit of it, she's like, ill, and so we celiac. No, she's not Celia. And that's the, that is the key difference. It is not, it has nothing to do with Celia Celiac is an actual, like, reaction to gluten. And, and this is, this is different. Um, but, so we ordered Italian flour from Italy and she ate it and had no problem.

[00:19:01] Zach: Yeah, I, I came up against this when I, back when I worked in gourmet cheese, um, my first cheese job was in a, like whole Foods esque, kind of like local foodie grocery store, like in, in Boulder, Colorado, like granola, hippie, dippy central. And uh, people would come in and like shop, be like looking at the, the cheese selection and they would pick something up and be, ask me if it was organic and I'd be like, well, no, because.

In Europe, they don't have the, you know, U S D A, so it's not U S D A certified organic, but trust me, it's better. It's, it's still what they're doing is better than, than what you have to like, than the hoops you have to jump through to get stamped with the organic label. Mm-hmm. Yeah. At least in cheese it's, you know.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that makes sense. Wheelhouse. 

[00:19:51] Olivia: It feels like it's inescapable, you know, we're just kind of surrounded with stuff that's really bad 

[00:19:58] Zach: yeah.

I'm probably like 1% plastic at this point. 

[00:20:00] Victor: Yeah. Oh yeah. I saw something the other day, like yesterday, I was seeing something about how like people are constantly inhaling microplastics, like it's just in the air. Um, like you're inhaling, uh, a significant amount of plastic. I can't remember what the comparison was.

I I know it was another thing where they were like, it's X amount of days. You end up inhaling a credit card worth of plastic or whatever. I can't, I can't remember. But, um, point being, it's enough to have health consequences. 

[00:20:31] Zach: Yeah. I mean, there'd definitely be health consequences to swallowing a credit card.

Mm mm-hmm. 

[00:20:37] Olivia: Let's move on.

I had, so I guess I was gonna do a different one that happened last week, but I had kind of a crazy one last night that's super fresh. Super fresh, soap, fresh. Um, I didn't write it down, but it was very vivid, so let me just remember. Okay, so I was walking in a forest at night. Um, on a path and in front of me, like directly in front of me is a centar that is also walking in the same direction as me, and it's carrying a child that is kind of screaming and upset.

Um, it wasn't a baby, it was like a younger kid though, like maybe a six or seven year old. And, um, and I'm just kind of following this centar with this kid. And then I look around me like, and there's other paths through the woods, and I see there's like tons of centar carrying children. Some of them are like asleep.

And then the other ones, the, the ones that are awake are very upset. And, and then I look behind me and there's a centar behind me carrying a child. And I like move to the side, like off of the path to let him pass. And as the centar is passing me, he looks at me and he says, Um, he said, don't worry, you're not one of them.

You should be proud. and then the path, suddenly, uh, it's like there's a magical kind of like, it was like you're walking in through the forest and then suddenly you're like through a veil, you're into a different setting.

And I'm in a library and it's still night. And um, there's a little kid and his dad in the library and I look behind me and I can see the veil back through, like, through the veil, back into the forest and this fucking terrifying. Like nine foot tall, slenderman ass looking clown comes like doing the scary, goofy, floppy walk through the veil into the library.

Jesus. It was horrifying. It has like a monster face. It looks like not, not a human. Like this thing is, is this thing is 

[00:23:07] Zach: picturing, picturing like 

[00:23:08] Olivia: terrify? Yeah, kind of like that, but like really, really skinny and really tall. Um. And he comes by me and kind of has like these tickly fingers. And, um, I can see him, he's going after the little kid and the kid doesn't see him.

And um, but he walks past the dad and the dad sees him and he comes up to the kid and scares the kid and starts like prodding at him and poking at him with his fingers. And the kid is screaming and I come up to the clown. The dad is like, kind of freaking out, but he doesn't do anything. He like, won't approach the clown.

And so I go up to the clown and I start like beating the shit out of this clown and like screaming at this clown to leave the kid alone. And he kind of like starts to prod me with his fingers. And then, um, I can't exactly remember how this happens, but something happens and it like makes this like surprised face and it like poofs.

And, and, and it disappears into thin air and all of its clothes just fall to the ground. Um, that was the end of the tree 

[00:24:21] Victor: last episode. Um, we, I was talking about how like, sometimes we're, we're laughing, but it's too quiet for the listeners to hear. The other thing is sometimes we're making like hair horrified, terrified faces, but it's silent.

Yeah. You, it doesn't convey. And, but we should do like video or something. 

[00:24:40] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. We should do that someday. 

[00:24:44] Olivia: I couldn't do the walk for you guys. Like the walk that it did when it came through with the veil was so scary. 

[00:24:50] Zach: You got me with the tickle fingers though. Yeah. I didn't like that. Tickly. The tickle man.

The tickle man. You just invented a new cryptic. It 

[00:24:59] Olivia: was like the tickle monster, but like tickle, which, Hmm. 

[00:25:05] Victor: So the clowns Uhhuh? Um, 

[00:25:07] Olivia: yep. Yes. Okay. I 

[00:25:10] Victor: said something earlier, but 

[00:25:12] Olivia: about what? Oh, uh, yeah, no, just like tickle monster. That reminds me of a thing that, that my dad used to do. Right. Which is just that, you know, tickle you not, and not stop, you know?

Right. And I found that like kind of utterly traumatizing as a kid. I don't know. So 

[00:25:37] Zach: the tickle monster's a pretty normal dad thing to deal. Yeah. It's just 

[00:25:40] Olivia: like he di like he didn't stop and you would be like crying. And he wouldn't stop. 

[00:25:49] Zach: Yeah. I definitely remember my, uh, probably my dad, one of my parents saying the phrase, tickle monster, but I don't, I don't remember them like, pushing it too far.

Yeah. Just like a little tickle. 

[00:25:59] Olivia: Um, yeah, 

[00:26:01] Zach: just a little try to make the baby laugh. 

[00:26:03] Olivia: Yeah. Vi Victor had mentioned like, this is probably about like that, but, but I actually think it's, I was 

[00:26:11] Zach: gonna say the clowns are hospitals and the centar is home birth. 

[00:26:18] Olivia: No, it's, I, I think I do know what this is about, but I haven't looked anything up yet or really done any digging into it.

So it's just kind of a feeling. And maybe we can see if Dream Bible confirms that or, 

[00:26:32] Victor: okay. But I want you to be the clown. 

[00:26:35] Zach: You're gestalt the clown. Oh, 

[00:26:37] Olivia: gestalt the clown. 

[00:26:38] Victor: Gestalt the clown. 

[00:26:42] Zach: Why do you tickle Olivia? 

[00:26:43] Olivia: Oh. That thing did have the most energy. Mm-hmm. I can gestalt the clown. Do you? Oh, do you really?

Should we do that or do you wanna, do you want to 

[00:26:53] Victor: hear symbols first? I feel like symbols first kinda makes sense. Yeah. I've only got a couple. We got centi children and clowns. Okay. Um, I guess you were in a forest. 

[00:27:02] Olivia: Yeah, the forest and a library. Oh, okay. 

[00:27:05] Victor: Forest and library. Is there a particular one you want me to hit first?

[00:27:09] Zach: By the way, there's something particularly upsetting about the clown in that, in that setting with those other, with another mythical creature. Like, because you have, like, if you take the clown out, it's otherwise like a kind of middle earthy or Harry Potter esque kind of dream with the library and the forest and the centar.

Yeah. Like those images all go together, then you just shove a clown in it. Yeah. That's, that's somehow weirder than like the clown in downtown Seattle or whatever. 

[00:27:36] Olivia: Yeah, no, it's true. I also, uh, some added details that are coming to me now, like in the forest, um, like I remember being like, oh my God, there's centar, like there's centar everywhere.

But they didn't feel evil. They didn't feel like bad, but they were. Definitely transporting all of these children against their will to a bad place. I remember feeling like all of those kids were being taken somewhere for being bad. 

[00:28:09] Zach: They weren't bad, but they were kidnappers, 

[00:28:12] Olivia: but it was like they just like had to do it.

Like they didn't have a choice. It was like they were like, Krampus. Is that what Krampus does? 

[00:28:20] Victor: Does he have to do what he does? I don't know what he does. I guess I 

[00:28:24] Zach: don't know enough about Krampus, the Centar or San or Krampus. 

[00:28:26] Victor: Krampus. I guess I don't know enough about Krampus to know the connection you're 

[00:28:30] Zach: drawing.

Well, I think he eats the naughty children, right? Like he's a, 

[00:28:33] Olivia: I think he likes it though. The Centar were just like, it was like they, they were just a means of transportation. They were like a means of safely transporting these children to a place where they had to go because they were 

[00:28:48] Victor: bad. They were like flying monkeys, like kidnapping children to bring them to the, the Wicked Witch or 

[00:28:55] Olivia: whatever.

Like, I think I even remember one like, like there was one kid that was like, So all of the kids were either like asleep or like kicking and screaming. And like I got the sense that the ones that were asleep had just like given up kicking and screaming and the one, and I remember seeing one like holding this kicking and screaming kid, and like he was being gentle about it.

And he was like, he had like the vibe of like, I know, like I know it sucks. Like just chill out. The centar did. Yeah. Like they were, it was more 

[00:29:29] Zach: like, like a, they were being kind more like a grim reaper kinda vibe. Like morally neutral, just uh, yeah, just 

[00:29:36] Olivia: ushering you. Yes. Yes. And then the one said to me, uh, don't worry, you're not one of them.

You should be proud. That's like a direct quote, meaning, 

[00:29:48] Zach: I don't know. Um, well, no, I was 

[00:29:49] Olivia: gonna guess. Oh, 

[00:29:52] Zach: what does that mean, Olivia tell us. Uh, It sounds like if these kids were being transported to a bad place, it had something to do with like their behavior there. Yeah, but 

[00:30:03] Olivia: I also, I feel like when he said that, I got the sense that he wasn't talking.

I can't remember for sure, but I'm not sure that he was talking about the kids when he said You're not one of them. Oh, that doesn't quite, I'm not sure. It'll probably make more sense eventually. You felt 

[00:30:20] Victor: like he wasn't talking about the kids when he said that? Yeah. 

[00:30:23] Olivia: Yeah. Maybe. I can't remember. 

[00:30:26] Victor: I mean, I believe you.

That's just interesting. I wonder, that makes me very curious what that does mean. 

[00:30:33] Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. I didn't feel like a kid, I didn't, I didn't feel like I was. 

[00:30:38] Zach: Right. That's why you're not like them. Yeah. You should be proud not being a whiny little kid. Yeah. 

[00:30:44] Victor: Yeah. All right, I'm gonna start reading entries. Uh, so the forest to dream of a forest represents an issue that leaves you feeling confused, uncertain, lost, or ejected from arrangements that give you a sense of security.

A problem has left you feeling unsatisfied, insecure, or unsettled. A loss of confidence or control. Yeah. 

[00:31:09] Olivia: Uh, the part that resonates is, Uh, all of it. No. Uh, the part that's, I don't, it's, I don't think the lost and confused stuff, but like, um, what does it say? Ejected from arrangements that give you a sense of security?

Um, yeah. I don't know. I'm just gonna relate everything to like pregnancy and parenthood cause mm-hmm. Fucking, that is all, all that is going on in 

[00:31:35] Victor: my brain. I mean, it seems like that's what the dream is, right? Because you've got these kids being taken away and then you've got like the kid being tickle monster.

Um, yeah. A kid, kid. 

[00:31:46] Olivia: Stress dream. I mean, um, we're embarking on a huge new journey that is very uncertain. Yeah. And, um, and 

[00:31:57] Zach: it's nothing like anything you've ever done. Mm-hmm. And nothing, and there's nothing else comparable to it. So, yeah. It, it stands to reason it would, um, consume all of your 

 dreams. 

[00:32:07] Victor: And then centar, uh, represent feelings about something being wrong with getting ahead or using quicker advantages. The possibility or suspicion that using an advantage to get ahead is wrong.

The combined characteristics of someone who is stubborn, aggressive, and intelligent about how to get ahead people in your life that you feel don't care about anything except themselves in order to get ahead negatively, a centar may reflect behavior that is self selfish, driven to always want more for itself.

A person that scares you that they never conform at all while trying to get ahead feeling that someone scares you, that they would always prioritize winning before honesty, feeling stuck in a relationship with someone that never wants to settle down. Money always coming before family because you or someone else's, too busy enjoying success, feeling about advantages or opportunities being immoral.

Okay. Yeah. 

[00:33:05] Zach: So overwhelmingly negative. Yeah. 

[00:33:07] Victor: Yeah. But if you don't like that, I also brought up the TV tropes entry. Some of that 

[00:33:12] Olivia: actually really does resonate, but TV tropes, okay. 

[00:33:16] Victor: No, no, no. Let's hear what 

[00:33:18] Olivia: resonates. Uh, I'm just, okay, so I'm pretty sure this dream is about what I think it's about. So maybe I should tell you guys what I think it's about and then we can work backwards.

Um, so something that has been really present on. My mind, um, is that I have really strong and kind of ragey feelings about people trying to come over and touch our baby 

[00:33:49] Zach: in the future or while it's inside you, uh, 

[00:33:51] Olivia: in when it's out once it's out of me. But that's the thing is like that was inside of me. It kind of feels like that's fucking mine.

[00:34:01] Zach: Kinda is. That is a weird cultural norm. I 

don't 

[00:34:05] Olivia: think that it's okay. I don't think there should be any pressure on me to let people touch my baby. 

[00:34:11] Zach: But I've always thought that that was weird that because I've never met somebody who was so outwardly, uh, was against it. Um, because people have always seemed like, at least in my life, like it was just like the way things go.

Like, you gotta come over and hold the baby. Everyone's gotta hold the baby. Yeah. And I don't like it. And I've, uh, never had a baby, but I've been pressured to hold a baby. And I, and I thought that that was weird cuz it's like, this is the most precious thing in your life and it's also the most fragile.

And I dropped three things on my way in here. 

[00:34:49] Olivia: Yeah. I like, it's not, it's a little less like, logical than that for me. Like, it doesn't, I'm not really worried anyone's gonna drop the baby or anything. It just feels like, but the pressure's weird. The pressure is weird. Here's the thing. I, there's gonna be a point in time where I have no problem with people holding our baby.

Um, but it feels really weird to me for people to like, expect to like, get their hands on our newborn baby. Um, and like, I just like, yeah. It like makes me really upset and I don't like that there's like pressure to do that and that I'm a bad guy for not wanting people to do that. And um, and it also feels like a little dehumanizing to like pass a person around, right?

Like it's a doll. Like all that baby only cares about like being Yeah. Or, or a puppy being glued to me. Right? 

[00:35:45] Zach: Yeah. It's like, let, let me spend some time getting comfortable with me supporting the weight of its head. It's 

[00:35:51] Olivia: like weird with a puppy. Like I can't imagine like just passing our dog around. Like she would hate that.

They would both hate 

[00:35:58] Zach: that for sure. Dogs can fight back then they can nip at you, right? 

[00:36:03] Olivia: Right. Yeah. But anyway, um, so like that's a strong feeling that I have. Um, and I've been like wrestling with the idea of. Like, I am going to set that boundary because it's like, it's like a mental health thing for me.

Like that's gonna drive me crazy if I feel like I have to let people come in and do that. And, and I, 

[00:36:27] Zach: yeah, and they'll get over it. They'll forget about it. But if, but if you don't set that boundary that you won't forget about Yeah. 

[00:36:35] Olivia: And the feeling, yeah, it's just gonna be like such a crazy, vulnerable time, like healing and like trying to figure out how to take care of an infant and like, I am a private person.

We are like, well, I'll tell it, I'll tell you guys anything on the podcast, but like, I don't, I don't like 

[00:36:54] Zach: people, we're private people. She says on a podcast, 

[00:36:57] Olivia: I don't really like people, like in our space for prolonged periods of time. Like I'm very like introverted and like I have people that I like to spend time with.

Um, in certain contexts on my own time, you know, and like, but like our, we don't have people over all the time. We're not like hanging out with people all the time. We don't spend, like, I'm not close with my family like that, like where I would want them, like in my space in such a vulnerable time. And it just feels like everybody's waiting for me to shove this baby out so they can have their time with my baby.

And that feels wrong cuz it's fucking mine. Sorry, I don't mean to be insensitive. It just like, it like actually makes me upset, like so upset, thinking about it. And it's been like really present on my mind. And like the thing that is like fucking with me is feeling like I'm gonna have to keep redrawing that boundary or that it's like, are people not be 

[00:38:06] Zach: respected?

You know? Are people already bringing it up? Like I can't wait to hold that baby or whatever. I'm sure they can't. 

[00:38:12] Olivia: But it was like my, like my mom was like, who's invited to the birth? And I was like, no one. And she's like, okay, but you'll have us all over immediately after, right? And I was like, no, no, I won't.

I don't want that. And like, I could tell she was disappointed and like, I don't want to make people upset and like I immediate, I felt myself like kind of backtracking and being like, oh, but maybe you can hold the baby, but I don't really want that. But like, maybe you can. But like, what I've been feeling is no, I don't want people to hold the baby.

I shouldn't be promising them that. Maybe they can, you know? All right. This is like the most worked up I've ever gotten on the podcast. 

[00:38:54] Zach: No, it's good. 

[00:38:57] Olivia: I have insane hormones in my body right now. Yeah. 

[00:39:02] Victor: Uh, yeah. And you're feeling really strongly that you want a good long period of time where it's just like our little family Yeah.

Before we bring other people into it. I, 

[00:39:16] Zach: I, that makes sense with like how, what? The limited amount that I know about like infant psychology. I feel like there, there is like a bonding. Um, period. It's important, like before they see a mirror for the first time and start to develop the idea of the individual, 

[00:39:31] Olivia: they, they literally don't know that.

I don't, I don't know how true this is, but I keep hearing this, that like around six months of age is when an infant get gains. The ability to understand that they are a separate individual from their mother because they've literally had their entire consciousness has been inside and then like glued to this one person.

And, and I heard someone say like, that's why like the most common first word for babies is like dada is because that's like the first outside person that they recognize, um, because they think they're part of their mom. 

[00:40:13] Zach: Yeah, I think that was my first worry. 

[00:40:15] Olivia: Mine too was Dada mama dog for me. Mine was and then it was, fuck, check 

[00:40:21] Victor: please.

[00:40:27] Zach: Mine was Jesus Louise.

My first word was, uh, quoting the comic strip Kathy.

[00:40:43] Olivia: Um, okay. So 

[00:40:46] Zach: I just, yeah. How do you tie 

[00:40:46] Victor: that in? 

[00:40:48] Olivia: Uh, the reason why I strongly feel that this dream has to be about that is because I like cried about it yesterday, and then I cried about it again yesterday, and then I like talk Victor's ear off about it last night. Um, and I just, uh, the clown.

Coming in and like going after this kid, and I'm the one who has to like fucking beat this clown up. Um, it feels like it has to do with like a boundaries thing or like, um, yeah, and then also there were these centar literally holding children. All of them were holding children. So like, it just kind of feels like it's probably about that, but I haven't like, you know, fully dissected it yet.

[00:41:35] Zach: So yeah, it makes intuitive sense. Those tickle fingers are very like, yeah, when you hold that baby. 

[00:41:41] Olivia: I said something to, to my mom when she was asking about, like, she was like, why don't you want people to hold the baby? I said something about like, I don't want everyone's grubby, grabby hands all over my baby grubby, grabby.

And, uh, and yeah. Did grubby 

[00:41:59] Zach: grabby tickle fingers off my baby? It did 

[00:42:01] Olivia: feel like, yeah, it just felt like he was coming. With these like long grabby fingers. Yeah. It just felt like, yeah, yeah, 

[00:42:11] Zach: yeah. It's interesting cuz when you're describing the, the clown and the tickle fingers, I, I was, I remember thinking that like, it's upsetting but it's not overly like, um, it's not violent or 

[00:42:22] Olivia: anything.

It wasn't really tickling though. It was like he was like prodding and poking. He just had these long fingers. And then he was coming at the kid like he was gonna like just poke at him, 

[00:42:34] Zach: which is still like more like personal space in Vadi than it is like Yeah, that's true. 

[00:42:41] Olivia: Murdery. That's true. Yeah. It, yeah, it felt like, yeah, it did feel the clown's main intention was to scare the kid though.

Um, like he snuck up on the kid and then like came after him. Um, yeah. 

[00:42:57] Victor: So I feel like the forest kind of. Paints the picture of maybe how you've been feeling of like some of the stress you've been having about the scenario and then the centar is being, uh, like there's stuff in here about like kind of using like an unfair advantage or whatever.

I think, yeah. It feels like to, to me, like where my mind goes based on, like, that we've been talking about, um, you being stressed out about this, um, recently is like you feel a certain obligation to your parents. They're your parents, you love them, they're family. We're close to them. And so I think it's hard for you to have that boundary.

And so this feels like that closeness of the relationship is almost like something they have on you. You know, it's like, it makes it harder for you to just say like, I would prefer to not do this. You know it. 

[00:43:51] Olivia: Yes. And it feels like I'm gonna be guilt tripped. Um, and the first sentence of the negatively is actually what resonates, like from forest, uh, centar 

[00:44:04] Victor: centar, uh, a centar may reflect behavior that is selfish driven to always want more for itself.

[00:44:11] Olivia: Yeah. Um, I don't mean to be like disparaging or it's just that like, I understand why everybody's excited that we're having a baby.

They totally should be. Obviously they're excited. Um, uh, and I'm glad that they're excited and happy and everyone's, that's all very natural. It just feels like I just have this like concern that it's gonna be made to be about them when like, I'm going through like the biggest change and like difficult, most difficult time in my life probably.

Um, and like I feel strongly that what I'm gonna need. After having given birth is to not have people trying to visit and hang out and hold the baby. Um, and so like to me it feels like, like I get that it's not like, oh, they're so selfish for wanting to see the baby. It's just like, ultimately it isn't really about anybody, but um, me and that baby.

Right. Or 

[00:45:17] Zach: it shouldn't be, yeah. Yeah. So I feel like people look at it like, um, like an extension of marriage. Like it, you know, historically, or traditionally is like, it goes in that order, order, you know, in terms of like major life events. And your wedding is something that you kind of, like, you do it for you, like you have the wedding that you want, but you're also thinking of your guests, you know?

Yeah. Like who are we gonna seat by? Who and what do we feed 'em? Like you're, it's a party. You plan in large part for everyone who's there. Yeah. Um, but this is not, you can't, you plan pregnancy to an extent, but after that, after the conception, it's like a biological function that comes with like, yeah.

It's, it's not, it's not a party that you're planning in nine months. No. Yeah. And it really, it really has nothing to do with anybody but you two. 

[00:46:05] Olivia: Yeah. And, um, yeah, that's true. And I think I just like, I f it's not even that I feel uncomfortable setting that boundary. It's that I am like triggered at the idea of that boundary not being respected.

Um, or like, ha like it, it having to even be a thought in my head that like, other people are like not happy with that choice. Like that's something I need to work on cuz it, it isn't about them. And like, I can put that boundary up and like, if they wanna be upset, like it is not my responsibility to like bear the burden of their feelings.

Um, and I shouldn't, I have other things to deal with. So, 

[00:46:51] Victor: so, uh, children, uh, Uh, it's prob those are probably metaphorical in this, right? This isn't just clearly a dream about the baby that you're pregnant with. Nevermind, uh, we can move on from children, right? We probably don't need to read this entry. You think the 

[00:47:06] Zach: children are just children.

[00:47:08] Victor: We can read it. It just feels like it's, uh, I mean, I don't know. I just already feel like I know what this dream's about. To see your real life children. That's not happening. If you have more than one child in real life, that's not what's up. Dream of children that aren't your children. And waking life may reflect developing aspects of your life, situations in life that are brand new or that you have renewed enthusiasm for creativity or young-minded ideas.

[00:47:35] Olivia: The developing situation is a literal child. 

[00:47:38] Victor: Negatively dreaming of children may reflect feelings about yourself or others Being helpless, powerlessness to overcome big challenges and experience that prevents you from facing difficulties because problems are too big. Yeah, 

[00:47:50] Olivia: I do feel like. The feeling is a little bit of helplessness and that, and that's why I get like, so agitated, like thinking about this is like the idea that I'm gonna be in like a really vulnerable position.

Like I, it, I don't know what it's gonna be like, but I imagine that like, that immediate postpartum is like intense and, uh, you know, I'm in like a compromised position. Um, and I, 

[00:48:18] Zach: you don't have to worry about other people's feelings. 

[00:48:20] Olivia: Yeah. Like, and the, the feeling of like being in that spot and then having this other bullshit that I'm like having to think about, like, stresses me out so much.

so that, yeah, that resonates. 

[00:48:35] Victor: Um, and then a library, uh, represents a search for answers, knowledge, or ideas. You may be questioning some area of your life. Curious about something, looking for new ideas. Um, was it a negative library? 

[00:48:50] Olivia: The library felt neutral. The library and the forest both actually felt like kind of 

[00:48:56] Victor: dreaming of libraries are common to people trying to learn a lot about parenting.

Oh 

[00:49:01] Olivia: yeah. That's what that is. 

[00:49:04] Victor: So 

[00:49:05] Zach: this is one of those dreams where you came in with like really strong intuition on what it was about. And uh, I feel like the stronger that feeling is, like the, the more likely it is that you're right. 

[00:49:15] Victor: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that's true. 

[00:49:17] Zach: Um, and so it's one of those episodes where we're just going through the symbols and, and basically confirming your theory.

[00:49:23] Olivia: Yeah, 

[00:49:24] Victor: I guess so it says to dream of an evil clown represents a fear of embarrassment or that people will laugh at you. Um, I don't think that's 

[00:49:33] Olivia: right. Well, but I can kind of connect that like. I, I feel like, um, what that brings up for me is like not being taken seriously when I'm saying like, please don't come over for right weeks.

I am not letting people hold our newborn baby for a while. And having people like, like, you know, think that that's silly or, stupid or that I am being irrational or whatever, you know? Um, like I get that that impulse in me is coming from like, some stuff with me, but it just kind of doesn't matter. Like, it's not, that is not a good enough reason for me to like, be like, well, I guess I should just let people hold the baby.

Then. Like, if it is gonna fuck with me, I'm just not gonna do it. Um, I don't, sorry, I don't need to keep justifying it to you guys. Just I, but I think that. That part about the evil clown, like it's not embarrassment or that they'll laugh at me, but it's like that they won't take me seriously. 

[00:50:39] Victor: And then, um, to dream of being tickled represents an aspect of yourself that is encouraging you to stop caring.

Um, mm. Tickling may also reflect a person or situation that is trying to cheer you up to dream that you're tickling someone else represents your attempt to make someone else lighten up or be more confident. Yeah. So 

[00:50:56] Olivia: no, that's the, the clown, the evil clown who represents people who are not taking me seriously.

 Is tick, doing the tickling, which is like encouraging to stop you, to stop carrying or being serious, being persuaded that an issue isn't a big deal or to lighten up. That makes perfect sense. 

[00:51:19] Victor: Yeah. To me, it just feels like this is, uh, like a heightened version of your recurring like dog dream, right?

Yeah. Like for a long time, Olivia's dreams have been, uh, needing to protect the dogs and everyone else is being incompetent, and she's the one that's responsible for making sure that no one innocent is harmed. 

[00:51:44] Zach: Yeah, I think I called that. I mean, it's an obvious call, but like, like bunch episodes ago I said that, uh, when you guys have kids, you're all your dog dreams Olivia are gonna turn into Yeah, like the same dream.

But with kids, 

[00:51:58] Olivia: something you said, like, I do feel like there's something deeper here for us to get in, try and figure out and it's like, there's something about the centar carrying these children that I don't understand, I don't understand. And the thing 

[00:52:11] Zach: and the thing that they said to you, 

[00:52:13] Olivia: yeah, I don't understand what that's all about.

And then the transition between, they were taking these kids like somewhere and it was like I just walked through a, like a portal into a library. Um, 

[00:52:26] Victor: yeah. Yeah. So, um, do you wanna like maybe search your. Feelings for a minute and see if you can maybe connect to where you feel like they were being taken or like what?

Like can you try and pull any more insights up? Yeah, yeah. Gimme a sec. 

[00:52:44] Zach: Do you think you could just solve the centar. Because it is interesting when you have a, a direct quote said to you in a dream, cause that's you talking to you. That's true. Yeah. 

[00:52:53] Olivia: I have a feeling that the centar have to do with like parents and that there may be like a stand-in for the, the responsible parent and like the opposite of the like, of the dad in the library who like didn't know what to do and I had to jump in into action like these, the Centar had it handled and I was just kind of like in the, like I was walking with them, but they were handling a situation.

I do feel like the kids were going somewhere. It's bad though. I don't know. Or against their will. I don't, I don't necessarily know that they were going somewhere, but I, it didn't feel like they were going like 

[00:53:32] Zach: to kids go everywhere 

[00:53:33] Olivia: against their will. Yeah. Like, I don't know. It, it's hard to, it's hard to say, but, so then the Centar telling me that I'm not like them, um, is more, maybe more like that.

I'm not like the incompetent dad in the library. Mm-hmm. That's just a 

[00:53:51] Zach: feeling I have. If the tickle monster is like social pressure to, to lighten up and the dad is caving into that and he's like, oh, all right. You can tickle my kid. Um, 

[00:54:02] Victor: I don't think the tickle monster is, um, like that social pressure though.

Like I kind of think the tickle monster is. Like the embodiment of this like thing with you that like didn't like the fairly odd parents because of the incompetent parents in it or whatever. And like in your dreams, it's always that everyone else is being an idiot. And so you have to stand out, like kind of the villain of your, of those dreams is the incompetence of others.

Yeah. And you have this like, like cartoonish, like, like clown villain where it's like they're doing a jokey thing and they're like, and it is causing harm. Right. And you have to like, it feels like, it's like the embodiment of that. Like harmful incompetence. Yeah. That plagues 

[00:54:47] Olivia: you. It's like heightened more than I've ever seen it.

Yeah. In a dream. It's usually just like people not paying attention or like, making dumb spur of the moment decisions when it matters, you know? But this was like evil. 

[00:55:04] Victor: This is like, um, like cuz, cuz that that thing in you comes from some kind of kinda wound, right? Um, some can, like you developed some kind of anxiety along the way of like feeling responsible, uh, or like you had to be responsible for others or whatever.

And this is maybe like how you received that, right? Like the things that made you feel, uh, the place where that, uh, that comes from. Was that initial trauma that you experienced that, that feeling of, uh, this is evil, this is scary, this is harmful to me, um, that you initially experienced. Am I making sense?

I feel like I'm rambling. Do you know what I'm saying? 

[00:55:47] Olivia: Yeah, yeah. Like, this is a thing that haunts me to this day. I like, I'm really put off by like film and TV that has these characters that are unrealistically, like Bish, the foolish ishish. Yeah. It's the same, same word. Um, but yeah, that is it. It is like when they're like, yeah, they're just like making a fool out of themselves and like, and, and especially when they're in like an authority position and there's, there's this, there's this dynamic that is, that you see all the time in movies and TV where there's like a kid that like has these parents that are cartoonishly stupid and the kid is like the character that's most relatable and grounded.

Mm-hmm. And, and 

[00:56:35] Zach: those shows are usually made for kids, correct? They are. And I think they want you to relate to the, they want the main character, the one that you relate to, to be your age. Mm-hmm. Right. 

[00:56:45] Olivia: And I think that it's like for a kid that, that has like a really secure attachment with their parents and like, feels safe and secure with their parents.

It's probably funny to see silly, goofy parents, but for me it's distressing. And it was when I was a kid and it is now to a lesser extent. Like I can handle it now, but it just like, kind of turns me off. Like I don't really like that trope. Um, 

[00:57:17] Zach: so do you think you were onto something when you said that the, maybe, maybe what the Centara was saying? You know, you talking to yourself is that, don't worry about hurting other people's feelings when you draw this boundary, cuz you're, you're, you're not that fairly odd parents' parent. Mm-hmm. You like, you, like you've, you've done research and you've thought about this and, and you've, you've made your, your decision.

So that could 

[00:57:42] Olivia: be that it, it also could be like a loser. Thing where it's just like, cuz there's like a part of me that's like, am I gonna fuck up this parenting thing? Like, that's obviously a concern. If you're not worried about fucking it up, you probably should be. Um, but also like, you know, everyone's gonna fuck it up a little bit, so it's fine.

But like, I don't know, maybe it was like confirmation that I'm not going to cause that same kind of issue for my kid. Um, 

[00:58:16] Victor: where do you think the parents of the kids getting carried off by Centres 

[00:58:21] Olivia: were? That's a great question. I think that they were, uh, like I remember having a feeling about that in the dream.

I'm trying to remember what it was. Yeah, it just felt like they were like not there. 

[00:58:37] Victor: Um, okay. So were the centar, maybe the consequence of like the inattention of their parents. That's interesting. 

[00:58:47] Zach: And that's why they're like, don't worry, you're not like them. You should be fine. 

[00:58:50] Victor: Right. So it's like these kids are here at, their parents are who knows where.

And so these centres are taking them to a bad place. Don't worry, you're not like the parents whose kids get carried off by cent.

[00:59:10] Zach: Um, I feel like that fit with the Yeah, the, with the centar entry. Mm. It was a bunch of negative stuff. I mean, like being emblematic of, uh, consequences of, uh, neglect. It, it kind of tracks from my memory. No, I 

[00:59:27] Olivia: feel like it was, the sentar entry was about like, like trying to take advantage and like, Um, get ahead.

Yeah. Yeah. But the part of the, of the centar entry that, that's why I'm having a hard time connecting it. Like the parts of the centar entry like resonate, but don't feel like connected to how I saw the centar in the dream, I guess, 

[00:59:51] Zach: just be clear, you're talking half man, half horses, right?

Yeah. 

[00:59:55] Olivia: Mm-hmm. Okay. That's correct. 

[00:59:56] Zach: It would be funny if you were using the wrong mythological term and then, and then it turns out the right one was exactly the missing piece. Oh, 

[01:00:04] Olivia: yeah. No, 

[01:00:06] Zach: they were, if you were like, oh shit, I meant Griffin's. 

[01:00:08] Olivia: Oh yeah. They were, they were horse dudes. Um, Yeah, I don't know. 

[01:00:13] Zach: It would be a bummer to be a centar but still have like a, a average human-sized penis.

[01:00:19] Olivia: It would be a bummer to be a centar, but like the other way around where you're just like a man body with a horse head, horse from the chest up. Be so fucking heavy 

[01:00:30] Zach: A horse, so is what that's called. 

[01:00:33] Victor: You'd have to be like balanced on your front two hooves and then your, your legs would just be like dangling up in the air.

Right. Just be like kind of keeping em up and trying to keep em balanced. 

[01:00:44] Zach: That's picturing f human feet planted on the ground and then horse. Yeah, me 

[01:00:47] Olivia: too. But you're right, that would be too top heavy. 

[01:00:50] Victor: Yeah. If you think of the weights, 

[01:00:53] Zach: the center of gravity. 

[01:00:54] Victor: Right. 

[01:00:57] Olivia: I forgot about the hooves part. Like I was thinking of like human arms, but no, like, there would be, 

[01:01:03] Zach: you have to hang all your pants, you have to hang all your pants in the closet and then back into 'em.

[01:01:09] Olivia: How do you hang them with hooves 

[01:01:12] Victor: toe? You have, you need help 

[01:01:14] Olivia: you, you need help. You need a, you need the other half. You need like an act, a regular centar to do, do your hand work for you, and then you're just useless. You're a useless reverse centar. Okay. Well,

[01:01:36] Zach: I was trying to think, do I, do I try to add to the interpretation or do I keep going down this road of centar variations? I mean, how, how are you feeling? 

[01:01:47] Olivia: I feel like there's more here that I don't fully understand yet. Um, like again, I feel like the centar, they felt like they didn't feel negative to me.

And like, I guess the natural conclusion on its face, it sounds like, okay, the, these centar these pushy people are taking the children away to a bad place. Like that feels like it echoes my fear, but it, but it doesn't quite feel right. And it feels, it felt like the centar were very like, calm and like neutral and like they had it under control.

 And I almost like feel, wonder if I am mistaken about the kids going to a bad place if that's like, maybe I. A misinterpretation of my, on my part, like that maybe it felt like that because some of them were kicking and screaming, but like, maybe they, I don't know. It, it, like, I just, I don't feel strongly about them being taken to a bad place.

I guess it just like, 

[01:02:52] Zach: yeah, I mean a lot. A lot of things that are good for us, we go kicking and screaming into in, in early development. 

[01:03:00] Olivia: It felt like it was a consequence, but I don't know that that necessarily means that the kids were going to suffer like it felt like they, this was happening.

Because of something else. 

[01:03:12] Victor: Was there any connection between the kid in the library and the kids being carried away? 

[01:03:17] Zach: No. Like were they being carried to the library? Is that what you 

[01:03:19] Olivia: mean? No, what was interesting was like I was on the path and then like I was in the library and I looked back and I could see the veil back into the forest, which is where the clown came from.

And the centar were still walking down that path, but they were not coming into the library, so they were going somewhere else. 

[01:03:37] Victor: So they were passing by the library. 

[01:03:40] Olivia: It was like I went through a veil that nobody else went through. Hmm. The portal was only open for me and the clown.

[01:03:48] Victor: So I mean, it kind of feels like, um, like what did, did the library look like? Was it foresty at all? 

[01:03:56] Olivia: No, it was just a folio library. Yeah, it was a big 

[01:03:59] Zach: Like a baroque kind of like aesthetic library or? Um, 

[01:04:04] Olivia: yeah, a little bit. But there was a kid section, 

[01:04:07] Zach: not like the public library.

No. It was a pretty fluorescent lights and 

[01:04:11] Olivia: it was a pretty like, yeah, kind of an old looking building. It was dark, it was like nighttime and then there was like one light on in the kid's section and the kid was over 

[01:04:22] Zach: there. Does seem significant that only you and the clown could cross the 

[01:04:26] Olivia: veil.

Yeah. Yeah. It felt like I was just like, kind of floating along this path. I don't know where I was going. I, I was just kind of in this stream of centar that were going somewhere else and I ended up somewhere different. Um, 

[01:04:43] Victor: cause my, my first instinct, because they're just so different, is like, is this another example of.

Um, your dream trying to send you the same message two different ways. Mm-hmm. Like, is what's happening in the first half of the dream and what's happening in the clown half of the dream? Like just different mm-hmm. Different ways to get to the same 

[01:05:02] Olivia: thing. My gut says no. Okay. But the, they're like, it's, I think they're connected, but it's, it's not exactly the same.

I don't know. I could be wrong. 

[01:05:13] Victor: No, no, no. I think if your gut says no, then that's the answer. Um, I 

[01:05:16] Olivia: think they're two different parts of this, of, of a big picture. Gotcha. Hmm. I, I actually kind of feel like the centar were the, my gut says the centres are the opposite of the incompetent 

[01:05:31] Victor: parent. The centres are the opposite of the, uh, like would you say the clown is representing the incompetent parent?

Mm-hmm. Or 

[01:05:40] Olivia: no, there was a literal incompetent parent there. Yeah. The dad. Yeah. Okay. I would say they're the opposite of that. And the clown is, 

[01:05:48] Zach: You said the clown was like, people not taking you seriously when you draw this boundary like that. I think that that's why I compared the clowns. Like the, the social pressure of Yeah.

I think in, of passing your baby 

[01:06:00] Olivia: around. I think in, in this, in the context of my, my, like, my fear about that situation. Yeah. But I think that the clown maybe is representative of just like harm being caused. And, um, in the library, this clown came in and basically went right past the dad and is going after this kid who's not my kid.

I didn't know who he was, but I had to step in because I'm a fucking centar. 

[01:06:33] Zach: So it could be like the, the harm caused by people like invading your personal space in these immediate months. But it could also just be harm at large caused by general incompetence. It could be 

[01:06:44] Olivia: like, yeah, that could be my fear of harm, of like the harm that could be caused.

If 

[01:06:53] Zach: you're not diligent. Yes. Like this dad wasn't. Yeah. That feels 

[01:06:58] Victor: closer. So if the centar are the opposite of the incompetent parents, but they're still taking the kids to a negative place, then is that maybe representative of like an overcorrection, like, um, like being too, like a, like a helicopter parent or something?

The centar, yeah. Because if they are the opposite of incompetent, but still the end result is negative, it feels like maybe it's like, you know, going too far in the other direction. 

[01:07:27] Olivia: I don't think so. I don't know. It, it just felt like, 

[01:07:31] Zach: It. Some of the, some of the kids were kicking and screaming, but some were asleep.

[01:07:35] Olivia: It kind of felt like, I don't know. I'm kind of back, I'm going back on my statement that the kids were being taken to a bad place. Like I don't know that. Why are you going back 

[01:07:46] Victor: on that though? 

[01:07:46] Olivia: Because it doesn't quite feel right. It doesn't quite feel accurate. Like it, it sort of, I think what feels more accurate is that.

The centar carrying the children were, it, were the results of a bad thing happening that they wouldn't have to do that if not for this other thing that happened. It, it isn't necessarily that they're, that the consequences that the kids are being taken to a bad place. It is just that like they had to step in to do this because of something 

[01:08:21] Zach: bad.

If, if they're the opposite of an incompetent parent, then maybe that's emblematic of like, uh, a, a fear of what it's gonna look like to, to like stand in your truth as and, and, and, and be that type of parent. You know what I mean? Cuz it's not always gonna be easy. Like sometimes the kid will be going along with it, but sometimes they'll be kicking and screaming and you're gonna have forge ahead.

Yeah. Um, and it might even feel like a bad place, or you, maybe that's where the misinterpretation or the second guessing comes from. Um, I mean, socially, it, it might be made to feel like a bad place. You're, you're, um, boundaries. 

[01:08:58] Olivia: Yeah. So, um, yeah, that resonates like, like I think, I think, um, parenting is going to be very, very difficult in ways that I can't even begin to imagine.

Um, and. Yeah, I think that, I guess I have like a concern that like our choices as parents might be like questioned by the people around us or by like, by family members who, like, you know, back in my day, you just, um, put a little whiskey in their bottle and they go right to 

[01:09:36] Zach: sleep.

Mm-hmm. Would you Too good for a hospital? Yeah. 

[01:09:40] Olivia: Yeah. Like, um, I don't know. Does that make sense? I, something what you said about like, um, something you said brought that up for me, I guess like. They're doing like a difficult, they're doing something that is responsible but also difficult in its own way and like, not pleasant, you know?

[01:10:01] Zach: Um, yeah. Yeah. I was just trying to connect your feelings about the symbols to the meetings we've discussed. 

[01:10:07] Victor: Yeah. Yeah. Just really, that makes me even more confused about what you're not like them means if 

[01:10:15] Olivia: it felt like the kids were like, taken away from their parents, um, out of necessity almost. The 

[01:10:24] Zach: centres are like social services.

[01:10:26] Olivia: Yeah. Kind of. That is kind of the vibe of it. 

[01:10:30] Victor: Is it possible? So, um, the pieces of dreams are pieces of yourself, right? Um, and you feel like you, you, um, this, this part of you that like needs to step in and like, um, protect the part of you that shows up in dreams, that, that's like, I'm responsible for making sure that everyone's safe, right?

Um, is it possible that like the, the kids represent, um, like, like your trauma or whatever, uh, and then the centar maybe reflects like the, the like part of you that has developed to like protect you and others. You know what I mean? It's like, um, like in this case, it's like the centar is like the defense mechanism of the kid they're carrying, um, because their parents like failed in some way to protect them.

[01:11:27] Olivia: Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, that does make sense. I don't know, I, I, I feel like there's, there's more here that I'm maybe gonna just have to unpack over time. Or maybe, maybe I'll try some dream incubation on this one. Oh, hell yeah. We're gonna talk about Steve every episode we have so far. Hi Steve.

What up, 

[01:11:50] Zach: Steve? Um, yeah, maybe just sit with it and we can do a, uh, a follow up if, if there are any developments. But, you know, you came in with like a strong feeling and a, in a solid thesis that I feel like we've been able to develop a little, there's just maybe like one little puzzle piece missing. Yeah.

Yeah, I think so. It's a good viewpoint to see the world as 

[01:12:13] Olivia: a dream. 

[01:12:16] Victor: So I, I googled it because like I had. I thought I remembered what the, what the amount was and I was like, that can't be, that can't be right. So I was, look, so I looked it up. Um, is this, I still don't believe this. Okay. I, I have found a website, but I don't know how legit this is.

It's like live science.com. I'm trying, I'm trying to find like, okay, there's something on New York Times Guardian plastic, deepen lungs. This might not be true, cuz this sounds crazy, but the statistic is, oh yeah. 2019 Team of scientists estimated that, uh, up to 16.2 bits of my microplastics and enter our airways every hour.

That means that you're inhaling a credit card worth of microplastics every week. No, that's what this says. No. Yeah, I'd be dead.

I think it's, it also 

[01:13:17] Zach: feels like, it feels like I would be inhaling more credit cards in Los Angeles than like somebody in, I don't know, a more rural area. So is that an average, am I inhaling two credit cards? Or, 

[01:13:30] Olivia: or, and also the question is, how much of the credit cards are you breathing back out? That's the 

[01:13:35] Victor: thing.

I think that's what it is. It's like, it's not that you're retaining a credit card worth of plastic every week, it's that like, over the course of a week, uh, a credit card worth of microplastic gets like pulled 

[01:13:47] Olivia: in and I wanna, and then out of your body, how much of that credit card is like sift, sifting through my capillaries?

Bloodstream? Yeah. 

[01:13:55] Victor: Okay. This, this brought me to nature.com. So this is legit abstract. Humans are potentially exposed to microplastics through food, drink, and air. The first two pathways have received quite some scientific attention. While little is known about the latter, blah, blah, blah, all samples were contaminated with microplastics with concentrations between 1.7 and 16.2 particles.

Uh, M minus three, I don't know what that means. Synthetic fragmented fragments and fibers accounted on average for 4% of the total identified particles. 

[01:14:27] Zach: Blah, blah, man. How long until the technology comes out where we're able to harvest the plastic from us and recycle it into like war hammer figurines or whatever?

[01:14:39] Victor: Oh, whoa. That would be crazy. That would be like, A thousand dollars to take to like harness the microplastics out of your body and make you like a d and d character from it. 

[01:14:51] Zach: Yeah. 3D print from your 

[01:14:52] Victor: own body. Yeah. It's like, it has to, like, we have to extract the plastic out of your body. That's all we're allowed to use to make you a little guy.

[01:15:00] Olivia: There's all kinds of things you could make out of that as like sentimental objects. Mm mm-hmm. To give to people on fucking Mother's Day. I dunno, 

[01:15:12] Zach: this came from inside me. 

[01:15:16] Victor: Okay. I'm gonna stop trying to decipher this scientific abstract. Um, you're inhaling microplastics people and you're breathing 'em out.

Again, some of it's in your body and some of it's not. Some of it's, I assume, dust 

[01:15:30] Zach: from ashes to ashes. 

[01:15:34] Olivia: Thank you for listening to The Jung and the Restless. 

[01:15:37] Victor: You can follow us on social media at the Jung and the Restless Pod and submit your dreams for interpretation to the Jung and the Restless pod at Gmail.

And 

[01:15:45] Zach: as we always say, for asses to 

[01:15:48] Victor: asses, butts to butts

[01:15:54] Olivia: and.

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