29. The Wobbly Room (pt 1)

The Dream Team reads a spam email because there are no listener dreams in their inbox. Olivia shares a symbol-heavy…...

The Dream Team reads a spam email because there are no listener dreams in their inbox. Olivia shares a symbol-heavy dream that she experiences twice in a row via her retelling of the dream while still within the dream. The Dream Team discovers the meaning of this dream only to leave listeners with a cliff-hanger (sorry) that is sure to have a big pay off on the next episode of The Jung and the Restless.

0:00 Intro

12:15 Olivia's double Dream

52:31 Conversation about our development as amateur dream interpreters

About Dream Bible:

Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams.  Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.


Dream Bible entries used in this episode:

Boat: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=boat

Sharks: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=sharks

Repeating: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=repeating

Dreams: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Dreams

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejungandtherestlesspod/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thejungandtherestlesspod

Check out our website for episode transcripts: https://thejungandtherestlesspodcast.com/

Submit your dreams for interpretation to thejungandtherestlesspod@gmail.com

Episode Transcript

Podcast- 23.05.30 - Vclean

Welcome to the jung and the Restless. I'm Victor. I'm Zach. And I'm Olivia. And this is the podcast where whatever happens is between you, God, and personal lubricant. Okay. I was checking the spam folder on the off chance that someone sent us a dream that ended up in there and there's like a really intriguing piece of spam,

[00:00:45] Zach: Okay.

[00:00:46] Olivia: but

[00:00:46] Victor: I don't know that I want to click on it

I don't know that it, it's safe to click on, but

[00:00:51] Olivia: but

[00:00:52] Victor: What I can see is, hello dear.

Am a dying woman here in the, that's how much I have, and it's like, oh

[00:00:59] Olivia: it. Open it.

[00:01:01] Victor: you sure. Okay. All right. Let's see.

[00:01:04] Zach: on a Mac, right? You can't get viruses.

[00:01:06] Victor: So this is from Miss Margaret Christopher. uh, and the, the subject is Humanitarian project for Less privileged. Hello, dear. I am a dying woman here in the hospital.

I was diagnosed as a coronavirus patient over two months ago. I am a business woman who is dealing with gold exportation. I am 59 year old from U S USA California.

[00:01:33] Olivia: Okay.

[00:01:34] Victor: I have a charitable and unfulfilling 


[00:01:37] Zach: from

[00:01:37] Victor: that I'm a about. 

[00:01:39] Zach: Is that what you

[00:01:39] Victor: Yeah, 

[00:01:40] Olivia: a 59 

year old from USA, California.

[00:01:44] Victor: I have a charitable and unfulfilling project that I'm about to hand over to you.

If you are interested to know more about this project, please reply me. Hope to hear from you. Best regard. Miss Margaret,

[00:01:59] Olivia: I have a charitable and unfulfilling project that I'm about to hand over

[00:02:03] Victor: you.

[00:02:03] Olivia: you. 

[00:02:05] Zach: enticing, 

[00:02:07] Victor: you

know, guys, I keep saying that I need something new in my life and, uh, maybe this is it.

Maybe I take over Miss Margaret's, uh, gold exportation charity for Unfulfilling

[00:02:18] Zach: something new and unfulfilling. I'm just glad that she's using the last little bit of time. She has left wisely

tracking us

[00:02:27] Olivia: Sending emails to random people. Yeah. Finding, trying to find someone to take on her unfulfilling project.

[00:02:35] Zach: I really wanna know is if she has a dream. We can, that we can interpret

[00:02:39] Victor: Yeah. We could

[00:02:40] Olivia: Why don't you ask her?

[00:02:43] Victor: All right. So no dreams, just spam.

[00:02:46] Zach: it's kinda refreshing that some people are doing spam the old fashioned way and not with chat G P T.

[00:02:51] Victor: Yeah, that feels authentic. You know, a person had to write that with 

their own 

[00:02:55] Zach: There there's no

[00:02:56] Olivia: from usa, California.

[00:02:58] Victor: Yeah, 

[00:02:59] Zach: just there two hands in Google translate.

[00:03:02] Victor: we're not gonna have that for very long. We're not gonna have like authentic spam

[00:03:06] Zach: Oh. Spam is gonna be so hard to parse through with like perfect AI grammar

[00:03:11] Victor: oh 

[00:03:11] Olivia: oh

man. Yeah. 

That was my favorite, um, thing about our old job was the spam

[00:03:17] Zach: yeah, how we would, that's how we would start our day after like talking about our dreams. Cuz that was the genesis of this podcast

[00:03:26] Olivia: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Zach: was, uh, We were working so early in the morning that we still had like dream clutter banging around in our heads so that we would talk about while the coffee was kicking in, um, but then straight to the spam folder to read what the Russians had to say.

[00:03:41] Olivia: There was one that was so good. That we printed it out and put it on the wall.

[00:03:47] Victor: Yeah, I remember you came home from work. Like, I have to redo this spam message that I got at 

work today.

[00:03:54] Zach: Do you still have that?

[00:03:56] Olivia: Yeah, I do have it somewhere. 

[00:03:58] Zach: Our boss sort of wrote her emails like a Russian spam bot.

[00:04:03] Victor: There were a lot of spammy things going on at that job.

[00:04:08] Zach: Speaking of AI writing spam, I heard that there's a, um, scammers are starting to use AI to replicate voices on spam calls. Have you heard about

[00:04:19] Olivia: Oh,

[00:04:20] Victor: I've heard that.

[00:04:21] Zach: Yeah. So they can, like, if, if they find a way to, you know, get this information from you, they can like, replicate the sound of like someone's voice close to you and call you with like, you know, like, they'll call you and it'll be my voice saying I'm in jail and I need you to send me bail money to, you know, such and such

[00:04:42] Victor: Yeah, I was tell, I was telling my grandmother about that, um, the other week and she was like, yes, that just happened to me. And I was like, really? And she was like, yes. I got a call from this person that who sounded exactly like you, and they said, oh, grandma, I need blah, blah, blah, blah. And she asked like, uh, what is my name?

[00:05:10] Zach: Good question.

[00:05:10] Victor: didn't know and hung up, but she was like, and they sounded just like you. And she was insistent on 


[00:05:18] Zach: a savvy grandma. 

[00:05:19] Victor: I don't think so. I don't think it did sound just like 

me. I think. I think that was, uh, maybe in her mind. Yeah.

[00:05:27] Zach: Yeah. It must have sounded off enough to tip her off like that.

[00:05:30] Victor: like I'm skeptical that it was one of the AI things. I think it was just like, you know, that feels 

right. In 


[00:05:39] Zach: dude like, yo, grandma, I'm Victor,

[00:05:42] Victor: exactly. And she was like, it sounds just like him.

[00:05:46] Zach: did you send like 20 bucks to my PayPal, Jimmy Boy, 69 at Venmo. But that is, yeah, that's, that's the target for these nefarious people is, you know, older, older folk.

[00:06:00] Victor: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:00] Zach: So good for her and us, you know, thinking to, to ask that question.

[00:06:05] Victor: Yeah, there was, she did like, she, she got got like a, a while ago where

[00:06:11] Olivia: like, oh, right at like literally the day before our wedding.

[00:06:14] Victor: yeah. Like right before we got married.

[00:06:16] Zach: Oh shit.

[00:06:17] Victor: Um, she,

She must have like clicked on a link or something, you know, but it sent her down this pipeline where basically someone like took remote control on her computer and showed her like a bullshit webpage that looked like her bank, but was like, it was basically like a very elaborate way to get it.

The old, like, you have to wire me X amount of money cuz you owe me this money because of some Misha with wire transfers or something. And she like went to the bank trying to figure out, figure it out. And the guy like, had her on the phone the whole time like, and don't tell him that we're doing this for this, you want to tell him this because that's ha that'll help us both, you know, and like, yeah, it was, it was sad.

Uh, and, but like, thankfully the people in the bank pretty quickly picked up on what was going on and like leap into action and helped 

[00:07:12] Zach: So she didn't lose any

[00:07:13] Victor: sorted out. 

No, it all, it all worked out. But like, but she was like fully like on the track. I think that's the only time she's ever really gotten 

[00:07:22] Olivia: she had to change all of her bank

[00:07:24] Victor: Yeah. She had to just change everything, but she ended up not losing

[00:07:27] Zach: No. Well that's explains why she's skeptical now.

[00:07:31] Olivia: Right. I've seen much younger people fall for much stupider scams

[00:07:36] Zach: yeah.

[00:07:36] Victor: Oh yeah. Repeatedly.

[00:07:38] Olivia: Oh. The

[00:07:39] Victor: over and over 

[00:07:40] Olivia: over

and over again.

[00:07:41] Victor: Yeah. 

With people around them saying, no, that's the scam. Just like last time. And they said, no, this time it's real.

[00:07:50] Zach: Yeah, I got, got in a really old school way at a very young age when I was in like high school and had like, my income was my first high school job, you know, like I barely hit any money in my name. And I got got by one of those good old fashioned magazine subscription, like an in-person scam. Like somebody at the mall, this attractive girl about my age came up to me and was like, my softball team is trying to go to Florida 

[00:08:20] Olivia: right. 

[00:08:21] Zach: you know, if you just sign up for, you know, pick three of these magazines out of this catalog and you'll get a subscription to them for just 40 bucks.

And I, I went to an ATM to get this chick 40 bucks and you know, obviously never saw a magazine.

[00:08:35] Victor: Ah,

[00:08:36] Zach: But that's, that's a, that's a real old school classic scam.

[00:08:40] Olivia: Yeah. At least it was just the 40 bucks, right? Cash.

[00:08:44] Zach: Yeah. Cash out of an atm. So,

[00:08:46] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:08:47] Zach: but I think that jaded me a little bit.

[00:08:49] Victor: I remember like right after I graduated high school, I got a call that was like con, like, congratulations, we're calling to offer you a job.

[00:09:02] Olivia: Congratulations on graduating. Here's your job.

[00:09:05] Victor: Yeah, exactly. It was that, I don't know. It was like, huh, this is a lot easier than people say it is. 


and it was like the Cutco knife people.

[00:09:16] Olivia: yeah. Trying

[00:09:17] Victor: to like reel you into that. I don't know

[00:09:18] Zach: Another classic. Yeah.

[00:09:20] Victor: Yeah, yeah. And like I was like, I was like, oh yeah, that sounds interesting. But then I 

googled it a 

[00:09:26] Zach: it can cut through a shoe.

[00:09:28] Victor: Yeah, I almost bit, but then I did my research and I think I just, like obnoxiously left like a, shitty voicemail for the guy at the number that called me. I don't know. I was, I was 19. I don't know. Um, but yeah,

[00:09:45] Zach: Yeah, those job recruiting scams are really frustrating,

[00:09:48] Victor: definitely, I dated a girl that fell for one of those where it was like, they hire you, um, but then it's like, we're gonna send you some money. Oh, now you need to send us money back. But it's like a fake check and it's to get you to send them money to, you know, 

those things. 

[00:10:05] Zach: They always prey on the, you know, vulnerable people. So, you know, the elderly or people who just desperately need a job, who shouldn't have money. So it's bad target, you know. Like, if you're desperately looking for a job, ostensibly you don't have a lot in your account,

[00:10:23] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:10:24] Zach: but I guess it's the identity they want.

Cuz I did, I got a call one time when I was looking for a job in Seattle, from like, it was a, the, the facade was that it was a job placement service.

[00:10:36] Victor: Hmm.

[00:10:37] Zach: and the la what I thought was a lady that I spoke to on the phone, I'm pretty sure now, it was like an automated like, or pre-recorded voice that, uh, responded to a, like a matrix, like a phone tree kind of thing. You know, you say this and then it automatically plays that. Um, because it, it, she sounded very affable when that, and was asking very normal questions, you know, trying to like gauge if I wanted to. To be part of this like job placement service. And I was interested, so I was going along with it, but then at a certain point it like transferred me to another person who was way more aggressive in asking for way more personal information.

I just hung up cuz I was, and I was so embarrassed that I spent like 30 minutes doing this cuz it was clearly like they, the robot does the farming to, to find gullible SAPs and then sends it to the person who actually does the scamming. And

[00:11:37] Olivia: Man, 

[00:11:38] Victor: that's, that's 

sophisticated. Yeah. 

[00:11:40] Zach: out there.

[00:11:41] Victor: Yeah. It really is.

[00:11:43] Zach: So welcome to Yoga The Restless,

[00:11:47] Victor: Yeah.

[00:11:47] Olivia: this is a Dream interpretation podcast where we shoot the shit about whatever,

[00:11:54] Zach: apparently.

Should we get into some dreams?

[00:11:58] Olivia: yeah, let's 

[00:11:58] Zach: of complaining about evil people in the world.

[00:12:01] Olivia: I don't know how much of this we wanna interpret, as much as it's just an interesting thing

[00:12:23] Victor: That means that's the juiciest dream we've had in months.

[00:12:26] Olivia: Uh, so I had this dream two nights ago. Where I was on a boat I was kind of on the bow of the boat. And, um, our, a couple of our friends were there and, they're a couple in real life and she was mad at him for some reason.

I'm not sure why. Um, And I kept having to go in and out of the boat to like get something. I kept forgetting stuff and I went in and out like three times. And, and the last time when I came out it was, uh, suddenly very sunny out and there was a captain and there were a bunch of passengers that were on the boat that were now out swimming in the water.

And the captain said to me, uh, yeah, this is Cozy Cove. I don't usually like to stop here because it's dangerous.

[00:13:16] Victor: Um,

[00:13:17] Olivia: and yeah. And so then I was trying to get everybody back into the boat, and then cut to, I am suddenly in front of like a haunted house experience thing and I. Remembered I had to get a code for my email to get in the door.

And so I like get the code from my email, punch it in, and go in the door. And I'm with a group of like five people. I don't recognize them. but we're walking through this haunted house and it's like, it's a mansion and it's really dark. And I, every now and then we'll see like shadows and like people figures, like in the distance.

It was spooky. Oh, and there was like a curated playlist playing like, like they had picked songs that was supposed to be each of our favorite songs. Um, and then the hallway gets a little bit brighter and I see ahead of me, I see like these tall figures that also kind of looked like teddy bear people, like they had like teddy bear ears.

and the room was like wobbling, like, 

[00:14:23] Zach: Like a mushroom trip. Yeah,

[00:14:25] Olivia: but it was like, you could feel it like through your whole body. Um, and it, it was kind of fun. Like I started giggling and 

we came around the corner, right? We came around the corner and we're in this room and there's like a host. The host is there, and she, um, explains that the wobbling.

Thing is like a new technology to make life more enjoyable and like, and she's like, see, look. And she gives us all vacuums and we're all vacuuming now, but, but the wobbling is still happening and we're all just like giggling and having a great time. It's like being on a trampoline. Like it was like fun.

 And yeah, and then we, we all masturbated, , um, yeah, just, uh, then there were all these like little twin sized beds and, um, she was like tucking us in. Do these little beds and I had the thought of this is a cult. And then cut back to the boat, the very beginning of the dream. The couple are arguing and I am telling Brenda, I'm telling

[00:15:40] Zach: The Brenda.

[00:15:41] Victor: yes,

[00:15:42] Olivia: I'm telling Brenda the dream.

That just happened. And so I'm telling her like, oh yeah, so they were on the boat and, and she's mad at him for some reason. And I kept having to go in and outta the boat. I couldn't remember. I kept forgetting stuff like once I forgot sunscreen and something else. And then when I came out the last time, it was suddenly sunny q it's actually sunny.

Like this is all happening around me as I'm telling her the dream. Um, and so I'm telling her the dream, the exact dream I just told you, there are a few key differences. at Cozy Cove, everyone was out swimming and there were sharks. Sharks were the danger. Um,

[00:16:25] Zach: Not so cozy.

[00:16:26] Olivia: and then like when I was trying to get everybody back on the boat, there were suddenly two boats.

I'm on one boat telling Brenda the dream my dad is on that boat with his. Girlfriend who is not a real person, just like any, someone, some random person stand in. Um, and then there's these other people that I know from real life. They're on a separate boat and they're like, they kind of seemed like they were gonna go a different direction.

And I said, you guys should follow us. There's more to the dream, uh, just wait. Like you don't even know where this is going. It gets kind of crazy, like, you're not gonna wanna miss 


[00:17:04] Zach: real 

[00:17:04] Olivia: so, so then they're following us and I'm like about to tell Brenda like, about the haunted house, which would take us there, but.

My dad's girlfriend like kind of starts talking. She's like, she kind of started just like asking us questions and I felt like she was like interrupting the dream and like St. Like she made it so that we were just on a boat ride for however long she was talking. Until I could continue, I. Telling the dream.

Um, she was like, how do I work out? And I was like, I don't know. I don't know how you work out. And then she was like, how do I meet people? And I was like, I don't know, join a Facebook group. and then when I finally told Brenda, like, I was like, okay, so then next we're getting, we go to a haunted house and like suddenly the boat is like on a trail, like, uh, coming to a stop in front of the haunted house.

And I get out and then, um, Brenda isn't there for the rest of the dream, but the other people in the other boat are there. And they get out with me and I'm like, oh, somebody needs to get the code from their email. Uh, I don't have it this time. I don't know. And um, we get in and, 

Everyone's really scared.

They're all really, really scared of this whole situation. And I am like, kind of feel responsible for them having a good time. Like I kept like trying to be like, uh, don't worry, like it's gonna be fine. Like, it's just wait. Like we'll get to the end, it'll be fun. Um, they're all just like so scared. And like at one point, three of them pissed their pants like at the same time.

And um, and then like we get around the corner to like the part where it starts to get wobbly. And I was like, Ooh, guys, like it's fun. Like here's the wobbly part. And

[00:18:52] Victor: And

[00:18:53] Olivia: um, they were like, aha, okay. And when we get to the room at the end, the host.

[00:19:00] Victor: uh,

[00:19:00] Olivia: Uh, all that happened at the end of, of this version was she, she said, she said like, welcome.

My name is Lia, uh, which is not a name, but it was like e a R l I a early, earlier. Um, and, and she started like bitching about how that used to be an, like an uncommon name, but it's really popular on the baby name charts. Um, and then I woke up.

[00:19:30] Zach: Yeah, I don't know if you want to interpret that.

[00:19:32] Olivia: No, I don't know.

[00:19:34] Zach: Not much there.

[00:19:37] Olivia: I don't 

think so. 

[00:19:38] Victor: You guys wanna talk about scams some 

more or? 

[00:19:42] Zach: with, uh, potential symbols and you still.

[00:19:46] Olivia: I just thought it was so funny that like I immediately, because this, this is hap, this is a like a byproduct of doing this podcast. I keep having dreams where I have a dream and then I immediately tell somebody the dream while I'm still dreaming.

[00:20:00] Zach: Yeah. The crazy part about that to me is that you stayed so firmly in the dream world like that or that specific, uh, location within, like, you didn't, every time you changed scenes, it didn't seem like you radically changed dreams. You kept, you remembered, you know, the, the email and the, and, and the trippy room.

[00:20:20] Olivia: yeah. And if the thing that was. Interesting to me was like, I remember feeling like I wouldn't have thought that the boat stuff and the haunted house stuff were, I would've ki kind of thought those were two different dreams. But the fact that I retold it, like I retold it as one dream

[00:20:40] Zach: Within the dream.

[00:20:41] Olivia: within the dream, like makes me sure that it's all one thing.

[00:20:46] Victor: Yeah. And the second time through, you tried to conjure new continuity between the things with the boat being on the trail.

[00:20:53] Olivia: Yeah, that's true. Trying

[00:20:54] Victor: to draw a connection from one.

[00:20:56] Olivia: the boat was like in the water and then it was suddenly like skidding to a halt on a trail.

[00:21:02] Zach: do you remember, when you pulled up the email confirmation thing, was that on your phone? Within the dream?

[00:21:09] Olivia: Yeah,

[00:21:09] Zach: Do you remember what the screen of the phone looked like?

[00:21:12] Olivia: I think it looked normal.

[00:21:13] Zach: So you could operate a phone? Because that's the thing we've talked about before, the.

[00:21:17] Olivia: Yeah,

[00:21:18] Victor: has no problem

[00:21:18] Olivia: I don't 

[00:21:19] Victor: and her dreams. I can't do phones in

[00:21:21] Olivia: sometimes I have a problem. Sometimes it's totally fine. Actually, the other, last night I read a book in my dream, I swear to, yeah, no, I read, like, I read like two whole pages of a book. I was in therapy in my dream and she was like, you need to read this book out loud to me right 


And I did. 

[00:21:40] Zach: the, the real amount of time it would take to read two pages of a book.

[00:21:43] Olivia: It felt like it. Yeah. I mean, maybe it was, it was 

probably not, but it 

[00:21:47] Zach: but like,

[00:21:48] Olivia: it felt accurate. And I was reading words like, I remember 

like reading 

[00:21:51] Zach: I think it's common, if not accepted as a fact that it's like impossible to read a cell phone screen in a dream.

[00:21:58] Olivia: Yeah, I have a harder time with, I have a hard time with phone screens a lot of the time, but it was just like, it was, so usually what the problem will be was, is that like, I can't like open up my email and like, get to the right app and like I can't navigate the pH the interface. Whereas like what happened in this dream was I just like, pulled up my phone and my email was open and the code was right there.

So it, it like made it really easy for 

[00:22:23] Zach: yeah, I asked because that jumped out at me cuz I recently had a dream and I don't remember anything else in the dream. I just remember this image. I remember looking at my phone and I was trying to use Google Maps and everything el All I wanted to know was a, an ETA of when I would get to, uh, the destination and everything on my screen looked like a frosted window pane.

Like it looked, it looked like it, like, had frozen over with literal frost except where the ETA is on Google maps. Uh, and I,

[00:22:57] Olivia: So it made it kind of

[00:22:58] Zach: so I could see the E E T A and that's, but it's like my brain was like, this is the information you want. It's what you need. The rest, we can't bother conjuring right now. It's, uh, irrelevant.

[00:23:08] Olivia: Oh yeah. No, I think, okay, so my phone screen looked like, it kind of looked like a confirmation email. Like it looked like

[00:23:16] Victor: like

[00:23:17] Olivia: four digits, like large on the screen. And like there was some other texts, but I wasn't reading that. I was just looking at the 

[00:23:23] Zach: It was like when AI tries to,

[00:23:28] Victor: Hmm.

[00:23:28] Olivia: Hmm.

[00:23:29] Zach: or when, when AI art tries to put a word within the image and it's just like gibberish. That kind of looks like English.

[00:23:35] Victor: I feel like when you think about something like that, that's like, oh, this is impossible to doing dreams or whatever. Like your, your brain will then try and sometimes work out how to make that happen. Like, I remember we were talking a, a fair bit about how I couldn't do the phone screen thing, and then I had a dream where my brain did kind of do it, but it was the experience where like, do, do you ever have a, have something happen in a dream where it's like it's, it kind of goes full screen.

It's like your whole awareness is this thing. I had like a phone experience, but it was like my whole awareness was just this screen with text 


[00:24:13] Zach: Like it punches in like a close up in a movie.

[00:24:17] Victor: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But like, I couldn't do it until we were talking about how I couldn't do it a lot, and then my brain was like, figured out a way to make it 


[00:24:26] Zach: telling Shelby about the frosty cell phone screen and I realized while I was talking about it that it seems like the bigger the screen, the easier it is cuz in, I feel like in dreams, I've seen TV screens or movie screens where I could fully see what's going on and sometimes it does the punch in thing and then it loses the thread and it thinks that the, it goes into a new dream based on what was on the screen, but it's fully, it's a full image.

And then on the cell phone it was this like only the important information. And then if I try to look at like a watch, it's like, fucking forget about it.

[00:25:00] Olivia: Yeah, I think dreams have a hard time with like keeping details in focus and when you're trying to like gain information from something detailed like that, it makes sense that it would be difficult.

[00:25:12] Victor: Which it's, which is why it's like freak shit that you were able to read like multiple pages of a 

[00:25:18] Zach: Right, 

[00:25:18] Victor: the other night. 

[00:25:20] Olivia: yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It was, it was a funny, it was a weird book too. It was a weird book to be reading in therapy.

[00:25:28] Zach: wasn't like a narc episode and you were actually in real life reading a book upside down.

[00:25:34] Olivia: Yeah, no, it was, it was, um, a book about someone named Linda who was a porn star. and there was like a whole section on identifying mushrooms

[00:25:46] Victor: on Linda, or, oh,

[00:25:49] Olivia: no, actually, the, the, the mushroom section had to do with like, I remember I told my therapist, I was like, I kind of skipped over that part. And she was like, go back cuz that's where all the clues are and how to solve the murder.

[00:26:02] Zach: Um,

[00:26:04] Victor: Wait, let's do this dream now.

[00:26:07] Zach: so,

[00:26:08] Victor: everything you just told me. Look, tell me that dream

[00:26:11] Zach: so Linda Loveless Lovelace. I just googled this. I, I

[00:26:17] Olivia: just Googled Linda Pornstar.

[00:26:19] Zach: Linda porn star book. Linda Lovelace was a porn star, apparently. Oh, is she from, is she from Deep Throat? That, that, that's a, I've never seen

it. I've never seen it, but it's apparently a classic. Uh, she's written several books.

[00:26:37] Victor: is that a porn parody of the Watergate scandal?

[00:26:42] Zach: She seems like a, actually a prolific author inside Linda Lovelace's Deep Throat. She wrote a book called Ordeal and a book called Out of Bondage. Huh, interesting. Probably not relevant.

[00:26:55] Victor: But how cool would it be if you like, were reading it and it was exactly what was

[00:26:59] Zach: Yeah. Maybe you should, or maybe you should order every book by Linda Lovelace and see if you can find the two pages.


[00:27:07] Victor: okay, so I guess 


[00:27:08] Zach: on that detail. Sorry.

[00:27:10] Victor: should try and interpret this long. I have like 20 

Dream Bible 

[00:27:14] Olivia: don't even know if we want to like, I just thought it was funny that I like,

[00:27:18] Victor: Okay. But we do though. You're fine. We 

do want to take a crack at it.

[00:27:23] Olivia: Okay.

[00:27:24] Zach: I mean, yeah, let,

[00:27:25] Victor: you for sharing.

[00:27:27] Zach: let's talk about it and see if an interpretation happens.

[00:27:30] Victor: Right.

[00:27:31] Olivia: There's nothing there.

[00:27:33] Zach: Famous last words,

[00:27:35] Victor: Whatever me,

[00:27:36] Zach: obviously, or obviously, um, the, the, the masturbation section felt like a, a snippet out of one of my dreams.

[00:27:45] Olivia: I, I just feel like you're corrupting my dreams.

[00:27:48] Zach: And then we all jerked off. Uh, was it, um, was it a thing like. Like you saw it, like, it, like it was a, a scene in the dream? Or was it one of those things where you had the knowledge that it happened?

[00:28:00] Olivia: It was like a scene in the dream. Yeah,

[00:28:02] Zach: That's pretty, um,

[00:28:05] Olivia: like a circle too.

[00:28:07] Zach: a circle jerk. Okay. Was there a cookie in the middle

[00:28:11] Olivia: Oh God.

[00:28:12] Victor: Okay, so I don't even want to click through all these times. I've got boat swimming, haunted house emails, Teddy bear moving, masturbation.

[00:28:25] Olivia: think we gotta pick like, top five.

[00:28:27] Victor: The,

[00:28:28] Olivia: I I think boat, not swimming.

[00:28:31] Zach: haunted house? Is that, is

[00:28:33] Olivia: Haunted house. Yes.

[00:28:35] Victor: not doing that. We're gonna work our way from the front. Okay. To the back. Okay, let's walk our way through this thing.

[00:28:41] Olivia: front to back.

[00:28:42] Victor: All right. So boat, uh, the dream of boat represents your ability to cope with negative emotions or deal with negative situations. How are you navigating ne negativity in your life? Your method of confronting problems or getting through difficult problems safely, safely, avoiding troubling situations. Um, it says consider the condition of the water.

[00:29:03] Olivia: what

[00:29:04] Victor: was the water like?

[00:29:05] Olivia: So, at the beginning when, at the beginning when the couple was, um, fighting or like she was mad at him? Uh, It was like choppy water and the skies were gray. And then when I like, kept going in and out and like finally got all of my fucking shit that I needed out of the boat, and I came out the last time it was sunny and like the water was calm and blue in the first rendition of the dream.

In the second one, it was sunny and it was a little more choppy and there were sharks.

[00:29:41] Victor: Uh, I think it's interesting that, um, when there was danger is when it was like sunny and calm and everything, right?

[00:29:49] Olivia: Yeah. Um, and

[00:29:51] Victor: and there's an example here in the boat entry. Uh, a woman dreamed of getting on a boat to avoid a shark in waking life.

She was, in waking life, she was, had changed her regular habits to avoid a man. She was,

[00:30:07] Olivia: had changed her regular habits

[00:30:09] Victor: to avoid a man whom she felt was too sexually aggressive, hoping that he would eventually just give up and go away. Oh

[00:30:16] Olivia: Oh God. 

[00:30:16] Victor: geez. All right. It's dark. It is. Um, all right. So

[00:30:22] Olivia: I did at one point jump in the boat to get away from a shark because I think I like ended up on a surfboard.

Uh, yeah, and the second part where there were sharks, I like was trying to get everyone back into the boat and I was like, somehow on a surfboard. and yeah, there, there were, the shark was coming after me at one point. I, I jumped on the boat.

[00:30:46] Zach: So shark seems like a good one to go to next.

[00:30:49] Olivia: yeah, I think so.

[00:30:50] Victor: Okay. Skipping swimming. Yeah. Is that what we're doing? Okay. Well, were there sharks in the first part of the dream? No.

I will do sharks. But under protest, um,

[00:31:01] Olivia: to dream

[00:31:02] Victor: of sharks represents terrifying vulnerabilities or feelings of impending doom. You may feel like you can't do anything except wait for a negative event to slowly ruin you.

Feeling very nervous about an outcome that feels dangerous or inevitable. Sharks are a symbol that often appears when people are having very difficult life situations where they fear terrible consequences or having doubts feel that a problem is leading straight to failure while they can do nothing about it.

Troubled waters in your life or expecting the worst. A wish to avoid a problem or confrontation at all costs, a sign that you are too hesitant or quiet about your problems.

[00:31:40] Zach: This is kind of a sidebar, and I think I've raised this question before. What do you think it means? Because all of those sound like very adult problems,

[00:31:52] Victor: Hmm.

[00:31:52] Zach: but I dreamt about sharks all the time as a little kid. Do you think that, is that in, in that case, lit, just a literal fear of having seen jaws and being traumatized by it?

[00:32:05] Victor: Definitely can, can be that. Yeah. Um,

[00:32:08] Olivia: like the underlying thing below all of these adult problems are like fear, right? And, and anxiety and, and

[00:32:17] Zach: yeah, but like what 

[00:32:18] Olivia: kid symbolism is 

maybe a watered down version.

[00:32:21] Zach: or a vague existential, cause I do remember, I, I did have like kind of like vague existential panic attacks as a kid. Like I did. I didn't know what I was freaking out about. I just had G a D undiagnosed and, uh, so I mean, I, I guess, yeah, it could be that.

[00:32:38] Victor: It says here, alt alternatively sharks may also represent people or situations that you perceive to be relentless or that have no remorse. And, and the sense I'm getting here is like, you know, a terrible thing that you, that is like overpowering you can't do anything about, which I'm sure is maybe something a child would feel, you know, is that like the, the problems that exist are outside of your control.

Nothing you can do

[00:33:03] Zach: especially if you have anxiety and you're too young to know what anxiety is, and so you don't realize that the constant feeling of impending doom is not a logical thing, but just, uh, your brain being mean to you.

[00:33:16] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:33:16] Victor: because the symbolism is tied to the human experience of a shirk being terrifying. Right. You know? So it's like, oh, that is an unstoppable killing machine that if I were in the wrong situation at the wrong time, I could do nothing to prevent this thing from murdering me, except for the guy that I guess can bob him on the nose and be fine.

I don't know. I guess that's a thing. But, um,

[00:33:39] Zach: So yeah, having seen Jaws and then attaching it to that, I mean, that's whatever your entry point to sharks is. I mean that's, I guess that's how we get these cultural symbols for these kinds of

[00:33:48] Olivia: I think I did that. I think I touched it on the face and I think I remember feel

[00:33:54] Victor: You killed a shark with your bare

[00:33:55] Olivia: No, I just

[00:33:56] Zach: then read a


[00:33:57] Olivia: on the face and I remember thinking in the dream that it felt like a hot dog.

[00:34:04] Victor: Yeah. That feels right. 

[00:34:06] Zach: know, wet hot dog.

[00:34:09] Victor: Jaws is like, uh, an exaggeration of, of like the very primal shark fear.

Right. It's like you take, you take the idea of a shark and you kind of manifest it of, oh, this unstoppable thing that is,

[00:34:22] Zach: But if that's how you, if that's how you learn about sharks, you know, that's the, uh, aura Boris, you know, the snake eating its tail. It's like

the cultural. Caricature of a cultural fear of sharks informing a brand new person's conception of what a shark is.

[00:34:40] Victor: Right, right. Your first exposure to it is like an artistic representation that's trying to get at those same concepts using the symbolism of a shark. Anyway. You two went to film school, so you should have, I don't know, written a paper about this or

[00:34:58] Zach: I might have,

[00:34:58] Victor: Yeah,

[00:34:59] Olivia: haunted house.

[00:35:03] Victor: Hey, I don't do requests

[00:35:05] Zach: that would be a sick, haunted house. It's like a combination haunted house. Yeah. Like a combination haunted house, uh, waterpark.

[00:35:13] Victor: Whoa.

[00:35:14] Zach: And you, you, you go in, in your swim trunks and you have to, A lot of it is swimming base and then there's like divers that grab your ankles.

[00:35:22] Victor: Okay. 

[00:35:22] Olivia: you have to go down the water slide to 

escape the, 

[00:35:25] Zach: I would never do that on an house cuz I, that sounds like a nightmare, but I bet people would love that.

[00:35:30] Victor: yeah. Cut this out of the recording. And we need to find funding and you and I are in business

[00:35:36] Zach: Hell yeah.

[00:35:37] Victor: Okay. Absolutely. That is a very good 


[00:35:41] Olivia: a good idea.

[00:35:42] Victor: Um, okay. Two.

[00:35:44] Olivia:

don't know. Okay. I just wanna, before we go, reading 20 Dream Bible entries, I don't know that we're gonna Frankenstein this together.

[00:35:52] Zach: You seem very resistant to

[00:35:55] Victor: Yeah, that's how it sounds to me. It sounds like you don't wanna dig into this too much.

[00:35:59] Olivia: No, I was, I was gonna say maybe we could gestalt it, but,

[00:36:04] Victor: uh, yeah. What feels like it has the most energy to you, the jerk off session where everybody was in a circle there,

[00:36:11] Zach: Which person in the jerk op session

[00:36:13] Olivia: the host, 

[00:36:14] Zach: the most energy?

[00:36:16] Victor: Was the host masturbating with the rest of you, or, 

[00:36:19] Olivia: know.

[00:36:19] Zach: also.

[00:36:20] Victor: Was she just watching?

[00:36:21] Zach: You, you, uh, at one point you said, uh, I think it was around the time you brought up the jerk off session, you, you, you mentioned cult energy, which is a thing from, that's come up in your dreams before.

[00:36:33] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:36:33] Victor: Yeah.

[00:36:34] Zach: Um, do you remember last time you had a cult dream?

That I recall It was the one, think it was the, it was the two part,

[00:36:43] Olivia: trolley cult. At the

[00:36:43] Victor: trolley called, yeah.

[00:36:44] Zach: was the, it was the two parter, right?

[00:36:47] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:36:48] Victor: Yeah. Where I was probably gonna get chopped up and fed to dogs and, um, we didn't crack it. I remember that was when we were hitting a period where you were having a really hard time cracking your dreams

[00:36:58] Zach: But does this dream share an energy or a feeling with that dream?

[00:37:04] Olivia: Oh. Of the two part situation where they're like, mirroring each other. Let's look at that. Yeah.

[00:37:10] Zach: Look at what.

[00:37:11] Olivia: Oh, like in that, in the dream you're talking about, it was a two-parter that HA had two different scenes, but they were like following the same format.

[00:37:22] Victor: And in this, it's a two-parter, but it's like one is the experience and then the other one is trying to like follow

[00:37:29] Olivia: oh, well I was thinking of the boat stuff versus the haunted house stuff.

It was like 50 50. Like 


[00:37:36] Zach: what I thought you meant. Yeah.

[00:37:38] Olivia: that is what I meant.

[00:37:39] Zach: Um, but I was asking if you were like, just specifically the cult element in each stream. Do, do they share, do they give you the same vibe?

[00:37:50] Olivia: 

The fir, the trolley cult was like a gross old man cannibal cult. This felt more like Teal Swan.

[00:37:59] Zach: Okay.

[00:38:00] Victor: So did this person 

have like a menacing energy? What did this, did this uh, cult leader person have like kind of a menacing energy?

[00:38:10] Olivia: No, she seemed great.

[00:38:13] Victor: Okay, so Teal Swan.

[00:38:15] Olivia: yeah,

[00:38:15] Victor: Yeah,

[00:38:16] Zach: great. Yeah.

[00:38:17] Olivia: exactly.

[00:38:18] Victor: We're gonna get sued by Teal Swan.

[00:38:21] Olivia: care. Swanee's come after us.

[00:38:24] Zach: did you ever meet her, by the way?

[00:38:27] Olivia: I never met her.

[00:38:28] Zach: I got to work with her a couple times at our old job.

[00:38:33] Olivia: Yeah, I watched the sh I remember watching

[00:38:36] Victor: the documentary.

[00:38:37] Olivia: No, like it was just funny to watch her on the show at our old job because it was like, she was, it was like she was invited there to talk about her new Oracle card deck and, and our boss like, didn't fucking know that she runs a cult and like that there was a lot of interesting stuff that she could have talked to Teal Swan about, but she just wanted to know about this like fucking Oracle card deck.

And Teal Swan was looking at her like, you're an idiot. Uh, but I guess I'll tell you about my stupid cards.

[00:39:07] Victor: She also didn't really want to know about the Oracle card deck. She was just like talking over this cult leader the entire time 

[00:39:14] Zach: Which is hilarious in retrospect. 

[00:39:16] Victor: experienced in her life.

It's like, oh, if I could get a single sentence out, I would hypnotize you with my charisma, but you just will not stop talking.

[00:39:25] Olivia: Teal Swan kept getting this look on her face. Like, you don't know who I am. Do you?

[00:39:30] Zach: She was, she was oddly charismatic. I, I just talked to her,


[00:39:34] Olivia: a cult

[00:39:35] Zach: I talked to her briefly about pizza over Zoom and I was like, I love you.

[00:39:39] Olivia: Yeah. You and every other.

[00:39:43] Zach: Yep. Yep.

[00:39:49] Olivia: but yeah, no, this, uh, earlier she gave her, she gave her name in the second rendition of this dream, which was interesting. 

 I felt like the second time I got around, To the wobbly room. It was like I was one of her people and I was like, she knew who I was and I was like introducing these

[00:40:14] Victor: scared people

[00:40:16] Olivia: I brought with me 

to her. 

[00:40:18] Zach: you're, you're like a, an acolyte.

[00:40:20] Olivia: I'm like a L recruiter. Yeah.

[00:40:23] Zach: The wobbly room does sound like a weird cult thing.

[00:40:27] Olivia: The wobbly room was so 

[00:40:29] Zach: Hey, if you don't calm down, we're gonna put you in the wobbly room.

[00:40:32] Olivia: You ever see that TikTok filter that literally just makes your whole body like

[00:40:36] Zach: Like a fun

[00:40:36] Olivia: do a yes. Uh, it was like that, but like you felt it like

[00:40:42] Zach: Like a, yeah, like a, like I joked about a mushroom trip is what it sounds like to me.

[00:40:48] Olivia: Yeah. But like you felt it though.

[00:40:50] Zach: don't you feel

[00:40:51] Victor: to think of 

[00:40:52] Zach: I f

[00:40:53] Victor: that. That's, that would be the key to true happiness. Like, like just if we were able to make things wobbly, like 

all of our problems 

would go away. Everyone would be like in pure joy all 


[00:41:05] Zach:

[00:41:05] Olivia: revolutionary. 

[00:41:06] Zach: happy on mushrooms.

[00:41:09] Victor: It's

[00:41:09] Olivia: not like mushrooms. It was not like mushrooms.

It was, 

[00:41:12] Zach: that then.

[00:41:13] Olivia: it was not like mushroom Zach.

[00:41:15] Zach: Okay.

[00:41:16] Olivia: It

[00:41:17] Victor: like a wobbly, haunted house 


made you horny.

[00:41:22] Zach: can you not wrap your head around that?

[00:41:26] Victor: not like mushrooms at all.

[00:41:32] Zach: Is there a Dream Bible entry for circle jerk?

[00:41:36] Victor: Uh, I mean, there's masturbation, which we must have read half a dozen times on here. The listeners probably are very familiar with the masturbation entry.

[00:41:43] Zach: I know I am.

[00:41:44] Victor: Um, all right. So do you wanna keep hearing these entries, Olivia, or are you just super resistant to knowing what the 

stream is about? 

Really not interested in having your psyche take into,

[00:41:57] Olivia: I'm happy to, uh, dig in, dig away, uh, whichever way you wanna go about it.

I just feel like there's a lot of symbols. I get overwhelmed when there's that many things to piece together. That's all I'm saying. I'm not resistant to knowing what this dream is about.

[00:42:12] Victor: Okay. I'm

[00:42:13] Olivia: just resistant to approaching it like this. I think

[00:42:15] Victor: I'm just gonna jump to the stuff I'm most interested in.

[00:42:18] Zach: and then we can, and then we can try just all if you. If that's what's in your heart.

[00:42:23] Victor: yeah. The two things I'm most in interested in, or I, what I want to know about is like the repeating the like, um, starting the dream over again. Um, and then also the fear, um, of the followers at the end. So we're just gonna jump to that stuff to dream of repeating something may represent feelings about something annoying in your waking life.

Problems are turning that can't be ignored. Feeling stuck in a routine behavior or habits in other people that bother you, feeling that something else, never. Or someone else never learns. Repeated mistakes, to dream that a feeling that you need to intentionally repeat something. Uh, okay. The sentence is intentionally repeat something of feelings about having problems getting something right. So just butchered sentence feeling that you or someone else is slower than other people. This is a bad entry.

[00:43:19] Zach: Yeah. It's hard to figure out what they even meant.

[00:43:22] Victor: To dream that you're dreaming represents a realization that something in your life wasn't as serious as you thought it was.

[00:43:29] Olivia: Mm. It was to dream that I was dreaming like the second, the whole second half of it was like I was telling a dream and it was happening around us.

[00:43:40] Victor: And was it positive or negative?

[00:43:42] Olivia: I was having a fun time.

[00:43:45] Victor: Positively, this reflects worries that are overblown. You may have been afraid or concerned about something in a life situation, proved that you're overreacting. Okay. So, yeah, I don't know. I didn't get as much out of that as I was hoping I would. Um, we could look at the fear entry, or we can just take a crack at, uh, gestalt method.

[00:44:05] Olivia: Zach, what? What was your dream?

[00:44:09] Zach: You wanna drop it all together,

[00:44:11] Victor: I'm your, your reluctance makes me super curious what it all actually means.

[00:44:18] Olivia: okay. Uh, yeah, we can,

[00:44:20] Victor: a

[00:44:22] Olivia: it,

[00:44:23] Victor: Okay.

[00:44:23] Olivia: I feel like the cult leader had, I feel like she had the most energy and it was like, she was like the end, it was like you've reached like the final thing.

[00:44:37] Zach: And you, you saw her, right? It wasn't just an idea.

[00:44:40] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:44:41] Zach: What did she look like again?

[00:44:42] Olivia: Um. She had like brown long-ish hair. It was kind of tall. Pretty.

[00:44:50] Zach: So

[00:44:53] Victor: She have like mommy energy or what, what was this?

[00:44:58] Olivia: Um, no.

[00:45:01] Victor: Okay. Then what was her

[00:45:02] Olivia: mommy 


[00:45:04] Victor: I mean, I don't know.

[00:45:06] Olivia: She was 

[00:45:06] Zach: that could be interpreted a few ways.

[00:45:08] Olivia: yeah, she was a host. She was the host. She was, she, we were there in her house. She was welcoming. She was, um, sharing her.

[00:45:19] Zach: She had a benevolent feel.

[00:45:21] Olivia: Yeah, she, she felt warm. She felt like powerful. Uh, and like the authority in the

[00:45:29] Zach: I guess we, we would, uh, find out more about this by alting her.

[00:45:34] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:45:35] Victor: All right.

[00:45:36] Olivia: Stalter barely know her. Zach,

[00:45:40] Victor: do you wanna read the questions

[00:45:41] Zach: I don't have the questions.

[00:45:44] Victor: here ? Let me, uh,


[00:45:47] Zach: I have never led this, so I don't,

[00:45:50] Victor: You don't have to

[00:45:50] Zach: not as practiced as he. Yeah, I might as well mix it up.

[00:45:54] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:45:54] Zach: All right. Let me know when you're in the mind space of the cult leader.

[00:45:58] Olivia: Okay,

[00:45:59] Zach: Should I call her the cult eater

[00:46:00] Olivia: Um, let's call her by her name "Earlia"

[00:46:05] Zach: ear? That's right. Earlier. That's kind of a pretty name. You know, it's like

[00:46:10] Olivia: I thought so too. I like Googled it afterwards cuz I was like, that sounds like I didn't make it up.

[00:46:15] Zach: the female version of Earl, but like

[00:46:17] Olivia: Yeah,

[00:46:18] Zach: prettier than Earl

[00:46:20] Olivia: yeah. But uh, it's not a name, so,


[00:46:25] Zach: it will be after this gets out into the world.

[00:46:27] Olivia: Yeah. 

Okay. One second. yes.

[00:46:30] Zach: All right. As earlier, my purpose is,

[00:46:35] Olivia: To lead them home

[00:46:38] Zach: my goal is,

[00:46:41] Olivia: to show them the truth and that the truth is beautiful,

[00:46:51] Zach: My biggest fear is

[00:46:55] Victor: Um,

[00:46:57] Olivia: losing them.

[00:46:57] Zach: I love,

[00:47:00] Olivia: Showing them the light.

[00:47:02] Zach: I hate.

[00:47:04] Olivia: I am not feeling anything,

[00:47:10] Zach: Okay. And finally, as earlier I desire,

[00:47:16] Olivia: uh, to make a better place.

[00:47:21] Zach: do you want to hear those again or do you want to go through it again?

[00:47:25] Olivia: Um, no, I think that felt

[00:47:29] Zach: That all sound right. You didn't feel like a shift halfway through like we do sometimes.

[00:47:33] Olivia: No, I think I got there.

[00:47:35] Zach: Pretty. Okay. Getting practiced.

[00:47:37] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:47:38] Zach: So as earlier, my purpose is to lead them home. My goal is to show them the truth and the truth is beautiful. My biggest fear is losing them. I love showing them the light. I don't feel any hate. I desire to make a better place.

[00:47:57] Olivia: Yeah, that all feels really positive.

[00:48:00] Zach: It does actually. Yeah. I don't know. Like how do you, how do you, how do you place that in the. The original context of the idea of a cult leader. Well, I'll let you answer that before I say anything.

[00:48:11] Olivia: Um,

[00:48:12] Zach: Or your,

[00:48:13] Olivia: it

[00:48:14] Zach: or your original conception of her,

[00:48:16] Olivia: right in my dream,

[00:48:18] Victor: in

[00:48:18] Olivia: my first run through of the dream, at the end, I was like getting into this twin sized bed and thinking this seems like a cult. But I never felt like, Bad cult vibes. Like the trolley cult was an evil 

cult. That was a bad

[00:48:37] Zach: trying to eat Victor.

[00:48:38] Olivia: Yeah. This cult felt like, I see why you said mommy vibes. No. The way, the way it was like, yeah, it felt like we were all being tucked in for a lullaby at the end. Um, but like, yeah, I, I don't know. I remember thinking that, but I never felt, um, bad about it. And then the second run through the dream, I was so excited to get all of these people in that wobbly room.

[00:49:07] Victor: room. Did you ever go in the wobbly room or did you skip the wobble room?

[00:49:12] Olivia: I was there in the wobbly room. Yeah.

[00:49:14] Victor: The second time around.

[00:49:15] Olivia: Yeah. And the like, I should reiterate, the wobbliness was like, it's the best part of the whole thing. I was so excited about that specifically because it felt good

[00:49:27] Victor: but the second time through, no one else was really into it.

[00:49:30] Olivia: they were like,

[00:49:31] Victor: they

[00:49:31] Olivia: were relieved. They seemed relieved to not be in the haunted house portion of it.

[00:49:38] Zach: Um, I, so this brings up a question for me about the, the whole masturbation thing. Uh, of course I'm fixated on that, but cuz as, as, as we've talked about before with I guess both sex and masturbation, like it's rarely actually about those things. You know, if you're having sex with somebody, it doesn't necessarily mean anything about attraction or sexuality. It's, it's, it has to do with like your feelings about that person and masturbation has to do, it could be a litany of things.

Um, and I feel like originally, like when you first started telling this, like may, like that added to the culty vibe, the idea of this like weird circle jerk. But, but given that this like overwhelmingly positive gestalt about this, like, do you think that masturbation is seen as less to do with literal masturbation?

And more to do with like, I don't know, like, uh, something symbolic like, like group catharsis or group, uh,

[00:50:40] Olivia: Yeah. 

[00:50:40] Zach: enjoyment or, or

[00:50:43] Olivia: That feels, um, that feels true. It feels like that was more about like, that we were all, um, experiencing something, um, good together.

[00:50:55] Zach: individual, but, but that could,

[00:50:58] Olivia: Yeah, like we were all individually experiencing like in the same way that like she passed out vacuums to each of us. Like we all had these little vacuums and we're like trying to experience like how joyful this like mundane, like chore of an activity could be in the wobbly room. Um, like we were all individually experiencing that, but like we were all together.

Um, coming to the same realization about it, 

[00:51:30] Victor: so do you feel like that changes your perspective on the dream at all? Um, that this, this person leading this situation had nothing but good intentions, positive energy.

[00:51:43] Olivia: It did feel like she was trying to lead us through dark

[00:51:49] Victor: and

[00:51:49] Olivia: scary things I mean, like, sh that's literally what it was. But like, um, she set up the haunted house, like she set, it was her house.

The, the mansion was like her situation that she like set up to be scary. And then at the end was like this, like beautiful thing,

[00:52:08] Victor: So do you think there was any relationship between the boat situation and what was going on in the house?


[00:52:15] Olivia: beep.

[00:52:23] Zach: are you doing it now? Because I have to pee. I was gonna take advantage of this off air. Time to go pee.

[00:52:26] Victor: Mm, mm-hmm.

[00:52:27] Olivia: Okay, go 


 Okay. And we're back and we figured out that this dream is about something that we are not talking about yet. Uh, so with that, um, to be continued. Yeah. 

[00:52:45] Zach: This will pay off

[00:52:46] Olivia: yeah.

[00:52:47] Zach: those dreams, symbols. They were, they were going somewhere.

[00:52:50] Olivia: Yeah. 

[00:52:51] Zach: It actually for as, as confusing, or not confusing, but as, uh, elaborate as the dream was. Not to like tease it too hard, but like, I feel like it does come together to a pretty cohesive idea.

[00:53:03] Olivia: I feel like I, I have a hard time with these like symbol heavy dreams.

[00:53:10] Zach: and that's how you dream, that's like every dream you bring to us.

[00:53:13] Olivia: I know. Yeah, no, like Victor was just saying that like, I, I, um, like I seem resistant and I don't mean to be resistant. And it, I think that a big part of that is like, I feel overwhelmed with, um,

[00:53:29] Victor: um,

[00:53:30] Olivia: the Frankenstein kind of method when it's that symbol heavy sometimes.

Um, the, just the gestalt felt, felt better to me and that I think is where we actually got

[00:53:41] Zach: Yeah.

[00:53:42] Olivia: a lot of that to make sense.

[00:53:44] Zach: That's where I started to put the dream together in my head. and yeah. Yeah. Maybe, we'll, we'll, we'll come back to this and, uh, reference it when we're, when you're ready to talk about it.

[00:53:56] Victor: yeah.

Yeah. I feel, I, I share your frustration with having a ton of different symbols to try and sort through with the dream Bible.

I, I feel like where it's worked for me is like, they'll be like, you'll run through a couple of 'em and it's like, oh, nothing's clicking, and then one will click, and then when one clicks, then it, that can be kind of a 

key mm-hmm. 

That you can use to

[00:54:19] Zach: tie the others. Yeah.

[00:54:20] Victor: relationships. 



[00:54:22] Olivia: And the gestalt is kind of like a fast track to, to getting like a key to get, getting something to click.

[00:54:29] Zach: Yeah. Do you feel like, um, as resistant as you were to it, that doing some of those Dream Bible entries helped inform the gestalt? Or do you think we could have done done the gestalt right out of the gate?

[00:54:41] Olivia: I think we could have just done. Yeah, I don't know. I think that we could have just done gestalt. I actually still don't know anything about the first half of that dream. All of the water stuff. I'm like, I haven't pieced any of that together. Um,

[00:54:55] Victor: I feel like, I mean, what I was really interested in in this dream is like the, um, the, the repeating, right?

The like going back through the motion, trying to recreate the dream you just had and like shepherding other people through it. I find that really 

interesting. Um, 

[00:55:13] Zach: hard to. Like as a ostensibly a dream interpretation podcast. I mean, we also talk about like dream concepts and dream mechanics, but it's harder to talk about those things cuz like interpretation. There's a, some sort of foundation that we can start from, you know, whether it's

[00:55:31] Olivia: Hmm. 

[00:55:31] Zach: the Bible or Bob Haas.

but with like talking about mechanics, like, I, I don't know. I don't know what uh, like what does it mean when you are telling somebody else about the dream you just had while you're still dreaming? What, like, what is that?

[00:55:45] Victor: Yeah.

[00:55:45] Zach: Is that psychology or is it neuroscience?

[00:55:48] Olivia: Victor, like you touched on something that, I think it was actually the fact that I was shepherding other people through the dream. Like that was what was, that feels like the most important part

[00:56:01] Zach: Rather

[00:56:02] Olivia: rather than just the repetition of it. But it was like I needed to share it. I needed others to 

[00:56:06] Zach: that, that does seem significant to the conclusion that we can't talk about yet

[00:56:11] Olivia: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:56:14] Victor: But we can talk about not talking about it.

[00:56:16] Zach: and just

[00:56:17] Victor: can talk about that all 

[00:56:18] Zach: drive people crazy. Um, if, I mean, hopefully, hopefully they care enough to be annoyed right now. but it'll pay off. It'll pay off eventually stick around.

[00:56:29] Olivia: you care enough to be annoyed, stay tuned.

[00:56:32] Victor: 

I do feel like, um, you get a different kind of interpretation from the, uh, geal method than you do from the Dream Bible stuff. It is felt different when we've done that.

[00:56:44] Zach: I feel like it's more soulful. It's more

[00:56:46] Victor: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:56:47] Zach: whi which,

[00:56:48] Victor: It feels like an emotional place usually.

[00:56:51] Zach: is more parallel to what it's like to dream.

whereas like the symbol, the symbology is highly interesting, but it can be a little, uh, uh, scientific's not the right word, overly uh, objective.

[00:57:08] Victor: sure. Although I do, I feel like the kinds of interpretations you get out of that, uh, almost because they're more analytical. And I, I'm an analytical guy, so maybe that's why it appeals to me. But, um, it seems like what we get out of that a lot of the time is like life patterns, like patterns of behavior that you're, may be aware of, like negative, like, um, negative, uh, uh, cycles that you're trapped at, you know, like more, um, Thought flaws or like unhealthy thought structures, you know? Well, um, the, the Bob Haas method is more about like becoming more in tuned with an emotional part of yourself that you're maybe neglecting. That's, that's probably at the core of why you were in that unhealthy pattern. So it's like, one is like, well, what am I doing?

And then the Bob Haas side is, why am I doing it? Yeah.

[00:58:09] Olivia: And that's how, what like,

gestalt methods of like engaging with yourself are used in, in therapy. Right? Like they, and that's what it's for is like accessing the thing underneath your logic brain that is intellectualizing your feelings and, and your behaviors and, and accessing like, Like the wounded child or who, whatever it is like underneath inside you, that is the reason for why you repeat these things in your life.

So it makes sense that it works with dreams too.

[00:58:48] Victor: It's very cool. It just, I mean, so, so far we've got two tools, right? In our multi, multi-year long journey of, uh, doing this podcast.

But each one gets it like a different profound layer of meaning, and it's like how much more is in there that we just haven't figured out how to tackle 


[00:59:08] Zach: brand new to carpentry and we're just blown away by the fact that we have a hammer and a screwdriver.

[00:59:14] Victor: Right, right.

[00:59:16] Zach: So I mean, yeah, that's. An exciting feeling, but

[00:59:20] Victor: We can, yeah.

[00:59:21] Olivia: If anyone, any listeners out there have any dream interpretation methods that you have found to be useful that we haven't figured out yet? We are all ears and would like to have more tools in our tool

[00:59:37] Zach: I've been meaning to try Steve's, uh, incubation thing. That's not an interpretation thing, but it's like a, a dream

[00:59:45] Olivia: Yeah, I gave it a go.

[00:59:47] Zach: Yeah. I, I, I've done things, um, like practice intentional lucid dreaming in the past.

I know you, Victor, you've done that too. Um, Olivia, you don't seem to have to intend to do it. It just happens to you.

Um, but the incubation thing was new to me, and, and that's, that's something I want to try. But, uh, and by, and by the way, I'm referring to for the listeners, Steve, uh, the guest on our last podcast or on our last episode. Go check that out. Fascinating dude.

[01:00:19] Olivia: Yeah. I also like the idea that you could like incubate a dream to give you further insight on a dream that you haven't cracked yet.

[01:00:29] Zach: Yeah. Cause I, I, I think I've talked about this before. When I was practicing lucid dreaming, I would, in order to fall asleep, like instead of counting sheep or whatever, I would picture like every detail of a place. Like, like just go around every square foot of the place and, and then picture the detail of it in hopes that I would start the dream there and that that would make me lucid.

And it worked a handful of times. So it seems like a similar idea, but instead of like being physical and, and manipulative of like the, the dream scape, it's, it's more about planting a seed for what you want to get out of the dream,

[01:01:10] Victor: Something I was thinking about when we were talking to Steve was be because he's been doing it for so long and um, comes at it from kind of a different angle than us. It, it, it did kind of feel like, it opened my eyes to how, like how much ground we haven't covered. Cuz I feel like the process of our podcast has gone pretty much from asking the question.

Is your subconscious trying to tell you something to Yes. It's trying to tell you something. What is it trying to tell you? Right. And that's, that's been our journey so far. Steve is on a path where he's trying to have like a two-way street. There's like a back and forth communication with his own subconscious.

Mm-hmm. Instead of just like passively waiting for like, messages to be delivered from on high. It's like, like having questions for your subconscious, having like specific stuff you wanna work on and like getting that thrown back at you and then 

[01:02:10] Zach: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:11] Victor: working with it, assuming that it's in response to the thing that you sent it, you know?

[01:02:15] Olivia: Yeah. Like active dreamwork, using your dreams as a tool for self-reflection and, and facilitating it, you know?

Yeah. That is, Interesting. We should be more like Steve.

[01:02:29] Victor: and then that's again, like some of the stuff that they talk about on, um, The dreams that shape us. It's like that opens up a can of worms, of, uh, like, well, are you just talking to your subconscious?

Or is there like some greater connection to like greater purpose and meaning and like, is there like a spiritual component to all of this? Are you getting information from a place that's like,

[01:02:58] Olivia: not,

[01:02:59] Victor: not within yourself, you know, that's fucking crazy. You know, it's like, it's like so far we we're operating in two dimensions and there's like 3, 4, 5 dimensions of this space that we're in, you know? So That's cool. It's exciting,

[01:03:17] Zach: We'll get there. We just need, uh, to be doing this podcast for 15 more years or

[01:03:24] Victor: right? 

[01:03:25] Zach: till we're in on Steve's level.

 Thank you for listening to The Jung and the Restless. You can follow us on social media at the Jung and the Restless Pod and submit your dreams for interpretation to the Jung and the Restless Pod at Gmail. And as we always say, Is this Mercury in Fox Grade?

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