25. A Piece of the Victor Puzzle

Olivia has some questions about Cheese People. Victor has a dream inspired by The Evil Dead that seems to be…...

Olivia has some questions about Cheese People. Victor has a dream inspired by The Evil Dead that seems to be a continuation of his most recurring dream theme. The Dream Team chats about career goals, and how parenthood is the next puberty.

0:00 Intro

5:53 Victor's Dream

45:52 Chit Chat

About Dream Bible:

Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams.  Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.


Dream Bible entries used in this episode:

Mall: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=mall

Laptop: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Laptop

Siblings: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=siblings

Department Store: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Department+Store

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejungandtherestlesspod/

Check out our website for episode transcripts: https://thejungandtherestlesspodcast.com/

Submit your dreams for interpretation to thejungandtherestlesspod@gmail.com

Episode Transcript

episode 25

Zach: Welcome to the Jung and the Restless. I'm Zach.

Olivia: I'm Olivia.

Victor: And I'm Victor. And this is the podcast that invited you to The Prom as a joke. And then everyone laughed. 

[00:00:39] Victor: There's an ad on Dream Bible right now that's just 2023 coupon codes now available. Not for anything, just generic coupons, 

[00:00:50] Olivia: The coupons only work in your dreams?

[00:00:53] Victor: But the viruses you get are for real.

[00:00:56] Olivia: and they're free.


[00:00:57] Victor: they're not free, but they're at a discount.

[00:00:59] Olivia: I have a question for Zach.

[00:01:01] Zach: What's that?

[00:01:02] Olivia: it's about cheese


[00:01:04] Zach: Cheese people.

[00:01:05] Olivia: Yeah, like you, like,

um, what are they called? Cheese mongers. Are they called cheese mongers or is that just for fish?

[00:01:12] Zach: No, that's, yeah, that's someone who sells cheese.

[00:01:15] Olivia: Okay. Cheese. I have a question about cheese mongers. When you're interviewing to be a cheese monger, are they like testing out your joke vibes?

Do they, do they need you to be really funny because like the other day I was at the store and I was picking up, um, like one of my favorite breeze and this woman just goes, careful, ma'am, that's a dangerous cheese. And, and it was like, I know you've said this to like lots of people probably, but she was right.

She knew exactly what cheese I was talking about. And it is a dangerous cheese. 

[00:01:50] Zach: Hey, what did, what was the punchline?

[00:01:53] Victor: it

[00:01:53] Olivia: Oh, well the cheese is very good and you will come back and you'll buy more. And I do routinely.

[00:01:59] Zach: I thought you were asking because cheese people do seem to be like weirdly, um, like punny,

[00:02:06] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:02:07] Zach: like they, they got a lot of jokes, so that's why I was expecting, I thought that there was gonna be some sort of, um, play on the word bri that has to do with danger.

 I had so many cheese jokes when I was slanging it when I was slanging cheddar. there's, there's this Spanish cheese called Gar Rocha that's spelled, uh, with two X's in the middle. And whenever somebody would try to pronounce it, I would tell how it was pronounced and then I'd be like, yeah, I know.

It's, it's hard. It's got. It's got a couple of crazy exes, but hey, who doesn't? All right.

[00:02:41] Victor: Hey, yo.

[00:02:42] Zach: Hey. Yeah.

[00:02:43] Olivia: Yeah. I, I feel like of all of the grocery store departments, the cheese people have like a real vibe going on everywhere. Anywhere I go, anywhere that there's like a fancy cheese section, 

[00:02:56] Zach: delightful weirdos.

[00:02:57] Victor: cheese monger sounds like kind of an insulting title.

[00:03:01] Olivia: sounds

[00:03:01] Victor: like a, like you're like a grubby little guy that's like hoarding cheese, like a dragon hoards treasure,

[00:03:06] Zach: Yeah. Sounds like a roundabout way of calling someone a, a rat

[00:03:10] Victor: right?

[00:03:11] Zach: a a rodent of some kind. Yeah, I hear you. Cheese monger.

[00:03:14] Victor: Has anyone seen the cheese retch around here?

[00:03:17] Olivia: cheese mongrel.

[00:03:19] Zach: The cheese mongrel. remember there's a, it is pretty popular. Have you ever had this cheese called drunken goat?

[00:03:25] Olivia: I love drunken

[00:03:26] Zach: Yeah. They, they also make one without the, without the wine on the Rin called naked goat. And I would always tell people careful, if you eat too much of one, it leaves to the other. They're not good jokes.

[00:03:42] Victor: They don't need to be,

[00:03:43] Zach: they're cheesy, if you will.

[00:03:46] Victor: people aren't 

[00:03:47] Olivia: me 

[00:03:48] Victor: any of that in the middle of a Whole Foods, so that's like working to your advantage. You don't need to be coming in real hot and just like if you light cheese punts.

[00:03:57] Zach: Yeah, that's true. 

[00:03:58] Olivia: Also just some of the most knowledgeable ,people in their fields. 

[00:04:02] Zach: I'm not sure how much I could remember, but before I stopped eating it entirely, I,

I had quite a bit of encyclopedic knowledge.

[00:04:11] Victor: but like you could have turned like vegan cheese monger powers towards like just having an encyclopedic knowledge of. Like the horrible conditions and exploitative practices that go into the production of every cheese.

[00:04:26] Zach: Yeah, I'm not that guy.

That's, I figure once I stop eating it, then I don't have to know anything about it. Cause I'm already not doing it. I don't need to, I don't need to be convinced. I don't need to watch the, the PITA videos,

[00:04:39] Olivia: Here's an idea. Vegan cheese monger, a monger for vegan cheeses.

[00:04:46] Zach: all four of 'em out there.

[00:04:48] Olivia: That's what I'm saying though. You gotta make like gourmet vegan cheeses cuz like, yeah, there's not enough options and they could be better.

[00:04:55] Victor: better.

[00:04:56] Zach: there's one. Apparently, I've never tried it. There's an LA based, company making like, you know, more complex vegan cheeses. Uh, they only sell it in this store called Awan that, I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but it's like, it's an LA grocery store chain that's like just for rich people.

It's like $20 smoothies and

[00:05:18] Olivia: It's like worse than Whole Foods,

[00:05:20] Zach: Oh, by, by a lot. Since Whole Foods got bought by Amazon, their prices went way down. They're like virtually a normal grocery store now.

[00:05:28] Olivia: so worse than Metropolitan Market.

[00:05:31] Zach: I never went in a metro market.

[00:05:33] Olivia: I fucking love Metropolitan Market.

[00:05:35] Victor: It's a good spot,

[00:05:36] Zach: Yeah, no. If you walked into an Aand, you'd, you would immediately turn around and walk out as soon as you saw the price of anything.

[00:05:42] Victor: there

[00:05:43] Olivia: like $20 smoothies at med market

[00:05:45] Zach: Yeah. But everything at Ewan is like, You're just paying. It's like a like designer groceries. You know? You're just paying for the Aand label on your brown 


[00:05:53] Zach: paper bag. So people walk into your home, see the bags you're using as a recycling bin, and they're like, oh, someone's doing well. It's excessively la.

[00:06:03] Olivia: Victor, you were laughing in your sleep this morning.

[00:06:24] Victor: Was I really? Or is this a bit

[00:06:26] Olivia: No, you really were.

[00:06:29] Victor: 

That's interesting.

[00:06:31] Zach: Should have filmed it.

[00:06:32] Olivia: I was

too sleepy 

[00:06:33] Victor: do that.

[00:06:34] Zach: You don't remember what was, what was so funny.

[00:06:37] Victor: No. Do you remember what was so funny?

[00:06:39] Olivia: I was watching from the outside.

[00:06:41] Victor: Well, you remember more than I do.

[00:06:43] Olivia: You're just giggling. You're just a giggly guy.

[00:06:46] Victor: Having a time. Yeah. 

[00:06:48] Olivia: Uh, 

[00:06:49] Victor: I had a dream a couple nights ago that I've kind of like forgotten pretty well, but, uh, I read it down, so, um, yeah, I can, we can, we can dig into it. And it's kind of a fun one.

It's like a zombie ish one. Uh, we were watching, um, uh, some of the Evil dead movies recently, like the old ones, cuz I'm getting hyped for the new one. And, uh, I'd never seen Army of Darkness and so Olivia fell asleep pretty quickly and I powered through a Skip movie. Um, but so the, the, um, Mony stuff in my dream is very like ripped from evil dead, like dead eye stuff that I was dealing with, but, um,

[00:07:32] Zach: Okay. Yeah, well, on our last recording we talked about the Evil Dead franchise at length, but I think, I think I cut it out of the episode 

[00:07:41] Olivia: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:42] Zach: cuz the episode was already over an hour, so we didn't, we didn't need, uh, movie Corner.

[00:07:49] Olivia: Right.

[00:07:50] Zach: Um, but now it's per,

[00:07:51] Olivia: I like that. We've been doing that


[00:07:53] Zach: now it's pertinent. It's pertinent it's dream information now,

[00:07:56] Victor: right?

[00:07:57] Zach: but, but,

 I fucking love the Evil Dead series, like everything that they've done.

Evil Dead. Um,

[00:08:05] Victor: really liked the show. I'm hyped for the movie that just came out and yeah, but I hadn't watched all of the old stuff. I'd just seen like the first one. Um, so I just, we watched Evil Dead too, and like, I, I was like surprised by how like Looney 

[00:08:22] Zach: Yeah, it's so much fun.

[00:08:24] Victor: yeah, it's fun. But it was like very caught off guard.

I was like, this is fully a cartoon.

[00:08:29] Zach: cuz the first, the first one has some, some camp, you know. But

[00:08:33] Victor: yeah.

[00:08:35] Zach: I feel like the camp comes from the fact that they knew what their budget was, but other than that they were genuine. Genuinely trying to make something scary and succeeded. the, it is, it is pretty, pretty scary. Especially for the time when no one had seen that like, um, point of view, like moving through the bushes shot before, 

[00:08:56] Victor: Yeah, 

[00:08:57] Zach: pretty ground break breaking.


[00:08:58] Victor: it's cool. I, I remember really like, it's like, um, there's subtitles going through at the beginning that are not what's happening on screen. They're like kind of disconnected from, from what you're seeing, but it's like telling the backstory as you're watching the movie. It's kind of a cool experimental thing.

I haven't seen anyone else do.

[00:09:18] Zach: Yeah. And so this influenced your dream, you think?

[00:09:21] Victor: Uh, definitely cuz like there's, there's like a monster encounter at the end that's just like fully a dead eye. Um, but, okay, so here's what I wrote down. Had a dream. I was with some friends in a minivan at the mall. There was a brother sister pair. I go in with a sister to steal a laptop. We end up at opposite ends of the store.

And I didn't write this down. Oh, you're, you're lighting up at laptop.

[00:09:49] Olivia: Yeah,

[00:09:50] Victor: Yeah.

[00:09:51] Zach: Yeah, the,

[00:09:52] Olivia: We, 

[00:09:52] Zach: just, just cuz it 

[00:09:53] Victor: talk about it


[00:09:54] Zach: It was, I had a laptop in my last, in the last episode in my 


[00:09:57] Olivia: Yeah. Right. And in my Dr my laptop dream, it was about a stolen laptop in a mall.

[00:10:03] Zach: Oh yeah.

[00:10:04] Olivia: Oh, Oh, it wasn't a mall? No, it wasn't a mall, but it was kind of like a mall. There were escalators,

[00:10:08] Victor: right. Yeah. Yours was like at an airport, 


[00:10:10] Olivia: It was like an airport school

[00:10:13] Zach: An airport school.

[00:10:14] Olivia: Anyway, anyway, continue.

Yeah. You were trying to steal the

[00:10:18] Victor: So I'm at, uh, like it's at the mall. This feels like it was like a big target. Um, and yeah, we were there to steal a laptop. Um, 


uh, we end up at opposite ends of the store and I lose sight of her. And we're each waiting in the long lines. And what I remember is just like, Big open target space, target looking space, and then just like very long lines all over the place, just like way more than you would actually ever see in reality.

Um, and so, uh, after the line, 


this part is a little, this is a little vague. I can't remember exactly what happens here, but somehow I end up with the laptop. What I wrote is after the line, someone, I don't know, brings me a laptop for her, for the sister. So I assume like everything's good, like mission accomplished.

Like she somehow had someone bring this thing to me and so she must be fine. Um, and so I go back to the van where the two friends are waiting and we wait a long time and I'm worried something happened to the sister, uh, because I like failed to stay near her. Um, oh, and then at some point in the dream, I like found her cell phone and then was like, oh, that's bad.

And then I just like hung onto it and I didn't say anything about it for a while. And then we kept waiting and then I was like, oh, that's probably relevant. I should say something about that to somebody. Um, so at some point I find her cell phone and forget to say anything after long wait and her brother considering leaving without her, I say, I think she may be in trouble shortly after evil, dead style zombies attack the mall.

We make it out, but are still looking for the sister. Um, and then eventually we find her, and I remember like going into it kind of looked like, um, like a morgue kind of, you know, um, like with the drawers you pull out of the wall and everything. Um, but, and like kind of dark, like weird lighting and everything.

But I remember us going in there and, um,

[00:12:30] Olivia: um,

[00:12:31] Victor: We find her, she's a possessed dead eye. And then this does not make sense, but this is what this was. She was like, 


shaped like a living bag with teeth. It was like a little bag monster.

[00:12:47] Olivia: Like a paper bag.

[00:12:48] Victor: Like, Like, a like a like a leather bag.

[00:12:52] Olivia: Like a purse?


It was a purse


[00:12:56] Zach: It was a Gucci

[00:12:56] Victor: Yeah, it was like a purse with teeth. Um,

[00:13:01] Olivia: and

[00:13:01] Victor: remember I like rolled up a backpack and was like jamming it into her monster mouth to like try and keep her, uh, like stopped. Um,

[00:13:14] Zach: it had a gender. It was definitely.

[00:13:17] Victor: it was definitely her, I don't know that the bag had a gender, but this was de definitely this person that had gone missing, that we found that was like

possessed by this demonn. 

[00:13:26] Zach: I got you.

[00:13:27] Olivia: And when sh when she was a bag, was it kind of like a disjunctive cognition thing where like you weren't even thinking about the fact that she was a bag. You were just like, oh yeah. There she is. Our friend.

[00:13:39] Victor: Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was like, it was, it was her. She had undertaken like a monster transformation as you would in an evil dead movie,

[00:13:49] Olivia: movie.


[00:13:50] Victor: but,


[00:13:51] Zach: witness it 

[00:13:52] Victor: no, I didn't

[00:13:53] Zach: because that would be, that would be a cool scene to see in a movie, like a, um, werewolf in London style, kinda like transformation, but it's into like a purse.

[00:14:02] Olivia: Okay. But, so there was a transformation that you were cognizant of and that was her transforming into a dead, like a zombie kind of dead eye

thing. Yeah.

The purse thing was like a separate level of symbolism on top of that that, that you weren't thinking about. Yeah. I

[00:14:18] Victor: I think I realized after waking up that like what I was seeing with like a purse monster, okay.

Wasn't, didn't make sense with the setup to how we got there.

[00:14:29] Olivia: there.

[00:14:30] Victor: Um, and I don't even know if she was a purse monster the whole time or if she only became a purse monster later in, but I remember, I remember a thing that was mostly a mouth with sharp teeth that was trying to bite people and me trying to like shove, like impromptu like stuff into this thing's mouth to disable it, to like basically like stop it from doing stuff while her brother was working on trying to like, exercise the demonn.

Um, and that, that's where it ended is that her brother was working on the Demonn thing. And like I said, I remember like rolling up a backpack and stuffing into this thing's mouth. And then I, uh, I woke up shortly thereafter.

[00:15:19] Olivia: Hmm.

[00:15:19] Zach: I do find it.

[00:15:20] Olivia: That's interesting.

[00:15:21] Zach: Yeah. Uh, it's interesting, the, um, so I feel like a thing with dreams that we've all grown up with is that notion of, um, like if you dream about something that you have seen recently or that is clearly influenced by something you've seen like in movies or tv, that it's meaningless. Like people tend to write those dreams off that guy you just, you watched a horror movie right before bed, so you got a nightmare.

but it feels to me like it still like means something. Like it has to mean something. Like, it's not just your brain being like, that was fun. Let's do it again. Right?

[00:15:55] Olivia: I think like doing this podcast has kind of dispelled that myth for me. Like I don't, I don't think any of it is meaningless. Like I think that things leak in

[00:16:05] Zach: Yeah.

[00:16:06] Olivia: from your waking life, but it only in a way that they are symbolically relevant and like that they stuck with you and have some kind of meaning for you in that dream.

They're not just like random

[00:16:18] Zach: So you feel like whatever this dream means, like is dressed in, in evil dead attire. Because, because it was just brain was like, yeah, that, that's good. That works for this metaphor.

[00:16:32] Olivia: Yes. That's what I think. I think it's like inspiration to like further deliver symbolic messages. Um,

[00:16:40] Zach: that. 

[00:16:40] Victor: that feels right to me. Yeah.

[00:16:42] Zach: Side note, the first horror movie I ever saw, uh, when I was a real little kid was Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

[00:16:50] Olivia: Oh

[00:16:50] Zach: And I was super worried cause I had whole, I had heard my whole life that like, horror movies will give you nightmares. and, uh, I had also heard spicy food will give you nightmares.

And I, I had a, a big bowl of something spicy, right. Right before bed and washed it down with some ice cream. I was just convinced I was gonna have the worst nightmare of my life. And I, I still, I remember it vividly, the dream I had the night I watched Texas Chainsaw Massacre was about a, like, horse size bunny sitting placidly in a pasture, just being really cute.

And I went up to it and pet it. And it didn't, it didn't like,

[00:17:28] Olivia: that's

the contrarian in

[00:17:30] Zach: it didn't jump. And like, I wasn't even scared that, cuz if, I mean, if a horse size bunny jumped, it could, it could definitely murder you. But that wasn't even, it was just a, a ridiculously cute dream.

[00:17:41] Olivia: That's funny. I, I find this dream interesting for a couple of reasons. One, the dreams that you have had and brought to the pod are usually like concise and like, um, really simple. And I feel like this one is a little more complex and like, uh, leaning toward the like epic dream side of things. Like it's a little more reminiscent of some of the like, long form dreams I've had where like things are shifting and changing.

And um, and the other thing that I think is interesting is that it features a pair of siblings. Which I don't know what that means, but I just remember recently we had talked about how like, um, you're an only child and that like you have no context for what like a sibling relationship might

[00:18:29] Victor: mm-hmm. 

[00:18:30] Olivia: And so I wonder if that comes into play in this dream.

[00:18:33] Victor: Hmm.

[00:18:34] Zach: Yeah, it was still very, it still felt very narrative to me though, even though it was like shifting and, 

and changing. I feel like you dream in, uh, I, I just feel like you have a, a story driven brain right there.

[00:18:47] Victor: I, I do think, um, A theme that's come up a couple of times in Dreams is like that. Like, I, you know, failed to do something or failed to take care of somebody, and then there's like repercussions, right? And so this comes up here where like, I feel like a responsibility for this sister. Um, and because I fail in my duty to protect them first by being, like allowing myself to be separated when we were in the store and then like, finding this phone and like not acting on that immediately and like letting myself like, forget that and then bring it up later.

Or like two points where like, I failed in my duty to protect somebody and so now they're in danger and then they're in a, like a bad state at the end of the dream.

[00:19:36] Olivia: yeah. That we were also talking about this recently, that, that seems to be


most recurring pattern in your dreams. I think maybe a good symbol to, or Well, let's give you the option to, uh, if you want

to approach

[00:19:49] Zach: I I just remember this is a Victor dream, so I just pulled up Dream Bible cuz he's not supposed to do that on his own dream.

[00:19:55] Olivia: yeah.

[00:19:56] Victor: I was gonna say, you want me to move over and you 

[00:19:58] Zach: No, I got it. I got it. 

[00:19:59] Olivia: I think that like handbag is maybe a good, like, I just feel like at the very end when this like terrible thing has happened,

[00:20:08] Zach: did it feel like a handbag?

[00:20:09] Olivia: such,

[00:20:10] Victor: I like, okay. I don't know that this was literally like a monster purse. I'm just saying like, it, 

[00:20:17] Zach: You said bag originally. 

[00:20:18] Olivia: but it was a 

[00:20:19] Zach: didn't, you didn't. 

[00:20:21] Victor: Yeah. And it was a thing that was mostly a mouth and like a sack attached to a

[00:20:28] Olivia: Okay. So you were just des you're just using that

[00:20:30] Victor: the best descriptor for a thing that was mostly made of mouth.

[00:20:35] Zach: Yeah, I, 

I, I think we, I think we put the word purse in his mouth.

[00:20:39] Olivia: It's just so, um, such a vivid image. I really wanted it to be a purse monster.

[00:20:45] Victor: script.

[00:20:47] Olivia: So maybe laptops and zombies in the mall.

Do those feel like big three?

[00:20:54] Zach: pulled up siblings stealing?

[00:20:57] Victor: I was gonna say siblings.

there was like, I think the zombie thing is kind of relevant. You know, like the it, that was like later at the end of the dream, the way the girl manifested was very evil dead. But like the zombies were more like traditional zombies I think are like a more, it wasn't, it didn't feel as


[00:21:21] Zach: Okay. 


[00:21:21] Olivia: Did you say? You said it looked like Target, but was it in your dream? Was it the mall?

[00:21:26] Victor: remember like we were, I think at the mall and maybe like department store would be a good thing to search for

[00:21:34] Olivia: I've had mall dreams before, so I know I've looked that symbol up

[00:21:38] Zach: dreams are, me, they're always, they're very moody. They have like 

a. I guess I just have strong, like, aesthetic associa associations with them all. I, I feel like it do a lot of millennials cuz it was a thing that was very, had a very specific feeling when we were kids and then it just like died out completely.

[00:22:00] Victor: Yeah,

[00:22:00] Olivia: I also always end up in weird stores in the Dream Mall.

 Like a . Cross between like Spencer's and like the Hello Kitty store.

[00:22:09] Zach: feel like when I see,

[00:22:10] Olivia: like the two like most iconic mall stores.

[00:22:13] Zach: like when I see malls in my dreams, it's, it's not the stores, it's like escalators and, and uh, fountains and, and fake palm trees.

[00:22:22] Victor: Hmm.

[00:22:23] Zach: It's very, uh, it is very vapor wave. Um, so I, I have pulled up right now. Siblings stealing mall, department, store, laptop, and zombies. Where do you wanna start?

[00:22:39] Victor: Start at the beginning.

[00:22:40] Zach: Cool. To dream of siblings represents an alternative or competitive perspective.

Negatively dreaming of a sibling may reflect unpleasant feelings about yourself losing. Alternatively, it may reflect feelings or beliefs that are counterproductive to your wellbeing, such as insecurity. Second, guessing yourself or self-defeating habits, intentionally being depressed or choosing to lose positively.

A sibling may reflect confidence, hope, or someone with more experience than you, a better idea than yours. If you have more than one sibling, these, these weren't your siblings, right?

[00:23:16] Victor: No.

[00:23:17] Zach: Your brother or sister may no to dream of a brother or a sister that you don't actually have. Still not accurate, right?

[00:23:24] Victor: Yeah,

[00:23:24] Olivia: it gets into your sibling, but it starts off with just generic siblings, I think.

[00:23:29] Zach: I mean, that first sentence just says, to dream of siblings represents an alternative or competing perspective.

[00:23:36] Olivia: Did they feel like twins?

[00:23:37] Victor: not necessarily like they didn't look the same, but I'm just trying to think of something that's maybe akin to it. They were similarly aged, um, like they felt like peer siblings, so I just looked up twins. That's why she's asking that. and says to dream of fraternal twins may reflect feelings about similarities to others that are not obvious and require discussing negatively.

Fraternal twins may reflect a need to lie about perfect equality in a relationships, so nobody gets their feelings hurt. I need to openly discuss how someone else is just as good as you when you don't really believe it. Hmm, that's

[00:24:14] Zach: Yeah, it's interesting cuz this is, um, all of this is like your sibling under sibling. The idea that you just dream of to other people that aren't, that don't exist in real life, but are related to each other,

[00:24:30] Olivia: Well, what's what? What's interesting is what I, what I was saying before is that Victor, you were just telling me that you have no contact. Like I brought up something about like, oh, like siblings or like your relation, my relationship with my sibling or whatever. And your response was like, I really have no context for what that kind of relationship is like.

And so it kind of makes sense that if you were to dream of sibling siblings, you would externalize that into siblings with each other, but not with you necessarily.

[00:25:04] Victor: Hmm.

[00:25:04] Zach: Rick, because you're, you're an only child, Victor, did you? Is that what you said? And Olivia, you 

[00:25:10] Victor: now I am. No, I'm 

[00:25:12] Zach: God. Ever since I absorbed the other one in the womb.

[00:25:15] Victor: Right?

[00:25:16] Zach: Olivia, you have a brother and a sister.

[00:25:18] Olivia: Correct.

[00:25:19] Zach: Yeah. I knew that I was just saying it for the listener. yeah, it's hard to, I, I feel like it, it would be hard to, um, explain to an only child what it's like to have a sibling and vice versa.

[00:25:31] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:25:32] Victor: Yeah. It was just, yeah, I, it's something that I've thought about before that like, it's just not an experience that I've had, you


[00:25:41] Zach: Even among people with siblings. Like, I don't know what it's like to be a middle child like Olivia. I only know what it's like to be a big brother to a, to a sister, which is a different experience than having a little brother.

[00:25:52] Olivia: In this dream, did the siblings seem younger than you or the same age as you?

[00:25:58] Victor: Same age. It felt like we were all peers. There's also one other guy, but I don't really remember him, uh,

[00:26:05] Olivia: playing

[00:26:06] Victor: much of an active role. It was like me and this brother and this other guy were like hanging out in this van waiting for this guy's sister to come out and she is not showing up,

[00:26:20] Olivia: What something that I just considered is that it seems like in this dream you felt responsible for her to a certain extent, and that that is not dissimilar from how you might feel in a sibling relationship. 

[00:26:37] Victor: Yeah, it kind of felt like, um, leaving a partner in crime behind, you know, it's like we went in there to do a mission together and like I didn't take care of her. And so like, that's on me, you 

[00:26:49] Zach: Yeah, that feels a little related to this one snippet in in the sibling entry that says a little kid's Sister Mason Blis feelings of responsibility or annoyance.

[00:26:59] Olivia: Do we wanna read the part about having a laptop stolen because you guys were stealing a laptop. I, I wonder if we can like flip flop that into something that makes sense here.

[00:27:10] Victor: There's also a stealing entry,

[00:27:13] Zach: I have that pulled up.

[00:27:15] Victor: Oh, cool.

[00:27:16] Zach: To dream of losing your laptop or having your laptop stolen may reflect fears of having to start over from scratch when you believed you were getting ahead in life. Losing power, employment. Employment or resources that allow you to think about the more interesting areas of your life, feeling that you've lost your ability to get ahead in life or plan interesting things.

[00:27:36] Olivia: Is this a, Is this like the redneck Willy Waka dream? Like

[00:27:42] Victor: Because

[00:27:43] Olivia: if that's what having a laptop stolen means, then um,

[00:27:47] Victor: um,

[00:27:48] Olivia: You could assume that stealing a laptop might mean like trying to like devise a way to get ahead, um, by like making your own way. 

[00:28:02] Victor: Yeah. I, I, I think those are interesting dots to connect. I don't know that it resonates.

[00:28:07] Zach: Should we read stealing and see if we can actually, if that helps us, like flip the flop

[00:28:13] Victor: Yeah.

[00:28:14] Zach: to dream that you are stealing from someone, or sorry to dream that you are stealing from someone else. Represents your contempt, disobedience, or disrespect for someone else. Taking advantage of someone else who has not shown you respect.

Defying the rules when they have not worked in your favor. Restoring self-respect in situations where you are unrecognized or undervalued. Awareness of yourself being selfish, wanting something you can't have or feel you don't deserve. Wanting something for nothing and

[00:28:45] Olivia: Was the laptop, did it seem like you were stealing it for her, for the sister, or was she just part of the plan? Was it for everybody?

[00:28:55] Victor: I don't have a clear sense of like, who was gonna benefit from stealing the laptop. Like, I don't know if it was for me or for her or how that happened. Um,

[00:29:05] Zach: Just for the thrill of it.

[00:29:07] Victor: Um, I was taking another look at the laptop entry. Um, and I think maybe like the more broad definition might connect here to dream of a laptop computer represents awareness of a thinking style that looks better or is more sophisticated than average. A higher level of interest in how you're thinking.

Maybe more motivated or excited to explore yourself or improve yourself. So like, it might be like maybe the broad laptop symbolism is more relevant than the, uh, having your laptop stolen. I'm not sure how any of this connects so far though.

[00:29:41] Olivia: What about that part? Um, feels like it resonates. It's,

[00:29:45] Victor: it's not that it feels, it resonates. It's that, I think, I think that's more likely to be a piece of, of the puzzle than the Yeah. For 

[00:29:53] Zach: A lot of your dream Bible or a lot of your symbols in the dream Bible are from the wrong angle. You know what I mean? Like you dreamt about siblings, but they weren't your sibling. And there's not really a lot of, um, content here on that. And the same thing with stealing and robbery. There's not a lot about, A lot of this is about you being stolen from, not about you Stealing under related to stealing is robbery.

And there is a paragraph here that says to dream that you rob someone may represent situations where you are forcing people to do things that may make them unhappy or permanently lose their enthusiasm. Telling someone what to do while knowing that they don't like it outright stealing your success or taking credit that isn't yours.

Feelings about a situation being too easy or taking advantage of others.

None of that sounds like you.

Unless you're having some sort of like, you know, anxiety about something that you know,

[00:30:48] Olivia: Anxiety,

[00:30:50] Zach: you know,

[00:30:50] Victor: Yeah. He, he,

[00:30:52] Zach: you like imposter syndrome or something like you feel like, you know,

[00:30:57] Victor: Wait,

how'd you get there? What? Because, uh, I mean, that sounds like me. So let's, let's start there. How did you get to that place?

[00:31:03] Zach: cuz this paragraph is all about like to dream that you robbed someone, may represent situations where you're forcing people, robbing their enthusiasm, making people do stuff outright, stealing your success. I guess that's where I got the imposter SY syndrome outright. Stealing your success or taking credit that isn't yours. That doesn't sound like a thing. I mean, that's definitely not a thing you would do, but it sounds like the kind of thing you might worry that you've done because, because of anxiety.

[00:31:29] Victor: right,

[00:31:30] Olivia: exactly, and that's like the, that's what Victor brought up at the beginning of this, which is that he keeps having these dreams where he does something that the effects of it are that somebody else gets hurt or that, um, and so like him having an anxiety of hurting other people, like in that way makes sense.

[00:31:53] Zach: Also, in addition to imposter syndrome, there's a little bit of survivor's guilt in here. I don't know if that's a thing you, you can relate to Victor, but feelings about a situation being too easy or taking advantage of others To me that, that, the way that hits me is that that feeling of like, when things go right and you have that guilt about it, where you're like, well, why should they be going right for me?

You know?

[00:32:15] Victor: I

think that's like what I'm feeling for the sister in this dream is like that. We went in, we did this thing together and now she is like suffering some consequence and like I just kind of got in and got out and I'm, I'm having no problems, you know?

[00:32:32] Zach: Yeah.

[00:32:33] Victor: Yeah. So I'm definitely like some of my, some of my guilt there is like survivor guilt of like, we, we did this thing together, I'm fine.

She's not like feeling like I owe her something.

[00:32:45] Olivia: Can we hear the mall entry?

[00:32:47] Zach: Yeah. We have, uh, mall and department store. I'll start with mall.

[00:32:52] Olivia: hear the.

[00:32:54] Zach: Okay. Malls and zombies, by the way, classic combination.

[00:32:57] Olivia: Oh

[00:32:58] Zach: Dawn of the dead, uh, to Dream of Mall represents your search for acceptable roles, choices, beliefs, and ideas. A time in which you are establishing your identity and making choices that will affect your sense of self Being in mall symbolizes decisions or preferences that make you who you are. A mall represents social settings or social development where you are exploring options or decisions about what you want or who you will become. It reflects the manner in which you go about getting what you want in life, or choices that define who you are. 

[00:33:32] Victor: that's the first thing that's felt like it's resonated. Cuz I do feel like I'm, I'm in a place where I'm trying to figure out 

[00:33:39] Olivia: like 

[00:33:40] Victor: what to do with myself and

[00:33:42] Zach: Hmm. 

[00:33:43] Victor: where to channel my time and my energy, you know?

[00:33:48] Zach: Interesting. In this middle paragraph, a, a dream of a mall, excuse me. A dream of a mall can show up when you are deciding who you want to date, making changes to your lifestyle or experiencing changes in your personality.

[00:34:02] Victor: Yeah, I think, um, I, um, recently feel like I'm just a, like, I, like I'm a projects guy, like I was talking about like working on, on board games when we're doing the Willy Wonka thing. I'm doing this thing lately where I'm like

[00:34:20] Olivia: like

[00:34:21] Victor: hyper focusing on a project for like a couple of weeks or a month, and then I get caught up in something else and move on to the next thing that's interesting to me.

[00:34:30] Zach: do that all 

[00:34:30] Victor: And I keep bouncing around from thing to thing, like pouring myself into it. But I'm like having a hard time finishing stuff or partly because I'm having a hard time finding something that like, Feels right. You know, it's not so much that I can't continue to focus on a thing, it's that like I learn enough about it to be like, I'm not sure that this is the road I should be on right now, and then something else catches my attention.

I move on in the next thing. So it's like I'm very much in a place where I, I just wanna find the thing that I want to pour my energy into and, um, like, I got a thing I'm working on right now, but I, I don't know if that's gonna stick around, you know? And, um, I just wanna find the thing that I care about and like doing and the direction I wanna run in for a couple of years.

And I just haven't found that thing, you know?

[00:35:31] Zach: Hmm. were there any specific. Stores in the mall, or you mentioned, you 

[00:35:36] Victor: I kind 

[00:35:36] Zach: Target, that it felt like a target,

[00:35:38] Victor: yeah, I don't remember anything on the interior other than the store that we walked into. So it's kind of like, you know, like you're in a mall, you go in through the door and you're immediately in a department store and you kind of maybe just only stay in that store. That was kind of the


[00:35:53] Zach: I just found it funny that here it says the stores in a mall may symbolize the state of mind with the themes that are symbolized. For example, a store such as The Gap could symbolize a more proper or conservative lifestyle, whereas a more urban clothing store may symbolize a more desirous personality choice.

[00:36:12] Victor: So

[00:36:13] Olivia: what does Spencer's gifts and Hello Kitty mishmash store represent?

[00:36:18] Zach: up to you.

[00:36:18] Victor: you need, need therapy is what I

[00:36:21] Olivia: Yeah, actually the whole mall, um, paragraph sounds like being in a place of like personal development too. Like that was what I was thinking of for myself when I was reading. It was like, you know, um, search for acceptable roles, choices, beliefs and ideas.

A time in which you're establishing your identity and making choices that will affect your sense of self. That

[00:36:43] Zach: I mean, yeah. That gels with everything you were just saying.

[00:36:47] Victor: that makes a lot of sense too. If you think about like what a, you were just talking about like how a mall felt when you were a teenager and it, it very much is like, okay, well there's this store.

If you're this kind of person and then there's this store. If you're that kind of

[00:37:01] Zach: Yeah, actually, which is super interesting when you read the department store entry, cuz you didn't see any of those, like Spencer's gifts or hot topics or anything. You were like in the the department store, which. Thery is to dream of a department store, represents intelligent fulfillment of goals, needs or wishes that you have, asking questions, doing research or negotiating what you want, not feeling any pressure about a choice you are considering

[00:37:28] Victor: That does feel like where I'm at. I'm very much like trying to carefully consider 


what I, what I wanna do with myself and where I, where, where I want to go next, you

[00:37:43] Zach: because you're sick of, or maybe not sick of, but you, you don't want to keep cycling through your various interests. You want to like, like hone in on one for an extended period of time.

[00:37:56] Victor: Yes, I do. Yeah.

[00:37:58] Zach: Gotcha.

[00:37:59] Victor: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like, um, I, I, um, I don't know. I like 

a, my life has grown and changed in a lot of wonderful ways over the last. You know, several years or whatever. Um, and in some ways, um, I'm, I'm much happier and much more fulfilled than I was like a couple years back. Um, but there are parts of myself that feel like they're kind of stuck in like a rested development and let just have like not grown in a while or like that feel like they have not been like, stimulated in a while.

And I'm just trying to figure out, yeah. I'm kind of in a place where it's like, I feel like there's, I'm not, like, I'm not my full self in all the ways that I want to be. I'm, I'm trying, I'm like chasing self-actualization and I'm not there yet. I'm trying to figure out how I get there, you know?

[00:39:02] Zach: Yeah, 

[00:39:03] Victor: And a lot of that is like professional or like, um, like with what I want to do, um, as like a member of, of like society and my community and like that stuff. I feel like I haven't made a lot of headway in that part of my life in a couple years, and I just feel like a yearning there,


[00:39:25] Zach: Yeah. Do you think that plays into the zombies entry here 

to dream of a zombie represents. Automatic or blind thinking, a sign that you are too concerned with what other people think or that you are not thinking for yourself. It may also reflect jealousy of not pleasing others. Not sure what that means, desperately following others or trying to impress others.

It may also reflect feelings about people who don't think for themselves, 

[00:39:50] Victor: hmm. 

[00:39:51] Zach: Like where trance comes up. It's, you know, you know what we think of zombies to be these like IID driven, pattern driven, mindless creatures.

[00:40:01] Victor: Yeah, the, the only thing that maybe resonates there is, um, maybe like, like an outsized interest in pleasing others. You know, like sometimes I do get into my head about like how I, how I'm perceived when I should be focusing on like, internal validation instead of like worrying about like, the external, you know.

But other than that it didn't, it doesn't really feel like it clicks with anything. I think as far as like the narrative of the dream, that represented like a, uh, uh, a crystallization of like the threat to the person that I had lugged down, right. So it's like I spent. A, a portion of the dream in like a worry place of like not knowing if there was a problem. And then the zombie attack represented like confirmation of a, of an issue of like, this person's in danger, I've let this person down instead of what's going on with them, you know?

Um, so yeah, I mean, as far as the, the symbol, I'm not, like I said, most of that didn't feel like it clicked for anything that's going on with me, but, um, but narratively it was just a threat.

[00:41:17] Zach: Yeah. I don't know how you do this by the way.

[00:41:21] Olivia: Okay.

[00:41:21] Zach: Like read Dream Bible entries and think critically.

[00:41:25] Victor: Yeah,

[00:41:26] Zach: This was very multitasking. Yeah.

[00:41:28] Olivia: Tricky. Yeah. Do

[00:41:32] Victor: Do you have any thoughts, Liv, on any of this?

[00:41:35] Olivia: Um, I feel like what I was saying originally about the laptop, about stealing the laptop kind of does. Play into this, 

[00:41:46] Victor: All right. So to dream of losing your laptop or having your laptop stolen may reflect fears of having to start over from scratch when you believed you were getting ahead in life.

[00:41:55] Olivia: getting ahead in life. That's what made me think of this the first time. Does that resonate with the rest of the pieces?

[00:42:03] Victor: I mean it, the, the idea I think is like, Well, if your laptop is stolen, then like your, your potential, um, has been taken from you or, or whatever, or like your ability to, to grow and, and have, um, you know, nice things or whatever has been stolen away from you. So if you flip it, I have like unfairly snatched success away or whatever.


[00:42:34] Zach: which was part of the stealing entry too, that.

[00:42:37] Olivia: and the, the unfairly part, obviously all of this is like your own perception of yourself, right? Like, 

[00:42:44] Victor:

[00:42:44] Olivia: think I, I see you you know, get sucked into a project and, really work hard to get something to a place where gonna go somewhere and then, Like, I think a thing that comes up for you is like that self-doubt where you will express like, you know, like who, like who am I to like think I can just like make this happen?

Right. Um, I don't know if that's a thing that actually holds you back all that much, but I do hear you express sometimes.

[00:43:17] Victor: Hmm.

[00:43:17] Olivia: Hmm.

[00:43:18] Victor: That might come up for me sometimes, but I, I don't feel like that's like a strong, um, force in my life that, like that particular concern. I think I feel that with like music more than I feel it with, like some of the other stuff that I work on is like, like an artistic thing is like, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot out there and, um, A lot of it's really good, you know?

And so like, when you're trying to put stuff out, it's like, well, what am I doing?

[00:43:46] Olivia: Well, could this dream be about music? Cuz you are putting some music 

[00:43:50] Zach: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:50] Olivia: and there are other people involved this time.

[00:43:53] Victor: Hmm.

Yeah. I mean, I, if I, if I take your interpretation of the laptop thing, it's like that, that would suggest that I have like 


[00:44:05] Olivia: maybe,

[00:44:06] Victor: uh, guilt or anxiety that I, um, you know, am unduly getting ahead in life and like, yeah. I kind of think there's some truth to that. Like, I do feel like, like my life's very good and for a number of reasons. Uh, like sometimes I feel like, uh, Super, super fortunate and like I'm, I'm playing on easy mode sometimes, you know, like I've had like a very stable job that's taken good care of me for a long time, when like, things are just fucking crazy out there for most people.

And like, yeah, I've had like a lot of support and yeah, sometimes it's like, uh, something I have been thinking about as I bounce from project to project is like,

[00:44:56] Olivia: Like,

[00:44:56] Victor: I have all of this support, I have all of this stability. If I can't turn that into something, then like, what does that say about me? You know?

Because if you, if you can't make something of worth, uh, from that place, then you just like, you just don't have it in you, you know?

[00:45:18] Zach: that's the concern, that's the worry.

[00:45:20] Victor: Yeah. That's the worry. Yeah. Or like, that's a thing that I.

[00:45:24] Zach: That's not necessarily the truth.

[00:45:28] Victor: but it's a thing I was thinking about recently, so, yeah. Not to get too vulnerable on this podcast

[00:45:34] Zach: About being vulnerable.

[00:45:36] Victor: about being vulnerable. Yeah,

[00:45:38] Zach: I hate to take a pause, but I, I'm sorry, I have to pee.

[00:45:41] Victor: it's okay. I'm gonna do a quick cry, so we're good.

[00:45:44] Zach: Okay. Different. Say something about different liquids, different holes . 


[00:45:52] Zach: Cathartic.

[00:46:20] Victor: 

I can't remember any of what we were just talking about. So, yeah, no, let's move on. No. I'm joking. Um,

[00:46:27] Olivia: I blacked out.

[00:46:28] Victor: I was trying. Yeah, that's, that's the joke I was starting to make. But, uh, yeah. Um,

[00:46:33] Zach: it seems like it was bringing up the thoughts and ideas and like feelings that you've had, but.

[00:46:39] Victor: that's how I feel. Um, a lot of the time when we've been doing this, and I don't know if it's just because, like I've got some walls up that I'm not like, able to notice or whatever, but like, like 

there, they're definitely when we're doing this, um, sometimes, sometimes it clicks, but other times it's like, well, I can make that simple fit.

I can make that simple fit, but I don't know how to like, synthesize it into like one thing or like one like that connects to like an immediate thing going on with me, you know?

[00:47:16] Olivia: I can relate to that. That is how this feels for me a lot of the time too. But also a thing that has happened recently, a few times for you is, well, Zach or I will edit the episode and put it out, and then when you listen to the episode, you'll be like, I know what the dream's about.

[00:47:32] Victor: That's true. That's

[00:47:34] Olivia: And it's a, it is a different experience.

Hearing it, like being analytical, um, about something you're absorbing like from a third party perspective is really different from like being analytical in the moment, um, in conversation especially about your own shit, you know?

[00:47:52] Victor: Yeah. Yeah. It's a really different experience to be in the hot seat. Um, like I'm, I'm comfortable doing the analysis, I think, where it's like, okay, I've got this dream and I've got all these puzzle pieces and I get to sit here and try and piece together how they fit together. Um, being in the hot seat is more like, just like letting stuff come at you trying to be receptive to it and then like just kinda waiting for something to click.

It feels


[00:48:23] Zach: Yeah,

[00:48:23] Victor: Um,

[00:48:24] Zach: which is, I, I don't know if there always is something to click, I mean,

[00:48:31] Victor: yeah,

[00:48:31] Zach: The amount of times that there, there is something to click kind of suggests that like maybe there always is, but it also, I don't know, it makes sense to me that like thoughts and feelings would be enough to create a dream. Like

if these are just like, just the themes of the things you've been thinking about, that would be enough to generate a dream

[00:48:56] Olivia: Yeah, like it doesn't have to be

[00:48:58] Zach: about a

[00:48:59] Olivia: exactly about a perfect situation that you've experienced. It can be about. Symbols that are related to things you've been thinking and feeling. And you can probably apply to various situations. And then sometimes it's like, oh, this is very specifically about this one thing that happened on Tuesday.

[00:49:18] Victor: Right.

[00:49:19] Olivia: not every time it's, that makes sense to me. Yeah.

[00:49:22] Victor: yeah. I mean, I think, like I said at the top, like first thing that was obvious to me was there's this through line of, um, me not doing what I needed to do to take care of somebody else. And so they're suffering, you know, or like, I've caused a problem by, by like failing a social obligation, you know? Um, and then, yeah, I do feel like there's something there about, um, I kind of float through this situation.

I throw, I float through a lot of this until, um, the final confrontation with this girl that I've wronged, right. And who is suffering because of it. And then like, And then I'm like, I'm basically just finding ways to shut her up. Right? I'm like literally like shoving things into her mouth so that she's like not able to do anything.

Um, so like, yeah, I mean, I, like I said, I, I, um, something that has been on my mind recently is like

[00:50:24] Olivia: feelings.

[00:50:25] Victor: like, um, I should be able to do something with what I have, you know? Um, and then also like feeling like I'm not, um, there for like people the way I should be. Like, I don't feel like I'm like 


for my community the way I should be. You know? I'm just instead like single-mindedly focused on like, how do I, how do I do something that feels like an accomplishment, you know?

And, um, That's not, that's not the best way to live, right? So, um, yeah, I just, uh,

[00:51:04] Zach: it feels like enough to inspire a dream,

[00:51:07] Victor: yeah, I mean that, that's, that, that's just broadly the stuff I, I've been struggling with is like, oh man, I wanna, I wanna check off these life accomplishment boxes. And then also, oh man, like chasing these life accomplishment boxes feels really hollow and like, how do I find a way to do that and also feel like I'm doing something that's like good for my soul and struggling to figure that out, you know?

Um, yeah, 

[00:51:34] Olivia: something that sets this dream apart from the other dreams where um, your actions have inadvertently hurt somebody, , the person that you hurt, um, then became a threat to you at the end. Um,

[00:51:51] Victor: That's true. Yeah.

[00:51:52] Olivia: I don't know what that means, but just throwing it out there for future. Victor, when you're listening,

[00:51:57] Victor: Mm. Mm-hmm.

[00:51:58] Olivia: this click, does this resonate?

Let us know. You can write into the young and the restless pod gmail. Uh,

[00:52:06] Victor: Wait, let me write that down. 


[00:52:07] Victor: I

[00:52:12] Zach: You know, some things are gonna be, you know, have a spark and be open and shut and some things are gonna be like, uh, an ongoing narrative like a. You know, like some of these thoughts and feelings are things you've talked about before and it's probably all going somewhere more specific. You know what I mean?

That we couldn't possibly do in one episode. So this is just like

[00:52:38] Olivia: Yeah. We're chipping


[00:52:39] Zach: a scene in the first act of a historian.

[00:52:42] Victor: yeah. I mean, uh, Think it cuz I, I do feel like really, uh, a little uncomfortable or a little vulnerable talking about this, but I also feel like it's gotta be pretty universal to be just like trying to find a thing you can do that feels like meaningful.

[00:53:01] Zach: Oh yeah, for sure.

[00:53:03] Olivia: Yeah, yeah,

[00:53:04] Victor: I just, uh, yeah, I don't know. It's like not knowing what that thing is that is like where your time and energy should go, can, I don't know, for me it just kind of like eating me up, you know?

[00:53:18] Zach: Yeah,

I, I think a lack the potentially a reason for the lack of, um, like a clique sometimes with your dreams, Victor is preexisting self-awareness.

[00:53:32] Victor: eh, 

[00:53:33] Zach: So like, cuz I feel like sometimes just speaking for myself when I, when we hit something in a dream where I'm like, oh shit. Like it, like I have an epiphany of some sort.

It's because it is something that, and I like to consider myself as a self-aware person, but like in those moments, I think it's something that maybe is still just the tip of the iceberg, but it feels like an epiphany. And it feels like, like we cracked the code cuz we just cracked something open for the first time.

And if that is already open for you, then there's not gonna be a a spark the first time that, uh, that we hit it cuz you've already been thinking about it.

[00:54:15] Olivia: Yeah, that, that sounds right.

[00:54:19] Victor: And also that I've, I feel like I've been kind of in the same place for a long time. Like, I hate to say that, but like, I feel like I've just been spinning my wheels in the same place for quite a while. You

[00:54:30] Zach: might be true. Cause I mean, when we started this pot, I had just moved to Los Angeles and like made a bunch of life changes. So it makes sense that I, like, I for one would have a lot of like, epiphanies right in a row when I'm for 

like forcing, um, uh, growth in an individuation by virtue of circumstance.

[00:54:54] Victor: Yeah. You're, you're in the thick of it, like you're, you're doing stuff that changes your life and your circumstances. Yeah.

 But like I said, it's really just like a particular part of my life that I feel is stagnant. It's very much like, 

like it's career stuff. It's been career stuff for a long time of like, just like, what do I do that feels like it has value in the world in some way?

You know, that's

[00:55:20] Zach: Oh, so you mean beyond your side projects? Like you're looking at how do you 

change your, your, like the bulk of your week?

[00:55:29] Victor: yeah. Or if I can find like a side project that scratches that itch for me, where it's like, well, sure, my like day job doesn't feel meaningful, whatever it is. But, um, but I have this thing that I'm doing that I care about, you know, like I'm just, I just, I feel like that.

[00:55:49] Olivia: that,

[00:55:50] Victor: You know, I'm a sim and that bar, I'm a little like sim life thing is like down at empty or close to empty and it drives me a little crazy cuz it's just an unmet need and everything else is fine.

But that one thing just eats at me all the time. You know? Did you guys play the 

[00:56:06] Zach: yeah, No, that was a great, that was a great reference. That was,

[00:56:09] Victor: So I'm pissing and shitting on the floor and,

[00:56:12] Zach: and crying in gibberish.

[00:56:14] Victor: and I'm just gonna keep doing that until I can charge that bar. Like, just like a little bit, just like past my minimum, you know? But really everything else is great.

It's just like this one part of my life that feels like kind of a black hole and I just have not cracked it, you know?

[00:56:29] Zach: Yeah, I, I don't know if you can relate to this about music, but this is something I haven't like, um, I don't think I've like really talked about this out loud. Uh, or like, know. Music is something that I do like compulsively, like it's just something I've always been obsessed with and it feels like an element of the universe, you know what I mean? More so than a personality trait or an interest or anything.

It just feels like it's something that I have to do and will always do. But insofar as it becoming, like a career or even like a, a thing I'm recognized for or whatever, like I go to shows now and I don't feel, I watch bands on stage and I don't feel like, oh, it should be me up there. I don't feel that anymore.

I used to like be really driven by, um, I dunno if it's ego or like, uh, um, aspiration. I don't, I don't know what it is. Like there. There's something different from 19 year old Zach versus 33 year old Zach when it comes to music and where I'm at now feels a lot more like pure, just pure, like, need to express even if very few people ever hear it. Um, But sometimes I do struggle with that.

Like where did that, where did that drive go, and what direction should it go in now that would be fulfilling, you know? You know, I don't know. I'm not sure if that makes sense.

[00:58:08] Victor: Yeah. No, it, it makes sense. Yeah. Um, I don't know. I feel like I'm on like, I'm at like a different place with it. Like I, I was in that same like really driven like big aspirations and like for a while there w was like I couldn't listen to music that was too like, even like adjacent, like genre adjacent to the stuff that I wanted to do because just listening to it would like drive me crazy cuz it was like, well, if I think that it's worse than what I'm making, well then why are they doing that when like, I'm sitting here, like, I should be up there.

Like, what am I doing that's keeping me

from being up 

[00:58:50] Zach: quit my day job and pour everything into this, cuz I, if they can make it, I can make it.

[00:58:54] Victor: And then if they, I perceive them as like doing something better than what I'm doing, then it's like, oh, I'm a piece of shit. I'm wasting my time. I'm not putting enough energy into this. I should be putting more time into this to get better at it.

So that like ate me up for. A little while and I stopped listening to music and kind, kind of just had like a weird experience with that and got really into like, lofi hip hop, cuz it was like far enough away from like, like I really into beats, you know, because it was just like so, so removed from the kind of music that I like to make, you know?

Um, but, um, where I am now, it's like, I don't know. I've, like, I've sl I used to write songs like I'd, I'd write like a couple songs a month. Um, and I was really consistent and prolific for a long time. And, but so much of that was built around isolation for me. It was like living alone or having a lot of alone time and like part of what allowed me to write music came out of that aloneness or whatever.

And I'm not alone at this phase of my life. Like I have a full life and loving partner and. Spend most of my time surrounded by people and animals and stuff. And so like 


of me still has like that yearning of like, oh man, I haven't written something a long time. But like, it's just, cuz like the, the circumstances that are are kind like the recipe for me to like be writing a lot is just like not there, you know?

So like I, um, 

recorded it a bunch of music recently and I'm figuring out how I'm gonna put it out, but it kind of feels like, 


almost feels like a, like a preservation of a thing that once existed on some level. You know,

[01:00:39] Zach: Yeah, no,

[01:00:40] Victor: I feel like I'm like, I'm like documenting a thing that I used to do. Um, and part of me wants to like still be writing.

I still tried every now and then. I've written a couple good songs in the last couple of years. Jesus Christ. But, um, it slowed way



[01:00:57] Zach: no, I'm in a very similar situa because the, the main resource that I lack is time. Um, when it comes to writing, I mean, I, I have no money either, but these days you don't need a lot of that to record.

Um, you just need time, which I have none of. But, uh, I, I don't know. I, I, I also am like working on a body of songs, I guess lp I guess.

Um, but it is not like with the intention of like, I'm going to shake the world with this. I'm gonna put this out and sell it, yada yada. It is, it is more like a documentation. Like, cuz like I said, I'm always gonna be writing. I can't not write music that it's like, it just feels too good to give up. It's like meditation or something.

Um, I don't meditate, but like, I, I imagine it's what it's like for other people, you know? It's, it's, uh, it just feels good to do and so does recording it and, and capturing it. Um, it's gonna be a while before I finish this cuz like I said, I have no time, but, um, but I, yeah, I don't know. I guess the, the reasons I had in the past to record stuff have fallen away and, and, and part of that is that the, the things that are taking up my time feel worthwhile than the things that used to take up my time. So I'm happier. Um, and let's, and therefore putting fewer eggs in that one basket.

[01:02:34] Victor: I, uh, I remember like, um,

This is a little corny, but like, you know, neutral milk hotel, right? Yeah. So like when I was younger and that band was having like a big influence on me, it used to like drive me a little crazy of like, how do you have this like massively successful hit and then just stop. You're just done. You just walk away from it, not making music anymore, not putting it out.

How do you do that? And um, I was just reading about it,


[01:03:07] Zach: it makes a little more 

[01:03:08] Victor: weeks ago. I was just reading a couple weeks ago about like, you know, when they, when they got that big, um, swell of success, the, um, uh, I think, I think his name's Jeff Magnum, the, the main like songwriting force there. Like he, he had like mental health stuff that came up.

I was just like really overwhelmed by everything. And just like soon as the band caught wind, he was like, I can't do this. I need to, I need to not do this and go do my own thing. And, um, Yeah. Uh, it just, uh, I, when I was younger, didn't like to imagine a version of myself that, um, didn't feel like compelled to be writing and playing music and being angsty about it and really trying to make that work or whatever.

And like, I, I had this like fear of the person I might be of being like a boring person or whatever. Um, I know I'm there and I'm like, oh yeah, like I'm there, I'm experiencing it. Um, and uh, it's just funny how that is kind of how life is a lot of the time. Like, I was just talking to Olivia the other day about like, um, I remember when I was a kid having this like anxiety about puberty.

Because all my understanding was it was very mysterious, but my understanding is like that your brain was just gonna change and you're just gonna be a different person because like, totally different set of like drives and interests and like, you're just, were different, you know? And it's like, that's terrifying.

It's like dying, right? It's like you got, like, your brain got reset and you got turned into like a pod person or something. And

[01:04:44] Olivia: is terrifying. Yeah.

[01:04:46] Victor: and I know I, okay, I know this is fucked up. I don't, I don't really mean this, but like some, something evil in my heart kind of feels that way about people with kids. I'm like, they're, they're zombies.

They're, they're pod people. Like how could, just, because it's so different than my life. So it's like, how do you live, like how are you able to operate that way? I know it's not true, but like, it's just hard for me to like, imagine the version of myself that is doing that. You know? I don't know. Yeah.

[01:05:16] Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. I think that that is unimaginable until you're doing


[01:05:21] Zach: Yeah, I 

[01:05:21] Olivia: And I do think that there's a distinction, like there's a like. The people you know who have kids, like even if you were good friends with them before they had kids, you probably don't spend time with them in the same way that you did. Um, because it's, when you have kids, it's easier to spend time with other people who have kids.

And so like

[01:05:43] Victor: like

[01:05:44] Olivia: yeah, like a lot changes. Um, your brain is literally rewired when you have a kid


[01:05:52] Zach: a lot. A lot like puberty,

[01:05:54] Olivia: Yeah.

[01:05:55] Zach: once you go through puberty you have a hard time remembering what it was like to, not to, to, you know, be pre prepubescent.

[01:06:04] Olivia: Right. And I think both of those things, when you're on the other side of it, you don't wish, you, wish it didn't happen usually.

[01:06:14] Zach: don't wanna go back.

[01:06:15] Olivia: You don't wanna go back to pre puberty, even though everything is different and, and not, and also like you have lost some things, you know? Um, there are things that don't come back.

Um, but also there's things that you can't even comprehend prior to going through it, right? Things that you'll gain that you don't, you can't have any, concept of, which is why they seem like pod people, and I agree with you.

[01:06:42] Victor: right?

[01:06:43] Zach: This actually, like to me, makes parenthood appealing though cuz one of my gripes with adulthood is there are no more puberties.

You know what I mean? 

[01:06:52] Olivia: It is kind of like the next big, exciting thing.

[01:06:55] Zach: Yeah. Cause I, I, I remember being like, you know, post puberty like, uh, teenager and thinking that, um, when I was 33 like I am now, that something would have happened. Like puberty to make me a different person. A k a, an adult.

Like there was some, there was gonna be another fundamental cerebral change that made me like, embody, that made me become the type of person that I saw my dad to be, for example. And now that I'm 33, I realize like, that doesn't happen. You're, you're just, you're the same guy you were as a teenager, just with a bunch more experiences and, um, and responsibility.

[01:07:42] Victor: right

[01:07:43] Zach: Um, unless un, unless you have kids maybe,

[01:07:46] Olivia: right.

[01:07:47] Zach: um, or something, something else that re rewires your brain trauma, maybe

[01:07:52] Victor: after the accident.

[01:07:55] Zach: it was never the same.

[01:07:58] Olivia: The accidental child

[01:08:03] Victor: Um, I remember having this, uh, teacher in high school, um, that like, everybody loved this guy who was like very popular. I don't remember what prompted this, but it's like, he was very popular among the students and I remember him going off on like a rant one time, um, cuz we were like, I think seniors or whatever, right?

Um, I, I remember him going on a rant one time where he was basically like, 

[01:08:29] Olivia: we 

[01:08:30] Victor: not peers, we are not friends. He was telling still like a group of kids. It was like, we are not peers, we're not friends. We will never be peers or friends. Like, I will never hang out with you. We are never, doesn't matter if you graduated or you're done with college or whatever.

We are never gonna be buds because we will always be at like fundamentally different places in our lives. Like, like I am an adult man with kids. Like, and even if you become an adult man with kids, your kids are gonna be two and mine are gonna be 14. We're always gonna be at such different places in life that we're never gonna be like, we're never going to connect on that level.

And that stuck with me cuz it is like, yeah, you are always kind of, you're like kind of on a a track and there's the people kind of around your same age and then some of them are kind of doing the same thing and everybody else, you're sort of like always gonna have some amount of distance from, I do know like obviously as you get older, like the older you get, the less like age matters, but there's still like all of these other factors that really put you in just like a totally different way of living and being and thinking than other people around you.

[01:09:43] Zach: Yeah. Which I don't think precludes you from friendship. If anything, I 

think that's like, I mean, I, I have friends in their forties with kids and like that, that's an interesting dynamic to me. Like that's, I feel like I'm doing recon when I hang out with them

[01:10:00] Victor: I think it makes sense for like 

[01:10:01] Zach: teacher. Yeah. That's the. 

[01:10:02] Victor: and draw that, yeah. That line with his students. But I just thought that stuck with me the way that he framed that and the way that you thought of that.

[01:10:10] Zach: Yeah. It does feel like students and teachers should have some sort of like HIPAA agreement.

[01:10:16] Victor: absolutely. Yeah.

Thank you for listening to the Jung and the Restless. You can follow us on social media at the Jung and the Restless Pod and submit your dreams for interpretation to the Jung and the Restless Pod at Gmail. And as we always say, it's sleepy time somewhere.

Somewhere. That's a cute one. 

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