20. Mama Bear

The Dream Team talks about name determinism, which Zach doesn’t quite buy. But that’s exactly what a guy with a…...

The Dream Team talks about name determinism, which Zach doesn’t quite buy. But that’s exactly what a guy with a cool name like “Zach” would think. Olivia’s coworker, dubbed “Quinn” as per her request for a cool name, has a Goldilocks-esque dream about mothers, beds, and bears. Olivia needs new medication. Zach has a couple lucid dreams, which lead to a discussion on dream cartography. 

0:00 Intro

6:06: Listener Dream

37:13: Chat about Lucid dreams and dream cartography

About Dream Bible:

Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams.  Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.


Dream Bible entries used in this episode:

Bear: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=bear

bed: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=bed

Mother: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=mother

Google: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=google

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejungandtherestlesspod/

Check out our website for episode transcripts: https://thejungandtherestlesspodcast.com/

Submit your dreams for interpretation to thejungandtherestlesspod@gmail.com

Episode Transcript

20. Mama Bear

[00:00:00] Victor: Welcome to The Jung and the Restless. I'm Victor. 

[00:00:02] Zach: I'm Zach.

[00:00:03] Olivia: And I'm Olivia. And this is the podcast where your mother is also your dog, which is also shame.

Uh, I saw this once on a show at our old. Zach, but, so this lady was talking about how your name, it like determines your personality or has some kind of influence over who you are as a person. And that seems crazy to me. Um, and, and in her, in her area, it was kind of like a woo spooky thing. But she kind of demonstrated it on a couple of the people who worked at that job and the, the, uh, um, the like analysis that she came up with was like scarily accurate to those people's personalities.

But then Victor and I were looking into it and um, found a separate thing that was talking about that phenomenon that your name actually. Seem to have some influence over your personality, just um, based on what your preconceiving about subconscious. Yeah. And subc obviously 

[00:01:26] Zach: living up to stereotypes. 

[00:01:28] Olivia: Yes, exactly.

Like the sound of a name can, like influence how you behave and how you, um, are perceived by other 

[00:01:36] Zach: people. Yeah. Did you hear, have you heard about. I don't know how true this is cause I read it on the internet, but, uh, that, that dad that named his kids' winner and loser. Oh, that's lame. 

[00:01:47] Victor: Have you heard about that?

That's not very nice. I haven't heard about that. Tell me about that. 

[00:01:50] Zach: He was trying to, let me look it up. Make sure this isn't a made up story. I have heard, 

[00:01:55] Victor: um, various things over the years about stuff like that and also about how like, um, like internalized stereotypes and things can like, like affect your performance on things like tests, right?

It's like, If you're like, inundated with a message that you should be bad at a thing like math or whatever, like that negatively affects your performance. It's like you stop 

[00:02:17] Zach: believing in yourself. Okay. It looks like this is true. I mean, this, this looks like a blog here, but they, they're citing their sources.

Uh, yeah. In 1958, a man named Robert Lane from New York named, had two sons and named one winner and the other loser. Deliberately to see if it would've an impact on their life. And Loser grew up to work for the N Y P D earning over six figures. He had excelled in sports and academics. Winner, uh, was had over 30 arrests including trespassing.

Theft, resisting arrest, um, and yeah. Criminal. He got too confident. Well, I mean the out there with losers, he just went by Lou. 

[00:03:01] Olivia: Yeah. There's not really a nickname for winner. Yeah. 

[00:03:03] Zach: Winnie. Winnie the poo probably with scarred him. Hmm. Yeah. I don't know if that's an argument for or against name determinism. 

[00:03:11] Victor: I think four.

Right. It's like, just cuz it's counter to the, to like the identifier doesn't mean it didn't have an. 

[00:03:20] Zach: Yeah, it had a like twisted monkey p kind of impact 

[00:03:24] Victor: and people are getting like really creative with, with baby names, so we're gonna have a whole other variety of person walking around. Right. 

[00:03:33] Zach: I don't think of a specific archetype when I think of my name. Oh, really? No. Do you? Yeah. Well, what kind of guy, Zach, I went to a school with, like, I only went to a school of like 300 total, and like 10 of us were named Zach. And they were all different, different people. It just, it had a, like no one, no one in my parents' generation was named Zach, so they all thought they were being real original at the same time.

Mm-hmm. Mm. But yeah. 

[00:03:58] Olivia: What, what? Yeah. I think you def, you defy my, the stereotype. Oh, okay. Zs that I feel like I've known a lot of, like asshole Zs, no offense to any Zs out there, but I'm a real loser lane. it's a cool guy name. I think. It's a Z name. That's a cool name. 

[00:04:16] Zach: Cool. Like, that's true.

Jock. Cool. Or like artist. Cool. 

[00:04:19] Olivia: It could be either, honestly, just cool in general, but, 

[00:04:23] Zach: but like, like asshole. Cool. Sometimes, because that's what you said, you think of an asshole when you think of that. Well, 

[00:04:29] Olivia: right, because I've known a few assholes X. But like I think that if you have the notion that you are a cool guy that can turn you into a bit of an 

[00:04:37] Victor: asshole.

Coolness is just a tool. You know? You can use it for good or you can use it for evil. 

[00:04:43] Zach: It's true, it's morally neutral. Right tool. Um, luckily I never thought I was that cool. Yeah, and that's why you're 

[00:04:50] Victor: cool. What you could say 

[00:04:53] Zach: your archetype was like Zack Morris from Saved by the Bell. He was kind of a cool guy.

I guess. 

[00:04:59] Olivia: I feel like Victor is like a cool guy name too. 

[00:05:03] Victor: I feel like you don't, you don't hear it that often. 

[00:05:06] Olivia: No, but it's got like, like vampire vibes 

[00:05:09] Victor: does have, yeah, vampire energy. Yeah. 

[00:05:13] Zach: It feels professorial and like Aready. A picture of Victor, just like a victor archetype, wearing like a tweed jacket and smoking 

[00:05:22] Victor: a pipe.

I'm getting there slowly. I'm becoming that guy. He's been practicing. 

[00:05:26] Zach: And Olivia's like a, um, like a, that's a cool, that's full name. She's like a free spirited character in a Jane Austen novel. Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:35] Victor: I can dig it much too. Uh, Olivia's Shame and Disappointment. Uh, the name Olivia is like one of the most popular baby names right 

[00:05:43] Olivia: now.

Yeah. It's been like top of the charts last couple years, huh? It's a good name. There's lots of nickname potential. It's a. Like, I feel like I could go by a variety of things, but never livey. That sucks. Mm-hmm. It's 

[00:05:57] Zach: no good. All right. Duly noted. 

[00:06:00] Victor: It's a good viewpoint to see the world 

[00:06:01] Olivia: as a dream.

Um, I had a coworker send in a dream. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's a pretty good. Dive in. Okay. Oh, speaking of names, she asked me to give her a cool name, specifically she asked for a cool name, so Okay. 

[00:06:22] Victor: Let's, for her pseudonym. Let's start doing some brainstorming. Yeah. You guys, I'll let you guys figure it out. Yeah.

Libby Centar. 

[00:06:30] Zach: Did you say Centar? 

[00:06:32] Victor: Centar, yeah. 

[00:06:35] Zach: I was recently thinking about what I would name. If I had pet raccoons Hmm. Would I would, I would name them. Mm-hmm. I decided on, on Harry and Marv after the bandits from home alone. That's pretty good. That's 

[00:06:47] Victor: very good. 

[00:06:48] Zach: Sticky bandits. 

[00:06:50] Victor: What did you name the uh, the raccoons at the old job?


[00:06:54] Olivia: slippery 

[00:06:55] Victor: Jack. Right? Slippery jack. That's a good one. 

[00:06:59] Olivia: Okay. I have this pulled up. Have you come up with her? Cool. 

[00:07:03] Victor: Sapphire? No. Um, 

[00:07:07] Zach: Sylvia 

[00:07:08] Victor: Calypso. 

[00:07:09] Olivia: Oh, these are bad 

[00:07:11] Zach: Bahamas. 

[00:07:15] Victor: Nigel QUni. Hey, that's pretty good. QUni. 

[00:07:20] Olivia: QUni. I like that. Quinn is a cool 

[00:07:22] Victor: name. Quinn. Quinn. Quinn is a cool name. Quinn is a cool. All right, so gender neutral.

[00:07:26] Zach: feel like that's, yeah, 

[00:07:27] Olivia: let's go with Quinn. That I think that 

[00:07:29] Zach: works. I think gender neutral names are cool. Yeah. Like Jesse, my parents almost name me Jesse, and I'm so pissed they didn't. I've heard 

[00:07:36] Olivia: that a lot 

[00:07:37] Zach: from you. From me. Yeah. I bring it. I bring it up a lot. Yeah. You talked about that. My middle name was James.

I was almost Jesse James Award. That was a good name. I don't like it. Sick as fuck. That might have been an asshole though. Cool. If I, if my name 

[00:07:51] Olivia: is Zach, might have been Jesse. Zack for Sure. Award though. 

[00:07:54] Zach: Jesse, Zack Ward. Now James is my grandpa's name. So that was a 

[00:07:58] Victor: shoe-in rolling into town. The big iron on your hip.

What? Uh, nothing. What? It's a nev, nevermind. 

[00:08:07] Zach: You. Who, who? Victor is the type of guy who uses this. The expression if, and you don't mind? 

[00:08:13] Victor: No, I'm not the guy. I would just appreciate when other people use the expression. 

[00:08:17] Zach: No, I mean, Victor, the archetype. Oh. 

[00:08:21] Olivia: If that's all right with you. Ba Um, okay. So Quinn sent in a dream, and I'm just gonna read it verbatim.

Quinn says, I'm in bed, cuddled up with my mom, and then in parenthesis it says, why lull? And I realize there's a grizzly bear that is in bed holding me from behind. Essentially, I'm the filling on a really fucked up sandwich. The middle, I wake her up and I'm. Uh, I've gotta have you move more your way so I can try to naturally move away from the bear.

Anytime I make progress, I end up being pulled in tighter by the bear. I'm reminding myself to not panic because it'll smell fear, um, uh, because it's not cuddly, but rather end up being aggressive and clawing the fuck out of. For whatever reason, I felt like this was not an uncommon occurrence that the bear was holding me, but that this time it wouldn't let me go.

Eventually I realized I was in a dream and very stressfully told myself to wake up. Cool. 

[00:09:24] Victor: Do we want to dive right into short and swing some, some dream Bible stuff? Do we want to get, um, Quinn's answers to the, to the questions or, yeah. What do 

[00:09:35] Olivia: you think? I have? Additional context. Um, 

[00:09:38] Victor: you want context or dream 

[00:09:39] Olivia: bible direct?

Do we want, which, which direction do we wanna work at this 

[00:09:42] Victor: from? Do you want me to call you Jesse James? I can do that if that's your preferred nomenclature. If you need, don't mind. 

[00:09:50] Zach: Uh, yeah. Maybe we should do the, the context. Okay. 

[00:09:55] Olivia: Um, so I asked Quinn. What has been on her mind the most in the last few days?

Um, and she said stress with friends and needing to move. So it sounds like she's, she's trying to move or, uh, needing to move, but that hasn't, um, progressed yet, or isn't totally. In the works. Um, and I asked for some more. I asked her to elaborate on the, the friends situation and she said that they have felt like she's pulled away.

She doesn't think so, um, but that she got really busy with work and just had no time, but that it caused some tension in her friend group and they're her best friends. Uh, I asked what's the, or, I asked for the most, most honest feelings about the people in this dream, and she says, I have zero contact with my mother.

I have no idea why she was in the dream. She's never met my daughter. She doesn't know about my relationship ending. Um, and additional details. She said she was in, she said she was in her boyfriend's bed. Current boyfriend. Yeah, it sounds like. I think so. Her, her last relationship ended, um, and she's seeing somebody new and it, it sounds like that's going really well for her, but it was, um, it was this person's bed and that they were taking a nap.

Um, there was nothing around, it was just a bed in an empty room and it was bright. Uh, she felt like she couldn't move at. Like the bear would, it says I couldn't move at all, like the bear would put her. And then in parentheses, she was female, legs on my legs, arms, and held me tighter. Also, I feel like I Googled something, but I don't know how, and I never had my phone.

Um, sh I guess she feels like she was like maybe Googling something in that situation to try and help. Um, yeah. And then I, I did ask for like a little more specifics, um, about her mom. She said that, um, she said that her mom is not really a good person or parent, that she doesn't really respect boundaries.

She wouldn't stop smoking, wouldn't get the vaccinations she needed to be around her newborn. And then guilted her about not being able to see her daughter, um, who she had only referred to as her granddaughter. Um, she says, I realized she was never going to change and I spent a lot of time in therapy unlearning a lot of the trauma.

Um, that she passed on to me and so that I don't pass it on to my daughter. Um, so I told her that in order for her to be in my daughter's life, she needed to be in therapy and make substantial progress in key areas. She doesn't feel like she needs therapy. And yeah, it sounds like since then it's progressed to a place where they're no contact and she's like blocked her, you know, and they're not speaking right now, so.

Mm-hmm. That's, um, sounds like a stress. Complicated situation. Just like 

[00:12:52] Zach: cuddling with a bear. Yeah, exactly. When you, when you said, uh, or described the, like Googling something without having her phone, like she felt like she Googled something. Mm-hmm. I kind of laughed cause I just pictured her like, Hey Alexa.

Hey Alexa. How to get outta cuddling with a bear. And then, and then Alexa, just really loudly, like search results for how to air fry dumplings.

[00:13:22] Victor: Any, uh, first impressions before we dive into the dream Bible? 

[00:13:28] Zach: Not really. It's hard to, since I don't know her, do you have any Olivia, that you want 

[00:13:32] Olivia: to Yeah, I would say, Um, before I got any additional context, the, just the image of, um, the bear, like holding her felt, uh, I mean, and, and it also being her mother in the bed, like all of that.

Like, I kept hearing like mama bear in my head, like over overbearing. Literally overbearing. Um, yeah, like a lot. It feels like a suffocating, relat. 

[00:13:59] Zach: It did seem like it was important that the bear was a female. Yeah. And also, I mean, that whole, like, she wants to bring, um, her daughter around her grandmother, but the grandmother won't do X, Y, and Z.

Like, like it's, uh, between a rock and a hard place. Kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. She's between her mom and this bear of a situation. And then, 

[00:14:22] Olivia: um, something you just said, like her ne asking something of her mom and then, um, her mom not, not complying with that in the dream, she asked her mom to move. More her way so that she could get out of this situation and all right, and that didn't 

[00:14:42] Victor: work.

Something that has come up a lot as we've done these dream interpretations is if you're dreaming about someone or dreaming about a situation, they're usually not what makes an appearance in your dream. Mm-hmm. So it's like, at first glance, it's pretty, pretty easy to say like, oh, okay. Like she's got a complicated relationship with her.

She's in bed with her mom and a bear. This is about her mom. But something we, my, my next thought is like, maybe this is about how something that her mom is representative of or her, like something about the dynamic she has with her mom is appearing in other places in her life, right? Like perhaps this friendship situation, this, uh, friend fight that she's dealing with.

Mm-hmm. So just initial thoughts is it might be like mom means something about some other relationship. 

[00:15:37] Olivia: I agree. I think we should keep open to that because it's easy to, especially with something like this that feels so on the nose about what, about that situation that she described with her actual mom.

Um, let's definitely explore it with an open mind, I guess. 

[00:15:55] Victor: So I'm gonna start burning through e. Yeah. Um, we've got, uh, bears beds, mother and Google. There's a Google Google entry. Google. There's a Google entry. Yeah. Um, there's also a 

[00:16:08] Olivia: website entry. There is website. Yeah. Websites. 

[00:16:11] Victor: Um, let me know if you think I missed anything.

Um, bears to see a bear and a dream represents an aspect of yourself that is staunchly independent or that doesn't like to. You or someone else that likes to do things all on their own, not liking other ideas or other people interfering with you, you, some you or someone else that is impossible to compromise with negatively.

The bear reflects possessiveness and overbearing attitude or unhealthy loner tendencies. You or someone else that doesn't want to share anything or do anything with anyone else. You want something all to yourself or to monopolize something, a fierce desire to have something all to yourself.

Alternatively, a bear may reflect a problem that makes nobody like to be around you, or an issue that makes socializing impossible. A grumpy attitude, an intimidating control freak in your. To dream of being chased by a bear. Well, that didn't happen to dream of being attacked by a bear. Not really. She said a 

[00:17:11] Olivia: grizzly bear.

[00:17:12] Victor: Oh, we've got black bear here. I don't see, but no grizzly. Grizzly. Okay. I can search for a 

[00:17:16] Olivia: grizzly. That's okay. Um, I think all of that reads really on the nose to me about her mom. Um, like her, the situation with her mom and, uh, her daughter, 

[00:17:32] Zach: especially the stuff up top, I thought, which was before we got into the negative aspects.


[00:17:37] Olivia: Like, I mean, and honestly just all of it could be related back to that, but like the, like the possessiveness and like, Um, it felt like it very much rang like a lack of compromise and like demanding,

[00:17:51] Victor: yeah. It's, uh, kind of antisocial, you know, it's, um, putting yourself far above all else and, um, you know, not caring if you upset other people.


[00:18:02] Olivia: used the word narcissist to describe her. 

[00:18:05] Victor: Hmm, yeah. This last line of negative and intimidating control freak in your life. Okay, move on to beds. The dream of a bed represents an issue. You are not interested in doing anything about situations you have chosen to accept, live with, or do nothing about.

Making the choice to metaphorically sleep on it. There's sitting in a bed to dream of, an unmade bed to get out of bed. Symbolizes an effort to fix a problem or make a change. And she finds it impossible to get out of bed. Yeah. Because she's stuck between these two things because there's a, yeah. Wow. Um, if you're waking up in a different and or unknown bed, did we start, she knew the bed.

[00:18:45] Olivia: It was, um, her boyfriend bed of the, the guy 

[00:18:48] Victor: that she's seeing. If you find yourself in someone else's bed, that I don't think necessarily fits here, but I can read it if you'd 

[00:18:55] Olivia: like. Yeah. I think it was, I mean, it was someone else's bed. It wasn't 

[00:18:58] Victor: her. If you find yourself sitting in someone else's bed, then it represents inaction or acceptance of an issue through a perspective based on whatever your qualities stand out the most about that person.

So that suggests maybe it's, um, that there's some element about the new boyfriend that is involved here. 

[00:19:17] Olivia: She said that, uh, It seems like she's really, really fond of this person and that that relationship is going really well. 

[00:19:25] Victor: This may be relevant, uh, to dream of being forced onto a bed or feeling held down on a bed may reflect feelings about wanting to make a change in your life, but feeling that something stops you.

[00:19:38] Olivia: I wonder if that's about moving too, because. She said that, that's been on her mind a lot. Uh, I actually, I didn't get any additional context about that, but she just said, needing to move whi, which to me reads like, there's, um, reasons why that's not happening right now. And 

[00:19:54] Victor: then, um, we have to dream of two people in bed together without sex.

Symbolizes two aspects of your personality that are inactive or not doing anything about an issue. Ask yourself what qualities or feelings about the people stand out the most and how these qualities may apply to waking life situations where you're comfortable keeping a situation as it is or feel comfortable not doing anything about a problem.

Hmm. So it's possible. That she feels, um, you know, everything in your dream represents you, right? So it's like maybe she feels like she is not acting to resolve an issue, and it has to do with the tension between two parts of herself, one represented by the bear and one represented by her mother. 

[00:20:38] Olivia: Yeah, I, I think that that came up, um, in another part of the entry too.

Something about, um, that would have us comparing Bear and Mother. So maybe let's hear 

[00:20:49] Zach: Mother. That's gotta be a long one. Oh 

[00:20:51] Victor: yeah. Let me just do a quick scroll down this entry. Um, okay. So to dream of your mother represents your intuition or your internal guidance. She reflects your ability to make decisions that will affect you in the future or how well you make choices based on gut instincts.

She also reflects how lucky you feel about coincidences or good foresight feelings about how to safely get something. Obviously this is making assumptions about your relationship with your mother, I think to some. Is 

[00:21:19] Olivia: there a, like a 

[00:21:21] Victor: negative? Let me 

[00:21:21] Zach: see. I mean, I guess there are cultural notions and understanding of what a mother, I guess a symbol is, you know, regardless of what your, per your relationship is personally with your mom.

Well, I think we 

[00:21:33] Olivia: talked about this on. Um, the, like episode six, I think the Oklahoma Octopus episode where Victor, you had a dream about your grandmother and your mother, and we, um, kind of went down the same road of like, we read the mother entry and is like, um, there's. Your mother. And then there's the, like, the idea of a mother figure.

[00:21:55] Zach: Yeah. It's the capital M mother. 

[00:21:57] Victor: Mm-hmm. And I think, um, go, going back to that dream that I had, um, I, when I dreamt of a mother, um, the person that I was dreaming of was not my, my mom in actual real life. Right. Uh, which led me to think that that was about the symbolism of. More so than my actual relationship with my mom.

And, um, in the same way I think that in this case, uh, Quinn is dreaming about their, their actual mother. And so it, my guess is that this has more to do with, um, that relationship than it does with the mother archetype. Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:35] Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I, I do think that having. Um, a negative or complicated relationship with your mother is gonna play a role in it being like the, the idea that it's like your intuition and like good fortune maybe is less in play in that situation.

[00:22:54] Victor: What I find interesting is, um, that the, these two symbols seem so similar to me, right? Uh, this bear and. Um, description of, of, uh, Quinn's relationship with her mom, feel like they should be the same symbol, or I'm not seeing a lot of differences between the two symbols. Mm-hmm. And usually I would expect it to be some kind of, you know, like, Um, two separate things, you know?

So is it, is it that they are, they're representative of the same thing and then that thing is keeping her pinned from making a change? Or is there like a subtle difference in meaning here that we're missing, we're missing context, or we haven't thought of it? 

[00:23:37] Olivia: Yeah, cuz I, I do feel like. Um, following Dream Logic, like if I were to just be having a dream about, about my mother and my mother, I had that, a similar relationship to my mother as Quinn, I might just dream about the bear, right?

So her mother being there. Is an additional layer to that, I think. 

[00:23:59] Victor: Yeah. It makes me think that we're missing something. 

[00:24:02] Zach: And do you think the, the positioning of her being the, like the meat and the sandwich, like at, at first to me, that gave like the vibe of like, like I said, between rock and hard place.

Like, like especially trapped, but it, I guess it could also be like more of a buffer thing. Mm-hmm. Like she's, um, maybe paralyzed into. Taking action on something because she feels like she's needs to be a, a, you know, a buffer between one thing and, and another. I don't know how to apply it to her situation, given the details that I have, but I, I'm just considering like multiple dynamics of the sleeping arrangement 

[00:24:39] Victor: so that she, you're saying that perhaps she's acting as the buffer between her mother and the bear and that she isn't like kind of protecting 

[00:24:47] Zach: her mother?

Yeah. Or what, or whatever they each represent, you know, in your life. I 

[00:24:51] Olivia: wonder if it has to do with like, I don't know. I, I, I, I imagine that it's, um, a difficult position to be in letting go of your mom, and that is the position that Quinn has found herself in is that she's cut off her mom. Um, but I wonder if it's just maybe the part of you that is going to still see your mom as your mom, even.

You know, she's a bear. 

[00:25:25] Zach: Yeah, that's kind of the, what I was trying to get at, or if I'm hearing you right. Um, cuz the delineation I'm trying to draw between these two dynamics is one is like these two things are keeping me stuck here. Like they're both pinning me to the bed. The other is like, if I get up, I will no longer be the buffer between.

My, my mom. And if the, if the bears represents all these like, antisocial, narcissistic, loner, isolationist qualities that have, you know, been growing in her mom, uh, maybe she's afraid that if she takes that final action to like, Cut her off or whatever that she's been talking about doing in therapy, that, that, that shit will just envelop her mom, you know?

[00:26:07] Olivia: Yeah. That's really interesting. It sounds like she has cut her off, but like I totally, because there's, that's, that's a situation that like, There's maybe always room for, um, for a change. Right. And it sounds like what Quinn has told her mom is that she needs her to go to therapy and make, um, specific change mm-hmm.

In order to, for her to be comfortable bringing her back into her life. Potentially. I, uh, at least if I'm reading that correctly, it sounds like there is a door somewhere. It's not open right now. Um, but, but yeah, I think you're correct that it's. That is not a final thing entirely. 

[00:26:51] Victor: One, one possibility that occurred to me is, um, so assuming that the, the mom and the bear are supposed to represent separate things, um, and I, I guess what I'm, what I'm.

Thinking is maybe this represents some sort of like intergenerational trauma or like maybe negative traits that Quinn feels they have as a byproduct of their relationship with their mom. You know? So it sounds like maybe Quinn is having other, other, um, interpersonal problems, right? Like, um, they're in a fight with their close friends or having some kind of conflict there.

And, um, so if Quinn has, um, things about themselves, That they see as negative traits, like maybe like stubbornness or any of those things we listed when we were running through the bear entry. I could see the argument of like, I feel trapped with this part of myself and I can't let go of that thing because uh, my mother is the reason I have that thing and my mother is not cooperative with like helping me get past this thing.

Feeling like, um, a relationship with her mother is what prevents her from. Maybe doing some self work. 

[00:28:03] Olivia: I'm gonna read this last part of Quinn's texts to me again. She says, I realized she was never going to change and I spent a lot of time in therapy, unlearning a lot of the trauma, generational, and not that she passed on to me.

So that I don't pass it on to my daughter, and if I want, if I wanted that to be effective, then she also needed to do some work. So I told her that to be in my daughter's life, she needed to be in therapy and make substantial progress in key areas. She doesn't feel that she needs therapy, 

[00:28:34] Victor: the. So that's an ongoing wound, I'm sure.

Mm-hmm. You know, that's an unresolved pain. Right. And I'm sure that that, um, affects her still, even if she's not in current contact with her mom. Mm-hmm. All right. Uh, I'm gonna roll into Google just to see if there's anything there. Um, to dream of google.com represents distracting yourself with something you were think.

Obsession or total interest in something you are thinking. It may also point to distractions, delays, or embarrassment. As you are so focused on what you want, that you are kept away from more important things negatively. Google represents too much time spent on an interest. 

[00:29:14] Olivia: Google is just a D h D, and Quinn has a, so 

[00:29:20] Zach: yeah, I mean, Google seems to be a stand-in for the entire internet, 

[00:29:24] Olivia: but, but.

Particularly like being too focused on an interest is such, it's like such a, it is an A D H D thing. It's a hyper fixation thing. And like, um, that, so Quinn is a, a new coworker of mine and like we've kind of connected on this. We both have a D H D and so we've talked about that quite a bit. And um, uh, hyper fixations have come up quite a bit as well, but I feel like.

Could really just be like a, an a d h D interjection into the dream. 

[00:29:58] Zach: Yeah. Could also be reflective of that conflict with her friends she was describing. Mm-hmm. Like they're, they're accusing her of being too hyper fixated on her move or whatever work the things that she has going on that's keeping her from like, Hanging out with them.

[00:30:12] Victor: Yeah. Can I hear the, the friend situation again with all this? We 

[00:30:16] Olivia: should get back into that. Yeah. Um, just seems like it's about the mom thing, but, okay. Uh, yeah, it 

[00:30:22] Zach: does. 

[00:30:24] Olivia: Let's see. Um, Quinn says, Yeah, so they felt like I pulled away. I didn't think so. I just got really busy at work and had literally no time, but it caused some tension in the friend group, and these are my best friends.

That's all I have about that. It sounds like they feel like she's, um, been distant and she. Has just felt like she's been busy and hasn't had time for, for the kinds of socializing that maybe they do. And I, I, I mean, I, she also has, um, a toddler, so that's also gonna take up a lot of time and energy. 

[00:31:00] Zach: It's pretty 

[00:31:00] Victor: important.

Yeah. Okay. So maybe the bear is the toddler uncooperative, 

[00:31:09] Olivia: selfish. She's wanting everything selfish. Yeah. 

[00:31:12] Victor: Possessive, overbearing, and unhealthy loner. Hmm. Yeah, I, I think. So Zach, when you were talking about, um, protecting one from the other, like what do you think that looks like? Do you feel like there's an urge to protect her mom from something like maybe an element of herself?

Or do you feel like maybe what, what, what are the two sides of that, that she's acting as the buffer between? 

[00:31:45] Zach: Um, well, I think it could potentially be a few things, but the example that came to my mind was, was, yeah, protecting her mom from, from herself, like mm-hmm. She wants her mom to get better so that she can have a relationship with the toddler.

But I, I feel like maybe she has a fear that, that, that if her mom doesn't make an effort to get better, she's gonna actively get worse because she's not even gonna have like her daughter and grandchild around. 

[00:32:10] Olivia: That feels like, yeah, like my first thought was like, she's a buffer between, um, her mom. Fully being enveloped by the bear.

Right? And, and I think that it's a really relatable place to be in where, um, in all kinds of relationships, I think everyone has been in this place where you really want somebody to change, um, because you've loved them and you wouldn't. You want the changed version of them in your life. 

[00:32:39] Zach: Um, yeah. And you'll go.

Out of your way to make it happen? Up to a point once it starts. Yeah. Um, giving you negative returns like I e like having an unhealthy impact on the child. Mm-hmm. Like there's, there's gotta be a line in the 

[00:32:53] Olivia: sand that seems to be like a lot of people's line. Right. Is, um, like I, I've, um, heard from people who like, Who have a child with somebody when they're in a relationship that's not working right, the line for them often ends up being, I don't feel great about how this is gonna impact my kid.

Now, when it didn't, like, hypothetically, it didn't feel like that much of a problem. But then there's this like new life that you care about more than 

[00:33:24] Zach: anything, right? Like I could grit my teeth. Weather this storm with you, but my kid can't. Yeah, mama Bear. Or maybe this dream is about that Hulu show. The Bear 

[00:33:35] Olivia: The Cocaine Bear.

Oh, the Bear The the Co. The cooking show. Right? The cooking show. Yes, chef. I haven't seen cocaine. Bear though. You seen cocaine? Bear? Is it 

[00:33:47] Zach: out? I don't know. I've just been seeing trailers. I don't know. I've just been 

[00:33:50] Olivia: hearing about it. 

[00:33:51] Zach: It looks fun. I don't know. Yeah, 

[00:33:53] Olivia: I heard it was 

[00:33:54] Zach: really fun. The cooking show the bear was not fun.

But that's cuz I worked in kitchens, so it was kind of stress, it was stressful. 

[00:34:02] Olivia: Um, well this might be one where, Ask Quinn for a follow up, unless you guys feel like, no, 

[00:34:09] Zach: I think we nailed it. We don't need to ask her any question. No, we should definitely like if we, if uh, if she has a response to this. Yeah.

Yeah. I think like, if, if this brings up stuff for her that she wants to speak to, affirmative or. Alternative to get at is Quinn.

[00:34:35] Victor: So how you holding up? 

[00:34:37] Olivia: Oh, I'm fine.

[00:34:41] Zach: I'm fine.

[00:34:46] Victor: All of you doesn't like to sit in one place for too long. 

[00:34:49] Zach: I know. Did you get your special. No. Is that, is that it? 

[00:34:52] Olivia: No, she's, no, but I, um, I, it's fine. I, when we're doing the podcast, I, I can't sit in a chair with my feet on the floor. Can't do it. Won't do it. I wanna die. Um, so when we're doing the podcast, because my special chair won't fit through the special door in this room, this, this building is not really built to code.

But we have this like skinny door to get into this area and my special chair won't fit. So I have a milk crate for my feet and I'm special, I'm a special girl. Speaking of special ed, um, my, my, uh, my Adderall worked for like three days when I finally got it and they told me, they were like, they had to prescribe me the xr, the extended release stuff.

And they were like, now be really careful. Like we really re. You need to eat before you take it. And if you have any trouble sleeping, like call us. Because normally the shit is stronger. Mm-hmm. And they even prescribed me like, yeah, they were like, we should like do a lower dose just in case. I swear to God, it worked for like three days.

Like mildly, but I have been hungry and napping and it's not working. It's not working anymore. 

[00:36:08] Zach: I know, 

[00:36:09] Victor: so, so there's this TikTok conspiracy that all the Adderall is like being watered down somehow, and just a bunch of people like. All at the same time saying, Hey, around the same time my Adderall stopped working as well.

Like it got a lot weaker. Mm-hmm. And, um, it's just weird, weird that a bunch of people are having that same experience at the same time. It's not 

[00:36:31] Olivia: just on TikTok. Like I've asked like four or five different people that I know are on, on, like ADHD medication who aren't on TikTok. Yeah. Just people in, in my.

All of them have said, every single one of them has been like, yeah, actually it hasn't been working for months. I just thought I needed to like get more, like re-up my dose or something. 

[00:36:51] Victor: All of you really like needs it every day or she has all sorts of problems. Namely 

[00:36:57] Olivia: sleep 

[00:36:57] Victor: paralysis. Yeah. She just like, she can't stay awake and then when she does sleep, she just immediately goes into sleep paralysis.


[00:37:04] Olivia: super fucking fun.

[00:37:17] Zach: I, I had a funny kind of, Lucid experience last night, like I felt an, an abnormal amount of control over my dreams. Last night I woke up from, at like five in the morning, um, from a nightmare, um, involving my girlfriend and like we were leaving a building and there were like all her exes. Were on the street and there were like, way more than there were, are in real life.

You know, it's just like this sea of like shitty exes. And they're like, they're all exhibiting different types of like, shit. Like ones this, like frail, like, um, jittery addict, and another one's this like hyper macho, like psycho. And they're all like trying to like, make amends with her. And I, and I'm like, let's just go, let's just, we're trying to get to dinner or something.

And I'm like, and as, as I'm. Trying to just get her out of there. They, they break into a fight and then there's like a, a riot amongst themselves and they start like murdering each other. Oh shit. And it was really graphic. That was the part that made it a nightmare was like, She was fine in the dream. I got, I got both of us out of there, but like, I turned around to see like, just like horrible violence and I woke up and then I was, I almost like, uh, texted her about it and then I was like, nah, I feel like that's gonna wake me up.

And I have like two more hours before my alarm goes off. So let's just go back to sleep and try again. Like I had the conscious thought, like, I'm gonna try to like continue that dream, but make it better. Uh, and then I did, I had, I, I went back to the dream where I'm with my girlfriend, but now we're like running errands together and I'm like giving her a piggyback ride and it's like adorable.

And it's just like, I woke up being like, no, good job, brain Good. We really turned it around in the second half there. 

[00:39:02] Olivia: Um, we came around in the third act. 

[00:39:04] Zach: Yeah. And there was a moment towards the very, very end in the dream where like, I think I woke up like one more time before my alarm went off. And then, um, Went back into a dream where I'm like in a city and it's daytime and it's really pretty like almost like Stepford wives, like Danny Elman, Edward Scissor, her hand's like overly manicured, kind of pretty, but it's like super bright out.

And I'm cognizant. This is like the lucid part. I'm cognizant that I'm dreaming and that it's like half an hour before my alarm goes off and I'm. Concerned that I know I'm dreaming. Cause I feel like that means I'm not getting as much rest as I could outta that 30 minutes. So I like find a, uh, like a little plot of grass that's surrounded by fences and I lay down and I'm like trying to sleep within the dream to get more rest.

[00:39:49] Olivia: Did it work? Yeah. 

[00:39:51] Victor: How'd you feel? 

[00:39:51] Olivia: Did that end the dream? I feel like that would end a dream for me. 

[00:39:54] Zach: Yeah. I think my alarm went off at that point, but, but I don't know what I was trying to accomplish. Like extra sleep. Yeah. I think I was trying to like, not be dreaming anymore, but not wake up. 

[00:40:05] Victor: What if that like, was like the way I, I know the like, uh, you only use 1% of your brain thing as bullshit, but like, what if it weren't, and that's the thing that like unlocks your big brain like superpower is like, oh, you have to sleep while you're dreaming.

That's the key wake, super genius 

[00:40:26] Zach: going to the next level of sleep. Like inception, 

[00:40:28] Victor: right? Yeah. It is weird. It is weird that you can like will yourself back into like the same or a similar dream. Like I, I find myself doing that too and then also sometimes I'll be like laying there and like half still dreaming, but then also like half knowing I'm in bed.

Like I can tell I'm waking up, but I'm also still like continuing in the dream some. All that feels very contrary to like what I think I know about dreams. 

[00:40:55] Zach: Yeah. Well you used to be pretty practice at Lucid Dreaming, right? When I was a kid. 

[00:41:00] Victor: Yeah. I don't feel like I do it as much 

[00:41:02] Zach: anymore because that was a thing when I got into it in high school, like the deliberate act of it.

One thing I would try to do and. Succeeded at a few times, but it's really, it was really tough to do was I've fall asleep by visualizing every detail of like one specific place in hopes that the dream would start there. That's smart. And it, and it happened a couple times. Remember once I, I was picturing a soccer field at night cause it just felt kind of like empty and simple.

It's like some bleachers. There's lines on the soccer field and the tree line is dark, so you can't really see what's out there. And I just pictured the soccer field until the dream started there. That's pretty 

[00:41:35] Victor: cool. It's like, uh, you're programming your own dream, uh, like itinerary. Plant it out 

[00:41:43] Zach: ahead of time.

Yeah, I can't remember where it went from there, 

[00:41:45] Victor: but, oh, I wanna get some soccer practice in, in my dream tonight. I'm gonna focus on that. 

[00:41:51] Olivia: That's kind of like what I'll do when I'm flying in a dream is like the only time I ever get loosed is if I fly, and sometimes I will see. The landscape from like an aerial view, and it's literally like a map of different like dream things that I could go check out.


[00:42:08] Zach: Like, uh, I don't like, like, like the topographical, uh, I don't know what to call it. I haven't played video games in so long, but like in Mario, you know, you see the world's. And, uh, 

[00:42:17] Victor: yeah, that's what I was picturing too. Uh, like a video game, uh, like menu, you're picking what you wanna drop into. 

[00:42:25] Olivia: Yeah.

Yeah. That's kind of neat when that happens. But it usually ha only happens when I'm leaving a nightmare. Is 

[00:42:31] Victor: it kind of consistent though? Is it like a dream, dream cartography thing where like it you have the same kinds of options when you're there? 

[00:42:39] Olivia: Yeah, that's the thing is like, that will, that is when I will stumble into like dream cartography stuff.

I'll, there's things in Seattle, like in the Dream Seattle, like I'll see the map that I'm familiar with in dreams. Um, like, I guess it's not like as, um, concrete as that, but it's like when I am lucid and flying, I will remember places that I've been before in dreams. And I'll go back to them and, and they're consistent between dreams from there.

[00:43:14] Zach: Yeah. I have that too, where they're like really consistent locations. Mm-hmm. And I have a, did I go back to over and over again and I have this feeling that they're fixed in relation to 

[00:43:23] Olivia: each other? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a, but I don't know how to prove 

[00:43:27] Victor: it. I think we've talked about this a couple times, but there's like a subreddit called dream choreography.

That's like the, the oral thing is people trying to map out their dream worlds and like how things are connected and see if they're connected to other people's dreams and it's cool. Yeah, 

[00:43:43] Zach: I'd, I'd be interested in exploring that. I think we have been down this. Road before conversationally. 

[00:43:48] Victor: I just like talking about it.

I'll just keep repeating it cuz it's fun. 

[00:43:52] Zach: But yeah, I wouldn't be interested to be part of that think tank. Contribute to the research. 

[00:43:57] Victor: Yeah. Yeah. It is weird that like, it, it seems like more than like, um, uh, characters or whatever, um, places seem to be the things that become like the consistent fixtures in dreams.

Mm-hmm. You latch onto a place like a house or you know, some. It, it's just interesting how like, the place symbolism is different than, um, like, oh, I see the same dog every time I dream, you 

[00:44:23] Olivia: know? Yeah. Oh, we, we've talked about before how like, sometimes when you're dreaming about your house, it's like different places that you've lived, um, throughout your life.

And like, I think Zach, you were hypothesizing that, that maybe that's an indicator of like, um, What part of you the dream is like connected to? Like based on, um, where you were in your life when you lived in that place? 

[00:44:52] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. Like if you're dreaming about a house you lived in when you were five or 15.

It, it we might be dreaming about an, an issue that started at that time. 

[00:45:03] Olivia: Yeah. I wonder, I wonder if there's like, there's probably theories about what that is about. I should look into 

[00:45:09] Victor: that. Yeah. We, uh, we should do more research for this ongoing project that we have going, we've this podcast. Yeah. We, we stumbled into, we've been leaning on one, one tool for like, A year, and then we, we tripped and fell into a second idea and we're like, oh, perfect.

There's two ideas. Now it's like we could probably do more work, but, 

[00:45:33] Olivia: uh, like, I wonder what that's about. That's a crazy thing. What is like people who's dedicated their whole lives to researching 

[00:45:40] Zach: this? It's funny. I do feel like I did more recreational learning about dream psychology prior to this podcast.

Because now it's like we do this and I'm like, oh, that's the research. That's right. Right. That's where I put that, um, hobby and interest. I do it here with you guys. Yeah, same. But it's not same. Yeah. It's not like we're reading books silently on the podcast. Yeah. 

[00:46:01] Victor: Yeah. We turn this podcast into a book 

[00:46:03] Zach: club.

That sounds like a whole lot of work. 

[00:46:06] Victor: It does, yeah. Network. I'm willing to. Yeah, just gonna keep not knowing what I'm talking about. That's the young and restless guarantee. I feel like 

[00:46:18] Zach: sometimes when I do do reading and then it like, it's a bummer. Like I feel like last time I did some research on something, I showed up to the pod, like turns out epic dreaming is a symptom of narcolepsy and livial was like, aren't warm.

[00:46:31] Olivia: But you were right though. It all made sense. 

[00:46:35] Victor: Yeah. I think we need stuff like that. How are we gonna, how are we gonna find out that this is actually a horrible mistake if we're not learning anything? That's what 

[00:46:44] Zach: learning's about, right? 

[00:46:46] Olivia: I think we figured out this was a horrible mistake. We're just into deep.

[00:46:50] Victor: Learning is really about regret. When you think about it, it's about teaching yourself to regret things that already happened. 

[00:46:57] Zach: It's about killing magic, right? And replacing it with regret. No, I think dream cartography is real. I think magic is real. 

[00:47:06] Victor: That's the other promise of this podcast. We will keep believing magic is real.

[00:47:11] Zach: Remain in a faith-based position. That's all right. Thank you for listening to The Jung and the Restless

[00:47:18] Olivia: You can follow us on social media at The Jung and the Restless Pod and submit your dreams for interpretation to The Jung and the Restless Pod at 

[00:47:26] Victor: Gmail. And as we always say, don't throw the bathwater out with the baby.

[00:47:40] Zach: For now, the clock is,

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