EPISODE

19. The Batman of Snakes

Zach has a dream where his sister tells him how she became the Batman of Snakes (and how YOU can…...

Zach has a dream where his sister tells him how she became the Batman of Snakes (and how YOU can too). Victor dreams about a dream about Olivia, and The Dream Team realizes that all of them have been dreaming about dreams lately- which seems to be a side effect of perpetually recording and talking about your dreams with your friends on a podcast.

0:00 Intro

4:01: Zach's Dream

45:00: Victor's Dream

About Dream Bible:

Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams.  Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.

http://www.dreambible.com/

Dream Bible entries used in this episode:

Snakes: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Snakes

Green: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=green

Teddy bear: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Teddy+Bear

Ice Cream: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=ice+cream

Batman: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=batman

Dreams: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Dreams

Library: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Library

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejungandtherestlesspod/

Check out our website for episode transcripts: https://thejungandtherestlesspodcast.com/

Submit your dreams for interpretation to thejungandtherestlesspod@gmail.com


Episode Transcripts

 [00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome to the Young and the Restless. I'm Olivia.

 [00:00:03] Victor: I'm Victor.

 [00:00:04] And I'm Zach. And this is the podcast where sometimes a cigar isn't, not, not just a cigar. 

[00:00:16] Olivia: There's just an ad on Dream Bible that says, turn off all ads

[00:00:35] Zach: It, it reminds me of, uh, there's a billboard in la. It's like tired of lawyer billboard ads. Just call so-and-so at, you know, attorney a law. I said, would, would you specialize in like taking down billboard? Like how is what, I don't need a lawyer. I'm just sick of these billboards.

[00:00:52] Victor: That's a good business though, is like putting up really obnoxious billboards with a number, like people can call to like contribute towards the fund of you taking the billboard down and you're just blackmailing people on their commute.

[00:01:05] Zach: It's a hostage strategy.

I like the one that's, uh, this one I see around here that's just white with black text and it says it's more of a public service announcement. It just says, this is your sign to stop driving high. Which I love cuz if, if, if you are high, that's like just clever enough to be like, oh whoa. It is literally a sign

[00:01:30] Victor: I feel like that's a distracting thought to put in somebody's head though when they're driving high. Yeah,

[00:01:36] Olivia: billboards are generally pretty distracting, I would say.

[00:01:39] Zach: I, I don't know. I don't know. They must work cuz they're like a whole industry in Los Angeles. There's, there's one intersection, where there, it's like a four, five or six way intersection and there are like six or seven billboards facing the center of it.

So no matter which direction you're coming from or. You see a billboard, but they're all bought out by the same movie studio, so it's always the same movie on all seven billboards and it's just like an assault. It's like a brute force strategy.

[00:02:11] Olivia: It's a lot. It must be expensive.

[00:02:13] Zach: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It must work cuz that would, that's a crazy investment on something that's like not market tested for efficacy.

[00:02:21] Victor: I feel like LA and New York, although I don't think they have a lot of billboards, but like LA is one of those places where like that works because the strategy is like, oh, well if something catches on here, then it's gonna get national attention, right? It's like you just need to get something to catch wind in LA and then you know the rest will kind of take care of itself.

[00:02:43] Zach: yeah. That makes sense. When all these movies are made here. So it's like, it almost feels like, um, like just, uh, like they're just telling you what's going on. 

[00:02:51] Victor: Yeah, it's like the people driving by in that billboard are actually people that you care about, like from an industry perspective versus just like some guy that might see your movie

[00:03:02] Zach: I always laugh when I drive by the one from the new Puss in Boots movie, cuz the cat has a sword that's going through the U and it looks like it says pissing boots. They should have hired me. I wouldn't have let that happen.

[00:03:15] Victor: just got really distracted by it. Like what a movie called Piss and Boots would be about.

[00:03:22] Olivia: Just a guy who goes around and pisses in people's boots causing chaos, and by the end of it, all of Los Angeles is on fire.

[00:03:31] Zach: but it's like a real serious, like crime procedural, like they're trying to figure out who's pissing in all these boots.

[00:03:36] Olivia: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:37] Zach: Could also just be a fetish born,

[00:03:40] Victor: sure. Yeah.

All right. Maybe let's get into Dreams.

Zach's Dream

[00:03:46] Zach: All right,

 I had a kind of funny one the other night, whereas in like an old house and I was trying to go to bed, and, uh, like I knew the house was full of people, so I, I didn't want to be like, disrupted from my sleep. So I was trying to like, lock the multiple doors, but they were all like coming off the hinges and stuff.

Like none of 'em would just shut. And like, as I was struggling with one, my sister barges in and she goes, quick name three hobbies that are green. And was like, and I like riddles. So my first, uh, my, my immediate reaction was like, okay, pistachio ice cream. And she goes, correct. And then I go, um, oh reptiles.

And then she goes, did I ever tell you that I am the Batman of snakes? And then suddenly I'm eating pasta. I'm like eating pistachio ice cream as she's telling me this suddenly. And uh, I'm like, what does that even mean? And she gets real defensive and she's like, it means exactly what it sounds like it means.

And then she like composes herself and starts to tell the story. She's like, so I was traumatized by snakes and like Batman, I've made them an emblem of my personality instead of, you know, shying away from them. And I like, am I start to see third person this story of her snake trauma. And she's like, she's dating this guy and they're in his living room.

It almost feels like a, like a movie set, like a manufactured living room. And this dude is like tall, lanky, skinny dude, kind of reminiscent of a snake actually. And his living room is just full of snakes. And, uh, he's not, he's not scared of him. They're like crawling all over him and he's like, you just gotta relax and they'll leave you alone.

But my sister's getting increasingly nervous and the snake, the snakes are like attracted to that. And they, so like a bunch of 'em start to lunge at her and she jumps on top of the couch and she's like, trying to get away. And then I jump from my third person perspective, like into the flashback sequence.

Uh, and I run and I just grab like the first thing to beat the snakes off her with, and it happens to be like a plush teddy bear that's, that's green. And I start to beat the snakes away from her. Uh, and I find if I get them all off of her and I realize that I'm holding a green teddy bear, and I'm like, that's the third hobby. And then I, I woke up and I was like, for half a second I was like, that was profound. And, and then, um, then I was like, I'm not sure if it was, I think I just, cuz I f like remembered that I'm supposed to find three green things. I don't know if that means it's profound, but I guess we'll find out.

[00:06:49] Olivia: Initial thoughts. You sometimes will have these dreams that like plant a seed and then come around and, and land on it again in a way that is like ties it up in a nice little narrative bow.

[00:07:04] Zach: Yeah. That's why this one stood out to me.

[00:07:06] Olivia: that's

[00:07:06] Zach: Cuz I always, I've, I always wake up feeling like, excited when that happens. But my, my feeling is that it's just like, yeah, I just remembered something, something incidentally connected to something I dreamt about earlier and then my, yeah. Storyteller kind of brain gets excited and like that's the, the, that's the callback.

[00:07:25] Olivia: The other . Thing is I think last week we talked about a dream you had about ice cream.

[00:07:32] Zach: Was that last week?

[00:07:33] Olivia: so.

[00:07:34] Zach: Ice Cream Dream?

[00:07:35] Olivia: Yeah. You had like, what's the, Sam?

[00:07:39] Victor: all right, Sam Elliot, right?

[00:07:41] Zach: Oh, yeah,

yeah, 

[00:07:42] Victor: chocolate ice cream . This time it was pistachio.

[00:07:45] Zach: yeah. That wasn't like a whole segment, right? That was just something we were chatting about.

[00:07:50] Olivia: but it was an ice cream dream. Um, and also I feel like the most important thing in this dream are snakes and green. 

[00:07:57] Zach: Those are definitely prominent symbols

and maybe teddy bear or like, yeah, Teddy bear,

[00:08:03] Olivia: I feel like green is like the root.

[00:08:06] Zach: Yeah. And also there was, um, pistachio ice cream in the freezer in real life.

[00:08:12] Victor: in life. Okay.

[00:08:13] Zach: And, uh, it was my girlfriend's and it, it's not vegan, it's real ice cream. But I woke up from this cream, this cream, I woke up from this dream with such a strong hankering for pistachio ice cream that I said Fuck it. And I broke vegan and I ate the rest of her ice cream.

And I, and I'm not even ashamed. It was so good.

[00:08:34] Victor: Okay. So you were hanging out, your sister busts in quizzes, you, and then after the first two questions, how do we end up with her boyfriend or in their apartment?

[00:08:46] Zach: was a flash. That was a flashback to how

[00:08:47] Olivia: he jumped into the flashback.

[00:08:50] Zach: yeah, it was a flashback on how she became the Batman of snakes.

[00:08:54] Victor: Okay. She was having a flashback and then you were like seeing it, but you weren't there and then you stepped into it.

[00:09:02] Olivia: It's a savior from the snakes also, I, I noticed that this dream started off as like a lack of privacy dream. Like the, I think classic lack of privacy. Uh, and like is like doors not working and like not being able to find like, I don't know, the bathroom dreams.

I'll, I'll have a lot of that usually. But then, and then it, your sister like kind of busted in

[00:09:25] Zach: Yeah, because this door, I noticed, I was like, I would shut one's. I would shut it and lock it, and then I would notice the other side where the hinges should be is also a doorknob, and that one's not locked, and the hinges have moved to the other side.

[00:09:39] Olivia: Classic dream shit.

[00:09:41] Victor: So to dream of a poisonous snake represents feelings about corruption or contamination. Snakes and dreams also tend to reflect a person's fear of total failure or serious losses. Feelings about a person or problem totally permanently ruining you. A dangerous or tricky problem you want to avoid.

Areas of your life that spoil everything associated with them. People that can't be trusted or that you feel are dangerous to not avoid. A snake could also reflect your own lack of integrity or deceptive behavior. Notice yourself being a quote, evil asshole. A snake may also represent a bad influencer, a person that you don't like. A person with. No family values. Family values. That's such a strange phrase.

[00:10:31] Zach: That's kind of how I felt about that boyfriend, that mystery boyfriend.

[00:10:35] Olivia: Oh, okay.

[00:10:36] Zach: like I said, he, he was like physic, physically reminiscent of, of the snakes, but I also just didn't like him in the dream.

[00:10:43] Olivia: The Batman of Snakes is kind of interesting though, right? Because it's like

[00:10:48] Victor: implying

[00:10:49] Olivia: that she like took what Snakes represent and like turned it into a superpower, right?

Is that what you felt like that meant? Can we read Green Next? Gr. I feel like green is like the root of this dream.

[00:11:03] Victor: Want me to skip right over Batman?

[00:11:05] Olivia: Yeah. Come back to Batman.

I wanna hear green first.

[00:11:08] Victor: Uh, green.

All Green, green, green, green. What were we talking about? Green The color. Light green. Was it light green?

[00:11:17] Zach: n no, I don't know. The teddy bear will pick. You can picture pistachio ice cream, right? Like that?

[00:11:23] Olivia: was everything the same color as the pistachio ice

[00:11:26] Zach: No, I guess not. The snakes were like a dark green, and the teddy bear was like a bright, like, like crayola cran that just says green. Like, just like your basic, green is green.

[00:11:37] Victor: And having Googled pictures of pistachio ice cream, I'd say that's pretty, that's a pretty light green, right? So it's like you got light and dark green,

[00:11:45] Zach: Mm.

[00:11:46] Victor: both existing in the stream because they both are represented in the Dream Bible entry for the color green. So we got light green, which represents healing.

When you see it in a dream, it reflects the removal of obstacles or positive change, progress, or moving forward with a problem. It may also represent psychological or emotional issues that you are overcoming. Light green may also be a sign that you are experiencing physical healing. Alternatively, lighter shades of green may also reflect jealousy, greater selfishness.

People commonly dream of light green when starting a new career or relationship, there is a sense of starting fresh or feeling renewed. Then we got dark green, uh, to dream of. Dark green represents some form of selfishness. When you see it in a dream, it reflects thoughts you are having that are only totally preoccupied with your own pleasure or personal gain, an area of your life or a thinking pattern where there is no concern for other people's feelings or wellbeing.

Dark green points to jealousy, creed, materialism, cheating, and not wanting to share with other people. Dark green can also point to powerful fearing fears of losing or thoughts of suicide. Dark green can also reflect growth that you feel is happening in the wrong direction. Slow progress, feeling prevented from finding a healthy outlet.

[00:13:10] Zach: Ah, so it is interesting that like the ice cream and the teddy bear were like lighter shades green and the snakes were dark.

[00:13:15] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:13:16] Victor: Yeah. And those were positive things and the snakes were negative and, uh, the boyfriend was negative and yeah.

[00:13:23] Olivia: Was the boyfriend green?

[00:13:25] Zach: no.

[00:13:27] Victor: did he feel green?

[00:13:28] Zach: You have a green aura?

[00:13:30] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:13:31] Zach: Um, no. Well, yeah, I don't know. He is, he wasn't like overtly menacing, but like, I just didn't like how blase he was about these snakes.

[00:13:42] Olivia: Right. And he said he looked kind of like a snake.

[00:13:45] Zach: Yeah. Not literally just tall and lanky. He uh, he 

[00:13:48] Olivia: No, I know exactly what you

[00:13:49] Zach: he's like

[00:13:49] Victor: but he 

[00:13:50] Olivia: people, 

[00:13:50] Zach: was like six foot four with a big Adams apple.

[00:13:54] Victor: he was connected to the snakes though, right? Like the snakes in him were kind of a package.

[00:13:59] Zach: Yeah. He, yeah. They're like his pets. He had like a, like, it felt like 50 snakes in his living room.

[00:14:04] Olivia: He was a snake

[00:14:05] Victor: Like he was responsible for the snakes your sister was putting up with, or not caring about the snakes. And then you were like, whoa, there's a lot of snakes around here. I gotta do something.

[00:14:14] Olivia: Oh, the snakes were attacking his sister.

[00:14:16] Victor: Oh, they were attacking.

[00:14:17] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:14:17] Victor: Okay.

[00:14:18] Zach: started, they started, to, when I, that's why I jumped in is cuz they started. She was trying to listen to him and like relax so they wouldn't attack her. But she couldn't help but get nervous. And that made them want to attack her.

[00:14:32] Victor: he didn't do anything when she was being attacked.

[00:14:35] Zach: He was like, he was basically like I told you not to freak out.

[00:14:39] Victor: Hmm. 

[00:14:40] Zach: I know. Evil asshole

[00:14:42] Olivia: asshole,

[00:14:44] Victor: Okay. So she had kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy thing going on, right. That's like her fear of the snakes is what provoked the snakes and then you had to step in. Okay. That's interesting.

[00:14:55] Zach: It was like when there's wasps and people are like, just don't move. And you're like, but there's a bunch of wasps

[00:15:02] Olivia: I wonder where that flashback would've gone. If you hadn't jumped in there and hit the snakes with a teddy bear, because presumably she championed the snakes and came out as the Batman of snakes, right.

[00:15:15] Victor: She never became Batman because you like stepped 

[00:15:18] Olivia: you intervened, you time traveled and

[00:15:21] Zach: Yeah,

[00:15:22] Olivia: the, the future.

[00:15:24] Zach: why I wonder what the, what the teddy bear is like, if that was

[00:15:28] Olivia: I bet Teddy bears and ice cream are kind of this teddy bears probably comfort, right? And like, um,

[00:15:33] Zach: Yeah, and it felt like it was her teddy bear too. Like it was a, a item from her childhood

[00:15:38] Olivia: oh, okay.

Her childhood. 

[00:15:41] Victor: So a teddy bear represents emotional dependency, a belief in something that comforts you, makes you feel safe, or gives you a sense of security and reassurance. Something, something that may scare you, depress you, or make you feel powerless if you ever lost it or had to give it up. Needing to feel good about having something at all times.

A teddy bear may be a sign that you're being needy, clingy, or dependent. It may also reflect a naive understanding of a person or situation you respect.

[00:16:09] Zach: Hmm. That, that's interesting. I, cause I have a ton of respect for my sister, and I did have kind of this feeling as I was beating the snakes away that like, I, obviously I have good intentions, but I feel like I'm like interfering, like I'm not supposed to be breaking into this, um, flashback

[00:16:28] Victor: And the ice cream. Sorry. Go ahead.

[00:16:30] Zach: I was just gonna point out that it's kind of funny that like the, the original question was name three, hobbies that are green, which is a funny wording, but then I proceeded to name three things that are not even hobbies.

[00:16:41] Olivia: Bud's my favorite thing about this dream.

[00:16:44] Zach: I scream reptiles.

[00:16:45] Victor: cream

[00:16:46] Olivia: tiles

and teddy

bears. Teddy bears,

[00:16:48] Zach: Teddy bear. Yeah, this teddy bear that I found on the floor.

[00:16:51] Victor: This teddy bear is a hobby.

[00:16:53] Olivia: That's the third hobby.

[00:16:55] Zach: Yeah.

[00:16:56] Olivia: I would argue that teddy bears are a hobby. You should have seen my room when I was a kid.

[00:17:03] Zach: Yeah. I guess collect, collecting reptiles, collecting teddy bears and making ice cream. Could all be hobbies.

[00:17:09] Olivia: or collecting ice cream.

[00:17:11] Victor: collect ice 

cream. 

[00:17:12] Olivia: does.

[00:17:13] Zach: like to, uh, like have some people over and like sh show them like my wine cellar. But it's a freezer, just full

[00:17:21] Olivia: He doesn't show it

[00:17:22] Zach: wall to wall.

[00:17:24] Olivia: it to himself.

[00:17:27] Victor: It's my

[00:17:27] Olivia: private collection , 

shame seller.

[00:17:31] Zach: a, what a shame seller. But you're not eating any of it. Like, like how wine people just have like, oh, this is a, you know, old world 19, whatever.

[00:17:47] Olivia: right?

[00:17:48] Victor: Yeah. This is a vintage ice cream from, uh, the seventies back when, uh, dryer was good or whatever. I

[00:17:56] Zach: yeah.

[00:17:57] Olivia: No, the ice cream gets eaten and replaced.

[00:18:00] Zach: got

[00:18:01] Victor: so if you're dreaming about ice cream, which we talked about last week, I think, um, Then it represents comforting yourself or habits You have to cheer up from a bad situation, something you're doing to make yourself feel better about something negative that has happened to you. How you choose to comfort yourself during a difficult situation.

So y Olivia called it that. Teddy bears and ice cream are both comfort, uh, various kinds, and they're both like, kind of unhealthy. Like the ice cream is, um, oh, you're doing this like, uh, indulgent thing to make yourself feel better from something negative. And teddy bears are like, you're getting comfort from being like clingy or overly dependent on someone or something. And then they were both light green, light green, green in the dream Bible, uh, represents some asshole and was pronouncing green. It represents healing or, um, removal of obstacles or positive change. So maybe it's like like having certain, uh, weaknesses or imperfections like human fallibility or whatever, um, coming up with a thing that is ultimately positive and good and healing for you.

[00:19:12] Olivia: What would you guess that your sister represents to you as a dream character?

[00:19:19] Zach: That's a good question. Cause as you were talking Victor, I was just putting together some things that, that could make this dream potentially be about something seemingly unrelated to my sister. So I'm trying to, 

[00:19:32] Olivia: That's probably true. I feel like that happens a lot of the time. Like I'll have people I know in real life fill in as like a,

[00:19:40] Victor: a

[00:19:41] Olivia: symbol for something else. And then the dreams that are about people in my life. Oftentimes those people are not even in the dream.

[00:19:49] Victor: Yeah. I imagine like, you know, you love your sister, you have a bond, you have like, um, a close relationship with your sister.

Um, and so this is probably representative, representative of some other close relationship or how you deal with close relationships or something.

[00:20:09] Olivia: Well look up sister.

[00:20:11] Victor: we could, yeah.

[00:20:12] Zach: Yeah.

[00:20:13] Olivia: See, let's see what Dream Bible says about Sister.

[00:20:16] Victor: took me to siblings. all right. To dream of Siblings represents an alternative or competing perspective. There's a negatively, I guess we could get into that, uh, because it's like you're, she was not negative, but like there were negative things happening to her.

[00:20:35] Zach: Yeah.

[00:20:35] Olivia: Hmm.

[00:20:36] Victor: We can also skip over it if it does not feel right.

[00:20:39] Zach: No it doesn't, honestly.

[00:20:41] Victor: okay. Yeah, skip it. Um, all right. So positively a sibling may reflect confidence, hope, or someone with more experience than you, a better idea than yours.

[00:20:50] Zach: Yeah.

[00:20:50] Victor: If you have,

[00:20:51] Zach: funny cuz it's something else. Or I forget if it was snakes or what it was said something about someone you respect and this is saying someone, what did you just say

[00:21:01] Victor: Yeah, a s uh, positively a sibling may reflect confidence, hope, or someone with more experience than you, a better idea than yours.

[00:21:10] Zach: that resonates?

she's my younger sister, but she, uh, I feel like is further along than me. She's kind of like crushing it in life, you know what I mean? Um, and so like as a symbol and a, that's kind of what she symbolizes to me. If I had to boil her down as a dream symbol is like

[00:21:28] Victor: Like a, someone that's got life figured out at least better than you do in a way.

[00:21:33] Zach: yeah, an intelligent, driven, well adjusted something to like aspire to.

[00:21:40] Victor: Yeah. That makes sense here. Right? So it's like maybe there's some aspect of your sister that, um, You are either seeing in yourself or like wanting to see in yourself something aspirational. Right.

[00:21:55] Zach: Which is why the, the whole like beating the snakes off thing, like that's a good big brother impulse to have, but it feels. I don't wanna stop her from becoming 

[00:22:04] Olivia: Yeah. 

[00:22:06] Zach: cuz she's a badass now. So I don't wanna fuck up the timeline.

[00:22:11] Olivia: Yeah. And she told you she told you that ahead of time, right? Like that? Yeah.

[00:22:17] Zach: And like this event had already happened. She was telling me how she became the Batman of Snakes and I'm like, intervening. Mm. And in her story.

[00:22:25] Victor: Right. So you can see she's fine. Like she, she made it, she persevered or whatever, but you still like

[00:22:32] Zach: Yeah.

[00:22:32] Victor: into it. Yeah.

[00:22:34] Zach: Okay. So this, this is playing into my, first impulse on what this dream is about. 

[00:22:39] Victor: Do you feel comfortable sharing that or do you wanna keep it to yourself

[00:22:42] Zach: yeah, I'll go ahead. Um, it involves my girlfriend, so I'll just clear she's a very open book kind of person, so I think she'll be fine with whatever I say. But yeah, there was another thing in one of the entries I already forgot.

I think it was light green about something new and uh,

[00:23:00] Olivia: I said something about a new

[00:23:02] Victor: healing something that's positive? Um, physical healing, psychological or emotional issues that you were overcoming progress or moving forward with a problem?

[00:23:13] Olivia: or was it snakes that had something about a new relationship? Something talked about a new relationship.

[00:23:19] Zach: yeah, but everything you just said about light green also resonates with the new relationship thing. Um, cuz yeah, we've been dating for Four months now. So it's still like early on. Uh, but it's going, uh, awesome. but there's, there's some stuff that, um, she's working through like in therapy and stuff like just in her life that has to do with past traumas and it comes up a lot.

And, I feel like she's in a period of like accelerated growth and healing and recovering from those traumas. not just because of this new relationship, but I mean, she's in therapy and like doing the work and everything, but like I can tell it helps. I can tell she's told me that it helps to like have a new healthy, good relationship to feel safe talking about these things.

so. You know, we've been having conversations about that. and she's been telling me about the conversation she's having in therapy about that. And this kind of feels like it's, it's about that the, cause the snakes, I won't get into what her trauma is cause I, that's not mine to divulge, but the snakes feel very emblematic of that.

They're a shitty ex-boyfriend. Like, definitely feels super emblematic of that. all the talk of like growth, healing, new beginnings. not to mention that was her pistachio ice cream that I was eating. like, like this is actually tying together pretty neatly for me. But that's why I was like, why my sister though , like, if this is about, if this dream is about my girlfriend, then, but, but I guess my sister could be more a reflection of, of me then. 

[00:24:56] Olivia: yeah. Isn't everything in there is like a reflection of you,

[00:24:59] Zach: Well, yeah. and stuff that's on my mind. But

[00:25:03] Olivia: But like, I mean, that's what we've been doing with the Gestalt, um, thing, right? Is that like the theory that each thing in your dream is just a part of you.

[00:25:14] Zach: that's true. And if I were going to just start this, the, um, I mean this is why I think it's helpful to, to like do a combination of, um, tactics. Cuz if you, if we'd tried to just assault this out of the gates, I would've maybe gone with the snakes to take, to adopt the perspective of, but now I think like my sister would be a better place to start.

Cuz I think her role in this dream was like that of like a shepherd. Like she's walking me through, you know, she barges in, presents this like riddle or question and then she's like, did I ever tell you about how I became the Batman of snake? Like, she's kinda like walking me through maybe how I should handle, you know, this delicate situation or the, the del the delicate conversations around trauma with this new partner.

[00:26:01] Victor: Yeah. Yeah. And like, you've, you've expressed on the podcast, like you, you took a, a long break from dating Right? For a while. Um, and so you were both coming into this thing, um, with your own baggage. Right? Um, and so it makes sense to me that like if, if the pistachio ice cream or like if the ice cream and the teddy bear represent maybe like some, some like unhealthy habits or unhealthy coping mechanisms or like, you know, like behaviors that, you know, could, could do to, to change or grow over time or whatever.

It's like that's normal what to, to. Human beings, right? That everybody's got their own stuff, right. Um, but it's like maybe like an understanding of like, oh, I need to change. In some ways she needs to change in some ways, but also we are growing and healing and, and coming in like making each other better and, um, both benefiting from this thing even though maybe they're like stumbles or, you know, um, old, old habits, you know, popping up,

[00:27:04] Zach: Yeah, and there's a like even jumping, intervening and like fighting the snakes myself in an event that has already happened, which is the definition of trauma , like that, that feels really poignant. That cuz I do

[00:27:17] Olivia: what I was gonna say. Oh, go

[00:27:19] Victor: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:27:20] Zach: Yeah. Cause I feel like that's, yeah. May, uh, maybe another thing with someone might like, as I feel compelled to just fix, fix, fix, and,

[00:27:28] Olivia: Yeah, that's literally what I was gonna say is like, as you were Victor as you were talking, is that, um, the idea that like if your sister represents a shepherd or like someone who's like, let me show you how I became the Batman of snakes, and, and what that means is look at this thing that I.

Accomplished on my own that I worked through, that I, um, that I did. And your impulses to like, um, jump in. Right? And the, and then in the dream you had the thought of, I shouldn't, that's not what I, that's not my role here. so like

[00:28:07] Zach: but I couldn't help it and my weapon. I mean, it was just the first thing I grabbed, but the, my weapon was literally like nostalgic comfort. Like something you

[00:28:18] Olivia: And it's comfort in something that, uh, teddy bears, right? Is like comfort in some, like an unhealthy coping mechanism. Is that what it is? Or what did

[00:28:27] Victor: like a clinginess, right? Oh,

[00:28:30] Zach: Yeah. Which is interesting cuz I think, I think this dream did come off the heels of a conversation cuz we're, we're, our relat relationship is a long distance currently. and, you know, speaking, uh, you know, what you were saying a second ago, Victor, about like old patterns and habits, I felt myself, last week-ish, or two weeks ago, maybe, um, maybe demanding more of her tension than I should have.

I was, I was feeling really strong separation anxiety. Uh, and then we had this whole like follow up conversation about it where I was like, I really don't want you. You know, get off work and think like, oh, I better immediately text Zach, or he's gonna have a meltdown. Like, I don't want that dynamic. I don't wanna be co-dependent and I don't wanna be clingy, which is a word you just used.

So I think his dream is very much related to that, like wanting to do things right and healthy and with, without any maladaptive coping strategies.

[00:29:27] Victor: And that those things are still coming from like a, like a, like a positive place, right? That like, no, nobody here is trying to do harm or take advantage of anybody. Like it's just like

[00:29:39] Olivia: asshole,

[00:29:39] Zach: Yeah. Except the joker of snakes.

[00:29:43] Victor: Which is not every relationship is like that, right? Sometimes the, the unhealthy stuff that's happening in a relationship is happening because someone wants, uh, an unequal partnership or wants to take advantage of somebody, not the situation you're in. Right? Uh, which is why I think that all this stuff is dressed up in this, um, light green, this healing, right, of like, maybe stuff is coming up, right?

But like you guys are working through it, you're figuring it out. You're, you're getting, you're getting healthy together.

[00:30:11] Zach: and the whole, yeah. The whole, whole conversation around trauma and like, you know, she's, is, is healing and like making great strides, but that's all like, all I can do is be there for her. Be like patient, you know, I think is like the, the message of the Batman of Snakes.

[00:30:26] Victor: Which, uh, speaking of I think the Batman entry, uh, is, is ready for us, to dream of. Batman represents, uh, confrontation with overwhelming adversity, with superior intelligence or resources always having a perfect solution, blah, blah, blah. The part that I thought was interesting, alternatively, the dream is a sign that there is some kind of wrongdoing that you feel the need to rectify, which you spoke to is like, you know, feeling like this thing that already happened.

You still feel like an impulse to try and fix and, um, that's totally relatable, right?

[00:31:01] Zach: Yeah,

but you can't just un, you can't just like control Z on a traumatic event.

[00:31:06] Victor: yeah. And also like, you know, much as in the dream, like your sister who you love is there saying, Let me tell you the story of how I became the person I am. Right? It was a negative thing that happened. And in the same way, like, um, part of, um, who your partner is, is connected to this experience, right? You can't just like undo or unmake parts of who they are or what their journey's been, right?

That's not your place. It's to be there with them who they are.

[00:31:37] Zach: Yeah, that's, yeah, that's very interesting cuz I, I think like any dream, like first instinct is to like, try to relate it to just me, especially when the person that it may be about related to. Cause I, I, you know, I think this is about, um, my girlfriend but also our, our relationship. So, you know, I'm part of that.

but when that person like isn't even in the dream, it's interesting to. Find that puzzle piece that like makes the rest of the dream make sense.

[00:32:03] Olivia: Mm-hmm. . That's happened to me a lot of like in this podcast with you guys, right? Like I've had several dreams that have been about a situation between me and another person. And never once has that person been in those dreams, not one time. Um, which is why I always come into this and I'm like, I got a wacky one for you guys.

Like this has gotta be about me. And it's not. Um, but, but like, it's interesting. I feel like the people I don't think I've ever had a dream about a person that I can remember that was like, about a situation with a person that featured that person. 

[00:32:42] Zach: Right.

[00:32:43] Olivia: My brain reaches elsewhere for symbol.

[00:32:45] Zach: Yeah. Especially cuz, I mean, this one is, I figure it, it's prescriptive, like it is coming off the heels of these conversations about, you know, what she's, what she's piecing together in therapy. And then also our conversations about like how to, you know, manage a long-distance relationship, uh, in a healthy, um, non neurotic way. so it feels, uh, yeah, prescriptive in, in, in the, in the way it was framed by my sister in any advice that she was giving me or that I was giving myself through her.

[00:33:20] Victor: Yeah, it's maybe a part of yourself, like telling you to. Treat or like to be more like your sister or how you would imagine your sister is in, in a relationship, right. Of like, I imagine that she's like someone that you see as like independent and, um, you know, self-sufficient. Right? And so like, maybe if you're feeling like a part of yourself that's, um, that's like not doing that.

Sometimes it's like this is, this is a thing inside you that's like saying that you, you can, you can be whole and also be in a relationship, right?

[00:33:56] Zach: Yeah. Cause there's obviously that self-awareness there from past experiences that tells me I don't want to be this, in this type of relationship that is like avoidable. If you have that self-awareness.

[00:34:08] Olivia: it's really good that you're in a place where you're seeing that and talking about it with your partner. Because most relationships, I think, um, In any area that you're not talking about a thing, you will just fall into a pattern around that thing. And it's super easy for it to be like the wrong pattern.

Um,

[00:34:32] Zach: and I mean, you'll, you'll talk about the thing, but it won't be about the thing.

[00:34:36] Olivia: y exactly, yeah. So like, calling it out for what it is and like, and then saying, I don't want this dynamic. there's like accountability there. And, you're both gonna be like, you've brought to light a thing that you're like really wanting to avoid. and it's hard because there is some impulse to fall into that pattern, right?

Like, there's a part of you that wants to clinging to this person that you love, that you want to spend more time with, that you want to hear from. You obviously want that, right? But it's like, um, that's what makes it hard is that. That's why people don't bring it up is because it, they want to be able to just do that thing.

So it's, I think that that's a really good place to be in.

[00:35:23] Zach: Yeah, I felt pretty good about, even though like last week or whenever it was when we were having these conversations, they're not like fun conversations that you want to be having. You want to be like joking and laughing and smiling, but they were better. Um, I mean they, they all took the shape of like, Hey, I'm feeling this way. Um, I need to talk about it . You know what I mean? Like, I didn't do anything clingy. I just told her I was feeling clingy and like, feeling intensely and feeling intense. Separation anxiety and like, you know, sadness about the distance and that, that's not fun to talk about, but it's a better starting place than just like acting on your feeling.

[00:36:03] Olivia: Yeah. And I, I think that's the main thing though, right? Is that like, um, people just don't talk about it. So like, that's like the best place to be is like, when you're feeling a certain way to talk about it. Because I think the problem is that people instead just act on it, and, and it, that's how you fall into the unhealthy pattern, right?

[00:36:26] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. And I think this is the same self-awareness and strategy applies to the trauma conversation

[00:36:32] Olivia: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:33] Zach: like there, there's an impulsive, you know, heroism or cavalier or whatever you wanna call it, to like fix a wrongdoing that you can't go back in time and fix. But like, much, much like the, the get getting through, uh, these rough patches of, of any relationship, but, you know, long distance. In my case, what it requires is like patience and consistency and communication, which is, something that I would expect to find in a, a, a figure like my sister or what I think she embodies in this dream.

[00:37:10] Victor: You said something about, um, like an anxiety about, um, the distance or, or something that, uh, I have found, I guess just speaking about anxiety generally is that like I, anxiety will come up for me. I will feel anxiety, and then my brain will say, oh, you're anxious. Why are you anxious? And then it'll conjure up justifications for the anxiety that I'm feeling.

My brain will start to gravitate towards reasons why I would be feeling anxious. And it's taken like work and self-awareness to get to a place where, At least some of the time I can catch that and be like, no, I think I'm working backwards from anxiety into thinking that there's a problem and like acknowledging, okay, I can feel that I'm experiencing anxiety, but like, that's not the thoughts I'm having or just a product of that they're not actually that there is a problem.

It's just like anxiety's come up. Now I'm searching for a reason to be up and be like bothered by something. I'll grab onto anything that's there.

[00:38:18] Zach: Yeah, 

[00:38:19] Victor: And uh, like I, so I can see, you know, long distances can be really tough, right? Um, and so I can see that becoming, uh, an attractor for that, like a focal point where your brain will like, gravitate towards that when anxiety comes up because it's just a target, right.

And it's just like a way to explain the feeling.

[00:38:39] Zach: Yeah, exactly. We were talking about that actually when she was, she, she was here recently. and I was telling her that like, cause I think the clinical like description that I've seen of, uh, anxiety is a sense of impending doom. Like that's the lang, the language they use on like Web MD to describe anxiety.

Uh, so if you have like this like just overwhelming feeling of dread that something bad is going to happen, but there's nothing bad about to happen that you're cognizant of, your brain goes to crazy places. Um, which historically for me has been like hypochondria, but I've had that for so long since childhood.

But I still have like crazy intrusive thoughts about um, health stuff. But I've done so much C B T and stuff to like deal with it that I'm kind of a ninja now at being like, I see you cancer thought, but I have no symptoms of cancer, so I'm going to, I'll come back to you if I start shitting blood or something. Um, but right now you're just an intrusive thought. Um,

[00:39:41] Victor: That's exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. A perfect example.

[00:39:44] Zach: yeah. And so that's where I want to get with like, cuz when we are apart, like especially as the weeks drag on, uh, I'll have generalized anxiety and I'll be like, well, Shelby hasn't talked to me in like three hours. I know she's hanging out with her daughter, but she probably hates me. She probably never wants to talk to me again.

Um, that's probably why I'm so anxious. Um, and that's. It's so much easier to treat it like the hypochondria like cancer thought when she's here. I can just look at her and see that that's not true. Um, but when that person's physically not present, you have to like a little more work to, to get back to reality.

[00:40:23] Victor: Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:40:24] Olivia: This is a good dream, Zach. Yeah.

[00:40:27] Zach: Yeah.

[00:40:28] Victor: When you were telling it, I was like, oh, this is wack. It's a wacky dream.

[00:40:32] Olivia: The wacky

one. Yeah, 

[00:40:33] Victor: it's a fun one, but no, there was, there was stuff there,

[00:40:37] Zach: Yeah. Not

[00:40:37] Olivia: seems to be stuff

[00:40:39] Zach: and not the stuff. , there's always stuff there and not the uh, not the stuff I expected to be there either. I'm just, I'm just, I'm pretty happy that this wasn't another fucking work dream.

[00:40:52] Victor: I appreciate that you.

[00:40:53] Olivia: um,

[00:40:54] Victor: We're willing to talk about it cuz like partway through reading the entries, I felt like , oh this is, this is about his relationship. But I didn't wanna like say that. I didn't wanna throw that out there, but I was feeling that and so

[00:41:07] Zach: no, I'm comfortable with all the relationship cause the relationship is going really well. It's been way healthier and like, growth oriented than anything I've been a part of,

[00:41:15] Victor: no, that's really great. And um, yeah, I'm sure that, the step trauma stuff is like, Kind of overwhelming Right. In some, because it's like hard to know what you can or should do. Right. When someone is dealing with something like that, it's like, it can make you feel kind of 

helpless. 

[00:41:35] Zach: keeps telling me, cuz she has like explicitly said, like, what's helping her grow by leaps and bounds currently from like healing, healing from the trauma stuff is having like a stable, healthy, reliable, good thing, like good relationship in her life like this. So the, yeah, the best I could do, or what I should do in relation to the trauma stuff is just keep on that trajectory and not like,

[00:42:03] Olivia: Yeah,

[00:42:04] Zach: keep us on this, this growth oriented trajectory.

And, and so the, those, the, the trauma conversation and the like, anxiety conversation are related in that.

[00:42:12] Victor: I will say that's something that me and Olivia have talked about in our own relationship is like, you know, we, we both, had like, our own like, Dating history and her own problems and her own stuff that kept coming up in past relationships. And, um, something about our combination, like, um, what I do for her and what she does for me is, uh, just being, being in a relationship with somebody that is like, um, respectful and, um, that genuinely cares about you and someone that you respect and genuinely care about.

And you have like a mutually supportive relationship if you've like, experienced like, dysfunctional stuff in the past and that has affected you and maybe affected like your, your sense of self or whatever it is. So healing to just, um, be in a relationship with somebody that, um, treats you like a person, you know, that seems like a low bar, but like

[00:43:06] Olivia: just gonna say, the bar was set real low.

[00:43:09] Zach: Yeah. Which is why the like impulse to jump in and fight the snakes is like noble, but it's like, uh, you know, I'm, I'm turning these snakes into my own bat signal, like I'm working through it. You just keep being you. Like, you just keep being this safe place for me to become a badass, I think is what my sister was saying in this dream that is like applicable to my current situation 

[00:43:33] Victor: that is like one thing that a healthy relationship should be is like, it shouldn't be like this thing that totally consumes you. It should be like the, the safe healing, rejuvenating place from which you can go out and be yourself and be your own person and grow and change and learn and whatever.

You know? Um, it doesn't need to swallow you up. It, it's just like a part of.

[00:43:58] Zach: why you're her, her dream clippy.

[00:44:01] Victor: Right, exactly. I have a supportive role. Yeah,

[00:44:05] Zach: But you have a dream about Olivia. 

[00:44:07] Olivia: We'll find out what I am in Victor's

[00:44:10] Victor: Yeah.

[00:44:10] Zach: Yeah,

victor dream

[00:44:12] Victor: I don't dream about you, much at all, at all. The little dreaming I've done. You're, you were, you were not in my dreams. I just doesn't come sometimes, sometimes you are, but you're rarely like a, like a presence in my dreams.

Sometimes it's, That, that I know you exist and that we are in a relationship and that I love you, but it's not, um, you're not a character a lot of the time.

[00:44:55] Zach: not even 

[00:44:55] Olivia: What's this dream gonna be about?

[00:44:57] Zach: not even in his sex streams.

[00:45:00] Olivia: Yeah. 

[00:45:01] Victor: Um, so we've got, uh, okay, so it's,

[00:45:06] Olivia: it

[00:45:06] Victor: is kind of a twofer, right? Okay. So, uh, there was the first part of the dream, I titled it Double Wife Dream.

[00:45:13] Zach: Double wife Dream.

[00:45:15] Victor: Yeah. The first thing 

I don't know how much the first thing ties into the second thing, but when you hear it, you're gonna think they're definitely connected. Okay, I'm just gonna start reading it. Um, so before the main dream, uh, I had a dream that I was out to dinner with Olivia and she was flirting with the waiter.

And then when I confronted her about it, she broke up with me.

[00:45:39] Olivia: Oh,

[00:45:41] Victor: I, this, this had nothing, like this is totally forgotten in the dream that came after, but it was just like, yeah, that, that was a little, a little mini dream that I had. And I, I remember that happening before this other dream that I had.

[00:45:54] Zach: Jesus, Olivia.

[00:45:55] Olivia: it's the prequel

[00:45:59] Victor: All right, so the, the real dream, I dreamt that I could show my dreams to other people and that it wasn't strange or unusual. And I had digital copies and I found an old dream and I watched part of it with Olivia and it started as like simple paintings. And they were three scenes that we watched together.

I don't remember the images all that clearly. Like the specific images I remember, it was pretty, it was enjoyable to watch. it felt like it had kind of a loose narrative, right? Um, but the specifics of the dream within the dream, I do not remember that clearly. But I remember something like a forest, um, and I remember that the dream was about Olivia and then Olivia and I stopped watching just before we anticipated it would end, right?

Cuz it felt like it moved through three scenes and it felt like it was wrapping up and it was like, okay, this is where we stopped. Uh, and then privately I watched on my own, what I wrote here is I wanted to make sure it didn't go anywhere dark. I was like, yeah, I remember watching it and I was worried that like, maybe it would take like an embarrassing or negative turn right at the end.

And I wanted to like check it and make sure that like, that wasn't. The case. and then what I saw when I kept watching it was it actually went on like a lot longer than we thought it was going to. It didn't end in like, what felt like the third act. It just like kind of kept rolling. and it got like more complex and more detailed and like more beautiful as I kept watching it. and I thought that was cool and I was excited to surprise Olivia with it cuz I was like, oh, we thought it was this, but it's actually this much more extravagant thing. And then, um, 

[00:47:41] Olivia: okay. 

[00:47:42] Victor: wrote the meaning of the recorded dream that was apparent was about how much I loved Olivia and the links I would go for her.

The different scenes were me like following her through various extreme places, right? So it was like symbolic of me, like, you know, I would walk, you know, 500 miles or whatever, you know, it was like, I was like, On this track of being with Olivia. And then at the end, Olivia and I planned to show, um, have we used these names before?

[00:48:15] Olivia: Yes.

[00:48:17] Victor: Okay. Um, so we planned to show our friends Tim and Hannah, um, and we all met in a library.

[00:48:23] Zach: Tim's name isn't the title of one of our episodes.

[00:48:26] Victor: Oh, okay. I forgot about that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's right. We did a whole thing.

[00:48:29] Olivia: we did a whole thing with

[00:48:30] Victor: He's put out, I'm sure like five more albums since the last episode.

[00:48:34] Zach: Jesus, that guy's prolific. Yeah, he is 

another 

[00:48:36] Victor: He just keeps, churn 'em out,

[00:48:37] Zach: Check out his new, his his new ambient thing that just dropped. Pretty sick

[00:48:42] Olivia: Yeah. I love that.

[00:48:44] Victor: Uh, okay. So we were gonna meet them in a library. and then like, the idea was like, me and Olivia were going to show them this thing that we found like it was gonna be fun. But then my secret was like that it was gonna keep going and it was gonna be a surprise for Olivia too. And so I was like, oh, this is gonna be fun.

[00:49:02] Olivia: that it keeps going. And it, and it's like a positive

[00:49:05] Victor: Yes. It kept going in Ga like Yeah. In a positive way. Yeah. and that was it. Like, I don't think we actually showed it to them. It was just like, we were in the library and it was something we planned on doing. Like we were just kind of hanging out. It had like a, like a teens hanging out in, uh, like an abandoned library kind of energy to it.

Also,

[00:49:23] Olivia: Tim and Hannah are the people. We just show things to

[00:49:26] Zach: Mm-hmm. you go to the Breakfast Club,

Is that it?

[00:49:29] Victor: Yep. That's the whole, the whole deal.

[00:49:32] Zach: Two first impressions are, I can't remember if we did a segment on it or not, but I had a dream recently where I could record dreams.

[00:49:38] Olivia: really.

[00:49:39] Zach: Remember? I, I, they, they, but mine were like recording to vhs and they had, and they had like a creepy liminal quality to them.

[00:49:47] Olivia: yeah. You just did talk about that.

[00:49:50] Victor: It's ringing a bell.

[00:49:51] Zach: I

[00:49:51] Olivia: thought that was him talking about his dream. Uh, But that was you. Yeah.

[00:49:56] Zach: Yeah, that was, I think a couple episodes ago I was talking about having like this really creepy, like VHS technology that recorded dreams and the everything in between. The dreams you remember is just empty liminal space, like the back rooms.

[00:50:09] Olivia: Oh, and I also had a dream that this aura ring could transcribe my dreams and that, uh, it titled one of my dreams, fart Heim.

[00:50:18] Zach: oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:20] Victor: Yeah.

[00:50:20] Zach: I feel like,

[00:50:21] Olivia: feature

[00:50:21] Victor: doing this.

[00:50:22] Zach: and

[00:50:24] Olivia: we're getting to meta here,

[00:50:25] Zach: has anyone had this trope in their dreams before doing this podcast? Cause I, I feel like that might be a reflection of like, thinking about recording dreams.

[00:50:34] Olivia: I think it is. I think that's, I think that is just a byproduct of doing what we're doing here.

[00:50:41] Zach: Um, oh, and my other impression was that you're right, I do feel like those two are related, but I'm not sure how yet

[00:50:47] Victor: Right.

[00:50:48] Olivia: Is there a Dream Bible entry for dreams?

[00:50:52] Victor: Good question.

[00:50:53] Zach: dream of dreams,

[00:50:54] Victor: Is there a Dream Bible entry for the Dream bible?

[00:50:57] Zach: to dream a little dream.

[00:50:59] Olivia: The dream of dreams.

[00:51:01] Victor: Okay. So dream does pop up. To dream that you are dreaming represents a realization that something in your life wasn't as serious as you thought it was. Positively. This reflects worries that are overblown. You may have been afraid or concerned about something and a life situation proved that you were overreacting a negatively, a dream within a dream can point to disappointments, letdowns, or something you thought was wonderful, not turning out the way you thought

[00:51:28] Zach: Well that's not, 

[00:51:29] Olivia: that's 

[00:51:29] Zach: that's not applicable because the dream kept getting prettier and uh, better. And also everything in the positive section tracks for me right away, cuz I feel the first dream was like, like you were saying, an insecurity thing Like we're talking about with my dream, like this anxiety, this like pinning a sense of doom on just like the most ludicrous made up situation that Olivia would like leave you for a waiter on, on a fucking whim.

Because you were Yeah. And then the, and then like the next part of the dream is like this, like epic love tale. Like it feels like your brain did a 180 cuz it realized how dumb the first thing was.

[00:52:05] Olivia: To Dream of A Dream is represents something that you, in your life that wasn't as serious as you thought it was, but the dream that you were watching, the recording. You were afraid it was gonna turn dark, and so you turned it off. That's the fear that something was serious, and then you kept watching and it was not dark.

And that's it being not as serious as you thought it was.

[00:52:30] Victor: I actually, I don't, I didn't turn it off. I think you turned it off.

[00:52:33] Olivia: Oh, okay. That's

[00:52:35] Victor: that wasn't a thing I was worried about, uh, when we were watching it together. But then after you left and it was just me and the recording, I was like, I just want to know everything that's on here just in case.

Yeah. Came from like, maybe like, if this is like a dream about sharing dreams, right? I like you guys probably, um, uh, empathize with this, but like, there's, it's a, it's a vulnerable thing. There's a little bit of an anxiety of like, oh, is this gonna say something negative about me? Or something that I don't want to like show other people or whatever.

[00:53:11] Zach: I think we, I think we can all relate.

[00:53:14] Victor: yeah. and so maybe that is reflective of that, of like, oh, is this like, is this thing going on in my brain? Is this like a negative thing, bad thing? 

[00:53:25] Zach: So wait, so Olivia never saw the rest of the recording.

[00:53:29] Victor: No, she never did.

[00:53:31] Zach: Oh, that's tragic.

[00:53:33] Victor: Yeah.

[00:53:34] Zach: that's a really, uh, that, that trope in like storytelling always, always gets me, gets my heartstrings. That trope of like this profound display of um, like one's true feelings or whatever, but the person they're attending for doesn't even see it.

It just lives in a vacuum.

[00:53:52] Victor: Yeah.

[00:53:53] Zach: That's very, that's like the, one of the sadder episodes of Futurama.

[00:53:57] Olivia: man, I mean,

[00:53:58] Victor: we're

[00:54:00] Olivia: mushy over here. . I'm in the vacuum with him.

[00:54:04] Victor: I remember waking up being sad that I couldn't like, convey, um, what I saw in the like, dream within a dream cuz it like, I remember just being like struck by like how beautiful the, like imagery was, like moving through it.

[00:54:20] Zach: you like describe it? Is there a way to.

[00:54:23] Victor: It like, it's one, it's one of those things that like quickly faded from my memory. Unfortunately. I just remember it as like, kind of like, like abstract landscape kind of stuff, but like, done very interesting way.

[00:54:33] Zach: I was just picturing like the animation for midnight gospel.

[00:54:38] Victor: Oh yeah. That's a good show. Yeah.

[00:54:40] Olivia: That is a good show. Well, so what do I represent in this dream? If, if not just me?

[00:54:49] Victor: like,

[00:54:49] Olivia: Maybe we should look at it the way we were looking at Zach's dream, because you don't dream about me. Right.

[00:54:55] Victor: true. Very often. Yeah.

[00:54:57] Olivia: So it's just interesting that, um, there I am

[00:55:01] Zach: Yeah. Well, the first, the first one feels like it's a, about that fear of like, Well, if I, if, if like something bad or even just mildly annoying is happening and I speak up about it, it's gonna get a million times worse.

[00:55:14] Victor: Hmm. That's interesting. Yeah.

[00:55:17] Zach: So that could be about anything

[00:55:19] Victor: Yeah, it did feel like, like I, I unleashed the, like that the reaction from you of like, you know what, I'm done. Kind of, kind of like attitude towards our relationship by like, it

[00:55:31] Olivia: You like said something about the waiter

[00:55:34] Victor: Yeah, yeah. It was like that, there was like, something didn't sit right with me about how you were interacting with this guy, and then I asked you about it, and then you had like a, like a, I can't remember exactly what your reaction was, but it was basically landed on like a, this relationship isn't working for me.

Like, we're done

[00:55:54] Zach: I can't flirt with anyone, that crosses my periphery.

[00:55:57] Victor: no, I think it was just like, well, I, I will say, very happy and, um, we don't, we don't have a lot of problems in our relationship. Like we're, we're, we're solid, but I am an anxious person, and so when my anxiety does like drift towards our relationship, it's usually just like, you know, she could just fall outta love with me. that could

[00:56:21] Zach: those intrusive thoughts that I was just describing,

[00:56:23] Victor: Yeah.

[00:56:24] Zach: um, they 

feel very real 

[00:56:26] Victor: have 

to. Yeah.

[00:56:28] Zach: before you grapple with them. They feel very real.

[00:56:31] Victor: And this, I guess, felt like that, it felt like a, you just falling out of love with me kind of

[00:56:36] Zach: But like Olivia was saying, it could be not about her. Like could be something else you're worried about, um, fucking up by, by virtue of standing up for yourself or.

[00:56:47] Olivia: or like, I don't know. I,

I feel like

an important moment is me asking to turn off the thing, not wanting to look at the rest of the video. I don't know. My first thought there is like, is that about like a fear about the future?

[00:57:02] Victor: Hmm.

[00:57:02] Olivia: That, that was my, my gut feeling about that is that it feels like the rest of that video is like a projection of the future.

And like there's maybe like a fear. About what's on there?

[00:57:18] Zach: Just in, in general, like your future together or just like Victor's future period.

[00:57:24] Olivia: I don't know. Like that, I have no idea. Uh, um, I don't know. Does that feel like it means

[00:57:29] Victor: anything? I, so I disagree. I will, I will explain kind of how it feels to me, um, is. It felt like, we both thought we were done, like, like that. We had watched everything worth watching. It kind of felt like turning it off, like just before the credits roll, you know? Like we both thought like, oh, that was nice.

We felt like it was done. We were turning it off, and then you left. And then I was like, you know, there's just like a little, little bit of the, I'm just gonna make sure that this doesn't keep going. You know? And I think that like, you choosing to turn it off, is less relevant than like me being left alone with it.

I think that that maybe represents, like, I think that, um, you know, I, I, um, can be like down on myself sometimes, or like, kind of like, uh, self-loathing sometimes comes up for me. And so I think it represented the part of myself that was like maybe afraid. That I would see something, uh, about myself that I didn't like.

Um, 

and I, I looked into it.

[00:58:38] Zach: sorry. I think we both got the impression that was being turned off, out of fear that, uh, something dark was coming up.

[00:58:45] Victor: Yeah. No, I think that, um, when it got turned off, we both felt like it. That felt totally light. There was no, there was no fear, there was nothing there. But after you left, then the thought occurred to me of like, I need to make sure that we did see everything, that there wasn't something wicked, you know, in my mind or whatever that, um, that like was on the tail end that like you, you would see later or we would show to other people or whatever.

So I think it was like, that was like a little bit of like a self-loathing, little bit of like a self-consciousness, self anxiety focused thing. And so I explored it. I was like, I need to make sure there's nothing on here. And then like, I'm like, I guess it could have gone the other way. Like I could have been like, oh, this turns very dark, or whatever.

It could have turned into a nightmare, but I was surprised by, we're not surprised, like, but I, um, what I got was actually, no, this is just like, uh, this is deeper than what we thought we had. This is, um, a, a re reaffirming of like depths of love and care and commitment or whatever, you know?

[00:59:55] Zach: But you didn't feel compelled to be like, Hey, Liv, come back. Look at.

[00:59:59] Victor: No, I

didn't feel like I needed, but I wasn't, I was like, excited for you to see it, I guess. Yeah. I, I felt like that you would be, um, happy to see it. I, I was perceiving it as beautiful, right? I thought it was one thing, but it's actually so much cooler than what it was.

It's like if you like started, uh, watching a movie that was like, oh, it's like a simple animation or whatever, and then you get like 15 minutes into it and it like grows into like some like, uh, really intricate, vast, intense like, uh, technical spectacle or whatever. It's like, whoa, you gotta get past the first 15 minutes.

Right? And then it really gets going, right? So it felt like me and Olivia had seen the first 15 minutes of like some, some like epic thing, right? And so I was like, I get to surprise her with how cool this turns out to be.

[01:00:48] Olivia: Mm.

[01:00:48] Zach: It's very different from the first dream, but it still feels related somehow.

[01:00:53] Victor: I'm gonna read something not connected to this dream, but relevant to me as a guy that doesn't dream.

There's a no Dreams entry and the Dream Bible. So I'll read that

[01:01:04] Olivia: I like how we talk about you as the guy who doesn't dream, but since we've been doing this podcast, you've been dreaming plenty

[01:01:11] Victor: Oh. So let's see what this says about me. Um, up until like, you know, a few months ago when I started dreaming, no Dreams, If you don't have dreams, there may be two reasons for this.

First, you may not have any psychological issues that are important enough to trigger a dream. If this is the case, you are probably a very honest person who lives very responsibly, hardworking, honest parents with stable lives often fit into this category. You may be a very trusting person who doesn't experience a lot of drama or fear and, uh, just not gonna read the second part.

You guys don't need to hear the second possibility. I think like that's for sure what it is, right? It's like I just really have my shit together

[01:01:56] Olivia: wrong.

[01:01:57] Victor: Okay? So part two, Uhhuh. A second possibility for having no Dreams may be a Vitamin Deficiency caused by a number of factors that are reducing your body's ability to make or use exce. Which is the main nutrient used by the brain to create dreams, to learn about vitamin supplements you can take to increase dreaming. It's recommended you visit the dream enhancing page, and there is a link.

[01:02:23] Olivia: Dream Bible

[01:02:25] Victor: It's trying to sell me supplements, dream

[01:02:27] Zach: I am just trying to sell you supplements.

[01:02:31] Victor: this whole thing's better

[01:02:33] Olivia: to a dream. Zach had

[01:02:34] Zach: Yeah, which, which has not aired. We need to,

[01:02:37] Olivia: Oh, we need, we do need to

air that one. That's such a good one.

[01:02:40] Zach: we'll, we'll figure out a way to just like, maybe we can record an episode around that pre-recorded segment.

[01:02:46] Olivia: Okay, so let's see.

To Dream of being in love or feeling love represents a situation in your life that feels good all the time. You may be experiencing newfound success or financial security. 

To dream of being in love with someone you are involved with in real life can reflect both your feelings for that person or your strong attachment and acceptance of a personality trait you have Become comfortable.

It may also reflect how good you feel about something that is happening to you

[01:03:17] Zach: Okay.

[01:03:18] Olivia: of being in love with a family member.

[01:03:21] Zach: Weird.

[01:03:21] Victor: go on.

[01:03:24] Olivia: can reflect both your feelings for that person or how much you like something that is happening to you. Okay, The love entry is a lot like the sex entry actually.

[01:03:37] Zach: Yeah. May maybe even more straightforward. Cause it kind of seemed like if you're dreaming about the person you're in love with, then you're in love with them.

[01:03:45] Olivia: Yeah. Um,

[01:03:48] Zach: waiter

[01:03:49] Olivia: yeah, let's do

[01:03:50] Zach: because I, I know it seems like a small detail, but so did Batman in My Dream and it and it hit to dream of a waiter or waitress represents an aspect of your personality that caters to others' needs. You were someone else that is doing what someone else asked them to.

Doing the work for someone else or helping when asked negatively. Dreaming about a waiter may reflect unpleasant feelings about situations where you are regularly taking care of others'. People's needs, others' people's needs feel

[01:04:17] Olivia: is a lot like the oral sex entry.

[01:04:19] Zach: it is feeling like a loser who, who make other people's lives easier?

[01:04:24] Victor: That actually, um, I think,

[01:04:27] Olivia: think,

[01:04:28] Victor: I think the waiter thing connects in a way that I'm like, like almost uncomfortable to talk about , but like, I think that, um,

I do feel like a resistance to. Saying no, when you express like a, like a want. 

And 

um, maybe part of that for me is coming from a place of feeling like saying no to something is gonna like, you know, damage our relationship or, or whatever. And that I think has to do with just like my own, my own stuff.

You know, like my own hangups, my own, like my own like go to therapy stuff. Right? Um, and so like, it does kinda make sense of like, if the waiter represents like my impulse to like be ac accom, like always be accommodating, right? It's like, well what you're attracted to or interested in is that. And then when I like push back on that, you like lose interest

[01:05:31] Olivia: that makes sense. This is something we've talked about too, 

[01:05:34] Victor: that kind of makes sense. 

[01:05:35] Olivia: Yeah.

[01:05:36] Zach: That, that, that tracks with the idea that like, you know, everyone in the dream is you, so you're you, you're you, the waiter. Is that part of you that like, feels like he has to cater to people's needs and then Olivia is the fear of, you know, what could happen if you

[01:05:50] Victor: If I don't, right. Yeah. I think, I think, yeah. That, that connects

[01:05:55] Olivia: okay.

[01:05:56] Zach: then the second half,

[01:05:58] Olivia: Yeah. Let's use that to leapfrog over to the other dream here.

[01:06:04] Zach: because it does

[01:06:04] Victor: And again, like

[01:06:05] Zach: the mood of the second half to me is like 180 from the first.

[01:06:09] Victor: Yeah.

[01:06:10] Zach: It feels like 

almost like a course correction,

[01:06:13] Victor: I will say again, like, it felt like two separate dreams. Like I had that dream and then I slept for a while, and then I had another dream and I happened to remember them both. And I do not remember thinking about or remembering this at all in the second dream.

[01:06:28] Olivia: so I think like,

given

the anxiety that you've just expressed, and our conversation earlier about anxiety, like,

[01:06:36] Zach: like an anxiety versus a legit, legitimate concern.

[01:06:40] Olivia: The second dream was like kind of a reaffirming, the strength of our relationship or like the love that we have. 

[01:06:49] Victor: Yeah. I, I think that, the dream within a dream, the thing that I, um, that we watched together and that, um, then I watched the rest of it. Right. Um, I remember like

Being like surprised that, I, I guess I was like, yeah, I, I, it, it felt like love or like, it felt like our, our relationship in some way.

It felt like love and my connection to you. And I remember I was surprised by like how much was there, essentially. Like it got me off guard and then I was excited to show it to you. yeah, so I think that it, um,

 Like I think, um, I experienced like, oh, what if there's something ugly, like underneath like the surface level, uh, love or whatever that we looked at together. And then what I found was there isn't, there was just more love than I had imagined could be there.

[01:07:42] Zach: And it's interesting that it was like a digital, like you weren't watching a dream within a dream, just magically like it was a recording,

[01:07:51] Victor: Yeah.

[01:07:51] Zach: you know, like proof of something. Uh,

[01:07:55] Olivia: Which you were then gonna show to be to people, right?

[01:08:00] Zach: yeah, here says to dream of recording, which there was, there were a lot, there were a lot of like video, a lot of re related terms that I could have used. But like, I scroll down a recording cuz you know, we had mentioned how like we're recording this podcast and that seems to be like maybe a catalyst for having these types of meta dreams.

Um, but to dream of recording represents feeling feelings about something being perfectly noticed or remembered in detail, feelings about feelings, ideas, or behaviors being. Repeatable behavior. Um, and I did,

[01:08:33] Olivia: interesting.

[01:08:34] Zach: you know, just piggybacking off the like dynamic that I theorized about a second ago where like, you know, you're you and the waiters, this other part of you and Olivia's this fear of yours, that does track with her leaving for that second part of the, of the recording, if she's like this fear of something happening in this case that that fear would go away.

As you experienced the proof of this, like profound reaffirming love

[01:09:03] Victor: Yeah. That's interesting.

[01:09:05] Zach: that's, you know, just a fury playing off. Like, I don't know if like symbols retain their, you know, meaning throughout it, it's well into a separate dream.

[01:09:15] Olivia: Yeah.

[01:09:16] Victor: I totally, I totally see what you're saying. I, I guess it's just like, um, my experience of it in that second dream. I, I, you both, um, In a couple different ways gone, like angled towards like that being like a conflict moment or like an anxiety moment. But I didn't experience any of that when I was with Olivia.

It was when I, it was when I was alone with my own dreams. Right. Or my own subconscious. Right. It was, it was when it was like me and myself, that's when I experienced, and it wasn't, it wasn't heavy, it wasn't a lot. But like what drove me to take a second look was a fear of like, well maybe there's, you know, something, something bad about me, like buried in this thing that I don't know about and I need to know about it.

Um, so it felt less this dream or that part of that dream felt less about like a fear about, um, my relationship with Olivia or my relationship with other people and more to do with like my relationship with myself. Yeah.

[01:10:25] Olivia: Yeah. I feel like there was another dream recently that we talked about the one with the like deflating version of you, the ghost and the ghost entry was talking about like, past traumas or like repressed memories or something like that.

and like if this part of the dream is about like dream analysis and the vulnerability of like coming on here and like talking, like looking at your subconscious is not necessarily about like the podcast as much as it's about like looking inward, like um, that's come up for you a couple times, right?

[01:11:05] Zach: you experienced, or you expressed a couple episodes ago, or maybe even last episode, like a, I don't wanna use the word resistance, but like an apprehension about going to therapy.

[01:11:14] Victor: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's, that's accurate. I don't, I don't know that it's, that I feel resistant to, uh, I, I get to because I feel like I engage in self-reflection a lot.

[01:11:27] Zach: But to bear your 

[01:11:28] Victor: that my

[01:11:28] Zach: people is

[01:11:29] Victor: Yeah.

[01:11:30] Zach: beyond that.

[01:11:31] Victor: Right.

[01:11:32] Olivia: it is a different experience for sure.

[01:11:36] Victor: I understand the therapy is valuable and I understand that it does a lot of good for people. And what I, I get all that and I don't, I don't believe the thing that I'm gonna say, but it's how it It's how it feels.

[01:11:51] Zach: It's how it's been described to me in the Scientology book 

[01:11:54] Victor: just feels like a profound waste of time to me. Like I would experience it as a profound waste of time.

[01:12:04] Olivia: It's like, it's funny because I feel like lots of people say that, and they're coming from a really different place than the place that you're coming

from. Like you, you hear, uh, like I hear people all the time, like, especially like, especially like dudes,

[01:12:23] Zach: Mm-hmm.

[01:12:25] Olivia: but

like, 

[01:12:26] Zach: think they're too smart for therapy.

[01:12:27] Olivia: Yeah.

Or that it's like, yeah, like, why would I do that? I don't fucking need that. That seems like a waste of money and a waste of time. But like, that's not, like, I, I understand that that's not where you're coming from with that. Um, but like the place that you're coming from with that,

[01:12:45] Zach: I mean, depending on your therapist, it could be a profound waste of time.

[01:12:49] Olivia: that's true.

[01:12:49] Zach: and it does take some time, a lot of the time to find the right fit.

[01:12:55] Victor: I will, I think for me it's that, you know, like I, I spent a lot of time like wallowing in like thinking about like, you know, bad things that happened and, you know, bad, bad experiences or whatever and like wallowing in the therapy stuff. And that was like how I spent a lot of time in like when I was like an adolescent.

Right. No, that was like, that's what followed me around in like middle school and, and into high school. Right. Was like just thinking about how like bad things happened and life has not been fair to me or whatever. And going to therapy feels. Okay, we're just gonna, like, I've, I've come to a place where I don't feel like I'm constantly like, wallowing in negative stuff.

And it's like, oh, okay, I'm gonna sign up to go and do that like once or twice a week or whatever. And it's like, I feel like I am past needing to do that, or I've spent so much time doing that, so much time, like, like wallowing and sucked into like self-reflection and thinking about, thinking about, thinking about, and it's like, I just don't, I just don't wanna sit there and talk to somebody about all that stuff.

You know?

[01:14:12] Olivia: I hear that. I think like I think there's a really big difference between

[01:14:17] Victor: a

[01:14:18] Olivia: a child.

Quote unquote wallowing in like the bad things that have happened to them. And doing therapy like that. It's, it's really not that. I think literally every person could benefit from therapy if they go to it and, and do it, you know, do the work.

[01:14:38] Zach: Yeah, I would go even if my life was perfect, just cuz

[01:14:42] Olivia: it's really good. Like

[01:14:44] Zach: but if, but if my life was perfect, that means I have the money for therapy.

[01:14:48] Olivia: right? but yeah. it seems like you, Maybe your resistance to looking at that stuff is about a fear of what's going to come up and not knowing what is in there. Um, and like this dream . Was maybe, a reflection of maybe you don't know what's in there. Right. But it's not necessarily gonna be this like, horrible thing that's gonna like,

[01:15:16] Zach: No, to me it felt like it was about having proof that it wasn't

[01:15:20] Olivia: right.

[01:15:21] Zach: place.

[01:15:22] Olivia: Well that's what the dream was, but I guess I'm just saying that like, this dream is like potentially a simulation of looking inward. And, um, a possible scenario of that is that, There's other stuff in there it's a positive thing to look in there. Um,

[01:15:40] Zach: Yeah. My ma macro level like feeling of this stream at this point and tell me if I'm like way off base or whatever is that, and, and this is probably just cause we were just talking about like anxiety and the, you know, pinning that, that feeling of impending doom on something crazy. The first one feels like it's, you know, simulating that anxiety and that process of like, um, you know, reaching for something to, to blame your anxiety on.

And that the next one is what you're saying, Olivia. It's about like actually examining it and, coming to like a grounded place where you have a clear, like understanding of, of the reality of things, which is not whatever you were catastrophizing about

[01:16:24] Olivia: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. That feels, that feels right. Not that it was my dream, but does that feel right, Victor

[01:16:32] Zach: That really resonated with me.

[01:16:34] Victor: Yeah. What she said. Uh, yeah. No, I, I, I think that's true. I think they're both, um, angles at, um, me grappling with, it's like, um, the first dream is a thing in me that needs to be examined. And then the second dream is about examining things that need to be examined, right? Or like, maybe my resistance to doing that.

The second dream is about the thing that, uh, made me have the first dream, or, you know, things in that category of like, stuff I need to, stuff that I would benefit from working on.

[01:17:18] Zach: And you're not just saying that because you're catering to us and you're afraid to say no.

[01:17:22] Olivia: Yeah. Does that really fit?

[01:17:24] Victor: What if I was, no, that, that, It does feel true. I mean, it seems obvious, but like the dream within a dream, it was like a, like a looking inward, being anxious about what I was gonna find and then 

it went in a blissful direction of like, oh, this is a good positive, like, happy thing I found, you know? Um, I will just cuz I'm curious, um, and I'll read it out loud cuz I'm feeling generous. Uh, I'm gonna read the library entry because, uh, that, that has stuck with me. Something about like being in this dark library at the end,

[01:18:01] Zach: I forgot about the library detail.

[01:18:03] Victor: feels

[01:18:04] Olivia: the restricted section in this

[01:18:06] Zach: That would've been, that would've been funny if you were like, I'm, I'm now gonna read the library entry and then just silence. As you.

[01:18:15] Olivia: That's a bit, you should start

doing that

[01:18:18] Victor: Yeah. I'll start.

Uh, to dream of a library represents a search for answers, knowledge, or ideas. You may be questioning some area of your life. Be curious about something or looking for new ideas, a person or area of your life with a wealth of knowledge, a store of knowledge. You always feel that you can depend on feelings about needing to learn a lot about something you were doing in waking life.

Feelings about yourself being a very studious or a total geek All right, well, that's may, maybe that's what the dream's

[01:18:50] Zach: redneck Willy Wonka. 

[01:18:52] Victor: Dreams of libraries are common to people trying to learn a lot about parenting.

[01:18:57] Olivia: Huh.

[01:18:58] Victor: A messy or disorganized library may point to frustration or horrible preoccupation with finding the answers you want.

It was just a normal library, kind of dark, 

yeah. so it's like kind of a dream about introspection. I think that does feel true. Yeah.

[01:19:15] Zach: yeah. It could be still about the, the, you know, about the podcast , like, like not just, um, the framework inspired by doing the podcast, like we were saying, but like the coming to a place where it's maybe less scary to, to share public.

[01:19:33] Olivia: I'm starting therapy sometime in the next few months, probably. But I'm just thinking about how often I'm gonna go in there and be like, set this dream . Like, and then I'm gonna come back here and be like, so my therapist says this dreams about

[01:19:50] Victor: It's a new segment, therapy corner. Yeah. With what Olivia's therapist had to say 

[01:19:55] Olivia: Yeah. We'll bring, bring my therapist on the pod.

[01:19:58] Zach: Yeah, it's not a HIPAA violation. 

[01:20:00] Olivia: We saw on John Oliver the other night. They have this like practice dummy for therapists and training 

[01:20:07] Victor: it's got like a digital face that's supposed to like show human emotion and um, then it talks at you and um,

[01:20:17] Zach: It's

[01:20:17] Olivia: It said, I ride the bus. Nobody talks to me. I'm gay.

[01:20:24] Zach: that's a dream client. It just tells you exactly the heart of.

[01:20:30] Olivia: I know that's a great starting place. 

[01:20:33] Victor: Let's talk more about the bus.

[01:20:37] Zach: Um, yeah. Is I wonder if you could just go to like chatbot and be like, Hey, will you pretend to that I'm your therapist 

[01:20:50] Olivia: It's just chat.

GTP

[01:20:52] Victor: Yeah,

[01:20:53] Olivia: be your therapist,

[01:20:54] Zach: No, I mean, to be a practice client, like if you ask it to embody a client and

[01:21:00] Victor: want

[01:21:00] Olivia: try that right now? 

[01:21:02] Zach: You should ask it to interpret a dream sometime.

[01:21:04] Olivia: What Victor did.

[01:21:06] Victor: Yeah. It was really like reluctant to do that. It never wants to do anything fun. It's always like, oh, that would be unethical,

[01:21:19] Zach: Uh, sounds like that lame friend we all have. It's like, oh, I don't want to trespass. I think you're too drunk to drive.

 Thank you for listening to The Young and the Restless. You can follow us on social media at the Young and the Restless Pod and submit your dreams for interpretation to the Young and the Restless Pod at Gmail.

And as we always say, you can't make an omelet without skin, without skinning a cat, a cat.

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