18. Tossin’ Noodles

The Dream Team talks creepypastas, then Olivia and Zach throw spaghetti at the wall about a Victor dream involving a…...

The Dream Team talks creepypastas, then Olivia and Zach throw spaghetti at the wall about a Victor dream involving a slide that wasn’t as fun as it initially seemed to be. The dream bible can be a little problematic and somewhat unhinged sometimes. Zach’s dream about an ice cream cowboy sparks a discussion about indecision, depression, and gender stereotypes. 

0:00 Intro

8:37: Victor's Dream

47:48: Zach's Dream

About Dream Bible:

Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams.  Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.


Dream Bible entries used in this episode:

Slide: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=slide

Sliding: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=sliding

Video Games: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Video+Games

Gay People: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Gay+People

Ice Cream: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Ice+Cream

Chocolate: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=chocolate

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejungandtherestlesspod/

Check out our website for episode transcripts: https://thejungandtherestlesspodcast.com/

Submit your dreams for interpretation to thejungandtherestlesspod@gmail.com

Episode Transcript

18. Tossin’ Noodles

[00:00:00] Zach: Welcome to The Jung and the Restless I'm Zach.

[00:00:03] Olivia: I'm Olivia.

[00:00:04] Victor: And I'm Victor. And this is the podcast where, what's in the oven is Doom


[00:00:28] Zach: I had a super creepy dream the other night where we, and we've talked about like this hypothetical technology before and how cool it would be to be able to like screen record your dreams. Yeah. And I had a dream that I successfully invented that. And I went to watch the tape of my dream from within the dream from like the night before.

And it was like on VH s just to add to like the creepy factor apparently. And then it was like it was a full eight hours. So it wasn't like how we expect dreams to be where it's like, you know, intermittent or whatever. It was a full eight hour tape. But most of the stuff in between the like, action of dreams happening was like, have you seen the backroom on YouTube?

[00:01:14] Victor: No, I heard that. Uh, that's gonna get turned into like a feature length thing though, right? Heard the teenager that directed it is gonna like, make an actual movie. 

[00:01:23] Zach: Now I, I, I thought that that was a joke or a rumor, but that would be cool. It's pretty interests, it's pretty interesting. I mean, it's just based on the idea of um, like liminal spaces.

Is that the 

[00:01:33] Olivia: like office space, dream Corps Yeah. Stuff. Yeah. 

[00:01:38] Victor: Okay. I've seen that. I'm not entirely sure 

[00:01:40] Zach: through reality. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not sure all the ways in which it's been, cause I know it's kinda like a video game. Right? But it was also a mm-hmm. Arg. I don't know. 

[00:01:48] Victor: I don't know. I don't know all the different shapes it's taken, but I, I thought it started out as like a, like a creepy pasta kind of thing.

[00:01:56] Zach: Yeah, well, like clipping through reality into the, into the, these back rooms. Right. At the very least, it's a, it's an aesthetic , you know what I'm talking about? And that's what it, like most of the in between dream was, was just like empty liminal space. And I'm sitting there watching this VHS tape, like on the edge of my seats.

I'm like, something's gonna happen. It's just like silent emptiness. And I couldn't handle it. I turned it off. I was like, this is too creepy. 

[00:02:22] Olivia: Oh, that was super creepy. Yeah. The idea of it being like, Stuff that you don't remember. Like , like one time I downloaded an app that records you when you sleep and it just like records if you sleep talk.

Right. Because I was curious and we were listening back to it and it was so fucking creepy. I like, I didn't wanna listen to all of it because it was just like, it was like the recording was just 10 different recordings of me talking that I don't remember. And it just 

[00:02:53] Zach: starts when it hears you, right? Yeah.

[00:02:56] Olivia: The weirdest part though is that, um, apparently I do this in my sleep a lot. I'll be like,

[00:03:07] Zach: Well, you dream about your pets all the time. It's probably you train out. I think 

[00:03:10] Olivia: I'm kissing the cat. I think I'm like smooching. The, the cat sleeps on my face. . I think I'm just like . But it's creepy when you hear it and you know that you 

[00:03:19] Victor: were asleep. Didn't a pet psychic tell you that? Uh, Andy loves the kisses.


[00:03:26] Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. Actually, um, it was one of your old clients, Zach, at over at our old, um, place of work. Uh, she just random. I didn't realize that this person was a pet communicator, but she just randomly was like, oh, I know who you're talking about. Yeah. She, she just randomly was like, I have to tell you, your cat wa he wants you to know that he loves, like when you kiss him on his mouth, like, I didn't want you to know that I 

[00:03:54] Victor: do that with tongue

Was that the same person that, uh, what did they say about Casper or dog? Yeah. 

[00:04:02] Olivia: They said, our dog is not going to rocket science school. Mm-hmm. You know him And at the time I thought Pretty's a smart boy. But then we got an actually smart dog and I realized, I thought you were gonna say, then you got a rocket.

He's not going to rocket Science School, . 

[00:04:17] Zach: Was that person, like pet communication was their primary thing, or No, 

[00:04:22] Olivia: it was, um, it was not that, that was not the thing. I, I was surprised that they even did that because 

[00:04:27] Zach: everybody there did have like their primary instrument and then they were like, oh, by the way, I also play fucking, I'm also chakra.

Yeah. Realignment, whatever. Especially our 

[00:04:38] Olivia: boss. Yeah. . She, she was the master of all, none . 

[00:04:45] Zach: Yeah. I was trying to look up, because that's another, going back to recording herself while you sleep and creepy pastas. That's, there's a really good one out there of somebody that did that. And then they heard like she was sleeping in bed with her like three year old son and heard a third voice on the recording.

[00:05:01] Olivia: No. Yeah. You know what I'm about? No. Thank you. 

[00:05:04] Victor: No, but I, I love that concept. That's great. I hate 

[00:05:07] Olivia: that. I mean, I love it, but I hate it. Yeah. If 

[00:05:09] Zach: you wanna get real creep up and you're like, you know, laying in bed one night and you're like, I don't wanna sleep. You should find that one on Reddit. Because the recordings are pretty spooky.

[00:05:20] Victor: Oh, there's like actual recordings that 

[00:05:21] Zach: come. Yeah, she, she posted 'em on Reddit to, for to, for people to help her figure out what it was. I think the, the most grounded consensus was that somebody broke in. You can clearly hear like the little boy say something and then another voice if you like Listen, close enough sounds like it's saying go back to sleep.

[00:05:39] Victor: That's like a, that is a trope you'll get with like ghost stuff is like the little kid talking to somebody that's not there like in the middle of the night or whatever. That comes up again and again. The 

[00:05:51] Olivia: trope that I think is especially creepy that we're talking about here is, I don't know what it's called, what you would call it, but like when you realize after the fact that something that seemed innocuous was not what you thought it was while it was happening and that it's actually something really creepy that gives me.

Like, it makes my stomach turn that, um, like what? I dunno, mechanic like, 

[00:06:18] Victor: it's like, uh, there's this old, I can't remember what it was from, I think, um, but there, there was like an old children's book of scary stories and there's a story of like, was it the kid? Yeah. There was like a little girl and she was in bed and like her puppy kept like licking her hand and she was like, stop it, stop it.

Like, I'm trying to sleep or whatever. And then she looks under the bed and it's like a crazed, escaped convict or something like that. That's been licking her hand. Is that way off 

[00:06:43] Olivia: face? No, no. Yeah, it's not quite that. It's that like, it's that like everything was fine. She didn't look under and see the guy.

It was that like that happened and then later they found out that that was what the guy was doing. You know what I mean? Like, it's like you don't actually catch the thing happening. Mm-hmm. you realize after the fact that a thing that seemed like nothing was actually something different. You know what I'm talking about though, right?

That it's like it's a storytelling mechanic. 

[00:07:16] Victor: Yeah. I don't, I don't know. It sort of reminds, 

[00:07:19] Zach: remind, reminds me of the one, I don't know. This is like, fits into that category exactly, but it's like a pretty popular like short horror story where the, again, a little girl's like in her bed and she hears her mom calling her from like down the hallway and like as she leaves her room, she sees her mom across the hallway, like in her room, sa and she goes, don't go down there.

I heard it too. 

[00:07:40] Olivia: Yes. That's it. It's like the, there's the buildup is like, has you focused on a different thing and then Yeah. Your, your attention is then brought to something else, which makes you realize that the first thing was actually a creepy thing. Yeah. I don't know that whatever that is, is that, 

[00:08:00] Zach: that's like a really boiled down version.


[00:08:03] Victor: Okay. I ended up on TV trips for a second. I gotta get away from that. That's a dark. Uh, we're just gonna have to stop recording. If I start reading TV trips, Victor had a dream. 

[00:08:13] Zach: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do a victor dream. 

[00:08:19] Victor: Where


[00:08:27] Olivia: they,

[00:08:37] Victor: I think it's pretty, pretty simple. Um, I don't think there's a lot there, so probably there's a lot there. But, um, I remember I was like sliding down, like, did you ever play like Mario 64 or whatever? Oh yeah. Like, I felt like I was like sliding down, like, um, Like, you know, when you're racing the penguin or whatever.

Yeah. Like, I felt like I was like an ice sled going down and there was like obstacles and I was trying to like, move around past stuff or whatever, and I perceived it as like, I'm doing this that I, I can't remember if I started out at the beginning with other people or if I just like had the feeling that that's how I got there.

But, um, yeah, I felt like there was a bunch of people that are doing this and I'm one of the people that is doing this and I'm going down the thing. Uh, and it's, it's just kind of fun. And, um, there's a point that I hit where I kinda like shoot up a ramp, kind of like I, I like fly up the edge and then I land and I kind of slide towards, uh, like a.

Like, um, somebody's house. I remember going into the house and thinking like that I had done something correctly, or I had gotten to the second part of the puzzle. And, uh, the house had like kinda a weird layout and several different rooms and there was like, uh, these big tiles on the floor that had like numbers on them.

And I was like, oh, this is the second part of the puzzle. These numbers are supposed to guide me to where I'm supposed to go. And I remember some of them were positive and some of them were negative. And I remember thinking that I had followed that to the room I was supposed to be in. But, um, I think it was just like a couple guys, like playing video games or something.

They're just like, you know, sitting in front of a TV and they didn't think I should be there. Like I, they didn't really say anything to me, but like I could tell. They were like surprised and a little annoyed that I was there. Um, and so I was like, oh, I guess this wasn't what I thought it was. After all, I wasn't supposed to end up in here.

And then I don't remember how I got there exactly, but I, um, I left the house and I like re-examined this slide and I realized that like, I think I like ended up jumping back onto it and like following it down again or. But I like realized that like what I had done where I had, um, like escaped the slide and ended up in the house was not what was supposed to happen.

I had like come somehow like broken the, the route or whatever I was supposed to keep going down. And then once you got all the way down to the end, it was supposed to like spill you out into the ocean to just be like done away with forever or whatever. And then I realized that like the people in the house were responsible for the slide.

And I had thought that the slide was like kind of a fun challenge that you were supposed to be able to succeed in. But um, I realized that it was actually like a trap. It was like there to trap people and like there was not supposed to be a way to, um, succeed. It was supposed to just like, you know, do away with people.

And I remember it being like, I felt like it was like a targeted thing. Against a group of people. And like, I don't remember if this felt like what it was in the dream or if it just like felt true when I woke up, but it has like stuck with me that I felt like the, the slide was there to target gay people.

I dunno why that, I think it was like a, it was like a bigot, it was like a anti-gay slide. It was like there to like, uh, just like dispose of like an unwanted group of people and had something to do with gay people. And that's it. That's the dream. I just, I remember like, I got to the end, I realized it was a trap that had been laid for people.

Remember being upset and feeling a guy I, who's gonna go like, confront somebody and then I woke up. I like 

[00:12:43] Olivia: the idea of that somebody is able to like, accidentally go off map in their dream or like that you're, that you like end up in like backstage of the dream space and like that that house exists somewhere, but like, that wasn't actually a part of the dream and you just kinda like, you glitched through like you found like a hole in the game, 

[00:13:08] Victor: and you just walked in.

It ended up in your 

[00:13:09] Zach: dream. You just walk into where the like saboteurs are like fun game guys. . Right. Don't tell 

[00:13:16] Victor: him. Do 

[00:13:17] Olivia: you have any like first impressions about what that might be about? 

[00:13:22] Victor: Yeah. Uh, no. I mean it, it felt like the kind of dream I, like I said, I don't think there's a lot there. It felt like the kind of dream where my brain was improvising.

Like I think when it found, What felt like a solution? You know, like me getting off the slide and into the house is, I don't know it, it didn't feel real well planned out. It didn't really seem like my brain had a clear understanding of what was going on. Like I remember the numbers being there, and that was supposed to be a clue to something, but like, I don't think.

That I had like, actually figured out what that puzzle would be. I think it was just like the suggestion of a puzzle. Yeah. Lot of, lot of 

[00:14:01] Zach: retroactive storytelling. 

[00:14:03] Victor: Right. Amazing. Right. I like 

[00:14:05] Olivia: wonder though, it, it seems like, like you've u you used the word puzzle a couple of times and, um, if I've learned anything from this podcast since that Zach dreams about work, I dream about not knowing if I wanna have kids and victor dreams about projects.

Sure, yeah. I don't know, maybe we should look at it from that angle cuz it, it felt like there were puzzle themes and like the slide, it's, it felt like there was a puzzle laid out, whether it was a, it was a trap or not, but like, it felt like it was a thing that was construc. In a puzzley sort of fashion.

And then the house that you went into had like puzzle elements in it. 

[00:14:47] Victor: It all felt very video gamey. Like it felt like the kind of stuff you run into in a video game. Yeah. As soon as you said 

[00:14:53] Zach: Mario 64, I was picturing those graphics the whole time. Yeah. Uh, but that, you're right Olivia, we do each have our own thing, like genre we tend to dream about.

I don't know why we don't just start there every time we're a little bit predictable. Well, I think everybody probably their subconscious has a top priority. Yeah, for sure. 

[00:15:13] Olivia: But, uh, and it's like, there's, like, it's interesting cuz they, even when we dream about similar things, like they come at it from different angles sometimes, or I feel like there's like insights based on the specifics of the dream.

[00:15:27] Zach: Yeah. You can't have the same dream every, every night. I, I feel like at a certain point your subconscious goes, all right, he's still not getting it, so, mm-hmm. , how can we package this differently? 

[00:15:36] Olivia: Okay. Question. How do we feel? Um, do we want to use our regular approach or the gestalt? Yeah. Do you wanna try the, try out the, uh, Bob ha's

Bob ha's, Bobby has approach. Bobby 

[00:15:55] Victor: has, yeah. Uh, sure we can, we can try out Bob. Ha. How about you guys? Like pull up some dream Bible stuff? Oh, yeah. While I try and reflect on, I didn't feel like anything, or like, I don't immediately know, like what had the most energy in the dream the way that Olivia kind of knew.

The little alligator was like the focal point in the dream. Yeah. Or your like 

[00:16:17] Zach: your like melty doppelganger. 

[00:16:20] Victor: Right. Yeah. I don't really know what that like center is in this. So I will try and try and think about that. 

[00:16:27] Zach: Sounds like the slide, but it's definitely, it's, this is my first, it's definitely more of a feeling thing, right?

Like it's whatever it was to Victor. Yeah. 

[00:16:34] Victor: I think that does, uh, as you were saying that, that's, that was the thought that was just starting to run through my head. So Yeah. Let me mu that over. 

[00:16:41] Olivia: It's like the literal through line of your dream. 

[00:16:45] Zach: I see what you did there. The house century is a long, you said there were people in the house?

Yes. I can't remember if you like described them in a specific way. 

[00:16:57] Victor: They seem like vague to me. It felt like maybe like, not, like, not like, um, aggressively broy, but maybe like, kinda like a frat house or like the kind of house that like, like you know, a bunch frat house, a bunch of college students live in.

Um, yeah, yeah. Young men. I know the house. Yeah. But not like it's been there. Not like real dingy or anything. It almost felt like a glass house kind of. I don't remember it actually being transparent, but I felt like there was a lot of like visibility through the house. 

[00:17:32] Olivia: Uh, were you sliding on your feet or on your butt or on your belly?

[00:17:39] Victor: I think I was on my butt. Okay. 

[00:17:41] Olivia: It's a butt slide. Yeah. It's interesting. There's different entries for slide and 

[00:17:46] Zach: sliding. Mm. And water slide. Which ones did you pull up, Olivia? 

[00:17:52] Olivia: I'm still like, kind of sucked into the slide situation here, but, um, I was thinking 

[00:17:59] Zach: I got slide trap and house. I was gonna 

[00:18:02] Olivia: say video game and I, do we want to listen to what Dream Bible has to say about gay people?

[00:18:13] Zach: I don't know. Yeah. It's, it's not always the lowest progressive. Is it? Relevant? Okay. 

[00:18:18] Victor: I mean, I, for some reason that's what stuck with me is that that was like the group of people being targeted by this. And so, yeah, I think it's worth looking 

[00:18:26] Zach: at. Is that why you escaped the trap? Cuz you're not gay. You were saying 

[00:18:30] Olivia: that when you told this to me that you felt like you weren't supposed to be on that slide cuz it wasn't for you.

[00:18:35] Victor: Yeah, well I, I felt like, like even before like, um, I realized it was a trap. I had felt like, um, I was helping other people with what I was doing. Like I was like, oh, I'm gonna. You know, it's like, uh, when, when you're playing a video game and you're like, oh yeah, let me like, uh, take a crack at this cuz you're like, struggling with it or something.

Like, I felt like I was like figuring out how to do it so that I could help other people figure out how to navigate it. Hmm. Does that make 

[00:19:08] Zach: sense? Yeah. Well, the, uh, dream by luxury for video games gets into specific games and game systems. Oh, 

[00:19:17] Olivia: wow. Do you remember, were they playing on like a PlayStation or 

[00:19:21] Victor: a, I I think it was like kind of nondescript.

I don't remember it being a specific thing. There's 

[00:19:28] Zach: Pacman, super Mario, legend of Zelda, Tetris, grant Theft Auto, Nintendo positive and negative, Xbox, PlayStation, Sega Sonic, the Hedgehog, and that, those are the specific ones I just, I, that's. Weird to me that that would be the, the, the detail like that would be significant and not just like, you know, whatever game you have at home 

[00:19:52] Victor: or whatever.

Can I hear the N 64 entry? Because like that does feel right. Like, I don't remember specifically seeing something, but it feels like that was the kind of thing they would be playing. I didn't 

[00:20:04] Zach: see N 64. There's a Nintendo. 

[00:20:06] Victor: Okay. I guess Nintendo negative, 

[00:20:09] Zach: negatively dreaming about Nintendo may be a sign that you believe a challenging experience isn't serious at all, while other people are annoyed or angry that you aren't stopping.

[00:20:18] Victor: Oh, well that's exactly what was happening, right? Because it was like I was trying to solve a problem, but like it wasn't supposed to be a solvable thing. And then, yeah, me doing that was like pissing these people. Yeah, 

[00:20:30] Zach: they're annoyed or angry that you aren't stopping. 

[00:20:33] Olivia: Okay. So the, the slide entry is really long and then the sliding entry is a completely different page, and it's also really long.

Wow. Okay. But, um, in sliding, kind of the last paragraph here in the, or the last sentence, the first paragraph here, a downward slide in general could represent feelings about a slow worsening of a relationship or other situation. You're experiencing losing confidence or losing feelings of certainty, feeling unable to maintain a strong position or leadership role in a situation.

Um, so kind of like a losing control thing. Hmm. And then in the slot, in the slide entry, there was, let's see, a lot of it like, kind of doesn't apply cuz it's like, so a lot of it is really hyper-specific, like, it'll be like sliding on your feet or is a playground slide or, um, but this, how are you feeling when you're going down the slide?

I, it was fun. 

[00:21:30] Victor: Yeah, I think it was kind of fun. And when you first, it was like a fun challenge. When 

[00:21:34] Zach: you first fell off into the house, you thought you had messed up? 

[00:21:38] Victor: No, it felt like an accomplishment. Um, I felt like I had done something right. I kind of thought that I was gonna be received, um, positively like that.

I was gonna get like a cross in the finish line kind of reaction from the people in the house. And then I was, I was surprised to find that they were not happy that I was 

[00:21:58] Olivia: there. Okay. Can I read a paragraph here that like, it's not quite exact, it's the, it doesn't actually apply to how you were feeling, but I think there's something about it that feels relevant.

To dream of fearing falling off A giant slide may reflect feelings of being forced to endure a risky or unpredictable situation. Not willing to speak up or seek help because you feel a problem will be over soon anyway, feeling that it's easier to endure pain, difficulty, or fear. Um, if you don't try to control a situation, feelings of being forced to confront your biggest fear without any way to stop it.

Fear of looking like a novice or unprofessional person. 

[00:22:39] Zach: The last one was sort of the opposite though of what it sounds like was happening. Like you thought you came in, like you beat the challenge. 

[00:22:47] Olivia: Yeah, I think that's why I'm reading it is cuz it feel, it feels relevant, it's specific to what was happening there, but it feels kind of opposite.

I don't know. I feel like there's maybe some meaning that can be gleaned from there. Maybe I'm wrong though. 

[00:22:59] Victor: I'm just, I'm rereading that passage cuz I'm, yeah. I. Nothing really feels like it's like clicking. I guess I see myself in some things in this century, but not in a way that feels connected. I, I felt very empowered in the whole dream.

Like, first I felt like I was, I felt like I was doing a good job. Uh, and then once I found out that things were not as, they seemed like I, I wasn't like in despair or anything, I felt like, oh, well I'm gonna do something about this. Like, I felt like I had control throughout the dream. 

[00:23:36] Zach: This may or may not be relevant, but I was just reading it because one of the first things you said was you compared it to Super Mario, the slide at least.

Mm-hmm. . And so I just read that outta curiosity and I think this is the most unhinged entry in the dream Bible I've ever seen. Amazing. The grammar and the, it goes. To dream of the video game, super Mario represents a challenging experience to see how far you can take something by embarrassing other people with being believable, trying to get something special back.

what? That's a first sentence. A challenging situation to see how far you can take it by being more awesome than others. By never saying you are a challenging situation, to see how far you can take it by respecting yourself, thinking, thinking you are important until everyone arrogant gives back Specialness, increasing degrees of difficulty.

Believing nothing is impossible by never caring about yourself first. Seeing how much you can get away with by never acting childish or believing you are more attractive than others. . . And then the last sentence, A attitude of nothing is fantastic, but you'll keep working out until specialness is back.

what did any of that mean? 

[00:24:49] Olivia: A attitude of nothing is fantastic, 

[00:24:52] Zach: but you'll keep working on it until specialness is back.

[00:24:58] Olivia: Well, okay. Why don't we 

[00:25:00] Zach: go through you through amazing as of all of that track to Victor. Yeah. 

[00:25:04] Victor: Yeah. It's like, yeah. It's like, oh, makes 

[00:25:05] Olivia: right sense. Now I 

[00:25:06] Victor: know what they're 

[00:25:07] Zach: trying to say. 

[00:25:08] Olivia: Why don't we do the Gestalt 

[00:25:12] Victor: exercise for you? Yeah. I, I guess I'm trying to, I'm trying to get into the head of the slide because like it feels inert.

It, it feels like part of the landscape, you know? But, um, okay. I think it would help me if you read the questions to me. Yes. 

[00:25:28] Olivia: I will walk you through it. Okay. And it helped me to like kind of close my eyes and just listen for a thing. 

[00:25:36] Victor: I'm trying, I'm trying to like go with your gut, feel that 

[00:25:39] Olivia: I'm in the slide, whatever you hear.

Okay. As the slide, my purpose is, 

[00:25:47] Victor: I guess this, um, this is where I landed at the end of the dream and it still feels true, um, that the purpose is to deceive. 

[00:25:57] Olivia: Hmm. As the slide, my goal is, 

[00:26:01] Victor: I mean, I guess it's like, it's, it's manifesting as a challenge, right? So it's like it is a thing that does not want to be like, overcome, right?

Like it wants to be unbeatable. It, it does, it, um, wants to defeat anyone that engages with it. Okay. 

[00:26:21] Zach: Specifically gays or just anyone? , 

[00:26:25] Victor: anyone defeat 

[00:26:27] Olivia: all 

[00:26:28] Zach: challenges. Do you think the, the homophobic agenda was that of the people utilizing the slide and not like the purpose for the slides existence in the first.

[00:26:36] Victor: Yeah, and I don't, I don't, I really don't know why like, like gay resonates there, but I feel like I want to be transparent about it. That's just like when I, I remember when I was retelling this to Olivia when I was talking about it, it's like that just felt accurate and, um, but like more vaguely, like, yeah, I felt like the people in the house were using the slide as a way to harm like a group of people they didn't like, and I didn't feel that I was in that group, but I was like sympathetic as that group, as Victor, as the slide, as Victor, I felt like, um, I was there to help.

I didn't, I didn't realize that there was like a, like a negative agenda until I saw the thing as a trap and then I was like, oh, okay, this is, this exists to. Like harm a group of people that the people in the house don't like, but 

[00:27:38] Zach: that, so that, but you wouldn't include that agenda as part of the purpose or the goal for these first, for these first two questions.


[00:27:45] Victor: So, so getting back to, to your question. Yeah. I feel like the slide does not have like a hateful agenda. I think it's 

[00:27:53] Olivia: important that, at least I was finding it difficult to do this ta this, um, approach when we were veering from it la last time. So I 

[00:28:03] Zach: think it's like when you were like switching between like first and second person.

[00:28:07] Olivia: Yes. Like just be the slide and we'll answer the questions and then we can come back and like, oh, okay. Dig into it. I think that that will be a little easier for you. 

[00:28:17] Zach: Okay. I statements, 

[00:28:19] Olivia: my biggest fear 

[00:28:20] Victor: is, Hmm. I guess being, um, weakened or destroyed. Right. I guess I'm, I it feels like, um, it, it is. It is obstacles.

Right. And so the idea that those obstacles would be like, you know, undone in a way that it is no longer, it's like less and less of a problem, you know? Mm-hmm. . 

[00:28:46] Olivia: Okay. As the slide I love 

[00:28:50] Victor: that feels connected to the cold somehow. I feel like almost like a love of, um, solitude. Okay. 

[00:29:01] Olivia: As the slide I hate. 

[00:29:04] Victor: Yeah. I think it hates the people on the slide.

I think it, yeah. It's like it does not like people or it's like, uh, yeah, that's, that's the enemy of the thing is the people that, that use it. Okay. 

[00:29:19] Olivia: This, I guess still from the per perception of the slide, is it, why is that like, uh, is that because, 

[00:29:27] Victor: yeah, I think. Um, yeah, I th I think that it, um, it's ideal state is kind of like, um, it's like it's, it's an object that, um, desires to exist in like isolation and like, it doesn't, it doesn't want anyone around.

Does that 

[00:29:47] Olivia: answer the last question, which is I 

[00:29:49] Victor: desire? Yeah. I think it wants solitude. Yeah. I think it's like it wants to be left alone, I think. 

[00:29:57] Olivia: Okay. So as the slide in Victor's dream, my purpose is to deceive. My goal is to defeat all challengers. My biggest fear is being weakened or destroyed. I love solitude.

I hate the people on me. And I desire to be left alone. The challengers . Yeah. Here. I hate the challengers. Does the slide hate gay people? Did you answer that? Did Zach ask that question? We talked about that. Yeah. 

[00:30:27] Victor: That was the question. Okay. He decided I don't, no, no. I don't feel like the slide has it. Just all people.

Yeah. The slide hates everyone and the slide is being used by the people in the house to, to like target a specific group of people. It's like god damn frat 

[00:30:42] Zach: bros. 

[00:30:43] Victor: for some reason, like, like a group of people have been like, Lured into thinking that they should go down this slide, but its purpose is to destroy them.

[00:30:54] Zach: Yeah. It's like not anymore, uh, you know, morally aligned than like a cliff or a body of water like anything else that you could use to kill people. , 

[00:31:03] Victor: right? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, uh, yeah, exactly. It's like a death trap that has been dressed up or presented in a way that it feels like, you know, a fun challenge, but it's actually something that's only purposes to destroy you.

Like the slide itself doesn't have any, doesn't have any hateful agenda, I don't think. It's probably only barely aware of the people in the house. You know? That's how that feels anyway. Yeah. 

[00:31:32] Zach: Then how do we I forgot how we, how do we go from here? How we did it last time, how we got from Olivia being an alligator to knowing what the dream meant.

Hmm. . You know what I mean? But it, it, but I remember it felt like this too at that time. 

[00:31:47] Olivia: Because I remember when I was doing it, there were some things where I was like, oh, this is what the alligator wants. And there were some things that were like, eh, I think maybe 

[00:31:54] Victor: this, yeah, I guess I can, I can relate on some level to the slide in that.

It's like, I, I also have like an impulse for like, perfection and isolation. 

[00:32:09] Zach: Yeah. Cause that was another thing we talked about last time was that there's an impulse to be like the slide or the alligator, like it's as if it's a different thing, but everything in your dream is you. Right. 

[00:32:22] Olivia: And you've expressed, um, like, you like to work on projects alone.

Right. And like, something that you've expressed is like wanting more time for solo projects. Um, not, not to make everything about projects, but like, that's what the, the like wanting solitude thing reminded me 

[00:32:43] Victor: of. Yeah. And it's like, it's kind of a. Like Zach, we've talked about how like everything, like it feels like, um, with the productivity urge or whatever, it's like, oh, well everything needs to be monetized or turned into a career or whatever.

But like I, I get drawn towards projects that are like independent with the idea that, oh, well maybe this thing will turn into a thing that will make money so that I can be even more alone than I am now. You know, it's like, yeah. Part of the goal of the project is to put myself in a position where I don't have to talk to anyone.

I don't want to, you know, it's like, that's like my ideal situation is like, um, cracking some kind of, um, like work situation where I'm not reliant on anyone, you know? And part of that feels. The desire for to be alone, to be not totally isolated, but more isolated. Does that make 

[00:33:44] Zach: sense? Yeah, no, that would, that's a dream scenario for me.

Um, yeah, if I could get, somehow get paid to just make music and podcasts alone in my room. Right? 

[00:33:54] Victor: Yeah. Like something in me wants that and some other things in me are like, that's silly. And also you'd probably hate, you would probably hate that if you had it, but there's a, there's a part of me that, um, just wants to be very good at something that I'm doing without anyone else there.

And like it, um, it's value is independent of me having to deal with anybody. 

[00:34:21] Zach: Yes. That the, um, do you think that the part about hating the challengers plays into that, or like the, like the slide doesn't seem to want to be challenged or attempted? Yeah. You know what I mean? Because in a vacuum it's un, it's undefeatable because nobody's like even trying to beat it.

But like, I don't know. Cause I, I could relate that to like, having somebody hear my music or like, play your board game. Like that's an even crispr example cuz that actually is beatable or not. You know, like that's, that's a literal challenge, which, you know, can be, uh, vulnerable and not like something you're necessarily prepared for when you're designing the thing alone.

[00:34:59] Victor: Hmm. Yeah, no, I mean, I guess I, I, um, feel that, yeah, I relate to that. Um, and yeah, I, I think I share, Hmm, sorry, I'm, I'm just kinda lost in my thoughts. I'm, I'm busy being a slide You process. Yeah. But no, I feel like, um, from, from the, the head space of like, well, what does the slide think? Like, I, I think the, the hatred is not, um, I, I think it's more like there's like a tedious to this of like being engaged with, you know, like, this feels like an annoyance and what it would like is to be left alone.


[00:35:40] Olivia: does that, I mean, that kind of reminds me of what, like, I don't know, you've expressed similar feelings about like, you know, having a, like a day job that feels like, I don't know, kind of a, a thing you have to do until you can figure out how to do the thing you really wanna do. 

[00:35:58] Victor: Like, if I can figure out a thing I really want to do.

Yeah, no, um, yeah, and like, I'm also aware that like, whatever I do, I will probably feel that way about, you know, it's like you're kind of chasing, um, the feeling of, of like having. Having made it or whatever, you know, but that's just always gonna, that's like a mirage, right? It just will continuously move back as you move towards it.

But like, that doesn't change the feeling of like wanting to move from where I am towards something, you know? 

[00:36:34] Zach: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I have this sinking feeling all the time that like, having to be anywhere, doing anything for eight hours straight is going to be arduous no matter what it is. Yeah. 

[00:36:44] Victor: Yeah. It's discouraging.

[00:36:47] Olivia: Yeah. Does that feel true about this dreams, or is it 

[00:36:50] Victor: not quite, it, like, it feels true about me. Like I, I feel like what I'm getting out of putting myself into the, the, the perspective of the slide is like, it feels connected to that part of myself, the part of myself that wants to. Perfect. And also like is a little exhausted by people, you know?

It's like probably that's the part of me that like likes to go off and lock myself up to like, try and record music for hours, you know? I like to do that alone, you know? Um, and, but like how it ties into the rest of what's happening in the dream is eluding me. You know, well, 

[00:37:32] Olivia: do we wanna look at gay people?

I mean, I could, that seemed like an important thing, right? 

[00:37:37] Zach: I, I could see that like a, um, interpretation and this, this might not resonate, but like the interpretation, this, this presenting itself to me is like, well if you like, went down the slide and you were supposed to perish, but you like fell off and then you're like, I won.

And if the slide in this case is like isolation and like, Just working on projects in a vacuum. Like I could see how that would be interpreted as like, maybe not an ideal, like a trap, you know? But like if you are doing it for X amount of time before you get to the point where you're like, oh shit, I spent my whole life in a closet.

You know, up to a certain point you might be like, this is awesome. I'm crushing it. You know what I mean? 

[00:38:21] Victor: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Uh, you can definitely like pour your time into something that doesn't end up painting out and then be like, oh my God, what have I done with my life? 

[00:38:32] Zach: Yeah. So I guess this, this potential interpretation that I'm talking about would just be like, I don't know.

You subconsciously recognizing the idea that this thing that you would, that you think you would want to do might be actually like, Great for you. Yeah. If, if that thing is like, I isolation, not making projects, but like Yeah. Antisocial and 

[00:38:52] Victor: whatever. Yeah. No, I think there's, there's truth to that. And that's definitely like, a thought that's occurred to me is like, is, is, is this the kind of thing that like if I, if I were to have it, I would immediately get sick of it and want to be doing something else.

[00:39:06] Zach: Right. You know? Yeah. And this, that's just me. Like put putting pieces together. There might not be the right pieces in the right place. It's just 

[00:39:13] Olivia: Does it feel like this is about projects? Like I, I mean, I maybe I maybe shouldn't have like, put that idea in our heads. . Yeah. Like rolled in. Like, so this is definitely about this.

Let's start 

[00:39:25] Victor: from there. Spoiler alert. No, it, no, it does not feel like it's about projects. Okay. The part, the thing with the slide. I can connect to the part of me. Okay. That is interested in projects, but, um, no, that it's not, I don't, I don't feel that it's a project dream. Does 

[00:39:41] Olivia: it feel more like, um, 

[00:39:44] Zach: how long ago did you have 

[00:39:45] Victor: this?

Couple days ago? I think like end of the work week last week. Does that sound right? So Right, 

[00:39:50] Zach: right before your, you guys had that party, so a social anxiety dream, uh, maybe, yeah. I'm just throwing spaghetti at the wall or whatever that expression is. just tossing 

[00:40:01] Victor: my noodles. What? Can I hear the nudes or I guess I'll, I'll pull it up.

I, I am interested in the gay entry, which I know that like, dream bible 

[00:40:11] Olivia: we should make a disclaimer about anytime. We're just, cuz people like, hop in and listen to random episodes. Um, we should maybe remind people how Dream Bible works because 

[00:40:22] Zach: Yeah. It's a collection of, uh, it's based on a collection of surveys of.

Of, uh, various people's dreams, what they interpreted them to mean. So, uh, and 

[00:40:33] Olivia: yeah, so like there's in certain entries when there, there are things that kind of read as problematic and they are, and it's because people are problematic and people right have internalized biases and um, you know, that's just how people are.

Yeah. And so, uh, just when we read entries, yeah, I mean, and there, there is some stuff in this one that's obviously, 

[00:40:55] Victor: I think just the first paragraph is, is probably all that feels relevant. Um, but, uh, to dream of gay people represents aspects of your personality that notices it's not as normal as everyone else all the time.

Issues with caring about accept acceptability. You were someone else that feels good doing something, uh, good feel, that's a jumbled sentence. You or someone else that feels good doing something, feel to be wrong, odd, or not acceptable to others. Issues with moral acceptability with other people, issues with being noticed, behaving in unconventional or taboo ways?

Yeah, I mean, um, I was just talking to some friends of artists about this, but like, I do feel like there's, um, an like aspects of myself that have always felt, uh, kind of other, you know, or like, I feel like I've just like, um, had a hard time relating to people, had a hard time connecting with people. Like select, select people I can connect with, but like in general, if you like drop me into a room of strangers, I'm gonna be awkward and, uh, uncomfortable, you know?

And so like, it's possible that, that is what's being gotten at with like, uh, gay people as a group in, in this like marginalized, uh, position in my dream, right? Is like, be, I guess that makes a certain amount of sense because it's like, Um, because they're being like targeted, right? Like they're being, um, they're being harassed by this group of people in the house, right?


[00:42:34] Zach: so like, they're trying to, maybe it is trying like feed 'em into the ocean, right? You made it sound like it was like Right. An elimination. 

[00:42:40] Victor: Yes. And so it, it is possible that the, that the dynamic playing out here is like maybe my perception of myself being like ostracized or like wished away in some way by like my idea of other people, you know?

But, but like I said, I felt like throughout the dream I felt like I'm not supposed to be on the slide. I'm not part of the group of people that is like, that needs to be on the slide. I'm doing this for like, to be helpful. Yeah. I don't know what to do with that either, guys. Does 

[00:43:15] Olivia: that feel more. Relevant than 

[00:43:18] Victor: what we were just talking about?

Well, I think like if we go too far into like the, oh, this is about, um, you know, me feeling like I don't, uh, fit in with people or something like that, I think ignores something that felt very true in the dream, which is that I didn't actually feel like part of the group that was being targeted. Right, right.

[00:43:39] Zach: But when you went, when you went into the house thinking that you had won the game, the people in the house didn't welcome you either, right? Like you didn't belong in the house, 

[00:43:48] Victor: right? Yeah. See, you didn't belong in the house. You didn't belong in either 

[00:43:51] Zach: place. You kind of, uh, were in no man's 

[00:43:54] Victor: land. 

[00:43:54] Olivia: Yep. And that was the place you expected to belong?

[00:43:58] Victor: I, I. I didn't realize that there was any conflict between people until the very end of the dream. I had, like, going down the slide, I'd perceived like the challenge as like friendly. Like no one was gonna get hurt. There was not, I didn't realize that there was any serious consequences for anybody to not succeed in the challenge.

It felt like this is a hard thing that other people are gonna have to do, and it's not gonna hurt me any to like, get in there and, you know, roll up my sleeves and try and help out with it, you know, and that's what I'm gonna do. That's sliding. And it was only at the tail end of the dream that I was like, oh, this is actually like, about a very serious conflict and that this, this exists as like a way of hurting people.

Mm-hmm. , you know? Mm-hmm. interesting. So like, when I was in the house, I, I like, like I said, I was surprised because I thought that everybody was on the same team. You know? I thought the people on the house were rooting for the people coming down the slide. 

[00:44:57] Olivia: Were there other people coming down the slide? 

[00:44:59] Victor: I don't remember anyone being on the slide with me when I was first gone down.

I do remember like an understanding that there were other people that had gone before me and other people that would go after me. And I, I think that there were other people there when I got to the end and saw what was, saw the like end result that was supposed to happen. 

[00:45:22] Olivia: Did you get dumped into 

[00:45:23] Victor: the ocean?

I didn't. I think I like managed to like stop on the edge. Mm-hmm. , but I could see that it was very much like designed, like, I don't know that I, um, like I felt very confident the whole dream. So I wasn't like worried about getting off of that edge. But it felt like the kind of thing where it's like you're not supposed to be able to come back from here.

[00:45:43] Zach: was picturing there being penguins on it, but that's just cuz you mentioned Mario. 

[00:45:47] Victor: No, but I fully feel like there were like, like block obstacles, like in my way. Oh, like that era of graphics, right? Yeah. I don't know what it means, guys. That's 

[00:45:56] Zach: okay. We don't have to, is it a reflection of society or the, the house is like normal or the, even the, uh, ruling class and the, the slide is like, this is what we do with our weirdos and like from a distance it doesn't look like there's any conflict.

But then I, I, your, your place in this society is like, you feel confident kinda navigating between both groups at least functionally, even though you don't, you, you may not be cognizant of the conflict grasping straws. 

[00:46:27] Victor: Yeah. , um, I. I think what felt really meaningful to me at the end was that like the game was rigged.

You know, no one was ever supposed to succeed at this thing. Mm-hmm. , right? And like, I think that, um, 

[00:46:45] Zach: like society, 

[00:46:46] Victor: man, like, just like society, man, the game is rigged. Um, but just like society, the game is rigged and, uh, . Yeah. No, I mean, um, I don't know what it means, but like that feels, that felt meaningful to me or that does feel true like that, that, um, comes up in various ways in life where it's like, um, you are set up as if like there's a way out, but there isn't, you know what I mean?

Or like Yeah. Um, I, uh, I give up 

[00:47:23] Zach: question mark. So sometimes I feel like I try to interpret dreams, like I'm in book club and I'm trying to find the fucking theme that the author put there. Yeah. And that's not usually how it works, I don't think. Yeah. 

[00:47:35] Victor: Or is it?

[00:47:48] Zach: Yeah. If this turns out to be juicy, we can get into it, but it's like, it's very short. I was just at a grocery store with my mom and uh, we were trying to pick out which ice cream to get, and we were both being super fuddy-duddy about it. Like we just like didn't know what to get. And then fucking Sam Elliot walks in the cowboy actor and he just goes, it was, I, I can't do an impression unfortunately, except in my mind cause it sounded just like him.

But he was like, you and me, neither of us have ever tried this chocolate one right here. Let's get that and split that. And my mom and I , my mom and I turned to each other and we're like, he's so decisive. And that, that was it. That's fun. That's all I remember anyway. 

[00:48:34] Olivia: That's funny cuz you're vegan. Well, I guess you probably have vegan ice cream.

Yeah. But are you, you're, you're not much, correct me if I'm wrong, but like, you're not much of like an ice cream, like desserts kind of 

[00:48:46] Zach: person. Are you? I'm not big on sweets in general, but ice cream is the one that I'll go for every, every now and then and yeah. There, there's some pretty good vegan ones out there.

I have a hard time imagining Sam Elliott's vegan. No. Oh, you never know those Hollywood types. 

[00:49:01] Victor: Should I read the ice cream entry? Sure. Yeah. The dream of ice cream represents comforting yourself or habits You have to cheer rep from bat from a bad situation, something you are doing to make yourself feel better about something negative that has happened to you.

How you choose to comfort yourself during a difficult situation or disappointment, how you emotionally deal with something permanent and unpleasant. Flavors, uh oh. Favorite flavors may symbolize your preferred emotions during a difficult or unpleasant moment. How you feel, uh, when you need to cheer up, consider the flavor for additional meaning.

And then this is interesting. Red ice cream symbolizes negative thoughts or bad intentions that you are using to comfort yourself with a sign that you may be choosing dishonesty, hurting others, or bad, dangerous behavior to cheer yourself up. Red ice cream may also reflect sex or masturbation in order to feel better about losing a loved one.

Gambling drug use or alcoholism. Red ice cream is 

[00:50:00] Zach: bad 

[00:50:00] Olivia: masturbating in order to feel better about losing a loved one. Oh, okay. Okay. I can see , I can see that. I don't know why I just immediately pictured like your dad's funeral or 

[00:50:11] Zach: something and, and in the bathroom at the church. It's like, well then it went on to list like gambling, alcoholism, like a lot of other like dopamine hits.

Yeah. There's a lot of ways. There's a lot of ways to come. 

[00:50:22] Victor: It does make 

[00:50:23] Olivia: sense. , uh, 

[00:50:25] Zach: it does make sense. Just, but also red's not a flavor, it's a color. Right. But enough people dream of. I pictured red velvet. Yeah. Cake. But even that's like chocolate . Yeah. This was like, uh, like your classic chocolate ice cream with chocolate chips.

[00:50:42] Victor: Yeah. Nothing evil there. Hmm. That is why I eat ice cream, you know, to comfort myself. Mm-hmm. from a difficult situation or disappointment deal with something permanent and unpleasant. But, uh, I do eat it every day. Every day. He is such an ice cream 

[00:50:58] Olivia: boy. Not 

[00:50:59] Victor: every day, but not every day. Like ice cream. Yeah.

It's a lot of days. Eat a lot of ice cream, but like, it is. Yeah. Every time, every time I'm eating ice cream it's like, this is cuz it's, life is bad. . Yeah. Is this so bad? ? That's not so bad. 

[00:51:17] Zach: not, not when you have ice cream

Um, I never go for chocolate in real life though. There I'm not. There's, uh, this vegan cookie dough one out there. That's my go-to. Hmm. 

[00:51:30] Olivia: Zach, are you or is someone in your life, um, like, is it like indecisiveness on your mind because I've, I have felt so indecisive lately. 

[00:51:43] Zach: Not, not lately. Not in general. Not with big stuff.

In fact, I feel like I know what I'm doing now more than ever. But, but gen on in general, day-to-day stuff, I'm super indecisive. Like, like in picking out ice cream, that would be something that I would be super indecisive about. 

[00:52:00] Olivia: Right? Me too. It's like the stuff that does not matter. The stuff that's like, just everyday little tiny stuff that's.

Where I cannot for the life of me make a decision. 

[00:52:10] Zach: Yeah. And I was like that with big life events for a long time. But I, and maybe that's why it's on my mind. Cause I feel like I'm finally at a place where I'm like, okay, I've got these things Hmm. Set up like I'm dating the person I want to date. I have like, the job stuff is underway, like leading towards something that I want to do now.

I just gotta be patient. But yeah. Yeah. Indecision kind of runs in my family too. So, it's funny, my mom was there, my mom and my dad and me are all kind of like, that drives my sister fucking crazy cuz she's like very type a very may maybe in response to, to our childhood. Cuz she'll just, she cannot stand to be like in a store with me where I'm like, I don't know, should we get chips with ridges?

That kind of hurt my mouth and she's like, I'm leaving . 

[00:52:57] Olivia: Um, yeah. Uh, I don't know. I've always perceived that at least in myself as like. I don't know, like, maybe it's like a way to like feel some kind of control, like , like if I feel especially out of control or like, I don't know, maybe then when I'm making these little decisions, it's funny cuz it's kind of the opposite.

Like you'd think that that would mean like make the decision and then you've got the control. But like to me the way it feels is like I put more weight on little decisions and so like, as if it matters more and then it just turns into another source of, of um, anxiety. And then I'm like, victory. You pick and then and then he picks, and then I have relinquished my control again.

That's right. 

[00:53:45] Zach: Ironically. Do you ever make him pick and then you like argue with his decision? Yeah. like, 

[00:53:52] Olivia: but it's mostly for fun. It's like, don't pick that though. It's a bit, we 

[00:53:56] Victor: do every time I pick something it's just like, by default you're gonna argue against him. Yeah. 

[00:54:03] Zach: Um, yeah, no, I think for me it's more about uh, like fear of regret, like making, 

[00:54:09] Olivia: making me too, but I'm like really worried that I'm gonna regret the dessert that I pay.

Like . 

[00:54:15] Zach: Yeah, that's what I'm saying, like it, like it has less to do with trying to control a situation and more to do with like, I also get really hung up on like efficiency. Like when I'm making a, which is also ironic, the way you re like relinquish control. In the pursuit of control. I spend like half an hour making my to-do list as efficient as possible.

and like, I'll do these three errands cause they're next to each other. Wait, no, that doesn't make sense. Like, I'll do this one first and like I try to line everything up to knock it all down. But like, in doing that, I spent a good chunk of the day just banging my head against the wall. 

[00:54:49] Olivia: Hmm. Yeah. I think we talked about this like, like, uh, when we were on our honeymoon, I was like, I feel like I experienced this thing, but like way more intensely where.

Like we needed to eat lunch, but we're in San Francisco and I've never been to San Francisco. Oh yeah. And there's a million amazing restaurants. I'm the worst on a trip and I cannot fucking pick one to save my life because there's so many good options. And I don't wanna, I do not wanna go to a place just for sustenance while we're in a place that I'm not sure when we're gonna come back 

[00:55:26] Zach: to.

Yeah. I'm the worst on vacation. My dad and I were in a grocery store in Anchorage, Alaska, like, not even like a food place. Just, just like a safe way. And we spent like an ungodly amount of time just wandering around, thinking out loud. Like, well, we don't wanna come back tomorrow. Let's get breakfast now.

what do you wanna eat tonight? I don't know. What do you want to eat? And my sister would've murdered us both if she were there. But yeah, I don't know. The best I can figure about this dream is that like Sam Elliot is like the paragon of like masculinity. Because it's like me and my mom being indecisive about ice cream, and then this masculine figure wa figure walks in and just has the answer.

So it kind of feels like an anima animous thing. Like I'm telling you, the 

[00:56:09] Victor: dream of a cowboy represents an aspect of yourself that is adventurous and involved in risks or taking chances, which he's a cowboy. Oh yeah. Uhhuh. . 

[00:56:18] Olivia: That's the shortest fucking dream Bible entry I've ever heard. . 

[00:56:22] Zach: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the, uh, that dream, uh, was about me trying to tell myself to be more of a cowboy, more of a Sam Elliot and just pick your goddamn ice cream.

But that would imply that I'm being indecisive about something in life. Right. Well, 

[00:56:34] Olivia: and he made, he, he picked one that you hadn't tried before. It was like specifically a flavor that you had never had before and that you normally wouldn't pick in real life. 

[00:56:44] Zach: Yeah, but I was ex and I was gonna split it with him.

[00:56:48] Victor: That's cute. But it's like how you, um, process a bad situation, right. How you cheer yourself up. That's, that's what ice cream is for yourself, right? So it's like you, like maybe it's about changing how you engage with negativity or difficult things, or 

[00:57:05] Zach: that does track. I have been kind of depressed lately.

Hmm. Um, and the, there could be a prognosis in there, right? Like, like this masculine figure being decisive about ice cream. Which, you know, speaking of like the dream bibles maybe antiquated, stereotypical symbolism could be considered like a feminine kind of thing. And he's like, you're gonna split this with May, maybe the, like, the prognosis there is like, there's this masculine action oriented way of dealing with, uh, problems.

And then there's this like, Lay around and eat ice cream kind of way of dealing with it. And maybe there's virtue in like splitting, like doing a little column, a little column B, you know, so you can't, you can't deny yourself like rest and ice cream, but you also can't like wallow in that all day. Like there's, there's probably like a happy middle ground.

You know, 

[00:57:52] Victor: correct me if I'm wrong, but I do feel like there's a, a connection between depression and inaction, right? So it's like you standing there like mulling over your options of how you deal with your sad, your sadness, right? What ice cream you're gonna pick is maybe the thing that is keeping you in that place, right?

So it's like maybe a push to positive action, a push to making the decision that starts the progress of, you know, changing how you feel or, 

[00:58:23] Olivia: so ice cream is how you choose to cheer yourself up. Chocolate is. Self reward in treating yourself. Right? Like, which it kind of seems like the same thing, but like there are other ways that people deal with like cheering themself up.

Right? Um, like some people do like really risky things or, but it, it sounds like chocolate is, like, chocolate is literally like, treat yourself like doing something for yourself, like self-care, whatever that looks like for you, which is 

[00:58:57] Zach: probably a good prescription. Cause I tend to, um, just push through it for like a while.

Just like get really wrapped up in work and like, like don't, you know, lay down or you're never get up from this depression nap. And then I just push, push, push and then I run completely run out of energy. And then instead of having a depression nap, it's a whole fucking day. Will that really beat myself up over, which isn't self care.

That's like collapsing from exhaustion. 

[00:59:25] Victor: Yeah. Right. Well, yeah, I mean it, that does sound like, um, there maybe there's an awareness of like, you have patterns of how you deal with like, um, like when you're experiencing like a depressed state and like something in you is like interested in finding like a new, like a new method, like a trying something different.

Trying something, uh, that's like shaking up your pattern, but mm-hmm. , 

[00:59:55] Zach: I dunno. Yeah. Thanks. Sam Elliot . Yeah. It's not about anything by the way. It's just one of those changing of his hides things. It's just chemical, I think. 

[01:00:05] Victor: Totally. And I hope I didn't sound like dismissive in any way. Like I know it's not as simple as like just, we'll just do something like, I know it's not anything, it's not that, but.

Like, it's like you can, you can find, you can like become aware of like an unhealthy pattern you're in and then kinda like slowly ease yourself into a different direction in like, some subsets of life. Right. That can end up, yeah. 

[01:00:33] Zach: Helpful. Yeah. And the weird part is you can fall into those patterns even with like, self-awareness in the first place.

Mm-hmm. , you know what I'm like, you have the self-awareness of like, oh, lay, like laying down all day is not gonna help, but like, I don't know, like you can create, 

[01:00:50] Olivia: you're aware of the exact pattern that you fall into, you know, 

[01:00:53] Zach: you, you can create a new pattern by avoiding older 

[01:00:56] Victor: patterns. I keep running into that of like, self-awareness of a problem is not a solution to a problem necessarily.

Maybe it's like a first step on the path to solving the problem. Conscious incompetence. But like, like, I, I have like a real awareness of like social anxiety stuff that I do, and to a degree, some awareness of like how silly or counterproductive it is, but I can't help it, you know? Or I haven't figured out how to change that behavior even though I can see it.

And even though I know it's silly, you know? 

[01:01:31] Zach: Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like sometimes I'll have a thing that I become self-aware about and well, that's great. But like then I think that just avoiding the thing is, um, or, or my, I dunno, I'm trying to think of a good example. Like, uh, like as a hypochondriac, well, I'm still a hypochondriac, but, but through like a lot of C B T, I've finally gotten good at like, letting those thoughts go.

But in the middle ground, there was like, first I became self-aware that like, okay, I'm a hypochondriac. I'm not actually sick this much. Um, when I have this thought that's like, I have cancer, that's hypochondria speaking. Uh, so then there's a period of time where I just ignored that thought. . Um, but that's not actually the solution.

Like negating something or like snaking your way around a pattern isn't the same thing. Yeah. As like taking action to correct the issue. Right. 

[01:02:22] Olivia: What I was um, saying about like the consciousness continuum, right? is like, yeah, being aware of the problem and not being able to do anything about it. Like Victor, your like example with social anxiety that is conscious incompetence.

And then Victor, your example of, um, there being little things that you can do with that self-awareness to try and like, make small movements towards a different state of being. That's the conscious competence that is the next step, you know? And the last 

[01:02:58] Zach: one is unconscious competence. Is that right? Yeah.

Unconscious. Unconscious. Competence. Competence. You just. 

[01:03:04] Olivia: It's like second nature, like Right. You don't have to think about it 

[01:03:07] Victor: anymore. Yeah. That's a really useful, um, like what do you call that, like. Like a framework for thinking about Yeah. Thinking. Yeah. I don't know. Um, but we, we talk about that all the time because it's such a useful way to think about, um, problems.

[01:03:25] Zach: Thank you for listening to The Jung and the Restless. You 

[01:03:28] Olivia: can follow us on social media at The Jung and the Restless Pod and submit your dreams for interpretation to The Jung and the Restless Pod at 

[01:03:36] Victor: Gmail, and as we always say, blood is thicker than spillt milk.

Someday we.

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