EPISODE

17. ALLIGATOR SHOW

Zach is jerking off again, but it’s okay cause Olivia and Victor are all for it. The Dream Team tries…...

Zach is jerking off again, but it’s okay cause Olivia and Victor are all for it. The Dream Team tries Bob Hoss' Gestalt Method to interpret Olivia’s dream - Shout out to Bob Hoss, as well as Steve and Jason from The Dreams that Shape Us!

0:00 Intro

10:54 Olivias dream

49:26 Chit Chat

About Dream Bible:

Dream Bible is a free online A to Z dream dictionary dedicated to helping people understand the meaning of their dreams. Unlike other dream interpretation websites or books we extensively research dream symbols by interviewing people about the events occurring in their lives at the time of their dreams.  Inspired by the work of Gillian Holloway Ph.D, we are using a database of over 350,000 dream reports to create the world's most practical dream dictionary based on the waking life experiences of regular people.

Check out The Dreams that Shape Us: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dreamsthatshapeus/episodes/You-Are-Never-Alone-Bob---S2--Ep8-e1peq0b/a-a8n88lv

Bob Hoss' Gestalt Method: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/lifetime-connections/201504/6-magic-questions-help-you-decode-your-dreams

http://www.dreambible.com/

Dream Bible entries used in this episode:

Alligators: https://www.dreambible.com/search.php?q=Alligators

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejungandtherestlesspod/

Check out our website for episode transcripts: https://thejungandtherestlesspodcast.com/

Submit your dreams for interpretation to thejungandtherestlesspod@gmail.com


Episode Transcript

17. ALLIGATOR SHOW

[00:00:00] Zach: Welcome to The Jung and the Restless. I'm Zach. 

[00:00:03] Olivia: I'm Olivia. 

[00:00:04] Victor: And I'm Victor. And this is the podcast where you've been wandering in the darkness for as long as you can remember feeling the heavy breath of some unseen beast. Okay. Yeah, so I had a dream about the podcast the other night. a dream that We, we're doing video not like, not like this, but like, like what I do at work, like really nice cameras and, uh, in person. and we each had our, it was like a nice set and everything, and we each had our own like small couch kind of thing.

[00:00:56] Zach: But I wasn't I wasn't, uh, in the room with you guys in the dream. I was watching the footage of it, you both were like, Totally normal, like acting and dressed like how I know you guys to be in real life. Uh, and I was furiously masturbating.

Fantastic.

not just like, 

[00:01:24] Olivia: Why is it always jerking off

with you? 

[00:01:26] Zach: I know, I know. Well, this is a very meta dream. It's a dream about the podcast. This is how I see the podcast. And it wasn't like, like surreptitiously playing with it. It was like cartoonish. Like what? Like, like wailing on it. And I, and I was completely naked.

[00:01:44] Olivia: it?

[00:01:45] Zach: Yeah.

I was completely 

naked 

[00:01:47] Olivia: like 

[00:01:48] Zach: and just like, uh, like really exaggerated. and you guys were laughing too. Like, like you thought it was a funny bit. You guys really good one. But the funny part about the dream to me upon waking up was the last few seconds of it where I'm like, cause I'm watching it on my laptop. And my honest to God, like feeling in the dream was like, YouTube's not gonna let us put this up. I was like, I was like scrubbing through. It was like, was I doing this the whole time? is 

[00:02:21] Olivia: were you?

[00:02:22] Zach: yeah. I was like,

I was like, this is essentially pornography. I can't, we can't air this anywhere except, you know, porn 

[00:02:32] Olivia: Yeah. Someone would be into it.

[00:02:35] Zach: Yeah. Yeah, some. But it wasn't like, yeah, I was gonna say someone who's into like public humiliation or whatever.

[00:02:41] Olivia: Yeah. 

[00:02:42] Zach: kind of fetish, but that wasn't even the feeling like I wasn't humiliated other than the fact that I had botched a pop podcast episode

[00:02:50] Victor: I feel like you just invented a podcast genre that we could be in the ground floor of.

[00:02:55] Olivia: Yeah. Why haven't we been doing that the whole

[00:02:57] Victor: time?

[00:02:58] Zach: I was trying 

[00:02:59] Olivia: mean, we could all take

turns, 

[00:03:00] Zach: there's some sort of like port manto there with pot and porn that I'm not coming up with

[00:03:06] Olivia: Porn cast.

[00:03:07] Victor: There we go.

[00:03:08] Zach: Oh yeah. Porn cast.

Yeah, I don't know. I feel like maybe it says something. Maybe the dream had something to say. Cuz I had listened to the, uh, edit of the redneck Willy Wonka episode, uh, right before going to bed and having this dream.

And Victor says something in that episode about like, like, I don't like when it means something. You know what I mean? Like the, like the podcast being too vulnerable

[00:03:32] Olivia: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:33] Zach: and that's literally like the most vulnerable you could get when I was doing there. 

 And I have talked several times about jerking off on this podcast.

So it does seem like a direct metaphor in terms of like, oh, this is how, this is how I see it looking when I am, am vulnerable on the pod. But then I, but then I was processing it less of as like a shame thing and more like, uh, like from a producer standpoint, like, this isn't gonna work, 

[00:04:00] Victor: Did it feel really negative? I know that you felt like, oh, we can't use this, but like, I don't know, I feel like it says something positive about how you feel about the podcast.

[00:04:10] Zach: Yeah. I think it's kind of neutral. I think it was revelatory. It showed me something about myself, 

which is that. My concerns, uh, or, or shames or hangs, hangups have less to do with like revealing too much and more to like, more to do with like functionality,

[00:04:30] Victor: Hmm.

[00:04:31] Zach: you know what I mean? Like, in other words, I'm not afraid or ashamed to be, to do something totally humiliating if it, if it works, if it's 

[00:04:39] Victor: Great. , the only problem with masturbating for the full episode was like, oh, we can't put this on YouTube.

[00:04:45] Olivia: see, I, um, I really strongly relate to that and it's, it's because like I'm good with like coming here and being vulnerable, but I get really uncomfortable when we're talking about a dream that I don't think I know what it's about. Um, and I feel like I'm not gonna get there.

And then it feels like it's beyond me, but it's so personal. Like, I'm, I'm out, I'm out of the loop. But it's like deeply personal, do you know what I mean? And public

[00:05:13] Zach: Right. Yeah. That's why I wanted to start with that by telling you that's that dream, because it's, if, if your reaction was like, Ugh, I'd be like, okay, cut that. But if you laughed and then I'm like, it's content. You know?

[00:05:27] Olivia: of course. We were gonna laugh Zach.

[00:05:29] Victor: It's funny to think there's like a listener sitting there while we're stumped by a dream that like a listener knows exactly what your dream means and is like judging you harshly for 

[00:05:39] Olivia: Yeah. if any of you have like, 

figured it out. Yeah. Like my dream in episode 12, which, I just edited so it's kind of front of

mind 

. If you figured out my dream from Redneck Willy Waka or had any insights, please. Because I thought maybe I would have something the next week to tell you guys.

Like I would've figured it out, but

[00:05:59] Zach: You pondered it,

[00:06:00] Olivia: Uh, maybe I didn't ponder it hard enough.

[00:06:03] Victor: we've been having this thing where, uh, we're listening to episodes, a couple, uh, a couple episodes delayed from when we're recording them because we're editing them and then putting them. And I think we're close to catching up to when that started and so soon we're gonna be talking about the episodes where we're talking about different episodes.

[00:06:25] Olivia: right, because what just happened? In the episode that just came out yesterday was we were talking about how we were about to launch our podcast,

[00:06:36] Victor: Yeah. So we're close to this just being like a perpetual echo chamber where we'll just like kind of disappear up into podcast ether.

[00:06:45] Olivia: Since that long dream, that long two-parter dream that we did not figure out.

Since then, I have had kind of a hard time figuring out my dreams 

[00:06:55] Zach: Was that the, that was the one with the owl

[00:06:57] Victor: yeah,

[00:06:58] Olivia: robotic owl and then And the murder and the rugs and the trolley 

cult. 

[00:07:03] Zach: Oh yeah. The trolley called

[00:07:05] Olivia: Yeah, the trolley cult.

[00:07:06] Zach: where the trolley called. That 

sounds kind of cute. 

[00:07:13] Olivia: Yeah.

But yeah, I guess I, I, I've, I've noticed myself having a harder time,

[00:07:19] Zach: do you think something about that dream created a wall that, that you hit with him or?

[00:07:24] Olivia: It, it's funny that you use old that term because I was thinking about that today. Like, it feels like there's a little bit of like a barrier. and what if I'm dreaming about something that. I haven't like, begun to process yet.

And there's like a part of me that's like, protecting myself from having like a therapy breakthrough in this setting. Because like the other thing, the things I normally dream about are things I like, think about all like problems that I've had for a long time, or like things that are very current in like surface level or like the thing that's bothering me right now in my life or whatever.

And just thinking about like, because what we're doing here isn't all that dissimilar from a therapy setting, but it's like very public. And also like, I'm like with my husband and my friend, it's

like, 

[00:08:17] Zach: Neither of 

[00:08:18] Olivia: a little different 

[00:08:19] Zach: HIPAA certified.

[00:08:21] Olivia: right? Like, what if I just started crying right now?

[00:08:23] Zach: 

Well, we'd probably have to edit it out.

depends on how compelling your cry is. 

[00:08:29] Olivia: I should just, I should just get over it, but like, I've felt a little bit of a resistance to like digging into a dream that I feel like, I don't know, um, or I feel like I'm not gonna figure it out. But, um, yeah,

[00:08:42] Zach: 

That just made me think that maybe . My dream about, about our podcast was maybe there was a message, maybe was telling me to, to not jerk off just for content. You know what I mean? Like, I keep coming with just like whatever dream I have and it's like it keeps being a work dream. I think maybe I'm starting to feel repetitive or like, but there's also, there's not more work I could be doing. You know what I mean? I can't invent a dream to bring

[00:09:05] Victor: right? 

Yeah. I think we have to work with what we have, right? And so like whatever's bothering us is gonna be what's coming up in the dreams or whatever we're working through. I think you're j you're just concerned cuz like usually. So far with this podcast, like we have found the thing and it's been a thing that we are already aware of.

And you feel like what you've been dreaming about lately is like something that's like bubbling under the surface of your awareness or whatever. It's the kind of thing where like it's alluding you and if you did figure it out, it might feel big and scary and like you would need to maybe have some alone time.

[00:09:46] Olivia: Yeah. It's like the kind of thing that you're, that you wanna figure out with a therapist, you know?

[00:09:52] Zach: Mm-hmm. ,are you in therapy?

[00:09:54] Olivia: no, but I, you know, I should be. I will be. How about that

[00:09:59] Zach: That might help the pod. 

If you 

[00:10:00] Olivia: Yeah. 

[00:10:02] Zach: If you 

[00:10:02] Victor: could

we get your therapist on the pod you 

think? 

[00:10:06] Olivia: That'd be fun.

[00:10:07] Zach: If 

[00:10:08] Victor: get one that isn't licensed. That's fine.

[00:10:10] Zach: I'll do it then. Um, I think 

[00:10:14] Olivia: We're, we're already doing it.

[00:10:15] Zach: they're not supposed to like even acknowledge you if they see you in public, so I doubt they could come on a podcast.

How cathartic would it be though if it was like a season arc where like over the course of multiple episodes we figure out what the, the one thing is that's brewing with you?

[00:10:32] Olivia: The art, we would've made art and I would've, I don't know. I've done some self-improvement

[00:10:39] Zach: potentially or have been traumatized.

[00:10:41] Olivia: Yeah. You know, it could go either way

. Lately, a recurring theme in my dream has happened three times. Three times. I have had 

[00:11:03] Victor:

[00:11:03] Olivia: girlfriend

[00:11:05] Zach: you mentioned

that. 

[00:11:07] Olivia: Yeah, a girlfriend. And it's never somebody that I know in real life. It's like a girlfriend that I don't recognize.

[00:11:13] Zach: Just a totally made up faith

[00:11:15] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:11:15] Olivia: It's a different girl every time too.

[00:11:17] Zach: hot.

[00:11:18] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:11:18] Zach: are you, did you, uh, are you back on your Adderall?

[00:11:22] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:11:22] Zach: Yeah. That's good.

[00:11:24] Olivia: Life is good now.

[00:11:25] Zach: Did it coincide with you because you, you were texting me, about your girlfriend Dreams and I made a joke about it coinciding with your Adderall shortage,

[00:11:33] Olivia: I don't know. I don't think I've had a girlfriend since then, 

[00:11:36] Zach: that's one of the side effects. They don't tell.

[00:11:39] Victor: Mm-hmm.

 I pulled up girlfriend. Um, to dream of a Girlfriend represents personality traits or qualities we feel as consistently supportive of your success or wellbeing. Something you think that supports you emotionally or regularly helps you cope with life situations and may also reflect something in your life that makes you feel safe or lucky.

A consistently helpful situation, behavior or coping mechanism. Um, alternatively, girlfriends may symbolize our current projections of your partner or their beliefs or goals, your feelings about them and the current state of your relationship. And then to dream of intimacy or feelings of love with a girlfriend that you don't recognize represents a new personality style, habit, or situation that is emotionally helpful to you?

[00:12:27] Olivia: Hmm. So my girlfriend dreams have been positive, I guess, but they haven't

[00:12:34] Victor: they

[00:12:34] Olivia: been,

[00:12:34] Victor: been 

[00:12:35] Zach: They haven't, they were, they were bad dreams.

[00:12:37] Olivia: not necessarily bad, but like they weren't, well, like the one that I'm thinking of right now. the girlfriend was kind of embodying the opposite of, this, uh, dream Bible entry.

[00:12:50] Zach: The opposite of like safety and comfort.

[00:12:53] Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I, I had this dream. 

sometimes when I'm like barely awake and I feel a dream slipping away, I'll just say it out loud so that I can like, keep it hanging around long enough for me to write it down. And it was like a week ago or something Victor got up and I half woke up and just said, alligator show

And uh, yeah, I had a dream about an alligator show, which is exactly what you think it is. It was like a big theater. And I was holding this alligator, I was bringing this alligator down to the stage, because I guess he was the star of the show, . And, um, this alligator pooped in my hand And so I'm like looking for some paper towels to clean this alligator poop off of me while I'm still holding this alligator. And then suddenly I'm holding an alligator in one hand. And then the other hand, I have got the roll of paper towels and I'm like, teetering on a ladder and like I'm about to lose balance.

And I looked down and my girlfriend, who I've never seen before is there. And she's like, she has this look like, I hope you fucking fall. Like she, she looked at me like she wanted me to fall off that ladder. And I looked at her like, help. And she did nothing. And I fell. And I guess then suddenly Victor was playing guitar or on the stage.

Victor shows up in my dreams suddenly at the very end, a lot, um, I, and I fall off the ladder and I knock his guitar down. And my girlfriend goes, oh no. And she rushes up and I think she's gonna like come help me. And she like starts like dotting over the guitar and like gets the g, picks the guitar up and puts the guitar back in the stand.

And I remember thinking like that I had twisted my ankle and I like remember laying there looking down at my ankle and thinking like maybe I'll like pretend it's broken and see if she like cares.

Yeah. She was not of supportive, caring girlfriend.

[00:15:06] Zach: and probably not. Cause one thing in there in that entry was like, it could be a reflection of your real life partner, but Victor was there too. So it kind of feels like it's, that's not what she was.

[00:15:19] Olivia: Yeah. Victor's

always 

[00:15:20] Zach: Victor wouldn't want you to fall off a ladder.

[00:15:23] Olivia: Yeah.

no, I think, I think Victor was helping me. My girlfriend was not helping me.

[00:15:28] Zach: Yeah, so she must be a reflection of something totally outside of like a romantic relationship

[00:15:35] Victor: so I could do the same old thing I always do where I sit here and I rattle off some dream Bible entries and we take it from that, uh, angle. But there's another way.

[00:15:46] Olivia: there is another way

[00:15:48] Victor: There's another, we got, we got a second tool in our two belt tool belts here. Our two belts, two belts

[00:15:55] Zach: or 

[00:15:56] Olivia: two tool belts.

[00:15:58] Victor: Um, so there's this, uh, really cool podcast that, um, is also a dream podcast. And. They're, do you wanna talk about a little bit, Olivia?

[00:16:10] Olivia: yeah. So like we kind of connected with them on Instagram. Um, they're called The Dreams That Shape Us. You should go check them

out. 

[00:16:17] Zach: I listen today, by the way,

[00:16:19] Olivia: Ooh.

Sweet. Okay, cool. Um, yeah, I, I gave Zach some homework. 

 So the episode that, we are referencing, there's a very cool story, that I'm not even gonna begin to explain.

It's kind of dives into the more spookier side of dreams. 

[00:16:36] Zach: a lot of synchronous city.

[00:16:38] Victor: yeah,

[00:16:39] Olivia: very, very interesting. had me on the edge of my seat. but also in this episode, , they introduced a different dream interpretation tool. I actually think would be helpful to me in this place that I've been with my dreams, where I feel a little overwhelmed by all the symbols and like, I'm not really sure, how to make sense of it.

It, and so, um, we thought maybe we would give that a try today.

[00:17:04] Zach: Yeah. Do you remember what the tool's called? I just listened to it today, but it was like a

[00:17:08] Olivia: the just 

[00:17:09] Zach: it's like a German word, right?

[00:17:10] Olivia: just salt, right?

[00:17:12] Zach: Gazpacho?

[00:17:13] Olivia: Yeah. Um.

[00:17:14] Victor: yeah, it's, uhGestalt and developed by Robert Hoss who was the guest on this, uh, podcast that we're talking about, and, um, is very cool. Highly recommend checking it out if you enjoy our podcast. and I. talk a lot on here about how, you know, I'm pretty skeptical about whether there's anything spooky going on with dreams.

I think you could chalk most of it up to like the magic of our psychology and our brain chemistry and the way people's brains work. Right. Um, but this, uh, this episode, this interview with Robert Hoss, uh, definitely, challenges that and, makes you question whether there isn't something, kind of, ethereal and magical going on there.

After all, so highly

recommend it. 

[00:18:01] Zach: but starting from like the, the place that you're coming from, 

[00:18:05] Victor: Yeah. 

[00:18:05] Zach: you know what I mean? Like the, their podcast in general seems to like really, um, take the intellectual. Aspect of this seriously, like the, um, the academic study of dreams. They take that very seriously. And this, um, uh, Robert Haass, right?

[00:18:23] Victor: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:23] Olivia: Hoss.

Yeah. 

[00:18:24] Zach: Yeah. Bob Haass. 

[00:18:25] Olivia: It's funny. There's also a Robert Moss who's like big in the dream

workspace. 

[00:18:30] Zach: But this, but this guy is also that he's an, an academic and, uh, it wrote a book called The, the Science of Dreaming, or I might have a title slightly off, but it's, it's Science Minded.

[00:18:42] Olivia: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:43] Zach: so which is, which is always the most like convincing 

[00:18:47] Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. When you hear like a cop who had like a near death experience, it's like, or like, you know, and somebody who's like maybe more primed to be like hardened to this stuff, like has an experience that shifts their perspective. That's like some of the most

[00:19:03] Zach: Yeah, I live for the like, especially I'm super into like UFOs and stuff, and my favorite accounts are from people who didn't believe before and don't want to talk about it now

[00:19:12] Olivia: Yeah, 

[00:19:13] Victor: the like stoic air force captain that's like, yeah, I like, didn't, didn't say anything for 20 years. And then finally is like, yeah, I saw something. Yeah.

[00:19:24] Zach: Yeah. They're not trying to pull a scam. They're not trying to pull the woo over on anyone's eyes, you know?

[00:19:29] Olivia: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:29] Victor: So, um, let's talk a little bit about Bob ha's gestalt approach to dream analysis. the idea is that you are yourself in the dream or like you're, what you're conscious of, like you're conscious mind, you represent your own, uh, conscious mind. Everything else in the dream is also you, but they all represent, you know, subconscious elements of yourself or things that, uh, you haven't incorporated into yourself.

and so a tool for trying to analyze a dream is to try and, look at the dream from the perspective of some other being or object from in your dream. And doing so can give you an insight into something going on with us subconsciously. Am I getting that right? Am I Yeah.

[00:20:16] Olivia:

think 

[00:20:16] Zach: that's how I understand it.

[00:20:18] Victor: So, uh, I think we've got this girlfriend recurring theme, right?

And in this one we had kind of an evil girlfriend. And maybe a good way to try this out is that you could try to answer these questions for this girlfriend character in your dream. Do you wanna give that a go?

[00:20:36] Olivia: we can do that. It says something about like picking the thing you're most drawn to in the dream?

[00:20:43] Victor: Yes. So you should choose the object person or setting that contains the most energy for you. Whatever stood out the most. Um, could be an object, something frightening, something. Some powerful image.

[00:20:55] Olivia: I mean, my gut says alligator.

[00:20:58] Victor: the alligator.

Okay, 

[00:20:59] Zach: what she woke up 

[00:21:00] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:21:02] Zach: I'll 

get 

[00:21:03] Olivia: I didn't wake up saying my girlfriend's a bitch.

[00:21:07] Zach: Which is funny for half a second. Victor, did you think she was pitching you an idea like she woke up from a dead sleep with the most brilliant idea she's ever had,

[00:21:16] Victor: all. Yeah, I was writing it down. I was all excited. alright. Do you want me to run you through the, the six questions?

[00:21:24] Olivia: Yeah. 

[00:21:24] Victor: okay. Becoming one with the alligator. You're the star of the show.

[00:21:29] Zach: scales from, wait, do alligators have scales?

[00:21:34] Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:36] Zach: from head to toe?

[00:21:38] Olivia: I don't know. No, actually I think they've got skin.

What is scale? Skin are scales on top of skin.

Ooh, I 

[00:21:47] Zach: I, 

I feel like they have some kind of armor that's like, I don't know.

[00:21:51] Olivia: I feel like they're, like lizard.

[00:21:54] Victor: according to Google, the animal's dark skin is armored with small bony scales called scuttles.

[00:22:01] Olivia: Scuttles, okay.

Weird. 

[00:22:05] Victor: You were both right. They have both scales and skin.

[00:22:09] Zach: Scuttles.

[00:22:11] Olivia: I mean, I guess like fish have skin

[00:22:14] Victor: So it's like that. They're like fish. They're basically

fish.

[00:22:18] Zach: Okay, so 

[00:22:19] Olivia: is fish.

[00:22:20] Zach: you, Olivia. You're basically fish.

[00:22:23] Victor: yeah. You're not a crocodile. Don't confuse yourself with a crocodile.

[00:22:28] Olivia: okay?

[00:22:30] Victor: Are you ready?

[00:22:30] Olivia: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:31] Victor: As the alligator, my purpose is,

[00:22:37] Olivia: Uh, the, the words that just came to me were to show you something.

[00:22:43] Victor: That's interesting. Do you wanna keep thinking about that for a minute or you wanna move on?

[00:22:48] Olivia: Well, so

[00:22:49] Victor: yeah.

[00:22:50] Olivia: So in the dream there was an alligator doing something on stage and I was carrying an alligator. It was tiny, it was a small alligator. Um,

[00:23:01] Zach: And that's the one you're identifying with now,

[00:23:03] Olivia: yes.

And it was cute. and I was bringing him down to the stage because he was going on next. the next act. and Victor, I guess you were like

the intermission, 

[00:23:19] Victor: you 

[00:23:19] Olivia: were playing guitar in between alligators,

[00:23:22] Victor: That's a good gig. I would take that

gig. 

[00:23:24] Zach: I hope it was like Louisiana Swamp Rock.

[00:23:27] Olivia: Um, yeah. No, I don't know. He seemed, oh, he, uh, the alligator I guess is a he, and, uh, it seemed innocent. And, um, I had a friendly connection to it. It was kind of, um, I guess should, I should talk from the perspective of the alligator

[00:23:48] Victor: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:49] Olivia: I am friendly. I am cute.

these are my morning affirmations.

[00:23:55] Zach: say, 

are 

[00:23:56] Olivia: I'm the star of the show. 

[00:23:57] Zach: g?

[00:23:58] Victor: Okay, let's figure out your alligator voice really quick. What is it? Is it like, is it high? Is it like a little low? I

[00:24:05] Olivia: sounds exactly like my voice.

[00:24:07] Victor: Ah, all right.

[00:24:08] Olivia: Dang it. I 

[00:24:09] Zach: But with a Cajun accent

[00:24:11] Victor: we go.

[00:24:12] Olivia: fuck me if I have to try and do that. okay. My purpose is to, 

Yeah, I don't know. Show you something. I'm like, I'm there

to show you. Something that's it. That that's the answer.

[00:24:27] Victor: That's all we needed. I just wanted to give you an opportunity to, to think about it a little

bit. We're moving on.

[00:24:33] Zach: to use the bathroom.

[00:24:35] Olivia: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Wait, the alligator?

[00:24:39] Zach: Yeah. Didn't you say the alligator shot in 

your 

[00:24:41] Olivia: Yeah, the alligator shot. And, and I feel like I really accurately imagined alligator shit. I haven't looked it up, but

it 

was, 

[00:24:50] Zach: I don't know what it looks like.

[00:24:52] Victor: All right. Second question for you, little alligator. My goal is,

[00:25:00] Olivia: Uh, what's coming to me is to just get through it or to get out.

[00:25:08] Victor: Okay. When you say to get out, um, is it, does it wanna escape from you?

[00:25:16] Olivia: I think it doesn't feel s i as this alligator don't. Feel safe in this precarious situation.

[00:25:24] Victor: Okay. Okay. It doesn't feel safe and it wants to.

[00:25:29] Zach: that's how I imagine most performing animals is feeling

[00:25:32] Olivia: Yeah.

Yes. Agreed. Also, I wonder if that's why the alligator pooped on me. It was like trying, trying and get me to drop.

[00:25:41] Victor: Well, because you, like, you, you, care a lot about animals and you feel very strongly about like animal rights. Like, you and I are both people that kind of don't, uh, approve of zoo's, right. And, um Right. Or like that kind of animal exploitation and, so may so like for you to be dreaming of like an animal performance has, has a connotation for you that maybe you wouldn't have for 

[00:26:05] Olivia: That's true. 

[00:26:06] Victor: that way.

[00:26:07] Olivia: That's true. And I was facilitating this animal performance,

um, 

[00:26:11] Zach: Olivia, not you, the alligator.

[00:26:13] Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. Me, Olivia.

[00:26:16] Victor: All right. My biggest fear is,

[00:26:19] Olivia: Uh, getting hurt.

[00:26:21] Victor: Okay.

[00:26:23] Zach: in any specific way. Like you're, are you afraid Olivia's gonna drop you or.

[00:26:28] Olivia: yeah, I, I'm, Olivia is like standing with one foot on a ladder, and I'm being held in one hand and like, yeah, she's about to fall. that doesn't feel safe

I feel like I'm in like a precarious situation. I'm afraid of getting, uh, squashed or

[00:26:49] Zach: Remind me, was the latter part of the show or was that like something that had to be done for like technical reasons?

[00:26:56] Olivia: there were, there was no reason for the ladder. It was like the alligator sat and then I was like, where are the paper towels? And then cut to, I'm standing there like falling off of a ladder. And also the ladder is positioned, like, so, you know, on a stage where, like at the side of the stage in like a,

[00:27:14] Victor: yeah, in

[00:27:15] Olivia: most like big like stage settings, there's like stairs up to the stage from the, from the, like the pit or the row in the front.

the ladder was almost like

[00:27:24] Victor: like

[00:27:25] Olivia: on the stairs. 

Yeah, because when I'm looking down at my girlfriend, when I, Olivia am looking down at my girlfriend from teetering on this ladder, she is standing on the floor off of the stage and I am sort of on the stage, but not like fully on the stage. I'm like, where the stairs would be. I kind of think there were stairs there too though.

Like the, it's like the ladder is on the stairs.

[00:27:50] Zach: It's very precarious.

[00:27:51] Olivia: Yeah,

And I don't have a free hand to grab onto the ladder. That was what I felt. I felt like I couldn't drop either of the things in my hands.

[00:28:02] Zach: one's a 

[00:28:02] Olivia: I mean, 

[00:28:03] Zach: animal. The other's paper towels. It was a terrible place to put the paper towels too. Whoever did that.

[00:28:11] Olivia: I don't think they even put them up on the ladder. Like , I think I grabbed the paper towels from offstage and then just suddenly I was falling off of a ladder.

[00:28:19] Victor: I would say the most consistent theme that shows up in your dreams over and over again is you protecting animals.

[00:28:29] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:28:30] Victor: usually our dogs, but not always our dogs. Yeah. You are often in the position of protecting an animal. You are aware that someone else is being irresponsible, and you have to step in and be the responsible person to protect an animal.

That is such a strong theme in your dreams. And so I find it very interesting that in this dream you are taking on the role of the irresponsible person that is endangering an, an innocent, cute little animal.

[00:28:59] Olivia: that's true. And also, I remember when I fell, I like intentionally fell to protect the alligator and I hurt myself. I fell and like landed in a way that kept the alligator like in my hand and didn't let him hit the floor. Um, and I got hurt, but the alligator was okay.

[00:29:21] Victor: um, the, not to go like off script too much, but like what do you think the alligator's feeling was 

after the fall and your self-sacrifice or whatever? Did that shift things for the alligator?

[00:29:34] Olivia: No.

[00:29:35] Victor: no. Still scared, still wanting to get away from you and get away from the situation.

[00:29:41] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:29:42] Victor: Okay. Okay. All right. Question four, I.

[00:29:49] Olivia: The swamp.

[00:29:54] Victor: the swamp. 

All 

[00:29:55] Olivia: wait. wait. Let 

[00:29:57] Victor: I'm writing it down.

[00:29:59] Olivia: No, but really, like, I don't know. Um, 

[00:30:02] Victor: it's not a bad answer if that's what feels right.

[00:30:06] Olivia: well I think that I don't love any of what's going on here. 

[00:30:12] Victor: I'd 

[00:30:13] Olivia: be in the swamp.

[00:30:14] Zach: That makes

sense. 

[00:30:16] Victor: let's try and stay like, um, proactive. Yeah, because the next question is what? Yeah, but so like, what do you love? What do you want? 

[00:30:25] Zach: I I imagine this is hard to do because if I'm putting myself in your shoes, like trying to do this exercise, I think, I feel like my impulse would be to be like, I don't know what it wants. It's an alligator. 

[00:30:36] Olivia: yeah, 

[00:30:37] Zach: it is you though. It's not a real alligator. It's, and it lives in your head.

[00:30:41] Olivia: Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm just gonna give myself the

space to like do this and not worry about, like,

[00:30:49] Zach: Yeah. He did refer to it as a, as a role playing exercise. So to a certain like degree you are, you know, I don't wanna say making stuff up, but like acting in order to get into like a role to like tap into.

[00:31:02] Victor: mm-hmm.

[00:31:03] Olivia: I should stop flipping then. I should, cuz I feel like we've. I keep going back to like, what Olivia, so I should stay as the alligator while I'm talking about the stream.

[00:31:15] Victor: Excellent.

[00:31:15] Olivia: so my purpose is to show you something. My goal is to get through it or to get out my fear is getting hurt

[00:31:24] Victor: and you love,

[00:31:26] Olivia: and I love like, I wanna say,

[00:31:30] Victor: like,

[00:31:30] Olivia: uh, like independence.

[00:31:33] Victor: And the next question is, I hate

 I

[00:31:37] Olivia: Hate being here. I don't wanna be here.

[00:31:42] Zach: 

Your answer for I hate is like this whole thing that's happening, like having to be next, being forced to perform.

[00:31:51] Olivia: Correct.

[00:31:51] Victor: Last question I desire slash wish.

[00:31:55] Olivia: To leave

[00:31:58] Victor: Okay.

[00:31:59] Zach: Back to the swamp.

[00:32:02] Victor: Okay, so like, let's, let's tackle the dream from this angle. Why do you think you're doing this? Like, why do you think you're, you're doing the show. You, you, uh, Olivia.

[00:32:15] Olivia: Okay. Me, Olivia.

[00:32:17] Victor: yeah. Why are you doing this? Why are, why are you participating this in this and subjecting this animal to this?

[00:32:23] Olivia: Hmm. Yeah, cuz I remember having like,

[00:32:27] Victor: flipping 

[00:32:28] Olivia: about

it in the dream.

[00:32:30] Victor: Okay.

[00:32:31] Olivia: it why I, I think it seems like a careless thing. Like it seems like I shouldn't be doing it, you know? Like I ended up in this situation that

[00:32:43] Victor: it

[00:32:43] Olivia: is against my morals.

[00:32:45] Victor: And

[00:32:46] Olivia: if I had put more thought into it or effort or something or, or just like taken the time to use my brain, I wouldn't be doing this. That's what it feels like.

[00:32:58] Victor: And so is anyone in the dream taking on the role that you usually take on in kind of stepping in and trying to protect the animals? Nobody's there to do that.

[00:33:10] Olivia: I don't think

so. 

[00:33:11] Victor: So you said, uh, the alligator was there to show you something. Do you, do you feel like you ever figured out what that was? 

[00:33:20] Olivia: Um,

I feel like the alligator maybe represents something innocent getting hurt or like I've caused a problem that like is hurting something innocent.

I don't know why it wouldn't be like a puppy show then

[00:33:36] Zach: it, it was an interesting, contrast there, how the first one was, I'm here to show you some, like your purpose seemed to be to show Olivia something, but then the rest of the questions were about getting out of there and like escaping and. Not wanting to be there.

like they seem contrary to the purpose, the rest of the drives.

[00:33:57] Victor: yeah, that's a very good point, right? Because everything that you're describing about the alligator has no, no desire to be there. But the its purpose is to show you something.

[00:34:11] Olivia: Well, I think that that's what it's trying to show me, I guess.

[00:34:14] Victor: That it doesn't want to be there.

[00:34:15] Olivia: Yeah, that it's like, it didn't have a choice and it was in a situation that it didn't wanna be in. 

[00:34:22] Victor: and

[00:34:23] Olivia: that is not its fault. And it is partially, I'm partially responsible for it.

[00:34:28] Victor: So you were doing something wrong and the purpose of the alligator was to show you that you were harming an innocent thing with your carelessness.

[00:34:37] Olivia: That's what it felt like.

[00:34:39] Victor: so I, I can read the alligator entry, um, but before I do, I honestly like, um, I think that, um, again, that there's a very strong theme in your dreams. You stepping in and being the protector when there's incompetence from other people. And, um, I think we have talked a little bit about like where that maybe comes from

[00:35:07] Olivia: Mm. Mm-hmm.

[00:35:08] Victor: and that's something that you've been thinking about lately.

And so I do find it interesting that you had a dream where you took on the role of the bumbling incompetent person that is, putting an innocent in danger or not taking care of an innocent, um, just out of, because you're not, not,

paying 

[00:35:29] Zach: But, means well too, it's not like flagrant, like you did sacrifice yourself falling off the ladder, but like shouldn't have been up there in the first place.

[00:35:38] Olivia: Oh, I think,

[00:35:39] Victor: that resonate?

[00:35:40] Olivia: I think I know what this dream's about.

[00:35:42] Victor: about.

[00:35:43] Olivia: Okay, well let's,

um,

[00:35:44] Zach: you wanna tell us? 

Okay. 

[00:35:46] Olivia: Well, Okay. I 

[00:35:48] Zach: I was gonna say, do you wanna tell us and we'll see if the. Dream Bible supports it or.

[00:35:53] Olivia: sure,

sure, sure. Let's see. Okay, so this is the earliest recurring like dream theme for me. , like I remember my earliest dreams, where there are adults that don't know what they're doing nobody's there, like

[00:36:12] Victor: watching

[00:36:12] Olivia: watching me or like, I'm like standing in the middle of the street or like somebody forgot me at the grocery store , or people are just, um, just completely mishandling a situation and like causing more harm.

And like I'm standing there like knowing what they should be doing and like feeling like it's a really simple thing that's not being handled by the people who are supposed to handle it. that is probably the most recurring theme in my dreams. It still is a thing in my dreams. 

Um, and as you and the listeners know, Victor and I have talked about having kids and like, have gone back and forth about that. And something that I've been thinking about a lot lately is like how any parent like doesn't know the ways in which they're gonna like fuck up their kid. Like every parent's gonna make like mistakes, right?

Like it's part of being a parent, you're not gonna be perfect. but like everybody has their blind spots, right? And like, I just wonder like as much as I would not want to like pass that same experience onto a kid, like how much control I have over that. If it's a thing in me that is like unhealed or if my fear creating that, a similar problem for our kids would have me overcorrect in a way that would like harm them in a different way, you know?

[00:37:38] Victor: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. And so I think maybe you asked why an alligator and why not a puppy, right? Because you're always looking out for dogs and your dreams and it's like, it wasn't going to be a dog because it was going to be something that you wouldn't think to take care of or protect or have that like nurturing instinct for, right?

It was gonna be the thing that didn't, that didn't, um, trigger that for you. But then once you tried to empathize with that thing you saw. On the inside. It's a puppy. Yeah,

[00:38:10] Olivia: it did have like puppy energy about it.

[00:38:13] Victor: hmm,

[00:38:13] Zach: And dog shows are a thing, you know what I mean? There's, there's something, there's something about an alligator where it's like way out of place in this

environment. 

[00:38:22] Olivia: because it wasn't like the reptile guy, like it was like, America's got talent for alligators.

[00:38:29] Zach: Yeah, which they do seem like, you know, solitary kinda leave me the fuck alone kind of creatures.

[00:38:36] Victor: But

[00:38:37] Olivia: Victor, I think that's what this dream is about. And me being in the position of the, the person in charge who's just like fumbling it and like this, I'm holding this alligator that has no choice but to be in my hand and I'm falling off a ladder because for some reason I tried to clean up the poop.

By standing on a ladder for no reason. , it's like that, that is the alligator is me, is the position I'm usually in, in those dreams so that makes sense. That like, if that's me thinking about that dynamic from the perspective of a parent, who like, cuz I, it's not like I, I didn't feel like I could do anything any differently in that situation.

I had no, like I don't know, like I didn't have any choice but to like

[00:39:24] Zach: You know what you, 

[00:39:25] Olivia: the way I was operating.

[00:39:27] Zach: what you're saying about how everyone has blind spots and. I think most people go into having kids with the intention of like not doing whatever their parents did wrong and then inadvertently creating a third brand new kind of fucked up. 

[00:39:42] Victor: right? Yeah. 

[00:39:43] Olivia: and that's, 

[00:39:44] Zach: that 

[00:39:44] Olivia: what I was saying.

yeah, 

[00:39:45] Zach: yeah, that tracks with the paper towels.

Cuz you were trying to fix a thing and like you were so fixated on these paper towels, you're like, this is the solution to the problem that's happening. That like, you should have dropped the paper towels when you're on the ladder, but you were fixated on that as the solution 

[00:40:01] Olivia: mm. 

[00:40:01] Zach: and it created a, uh, another problem.

[00:40:05] Victor: and I think that the, the theme in your dreams, um, where you are the savior, uh, trying, trying to step in and, um, And prevent other people's incompetence from causing harm that does dehumanize the, the bumbling people in your dreams a little bit. Right? Or it like paints them as these like idiot caricatures, right?

Yeah. And so in this dream, you're actually extending empathy to that role, right? Yeah. You are experiencing what it is to be the bumbling, incompetent person that you know, despite your best intentions, does harm.

[00:40:43] Olivia: that's correct.

[00:40:44] Victor: Yeah.

[00:40:44] Olivia: So who's the girlfriend?

[00:40:46] Victor: It's interesting. Okay. I feel like if this was your normal dream, you probably would've been the girlfriend, right? You would've been running up trying to prevent the problem from that role, I imagine,

[00:41:00] Olivia: But she, she didn't,

[00:41:02] Victor: right? She didn't.

[00:41:03] Zach: Yeah, she wanted to see you fall, is what you.

[00:41:06] Olivia: Yeah. And then she was worried about the guitar.

[00:41:09] Victor: so again, because everything in your dream represents an aspect of yourself, if maybe, um, you're taking on the role of somebody that you're maybe not feeling positively about, right then maybe the girlfriend here that is not being kind to you, maybe that represents a part of yourself that's maybe not extending kindness and empathy to other people when you see that dynamic play out.

[00:41:40] Olivia: Yeah, I think that there's a part of me that's like, irritated because it feels like in certain situations to me, Looking back and, and speaking about like, just like real situations. There's times where I feel like I, there was an ob um, a very obvious better choice as the adult in charge, you know? Um, and I, yeah, I, that's like frustrating.

There's like a frustration about these dreams and there's a frustration about that retrospective, view on, on those situations. And, at the same time, you're totally correct that it's like at no point did anybody think to themself I'm just not going to do it this way.

I'm gonna do it this other way even though like that's like harmful. Everybody's always operating to the best of their ability. 

[00:42:46] Zach: So do you think. Because like kids is an idea that you have been kicking around. So there, there's an internal debate going on there with you. Do you think maybe the girlfriend represents the voices in that internal debate that are like vehemently anti anti kid because she's standing there at the foot of the ladder watching you fuck up the situation.

Like, like, yeah, of course. Like you knew this was gonna happen. You're of course you're gonna fuck it up. You're gonna break your neck and like kill the alligator and then when you do fall you knock the guitar out of Victor's hands. So I think like Victor's probably just Victor in this dream and like maybe there's part of vi's word like, oh, kid in the mix will, like, it'll, it'll ruin both of our dreams. You know, music being a big thing for Victor and, and this girlfriend running over and immediately fixing that being,

[00:43:41] Victor: Hmm,

[00:43:42] Olivia: Zach, you always have these like perspectives that I like never would've thought of.

Um, 

[00:43:46] Zach: also you keep, you've, she's a girlfriend, not a wife. So there's something kind of, um, regressive about that

[00:43:53] Victor: yeah. 

[00:43:54] Olivia: Yeah, that's true. I also like, it's funny cuz in all of these dreams where I've had a girlfriend, I also still have my husband.

[00:44:00] Zach: swingers

[00:44:02] Olivia: Yeah. . 

No, you're not a part of it. Victor

[00:44:06] Victor: Mm-hmm. , I'm not invited.

[00:44:07] Olivia: No. Uh,

yeah, 

[00:44:10] Zach: the alligator show

[00:44:11] Victor: that's right.

[00:44:12] Olivia: I think, I think actually I think it does resonate that the girlfriend is the part of me that is like bitter towards the 

bumbling parental figure. which is me, uh, in the stream,

[00:44:29] Victor: right?

[00:44:29] Olivia: and the alligator is the kid

[00:44:32] Victor: Right. So there's, you were taken on the role of like bumbling authority figure, and then girlfriend is the resentment you feel towards that.

Mm-hmm. ? yeah.

[00:44:47] Zach: So in past 

[00:44:47] Victor: What am I, 

[00:44:48] Zach: would've, you're you

[00:44:50] Victor: And you're, you,

[00:44:51] Olivia: you, something that's also interesting. I'm just thinking about Shelby's dream with the ladders and the stairs. and how I had a ladder on the

[00:45:00] Victor: Yeah.

[00:45:01] Zach: Oh yeah.

[00:45:01] Victor: Feels like there's something there.

[00:45:03] Olivia: What was it? Like stairs were like, slow, incremental progress and

[00:45:07] Zach: Ladders are 

like shortcuts, 

[00:45:09] Olivia: yeah.

Or like very rapid.

[00:45:12] Victor: like needing to change who you are or, yeah.

[00:45:14] Olivia: Yeah. 

[00:45:15] Zach: yeah. So the, you know, practically in real life it makes sense that putting a ladder on stairs would be precarious, but also like trying to place a, a, a rapid period of, of development within an incremental process that also you have now you have two things going on, competing for the same goal.

[00:45:36] Victor: right? 

Yeah. It's like you're getting in the way of the incremental proc progress by putting the big rapid progress on top of it.

[00:45:44] Olivia: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:45] Victor: It's kind of an interesting metaphor actually. I like that.

[00:45:48] Olivia: You should write about it,

[00:45:50] Victor: Um, okay, 

[00:45:52] Zach: You're lashing out. Olivia 

[00:45:53] Victor: Yeah. She's triggered. All right. To dream of an alligator represents a situation in your life that you feel is dangerous, feeling that a problem has rocked your sense of balance or safety, feeling shaking, uh, feeling shaken by something or struggling to contain a problem.

An alligator may also reflect a powerful fear you have. An alligator may be a sign that you need to put more effort into confronting your fears or speak to someone about your problems.

[00:46:25] Olivia: So, okay. Right where we started, Olivia needs to go back to therapy.

[00:46:31] Victor: an alligator may reflect the danger you feel from a job layoff argument or interpersonal problem.

That may also reflect the threat of loss or feeling that a crisis may be at hand negatively. An alligator may reflect your threats of serious consequences to other people if they don't behave or conform. Threatening people with God's revenge if they don't be more careful with their immoral behavior.

threatening other people with a serious warning or serious loss.

[00:46:58] Olivia: bringing God

into this. 

[00:46:59] Victor: this. Yeah. Geez. And then there's, if you eat an alligator, and if the alligator is blue, was it blue? The little guy?

[00:47:06] Olivia: like, he was like yellow.

[00:47:08] Victor: Well, little yellow guy

[00:47:10] Olivia: He was a yellow guy.

[00:47:11] Zach: That 

[00:47:12] Victor: yellow. 

[00:47:12] Olivia: He is a Yellow balled alligator. I have yellow 

comes up in my dreams a lot too. Remember I had the yellow fish in my weeping angels dream. I had a yellow bikini in the redneck Willy Wonka episode

[00:47:25] Victor: It looks like it's, it's self-reflection Color yellow in a dream represents noticing something happening or noticing yourself thinking in a certain way. Yellow animals, objects or clothing all reflect beliefs, feelings, or situations in your life that you were aware of yourself having.

So self-awareness, self-reflection is yellow.

[00:47:46] Olivia: Cool. Well that all fucking checks

[00:47:49] Victor: Mm-hmm.

[00:47:49] Zach: So, yeah. Yeah, a lot of that stuff with the alligator tracks with like the idea of having kids, which we, we've stumbled across a few of your dreams that, uh, you thought had to do with like, trepidation about having kids. Um, and this is that. But I think maybe what we learned from this new tool is that it's more specifically like maybe the message, and correct me if I'm wrong, obviously it's your dream, but maybe the message is like you should, sort out these past issues with, uh, authority figures before you become one.

[00:48:25] Olivia: Yeah. No, and that's literally, I've said that I, we've talked about this a lot, in our going back and forth about kids is like, we both are, should go to therapy before we do that because your kids are gonna trigger the fuck out of you. Like if anything's gonna trigger you, it's gonna be your kids.

You should have your shit sorted out or be just like, honestly just caught perpetually working on it. Right? Like, I think that, that's really important

This is the thing that I think would come up the most for me.

and like, this is the thing I might like overcorrect and like end up mishandling it in in a different way because I'm worried about this.

So like, I need to work through that a little more. yeah. I feel solid about that interpretation of that dream.

[00:49:19] Zach: Hell yeah. Thank you, Bob Haas.

[00:49:21] Olivia: Thank you, Bob.

end alligator show

[00:49:23] Victor: I will say this is actually, this is the second time we've tried this, and it's two for two. Um, because

 Me and Olivia were at breakfast talking about this episode

[00:50:03] Olivia: we did it with a dream that we did do on the pod.

yeah. So you can talk 

[00:50:07] Victor: it's a little follow up, part two to, um, a recent episode that we recorded.

So Zach, do you remember the dream that I had where there was like, um, kind of a ghostly version of myself floating around the house and I ended up attacking it?

Do 

[00:50:20] Zach: Yeah, yeah, 

[00:50:21] Olivia: the Nly

[00:50:22] Victor: Yeah. It was like I was strangling the

thing and it 

[00:50:24] Zach: And it was 

deflating. 

[00:50:26] Victor: and deflating. Yeah. And then when I let go, it would start to reinflate.

I don't think we landed on a solid conclusion when we talked about that dream, um, in that episode, or at least I didn't come away from it. I don't think feeling like we had fully cracked

it. 

[00:50:42] Zach: Yeah. We came up with some interesting theories, if I remember correctly, but nothing where you went like, oh, that's it.

[00:50:47] Victor: Yeah, so we, we tried this, uh, process just out at breakfast just to give it a go. Um, cuz that dream was still on my mind and we had just been talking about this and, um, I felt like I, I had a real insight and I feel like I better understand what that dream

means 

[00:51:06] Zach: So did you take the perspective of the other version of you?

[00:51:10] Victor: I did. Yeah. so just to reiterate for the listeners, I was like, I was in the kitchen, I was cooking and this thing just kind of floats in and like snags a little snack off of the stovetop while I'm eating or like while I'm cooking and then just kind of floats back off into the living room.

And I am viscerally freaked out by this thing. And uh, I tell Olivia, she's like, yeah, I see it too. And um, I end up finding it again and attacking it and I'm like choking it and you know, it's deflating as I'm joking. It's very creepy.

And I'm like, uh, to my core, kind of just like creeped out by this thing. Like, I don't necessarily feel like it's a threat to me, but it just like disturbs me. And, um, like I, I attack it and then I feel like I get stuck in this kind of stalemate where as soon as I let it go, it just kind of starts coming back.

Um, but then when I'm attacking it or like strangling it or holding it or whatever, I'm just stuck with a thing. And, um, it ended with me feeling like I was kind of stuck in this place. Oh, yeah. Except then I yelled to Olivia, oh, YouTube, we're gonna put it on YouTube. Um, which I think is like my, my conscious mind being like, what do I do if I have proof of a ghost?

Right. Um, I'm like, I'm gonna monetize it, of course. And talk about it on the podcast. No, uh, . But, um, so we are sitting in at breakfast and I started this exercise and Where, where I got with it, I won't go through the whole exercise, but I realized the thing to me when I tried to, um, see things from its perspective was just, um, very at peace and was content and was simply, uh, observing whatever interested it with, um, a like a real sense of calm and peace.

It needed nothing. It wanted nothing. It just was, 

[00:53:05] Zach: a little 

[00:53:05] Victor: and that just a little snack, right? That's all it wanted. And that made a lot of sense to me because like something I've been dealing with is, like, I, we've talked about it recently. I have like a real, um, productivity hangup. I have like a real preoccupation with productivity and I've been feeling this like, need in me.

to be able to just like relax or like just engage with a project that is nothing. Do something that does not matter. You know, enjoy drawing for drawing's sake or doing a thing that's just, just for me, you know, something that isn't about getting really good at it and showing it to other people, or monetizing it or doing whatever, nothing.

Something that's not productive and like I have this like yearning for that, but I can't do it every time I try and do it, it just like, it repels me. It's like I feel like I can't, I can't engage with something unless it feels like it's connected to product productivity in 

some way. 

[00:54:07] Zach: you're literally creeped out by it and you try to murder it.

[00:54:10] Victor: I did. Yeah. I'm like so repulsed at the idea of just relaxing, of just like letting go of my need to like, um, build something you.

Um, that I had to try and kill it in this dream. It was like a spider. I just like, felt like I just like instinctually had to destroy this thing. So, I don't know. I felt, I felt, I felt like that really clicked for me and was like, oh yeah, this is about the part of me that I have not internalized, that I haven't incorporated into my conscious self that is able to just be and I can't do it.

Um, so that's, I need to go to therapy.

[00:54:48] Zach: Not me though, cuz I'm not having kids. 

Marker

[00:54:53] Olivia: Therapy's good. I think everyone should.

[00:54:57] Zach: I love doing it actually, like just whether or not, I think everybody can benefit from it. Some people really need it. Um, whether or not I'm one of those people I like going, so 

[00:55:11] Olivia: Yeah. No, I think it's just, I think it's a beneficial thing. Like I think that it is useful in the way that like, it's beneficial in the way that like, I don't know, going to the dentist is

[00:55:25] Zach: I was just 

gonna, I was gonna compare it to getting, getting a haircut.

[00:55:28] Victor: Yeah.

[00:55:29] Zach: Like, when I leave, I, even if it's a shitty haircut, I always leave feeling good. Like, uh, I did something today. Like I feel fresh. That's how, that's how it feels. But in inside the head,

[00:55:41] Olivia: Mm-hmm.

[00:55:42] Zach: when I leave therapy,

I also just, I'm, you know, you guys probably relate to this, you know, an introvert and like, like I was at a party the other day and like every conversation that I found myself in, I, I was like, as to myself as I was talking, I was thinking, oh my God, who cares? Like, I just, I would much rather be in a room alone with one person, like getting into it than 

[00:56:10] Victor: Yeah.

[00:56:11] Zach: than, uh, like that's more fun to me than.

[00:56:15] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:56:16] Zach: Than talking ab I was actually, I was talking about this podcast to that person and I was like, Ugh, I hate myself for talking about my own podcast right now, even though I'm being prompted by someone who's interested. 

[00:56:31] Olivia: Yeah, we talked about this we talked about how like creating anything is inherently like, kind of embarrassing and

like

har it's like kind of mortifying to talk about.

[00:56:43] Zach: Yeah. That's the title of a. there's a documentary about an artist called, uh, beauty is Embarrassing. I think that's what, hold on, let me look this up. Yeah. Beauty is embarrassing about, uh, what's his name, who did all the um, Wayne White. Anyway, highly recommend

[00:57:09] Olivia: I feel like this bobas. The Bob Ha method, the, this gestalt, um, approach is useful for some of those dreams that are like long-winded and like all over the place.

like If you can crack one piece, sometimes everything just falls into place and like snowball

effect. 

[00:57:29] Zach: it's more surgical.

I, I feel like, uh, the dream Bible approach is almost brute force by comparison. We're, we're listening. Like everything that every symbol could possibly be mean, and then hopefully you like pick it out of a lineup.

this is more like, what is the biggest thing?

Let's analyze that internally.

[00:57:53] Victor: You told me this dream, um, just like hour before we record. And, um, I don't think we would've gotten there like, uh, using the Dream Bible method alone because there, there were so many things going on in the dream. But I don't think we were gonna get through to this because I don't think that we would've naturally come across extending that, like, that empathy to the, the little baby alligator. I just don't think we were gonna get there unless we engaged that, you know?

Yeah. And that is what kind of burst the whole thing open.

[00:58:28] Olivia: the like personal element, right? I think we've had a lot of success with Dream Bible and, and doing it that way. I think that this is gonna be useful for certain situations. I think it's gonna be good cuz I did, I've thought about the alligator dream a little bit and like I wasn't getting anywhere, like, 

[00:58:43] Zach: Yeah, I think we should just collect tools and then

[00:58:46] Victor: yeah,

[00:58:46] Zach: we can just, any given dream, we can start with whatever approach seems like the best, and if we get stuck, apply a different one,

[00:58:55] Victor: yeah, 

yeah.

[00:58:57] Zach: and then eventually we will. Masters. 

Marker

[00:59:08] Victor: We had a little bit of a heads up of like, uh, that there was going to be a dream and you weren't sure about it. I was like, that's probably like a threesome with the three of us

[00:59:18] Olivia: He was like, it's probably just all of us fucking

And 

[00:59:21] Zach: it 

was adjacent.

[00:59:22] Victor: kind of was,

[00:59:23] Zach: it was adjacent to that.

[00:59:25] Olivia: so funny.

[00:59:26] Zach: Almost weirder. 

[00:59:27] Olivia: The Freud and the freaky.

[00:59:28] Zach: Maybe I would feel better about that segment if I took the Bob Haas approach to figuring 

out 

[00:59:33] Olivia: we could do it

[00:59:34] Victor: What did my dick symbolize in this dream?

[00:59:38] Zach: I'd have to take on like one of you guys.

[00:59:41] Victor: Oh yeah. Well, what had the most energy for you in that dream? 

[00:59:44] Olivia: I

feel like it was

[00:59:46] Victor: what felt like the, the focal point of the dream

What 

[00:59:51] Zach: Yeah. 

[00:59:52] Victor: does my dream dick fear?

 Thank you for listening to The Jung and the Restless. You can follow us on social media at The Jung and the Restless Pod and submit your dreams for interpretation to The Jung and the Restless Pod at Gmail. And as we always say, we got nothing. We got nothing done, done, but at least we had a terrible time.

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